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Thread: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

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    Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Hello all!

    Before I get started on this, I just want to say that I am African American myself, so this has nothing to do with race. Tomlin has had some very good accomplishments to this organization. He has never had a losing season which is a great accomplishment as he enters his 12th season.

    He took over an 8-8 Cowher team and led them to a 10-6 record in 2007 with a playoff appearance. He overworked that team, which caused injuries and an early playoff exit. He learned his lesson and made proper adjustments for a 12-4 2008 Superbowl Season.

    However, those were mostly players Cowher drafted, and besides Ben, they are all long gone. For those that don’t like the “Cowher’s Players” mantra, there is a huge difference here. Cowher created a culture that always had his teams under the radar. Although there was no social media, the media and reporters were what got player’s comments out back then.

    Cowher always had his teams tight lipped. He tolerated no “I” over the team. He created a culture of discipline, hard work, fundementally sound, smart football. He instilled it in his players, and they did not cross the line.

    What Tomlin has created is atrocious. Has he brought in some very talented players in his tenure? Sure he has! Has he had some very good success in the regular season? Sure he has! Now although Cowher has his warts as well, his teams didn’t beat themselves. Most of Cowher’s issues were based on not having a QB for the majority of his career.

    The truth is the team takes on the personality of the coach. We can take last year as an example. You had Tomlin publicly looking ahead to New England. How do you think that played out in the Locker room? Mike Mitchell was one that talked about them. You had Bell tweet about a rematch with them the day before the Jags playoff game.

    It’s an elitist attitude that has been created. It’s based on arrogance with a me first attitude. It’s no longer about hard work, respect for your opponents, fundementals and attention to detail. It’s one of the reasons his teams struggle against sub 500 teams.

    Social media and other outlets play a huge factor in what ails this team as well.
    He runs a loose locker room. Ben flies off at the mouth at times on his radio show. You had the Harrison disaster created on social media last year. I already mentioned Bell before last year’s Jags playoff game. He also gets into arguements with fans and guys like Skip Bayless. His penchant for weed doesn’t help either. Not only is he holding out this year, but also did last year. This is also a guy that has been blasting the organization with his contract demands in his rap music.


    Did I mention AB’s post game facebook live distraction in the 2017 playoffs? He calls a Pittsburgh reporter a clown on twitter, threatens an espn reporter for his article, and now responds with bad taste of being traded about a fan’s remarks. We witnessed a sideline blowup yesterday and also last year.

    Martavis Bryant made comments about Coates on social media last year, then later made trade demands on social media. This was the only guy that received discipline. It was probably because Bryant is only a fringe player but not a star. Now you have guys that put out their dirty laundry from the locker room.

    Players such as Dupree, Pouncey and DeCastro commented on things that happened with Harrison last season. Now they are speaking to the media about their displeasures with Bell’s holdout. These are things that would not have been tolerated under Cowher. This type of activity is a reflection of what you see on the field.

    They are totally dysfunctional. They are more focused on themselves and social media activity than they are on the details of their jobs, and how to carry themselves as a professional. Tomlin doesn’t address it because he stated it’s the times we live in now.

    What you see on the field is sloppiness. No fundementals. Incredibly stupid, highly penalized, indisciplined and total combustion. Many of you can say what you want, but this used to be an organization that you could be proud of win or lose.

    Now what we see is what used to be the Dallas Cowboys. The Steelers are this generation’s media circus. The Steelers have now become a weekly soap opera, and the laughingstock of the NFL.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Nothing you said is false.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Add lack of clock management, which has been a trend under Tomlin. Situational football is the difference between teams that deliver in the clutch or choke. The final drive by the Steelers even though it was a scoring drive, was pathetic from the clock management standpoint.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    This is all without any context or comparison to the NFL as a whole.

    It is so unhinged as to be laughable.

