Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

[DesertSteel]

Honestly I can't really figure out what you mean. It seems you are saying that drama is a product of people's perception and that perception is often wrong. Then the drama is intensified by the media and players feed into it. So a maybe not real thing is shouted from the rooftops by some bloggers and Twitters and now actual people doing actual jobs in the NFL should do something?

And what are the consequences? Like some people think less of AB than they did 36 hours ago?

If I have 50 twitter followers and make an inflammatory post is it more/less/equally dramatic if I have 2 million followers? Your answer seems to be the same.

If if a man cheats on his girlfriend with no on watching, is it more/less/equally dramatic if he does so with the paparazzi taking pictures? Again, your answer seems to be the same.

Right now, the spotlight is on the Steelers. AB, above all others knows that. What does he do? Threaten to beat up a reporter, tweet about being traded and then plays hooky. Followed up by Tomlin saying he's earned the right to be where he is.

Much of of what we do in life is measured by the fish bowl we live in. I'm gathering that you don't much buy into anything I'm saying. Your analytical mind doesn't work that way. But the perception that this is a circus is gaining momentum. As a business owner, this can't make the Rooney's happy.

[GBMelBlount]

Good lord. I give up. Every time something is posted in black and white to refute something, the goalposts get moved.

...and it took you how many years of running a steelers board to figure this out?

[Mojouw]

If I have 50 twitter followers and make an inflammatory post is it more/less/equally dramatic if I have 2 million followers? Your answer seems to be the same.

If if a man cheats on his girlfriend with no on watching, is it more/less/equally dramatic if he does so with the paparazzi taking pictures? Again, your answer seems to be the same.

Right now, the spotlight is on the Steelers. AB, above all others knows that. What does he do? Threaten to beat up a reporter, tweet about being traded and then plays hooky. Followed up by Tomlin saying he's earned the right to be where he is.

Much of of what we do in life is measured by the fish bowl we live in. I'm gathering that you don't much buy into anything I'm saying. Your analytical mind doesn't work that way. But the perception that this is a circus is gaining momentum. As a business owner, this can't make the Rooney's happy.

I mean those are all the same. None of them have very much to do with winning football games. Most of it is nonsense ginned up by commentators so they have something to comment on.

Everyone is assuming it must be bad that AB was away today because Tomlin addressed it. Well he was asked and then answered in a single sentence that was essentially "mind your business idiots" but polite like. Then it hit the echo chamber of the internet and TWO sentences became 2 dozen totally speculative stories.

Now I'm supposed to buy this is somehow important and somehow impacts wins and loses? How? Last I checked AB wasn't wearing a headset dialing up crappy coverages.

But because people react strongly and emotionally to these types of stories we've allowed ourselves to be convinced they're important. Just because it makes you feel the feelings doesn't mean it matters.

I mean I think all this stuff is beyond moronic and these guys need to learn how to shut up. But it also appears to have nothing to do with Sundays.


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[teegre]

Remember when Aaron Hernandez murdered that guy?

[Mojouw]

Remember when Aaron Hernandez murdered that guy?

Wasn't that after Rae Carruth took a hit out on his wife?

[43Hitman]

All I gotta say is that I’ve seen Tomlin’s Steelers make many a halftime adjustment against the Ravens often to my dismay. I do think the Steelers often play down to a perceived inferior opponent, whereas said inferior opponent often brings their A game.

You better be careful being the voice of reason around here, it'll bring out the mob.






Seriously though, thanks for your insights Crow, they are much appreciated. A little levity is always nice.

[teegre]

Wasn't that after Rae Carruth took a hit out on his wife?

Yeah... but, that was in the NFC.

[GBMelBlount]

I feel bad for Cool shades, Ben, AB, Butler, and even shitstick Bell.

We are so quick to judge. However, at the end of the day, we are all flawed people, doing the best we can.

That being said, I thoroughly enjoy the posts, banter and arguments that we have as friends.

[teegre]

I feel bad for Cool shades, Ben, AB, Butler, and even shitstick Bell.

They are all doing the best they can, like every one of us.

We are so quick to be opinionated and judgemental (which is admittedly what I often come here to be), but at the end of the day, they are flawed people like you and I, trying to find their way, on and off the field.

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[GBMelBlount]

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[teegre]

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[GBMelBlount]

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[Renegade]

All I gotta say is that I’ve seen Tomlin’s Steelers make many a halftime adjustment against the Ravens often to my dismay. I do think the Steelers often play down to a perceived inferior opponent, whereas said inferior opponent often brings their A game.

Amen.

[DesertSteel]

Yeah... but, that was in the NFC.

Exactly.

[DesertSteel]

I believe, contrary to some’s beliefs, that professional athletes can be distracted, motivated, demotivated, selfish and many other conditions that impact outcomes of games. Anything that lessens focus fosters a competitive disadvantage. A culture that enables these conditions can contribute to a losing team.

[EzraTank]

Sure it was.



Yep. Which they lost. If you're not first, you're last.

LOL. So you're going to say the Patriots winning two out of the last four Superbowls and getting to three of them proves they are just a F'd up as the Steelers because some sports writers say they "think" Brady and Belechick aren't getting along.

Please.

I don't care what the issues were with Ben and Todd Haley. Their offense was incredible last year and hung 42 points on a very very good Jags defense (but somehow still lost @ home). If anything Tomlin and ownership should have told Ben to suck it up and deal with Haley he's your coach. But nope unlike New England they coddle Ben and keep the Defensive Coordinator that is f'n clueless.

The glaring difference between these organizations is amazing. Could you imagine giving Belechick the talent the Steelers have had since Cowher left?

[lipps83]

I believe, contrary to some’s beliefs, that professional athletes can be distracted, motivated, demotivated, selfish and many other conditions that impact outcomes of games. Anything that lessens focus fosters a competitive disadvantage. A culture that enables these conditions can contribute to a losing team.

You are absolutely right. The problem is not on them then, but rather on us to recognize that they are human beings first and football players second. The same things that drive (motivate/demotivate) you at your own job drive them as well. The only difference between you and them is what your 'job' is.

It is important to be able to forgive, but the idea of forgiveness is sometimes lost in our own frustrations and we forget that they are human beings too, just like us. We see them on the big screen being made larger than life by the media and other sources, so in a way they are larger than life in our imagination, but not in reality.

They need forgiveness and understanding at times too, just like everybody else does.

[Mojouw]

LOL. So you're going to say the Patriots winning two out of the last four Superbowls and getting to three of them proves they are just a F'd up as the Steelers because some sports writers say they "think" Brady and Belechick aren't getting along.

Please.

This kinda proves the point some are trying to make around here. Most folks that are foaming at the mouth about drama and culture really couldn't give a crap about either. They are just ticked off the team is losing. And that is fine. Folks can react however they want. But to frame it like your anger has provided you clarity to stumble on some big football secret recipe is just silly.

Pats are as dramatic or more so than the Steelers. Difference is they are experience a level of success that is higher. So no one cares. Steelers are losing games and people get emotional. Then they lash out and call it "analysis".

Nothing wrong with any of that, but just be honest about it. You really don't care what happens as long as the team wins. When they don't win -- suddenly you care.

[EzraTank]

This kinda proves the point some are trying to make around here. Most folks that are foaming at the mouth about drama and culture really couldn't give a crap about either. They are just ticked off the team is losing. And that is fine. Folks can react however they want. But to frame it like your anger has provided you clarity to stumble on some big football secret recipe is just silly.

Pats are as dramatic or more so than the Steelers. Difference is they are experience a level of success that is higher. So no one cares. Steelers are losing games and people get emotional. Then they lash out and call it "analysis".

Nothing wrong with any of that, but just be honest about it. You really don't care what happens as long as the team wins. When they don't win -- suddenly you care.

I'll agree to a degree about your last point, but let's also be honest, if the amount of BS that's happening here was or is really happening in NE they wouldn't be winning which is why I think it's not true.

I'll say what I said yesterday, what's the last thing a Pats player tweeted or posted to social media? I can't remember either because they DO NOT DO IT. Why don't they do it? Because they know they will be shown the door or bench in heartbeat no matter who they are (just ask Malcolm Butler).

[Mojouw]

I'll agree to a degree about your last point, but let's also be honest, if the amount of BS that's happening here was or is really happening in NE they wouldn't be winning which is why I think it's not true.