    Look at the penalty data -- https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...ate=2018-02-05

    Every year BUT this one, the Steelers have been closer to the least penalized team per game than the most - typically about 1 penaltiy more per game than the least penalized squad and 3 penalties less than the most penalized team . This year it has been bad so far. HOWEVER -- the crew that opened the season with them called 11 penalties on one team and 12 on the other. Rookie ref leading that group seems on track to call a ton of penalties in his games. Yesterday, I didn't see the game so I can't say. I can say that KC had 6 in their opener and 12 yesterday. Is it possible that we are again facing a flag happy crew? Or does everyone that plays the Steelers get penalty loco as well? Tomlin is a pretty convincing guy...maybe he loosens up all locker rooms in a 2 mile radius?

    So what are we left with of the original and extremely popular claim that the Steelers are a highly penalized team? We are left with the fact that it isn't borne out by any reasonable look at the stats. But, you got a pretty solid story there that makes you feel better, so who am I to stand in the way.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    This is all without any context or comparison to the NFL as a whole.

    It is so unhinged as to be laughable.

    Look at the penalty data -- https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...ate=2018-02-05

    Every year BUT this one, the Steelers have been closer to the least penalized team per game than the most - typically about 1 penaltiy more per game than the least penalized squad and 3 penalties less than the most penalized team . This year it has been bad so far. HOWEVER -- the crew that opened the season with them called 11 penalties on one team and 12 on the other. Rookie ref leading that group seems on track to call a ton of penalties in his games. Yesterday, I didn't see the game so I can't say. I can say that KC had 6 in their opener and 12 yesterday. Is it possible that we are again facing a flag happy crew? Or does everyone that plays the Steelers get penalty loco as well? Tomlin is a pretty convincing guy...maybe he loosens up all locker rooms in a 2 mile radius?

    So what are we left with of the original and extremely popular claim that the Steelers are a highly penalized team? We are left with the fact that it isn't borne out by any reasonable look at the stats. But, you got a pretty solid story there that makes you feel better, so who am I to stand in the way.
    In talking in regards to penalties, I am speaking THIS season! Have you been watching so far? Also this is only one issue in regards to discipline. Do you feel that we have players that conduct themselves like professionals as players like, Heath Miller, James Farrior, Jerome Bettis, Hines Ward and Troy P?

    Are these players smart as those guys were? Do they play as a team as they did? Are they fundementally sound like they were? Do they avoid causing team distractions as they did? Do they know how to communicate and where to line up as they did?

    Do these guys keep their composure when things are going rough, as those guys did? Were those guys being blasted in a negative light by the media as these guys are?

    As I said, those were guys that were drafted by Cowher. The first thing Cowher instilled in his players was the representation that you carry when playing for an organization like the Pittsburgh Steelers. The lesson learned in coming through the door is being a professional with high character. After that, everything else falls in place on the field.

    What we have now is players with careless attitudes that only care about their own personal interest. They lack professional ettiquette in terms of dealing with team values, the media and fans. It has all translated to sloppy, low character, combustible and dysfunctional play on the field. That all starts from the head coach, who has let the players run the locker room.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillCurtains View Post
    In talking in regards to penalties, I am speaking THIS season! Have you been watching so far? Also this is only one issue in regards to discipline. Do you feel that we have players that conduct themselves like professionals as players like, Heath Miller, James Farrior, Jerome Bettis, Hines Ward and Troy P?

    Are these players smart as those guys were? Do they play as a team as they did? Are they fundementally sound like they were? Do they avoid causing team distractions as they did? Do they know how to communicate and where to line up as they did?

    Do these guys keep their composure when things are going rough, as those guys did? Were those guys being blasted in a negative light by the media as these guys are?

    As I said, those were guys that were drafted by Cowher. The first thing Cowher instilled in his players was the representation that you carry when playing for an organization like the Pittsburgh Steelers. The lesson learned in coming through the door is being a professional with high character. After that, everything else falls in place on the field.