I'll say what I said yesterday, what's the last thing a Pats player tweeted or posted to social media? I can't remember either because they DO NOT DO IT. Why don't they do it? Because they know they will be shown the door or bench in heartbeat no matter who they are (just ask Malcolm Butler).

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...m_campaign=nfl

Tell me again, about the lack do drama in NE?

Or when they thanked a racist on Twitter -- http://www.tmz.com/2014/11/14/new-en...tweet-our-bad/

Not players specifically, but this seems more than a bit dramatic -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.97f52d76e45c

What about when Welker went after Rex Ryan's foot fetish in an interview? Surely that is dramatic bulletin board material?

And to be clear, Pats players do Tweet, here is one bitching about the recent SB -- https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/pat...ouchdown-catch

And here is a whole newspaper article (remember those?) about the Pats drama and controversy this off-season -- https://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/p...J8M/story.html

Bottom line - if the team wins no one cares. If the team loses, then all this stuff that has always been happening, suddenly matters. Why? Because fans are lunatic rage machines when our team loses.

[DesertSteel]

This kinda proves the point some are trying to make around here. Most folks that are foaming at the mouth about drama and culture really couldn't give a crap about either. They are just ticked off the team is losing. And that is fine. Folks can react however they want. But to frame it like your anger has provided you clarity to stumble on some big football secret recipe is just silly.

Pats are as dramatic or more so than the Steelers. Difference is they are experience a level of success that is higher. So no one cares. Steelers are losing games and people get emotional. Then they lash out and call it "analysis".

Nothing wrong with any of that, but just be honest about it. You really don't care what happens as long as the team wins. When they don't win -- suddenly you care.

Just like in everyday life with us normal people, some folks thrive with drama while others implode with the same level of drama. Why do you think these variances don't exist with professional athletes?

[Mojouw]

Just like in everyday life with us normal people, some folks thrive with drama while others implode with the same level of drama. Why do you think these variances don't exist with professional athletes?

I've never said that. I have never denied the existence of drama for the Steelers, any other NFL team, etc. I simply reject the hypothesis that it is any more or less for this team or that team.

As I have repeatedly said, all workplaces have drama. The Steelers are workplace, therefore they have drama.

I honestly do not know how to say my point any simpler or clearer.

[BlackAndGold]

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[DesertSteel]

I've never said that. I have never denied the existence of drama for the Steelers, any other NFL team, etc. I simply reject the hypothesis that it is any more or less for this team or that team.

As I have repeatedly said, all workplaces have drama. The Steelers are workplace, therefore they have drama.

I honestly do not know how to say my point any simpler or clearer.

But your underlying point is that it has no effect on their performance on the field. And your basis is that other teams have the same drama and it doesn’t effect them adversely. My last point is that different people perform under the stress of drama differently. And what might not affect one person may cause another to lose focus. If this can happen to ordinary people it can happen to superstar athletes.

[Mojouw]

But your underlying point is that it has no effect on their performance on the field. And your basis is that other teams have the same drama and it doesn’t effect them adversely. My last point is that different people perform under the stress of drama differently. And what might not affect one person may cause another to lose focus. If this can happen to ordinary people it can happen to superstar athletes.

22-6-1 is the record in about the last 40 games. All of those but the Bears game they got beat because they were not the better team.


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[DesertSteel]

22-6-1 is the record in about the last 40 games. All of those but the Bears game they got beat because they were not the better team.


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A. 3-4 since 2011 is the only record I’m concerned with.
B. Things have escalated over the past 40 games. Drama/stress is not linear. Drama has a tipping point.

[Mojouw]

Listen to the most recent Daves podcast on Steelers Depot. My thinking aligns with theirs. They say it better than I can.


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[DesertSteel]

Listen to the most recent Daves podcast on Steelers Depot. My thinking aligns with theirs. They say it better than I can.


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I’ll check it out.


I can concede that drama ordinarily has no effect on W/L’s if you can concede that it’s possible for there to be exceptions to the rule (regardless of whether this is one or not). After all, the might win the super bowl this year and I’ll say “bring on the drama!”

[Six Rings]

Hello all!

Before I get started on this, I just want to say that I am African American myself, so this has nothing to do with race. Tomlin has had some very good accomplishments to this organization. He has never had a losing season which is a great accomplishment as he enters his 12th season.

He took over an 8-8 Cowher team and led them to a 10-6 record in 2007 with a playoff appearance. He overworked that team, which caused injuries and an early playoff exit. He learned his lesson and made proper adjustments for a 12-4 2008 Superbowl Season.

However, those were mostly players Cowher drafted, and besides Ben, they are all long gone. For those that don’t like the “Cowher’s Players” mantra, there is a huge difference here. Cowher created a culture that always had his teams under the radar. Although there was no social media, the media and reporters were what got player’s comments out back then.

Cowher always had his teams tight lipped. He tolerated no “I” over the team. He created a culture of discipline, hard work, fundementally sound, smart football. He instilled it in his players, and they did not cross the line.

What Tomlin has created is atrocious. Has he brought in some very talented players in his tenure? Sure he has! Has he had some very good success in the regular season? Sure he has! Now although Cowher has his warts as well, his teams didn’t beat themselves. Most of Cowher’s issues were based on not having a QB for the majority of his career.

The truth is the team takes on the personality of the coach. We can take last year as an example. You had Tomlin publicly looking ahead to New England. How do you think that played out in the Locker room? Mike Mitchell was one that talked about them. You had Bell tweet about a rematch with them the day before the Jags playoff game.

It’s an elitist attitude that has been created. It’s based on arrogance with a me first attitude. It’s no longer about hard work, respect for your opponents, fundementals and attention to detail. It’s one of the reasons his teams struggle against sub 500 teams.

Social media and other outlets play a huge factor in what ails this team as well.
He runs a loose locker room. Ben flies off at the mouth at times on his radio show. You had the Harrison disaster created on social media last year. I already mentioned Bell before last year’s Jags playoff game. He also gets into arguements with fans and guys like Skip Bayless. His penchant for weed doesn’t help either. Not only is he holding out this year, but also did last year. This is also a guy that has been blasting the organization with his contract demands in his rap music.


Did I mention AB’s post game facebook live distraction in the 2017 playoffs? He calls a Pittsburgh reporter a clown on twitter, threatens an espn reporter for his article, and now responds with bad taste of being traded about a fan’s remarks. We witnessed a sideline blowup yesterday and also last year.

Martavis Bryant made comments about Coates on social media last year, then later made trade demands on social media. This was the only guy that received discipline. It was probably because Bryant is only a fringe player but not a star. Now you have guys that put out their dirty laundry from the locker room.

Players such as Dupree, Pouncey and DeCastro commented on things that happened with Harrison last season. Now they are speaking to the media about their displeasures with Bell’s holdout. These are things that would not have been tolerated under Cowher. This type of activity is a reflection of what you see on the field.

They are totally dysfunctional. They are more focused on themselves and social media activity than they are on the details of their jobs, and how to carry themselves as a professional. Tomlin doesn’t address it because he stated it’s the times we live in now.

What you see on the field is sloppiness. No fundementals. Incredibly stupid, highly penalized, indisciplined and total combustion. Many of you can say what you want, but this used to be an organization that you could be proud of win or lose.

Now what we see is what used to be the Dallas Cowboys. The Steelers are this generation’s media circus. The Steelers have now become a weekly soap opera, and the laughingstock of the NFL.

Bumping an older post from 2018. I agree with 90% of this, but I think it's fair to say that Tomlin took over a star studded team of Bill Cowher players and comes that works under Bill and won his lone Superbowl under those terms, many years ago.

[Edman]

A few years later, is this guy wrong?

2018: 7-2-1 Start, only to collapse in the final weeks to 9-6-1 and out of the playoffs.
2019: 8-5, collapse to 8-8.
2020: 11-0 Start, best in franchise history, collapse to 12-4 and one and done in the playoffs again. The playoff game was a doozy.

Facing an undermanned team without its head coach, Opening offensive play is a bad snap That results in a touchdown. Giving up 28 points in the first quarter alone.

The Steelers Country Club exists. And too many veterans in that Locker Room are too big on themselves. Up to and including Ben and Pouncey.