    What we have now is players with careless attitudes that only care about their own personal interest. They lack professional ettiquette in terms of dealing with team values, the media and fans. It has all translated to sloppy, low character, combustible and dysfunctional play on the field. That all starts from the head coach, who has let the players run the locker room.
    You can't have it both ways. For every undisciplined Artie Burns that Tomlin bears the blame for, he has to get credit for the disciplined players. When it comes to undisciplined play and locker room stuff, I think we can realistically talk about a handful of guys. Bell, AB, Burns, Mitchell, Davis, and Bryant. Well 3 of those players are not currently on the team. In contrast the entire offensive and defensive line appears to made up of fundamentally sound and disciplined players who are regarded as stable veteran team leaders. Or have AV, DeCastro, Pouncey, Heyaward, etc suddenly become locker-room cancers? What about all of the linebacking group? What about Nix and the TE's?

    So Burns blows assignments alot and Davis seems to be misaligned along with Bostic. So the idiot and two guys in new positions. Weird. Can't imagine how that happens.

    The locker room stuff has almost completely come from Bell, Brown, Mitchell, and Bryant in the last 3 seasons or so. Only one of those guys currently wears the uniform. So maybe there is a connection there.

    As to during Cowher's time. C'mon man. Faneca popped off repeatedly and at length about playing under a rookie QB. I can only imagine if Porter had access to social media what would've happened. Goodness knows he ran his mouth a bunch to just the standard media. The Plaxico Burress divorce was not smooth and painless. Ben has been contradicting the team injury report since his rookie year.

    To composure, I've never seen a Steelers team quit. Noll, Cowher, or Tomlin -- I've never seen it happen. I've seen plenty of other franchises have rosters that stopped trying for a quarter, a half, a game, whatever. Down 21-0, the team clawed their way back to being in it right to the end. That's all the composure I need.

    The same penalty charting site I previously posted has the last 3 years of Cowher's tenure. Team was basically being penalized at the same 5-6 penalties a game that they have been running at for Tomlin's entire tenure prior to this season. In both games this season the team has been called for an extreme amount of penalties. The other team has been called for the exact same extreme amount. Like I said, it would be interesting to see if that was just two flag-happy crews or an actual team problem.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    They are totally dysfunctional. They are more focused on themselves and social media activity than they are on the details of their jobs, and how to carry themselves as a professional.
    Just let me know when TJ Watt gets a game ejection during warmups because he got into an idiotic fight with an opposing player.

    Speaking of which, Porter talked more shit on his own than half the current roster on a pretty regular basis.

    And then there were the scrubs who had absolutely zero room to talk shit also doing so. Remember Lee "Paper Champions" Flowers?

    Not saying this team doesn't have issues, but I'm pretty tired of the romanticized revisionist history when it comes to the Cowher era.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Just let me know when TJ Watt gets a game ejection during warmups because he got into an idiotic fight with an opposing player.

    Speaking of which, Porter talked more shit on his own than half the current roster on a pretty regular basis.

    And then there were the scrubs who had absolutely zero room to talk shit also doing so. Remember Lee "Paper Champions" Flowers?

    Not saying this team doesn't have issues, but I'm pretty tired of the romanticized revisionist history when it comes to the Cowher era.
    Difference between that is the defense in Cowher's day put their money where their mouth was. This current team is all talk no substance.

    And I don't fault Joey Porter for stepping up to Sapp. Sapp was always being disrespectful jumping through a teams' warmup and I'm glad Joey almost knocked him out for thinking he could do that to us. Sometimes you gotta love someone with that kind of fire Porter brought to the field. Yeah he had a mouth but you could always count on him showing up every Sunday.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    Difference between that is the defense in Cowher's day put their money where their mouth was. This current team is all talk no substance.
    And how many 21-point deficits did those teams overcome? When Korkie was behind center it was pretty much game over when the team got down by 10.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    And how many 21-point deficits did those teams overcome? When Korkie was behind center it was pretty much game over when the team got down by 10.
    How many 14 point leads did we blow under Cowher?

    Not disagreeing that I'd rather not have trash talking in the media, but it was a little different then. At least when Porter trashed a team, it'd be the team we're playing next. Joey pretty much would say I'm coming to kick your @$$ and when he talked, he'd bring it. It was pretty damned embarassing last season when players were already talking New England before we even played Jacksonville. I had a bad feeling when that happened.

    I'm not too high on Joey Porter the coach, but ANY team would have absolutely loved having a prime Joey Porter on their team. The dude was intense and just a hell of a player. And he wasn't a distraction in the locker room, if anything, the rest of the team fed off his energy and intensity in game.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fire Goodell View Post
    How many 14 point leads did we blow under Cowher?

    Not disagreeing that I'd rather not have trash talking in the media, but it was a little different then. At least when Porter trashed a team, it'd be the team we're playing next. Joey pretty much would say I'm coming to kick your @$$ and when he talked, he'd bring it. It was pretty damned embarassing last season when players were already talking New England before we even played Jacksonville. I had a bad feeling when that happened.
    How many 14-point leads did we ever have under Cowher? It seems like we got a 10-point lead and went turtle mode. I clearly remember the complaints of the offense not scoring enough.

    Cowher teams also notoriously started slow. Not many 7-1 records at midseason during the Cowher regime that I can recall. 4-4/5-3 was generally the norm.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    The distractions and drama is far more advanced under Tomlin than it was Cowher. It’s not even close actually. It’s just the sign of the times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Just let me know when TJ Watt gets a game ejection during warmups because he got into an idiotic fight with an opposing player.

    Speaking of which, Porter talked more shit on his own than half the current roster on a pretty regular basis.

    And then there were the scrubs who had absolutely zero room to talk shit also doing so. Remember Lee "Paper Champions" Flowers?

    Not saying this team doesn't have issues, but I'm pretty tired of the romanticized revisionist history when it comes to the Cowher era.
    Porter backed up his trash talking. Don’t recall anyone having an issue with it either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    And how many 21-point deficits did those teams overcome? When Korkie was behind center it was pretty much game over when the team got down by 10.
    How many times did they get down by 21 in the first quarter under Cowher?

    Tomlin has a short time to get a handle on things before he completely loses the team. I like Tomlin but something seriously needs to change with his coaching style.


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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Porter backed up his trash talking. Don’t recall anyone having an issue with it either.
    I was never a fan of it, personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    How many times did they get down by 21 in the first quarter under Cowher?

    Tomlin has a short time to get a handle on things before he completely loses the team. I like Tomlin but something seriously needs to change with his coaching style.
    Seeing as how it was well over a decade ago and I tend to put bad games out of my mind pretty quickly, I'd have to go hit Pro Football Reference to find specific examples, but there were definitely plenty of duds on Cowher's watch.

    Again, I'm not saying this team doesn't have issues, I'm simply taking issue with the IMO overly-romanticized view of the Cowher era.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Just let me know when TJ Watt gets a game ejection during warmups because he got into an idiotic fight with an opposing player.

    Speaking of which, Porter talked more shit on his own than half the current roster on a pretty regular basis.

    And then there were the scrubs who had absolutely zero room to talk shit also doing so. Remember Lee "Paper Champions" Flowers?

    Not saying this team doesn't have issues, but I'm pretty tired of the romanticized revisionist history when it comes to the Cowher era.
    Watt is the type of player that I feel will be the leader of the defense. A very high character, hard working guy with a business approach.

    Yes I remember Flowers paper champions comment. That came due to having a rift with Sapp. He has been known to running his mouth to players in game, but nothing out of line or being a team distraction.

    Joey was the guy every team needs on their team. He was the emotional leader. He knew what buttons to push on the team to get them motivated. Cowher knew this. We would not have won many of the divisional rivalries vs the Bengals and Ravens without Joey.

    He talked to the opposing players on the team and backed it up. He said the Colts were soft to the media before the playoff game. The Steelers were underdogs! He was motivating the team! Bell’s comments before the Jags playoff game was overlooking them. There is a difference.

    We all know how Joey pressed up against the line. Anytime Cowher may have felt Joey crossed it, Cowher addressed it. One thing you can say about Joey is he never disrespected Cowher when he addressed him. He loved and respected him.

    His Locker rooms were never out of control. Tomlin refutes being on Hard Knocks but yet, his team is the reality show each week. You hear more about drama with the Steelers now, then you do about the Cowboys and Bengals. That’s saying alot!

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Line up suspensions between the two teams. Who had more?

    Do an honest assessment of explosive quotes and media nonsense. I bet it comes out roughly equal.

    The Steelers have no more or less media and locker-room stuff than any other team. You just hear about it now because we are rabid fans and about 30% of the internet is devoted to the NFL.

    Also want to bet me that Porter disrespected a whole bunch of coaches. I bet if Adam Schefter and Twitter could go back in time solely what they got from Porter would pay for the trip.

    Also, you can't have one kind of yapping as good and one as bad because you don't like the outcome. If that is the case than what this entire thread is about is how you don't like it when your favorite team losses. Instead you have created a thread about how you don't like the personality of your favorite team. So either you like teams that have fiery emotional guys on them that run their mouth or you don't.

    I mean if all of this is because you get the sad feelings whenever the Steelers lose games and it makes you angry, well all I can say is welcome to being a sports fan. Try and not let it get you down?

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillCurtains View Post
    Hello all!

    Before I get started on this, I just want to say that I am African American myself, so this has nothing to do with race. Tomlin has had some very good accomplishments to this organization. He has never had a losing season which is a great accomplishment as he enters his 12th season.

    He took over an 8-8 Cowher team and led them to a 10-6 record in 2007 with a playoff appearance. He overworked that team, which caused injuries and an early playoff exit. He learned his lesson and made proper adjustments for a 12-4 2008 Superbowl Season.

    However, those were mostly players Cowher drafted, and besides Ben, they are all long gone. For those that don’t like the “Cowher’s Players” mantra, there is a huge difference here. Cowher created a culture that always had his teams under the radar. Although there was no social media, the media and reporters were what got player’s comments out back then.

    Cowher always had his teams tight lipped. He tolerated no “I” over the team. He created a culture of discipline, hard work, fundementally sound, smart football. He instilled it in his players, and they did not cross the line.

    What Tomlin has created is atrocious. Has he brought in some very talented players in his tenure? Sure he has! Has he had some very good success in the regular season? Sure he has! Now although Cowher has his warts as well, his teams didn’t beat themselves. Most of Cowher’s issues were based on not having a QB for the majority of his career.

    The truth is the team takes on the personality of the coach. We can take last year as an example. You had Tomlin publicly looking ahead to New England. How do you think that played out in the Locker room? Mike Mitchell was one that talked about them. You had Bell tweet about a rematch with them the day before the Jags playoff game.

    It’s an elitist attitude that has been created. It’s based on arrogance with a me first attitude. It’s no longer about hard work, respect for your opponents, fundementals and attention to detail. It’s one of the reasons his teams struggle against sub 500 teams.

    Social media and other outlets play a huge factor in what ails this team as well.
    He runs a loose locker room. Ben flies off at the mouth at times on his radio show. You had the Harrison disaster created on social media last year. I already mentioned Bell before last year’s Jags playoff game. He also gets into arguements with fans and guys like Skip Bayless. His penchant for weed doesn’t help either. Not only is he holding out this year, but also did last year. This is also a guy that has been blasting the organization with his contract demands in his rap music.


    Did I mention AB’s post game facebook live distraction in the 2017 playoffs? He calls a Pittsburgh reporter a clown on twitter, threatens an espn reporter for his article, and now responds with bad taste of being traded about a fan’s remarks. We witnessed a sideline blowup yesterday and also last year.

    Martavis Bryant made comments about Coates on social media last year, then later made trade demands on social media. This was the only guy that received discipline. It was probably because Bryant is only a fringe player but not a star. Now you have guys that put out their dirty laundry from the locker room.

    Players such as Dupree, Pouncey and DeCastro commented on things that happened with Harrison last season. Now they are speaking to the media about their displeasures with Bell’s holdout. These are things that would not have been tolerated under Cowher. This type of activity is a reflection of what you see on the field.

    They are totally dysfunctional. They are more focused on themselves and social media activity than they are on the details of their jobs, and how to carry themselves as a professional. Tomlin doesn’t address it because he stated it’s the times we live in now.

    What you see on the field is sloppiness. No fundementals. Incredibly stupid, highly penalized, indisciplined and total combustion. Many of you can say what you want, but this used to be an organization that you could be proud of win or lose.

    Now what we see is what used to be the Dallas Cowboys. The Steelers are this generation’s media circus. The Steelers have now become a weekly soap opera, and the laughingstock of the NFL.
    Good post, StillCurtains, You're always gonna have the Tomlin apologists no matter if the players are running the locker room or not.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Mr. Rooney just need to fix this shit. Put your foot down.

    Tomorrow's press conference with Tomlin will be interesting. If he has another comment about not being bothered(paraphrasing) by the recent actions, then my god.
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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by StillCurtains View Post
    Cowher always had his teams tight lipped. He tolerated no “I” over the team. He created a culture of discipline, hard work, fundementally sound, smart football. He instilled it in his players, and they did not cross the line.
    Always?

    I can only assume you have repressed your memories of the 1999 season when Cowher's disciplined, fundamentally sound team went 6-10. This column describes what happened in only the end of season loss to the Titans at Three Rivers, which included a Steelers player being something other than tight lipped by calling out his teammates.

    Forget the 309 yards that Mike Tomczak passed for and consider what he had to say after the game. His words were a slap at his teammates and the coaching staff. And this from a player who desperately wants to be signed to a new contract by the Steelers.

    "I think we need to get back to fundamentals and discipline." Tomczak said.

    Reminded that a need to get back to discipline and fundamentals indicated the team was lacking in those areas, Tomczak said, "Sometimes, you lose focus during the course of a game or during the course of a week of practice. You just have to remember the little things that got you where you were. Pay attention to detail. This is your profession. Treat it like your profession. Don't take anything for granted. Don't say, 'I'll study that tomorrow.' Study it now when it's important and it means something because too many guys are fighting [to win.]...

    The lead became 18 midway through the fourth quarter when Richard Huntley fumbled, and Denard Walker recovered and ran 83 yards for a touchdown. Huntley had a chance to tackle Walker, but he thought the play was over and walked away....

    There's no telling where wide receiver Bobby Shaw's head was when he caught a 35-yard touchdown pass from Tomczak with less than two minutes remaining. In celebrating the score, Shaw pulled up his Steelers' shirt to show a Superman T-shirt underneath....his gesture speaks to the lack of discipline on the team.

    So does the fact two players were ejected. Troy Edwards was thrown after Walker's fumble recovery for starting a pushing match with Dainon Sydney, whose crime was that he blocked Edwards on the play.

    Still later, Wayne Gandy was ejected for shoving referee Tom White.

    http://old.post-gazette.com/steelers...103smizik2.asp

    Those were the days when Steelers teams were smart and fundamentally sound, eh?

    Tomlin needs to get his team under control but finally winning the Super Bowl did a lot to rehab Cowher's image from seasons like 1999 and other instances where his team was not focused, such as the disastrous home AFC championship game loss to the Chargers.

    The past looks a lot better when the present is unsatisfactory.
    Thanks for the memories

  21. #21
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Tomlin needs to get his team under control

    ...

    The past looks a lot better when the present is unsatisfactory.
    Thank you.

    I see two separate (and kind of unrelated) topics here. 1. Tomlin needs to “unleash hell”, and 2. Cowher was a more bettererer coach.

    1. We all agree. Tomlin has to self-evaluate his team. Firing Butler would be a good start, but it simply is not going to happen. Regardless, Tomlin needs to change “something.”

    2. The myth that Cowher had so much more discipline is partially due to time/distance (we’ve forgotten a lot of his warts). Also, the analogy that I like to use is that crime is down, but reporting of (every little) crime is way, way up. As in: we hear more about the shenanigans, because of social media and/or due to there being two 24-hour news outlets (ESPN, NFL Network).

    -1994: Eric Green coordinates the filming of a Super Bowl video... before the AFCCG.

    -2001: Cowher has players book hotel rooms for the Super Bowl... before the AFCCG.

    -Plaxico is habitually late to team meetings.

    -Joey the Mouth gets kicked out of a game... during warmups.

    -Joey the Mouth enters the Ravens’ team bus.

    -et cetera

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Good find, Dan. Also from that article:

    There's no telling how far the Steelers would have regressed if their season hadn't come to a merciful conclusion yesterday. But based on the evidence presented at Three River Stadium, it wasn't hard to picture some pretty awful play from a team that -- and this seems hard to believe today -- was in the AFC title game two seasons ago.

    The Steelers lost to the Tennessee Titans, 47-36, in terrible display of football that showed just how far the team has tumbled.
    But I guess pointing stuff like this out makes us Tomlin "apologists."

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    ...finally winning the Super Bowl did a lot to rehab Cowher's image from seasons like 1999 and other instances where his team was not focused, such as the disastrous home AFC championship game loss to the Chargers.
    Not to mention that the one SB he did finally win was so poorly played that pretty much everybody who isn't a Steelers fan STILL thinks the fix was in and that Dan Rooney paid off the officiating crew.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Funny how 1999 is cited as the only example of a Cowher team looking dumb. A 6-10 season of a declined squad in transition.

    By 1999 that team was eviscerated by age and free agency, and were devoid of talent. "Korkie" and the offense was dealing with the third OC in two years. After Chan Gailey left and the Ray Sherman era came to a close after a few games.

    Tomlin, for the most part is not in any rebuilding phase as far as we know. He has a quarterback, a running back, and one of the best wide receivers of his generation. He has done next to nothing with that talent but underachieve, talk a bunch of shit, and fail spectacularly in the postseason. They've certainly done a great job embarrassing themselves week after week too. Yet there is drama and turmoil that makes the T.O-Era Cowboys look sane.

    Not even remotely comparable to the greasefire going on right now.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Funny how 1999 is cited as the only example of a Cowher team looking dumb. A 6-10 season of a declining squad in transition.

    By 1999 the 90's teams were eviscerated by free agency, and were devoid of talent.

    Tomlin, for the most part is not in any rebuilding phase as far as we know. He has a quarterback, a running back, and one of the best wide receivers of his generation. He has done next to nothing with that talent but underachieve, talk a bunch of shit, and fail spectacularly in the postseason. They've certainly done a great job embarrassing themselves week after week too. Yet there is drama and turmoil that makes the T.O-Era Cowboys look sane.

    Not even remotely comparable.
    Don't forget 1998 and 2003, which were also LOSING seasons. And then there was the implosion in the 2001 AFCCG.

    How much more evidence is needed to be dug up and cited?

    More rock solid discipline on display here:


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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Don't forget 1998 and 2003, which were also LOSING seasons. And then there was the implosion in the 2001 AFCCG.

    How much more evidence is needed to be dug up and cited?
    I get your evidence of bad Steeler teams just fine, the thing is that they were one-time occurences. Tomlin's failing culture have been a consistent occurence spanning back a few years. Locker room drama, offseason distractions, unchecked egos, a quarterback who is growing into another Brett Favre, dysfunction and underachievment. The circus show this year is the result of the buildup of years of lacking coaching and letting the toxic culture grow into a monster.

    1998 was a collapse and Kordell Stewart hitting a wall and turmoil at OC (Sherman getting fired mid-season and replaced with Gilbride).

    2003 was the Steelers experiementing with Air Maddox Offense and failing spectacularly, as Tommy Maddox hit the wall and showed why he wasn't a hot commodity in the NFL, forcing the Steelers to draft a QB (Or force Cowher to). 15-1 a season later, a Super Bowl right after.

    Again, one season occurences and one-time failings. Was Cowher perfect? Hardly. But his overall coaching work has more stability than Tomlin's overall. Just because Tomlin hasn't had a losing season, doesn't make his coaching any less questionable.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Again, one season occurences and one-time failings. Was Cowher perfect? Hardly. But his overall coaching work has more stability than Tomlin's overall. Just because Tomlin hasn't had a losing season, doesn't make his coaching any less questionable.
    Except that the Steelers W/L record IMPROVED every year from 2015-2017. I don't think that would happen if the team was as out of control as people seem to think it is.

    Sorry, wins and losses still matter.

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    • In November 1992 — Cowher's first year *— Eric Green got busted for violating the league's substance-abuse policy.

    • In 1996, Byron "Bam" Morris pleaded guilty to felony possession of marijuana.

    • In 2000, Richard Huntley and Earl Holmes got involved in a minicamp wooden-stool-swinging brawl in the locker room.

    • Plaxico Burress was cited for an open-container violation in Cleveland and public drunkenness in Virginia while he was a Steeler. He also got ejected for fighting James Trapp during a Ravens game, and he skipped a minicamp practice as a Mother's Day protest.

    • Marvel Smith was arrested for using marijuana two weeks before training camp started in 2002.

    • Porter got ejected for a pregame fight in Cleveland and tried to fight Ray Lewis outside of the Baltimore team bus in 2003. This after he missed the game with his injury from a gunshot wound.

    • Hines Ward held out of training camp in 2005.
    That’s a list of some “drama” that occurred under Cowher’s watch. Pretty comparable to what has happened under Tomlin’s tenure. Difference is A LOT of the stuff that is occurring under Tomlin has a lot of other strings and sub stories attached and is a lot of unnecessary banter. That’s due to social media and the media presence of today.

    Ie) LeVeon Bell doesn’t show for camp...you have these idiots take to social media ragging on their teammate in the most public of ways. Not like Ramon Foster and Marcus Gilbert were walking around the mall talking about it and a couple teenagers and their Mom heard it, they took their convo in front of millions of people.

    Ie) Pouncey takes to the media after James Harrison leaves. How about just say no comment and end it there.

    Ie) AB (and other players) and their social media brand. They are saying (and doing) outrageous things to gain followers, clicks, views, whatever at the expense of a drama free football season.

    These examples can go on and on and on. The bottom line is these guys all want to be a story, they all want to be “the guy”, the one getting all the attention and social media is giving them this platform. The “drama story of the day” occurs and then these guys extend it to their own personal story and make it even bigger than it needs to be.

    This is something Tomlin needs to get under control in one form or fashion. The drama will happen, it happens on every team...you just don’t need to make it a bigger story and ass more life to it than need be.

    Stay off social media and learn the phrase “no comment”.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

  28. #28
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Don't forget 1998 and 2003, which were also LOSING seasons. And then there was the implosion in the 2001 AFCCG.

    How much more evidence is needed to be dug up and cited?

    More rock solid discipline on display here:
    Those three losing seasons don’t count. Only Tomlin’s losses count.

    Just like how Cowher had a LOSING record in the playoffs (8-9) until the 2005 run. That is 13 seasons of mediocrity. Up until 2005, people were crucifying Cowher... by comparing him to Noll’s teams of the 70s, and citing how he hadn’t done anything since Noll’s players had retired. And, I defended him... because, it was obvious that he was a good coach.

    Déjà vu all over again.

  29. #29
    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Funny how 1999 is cited as the only example of a Cowher team looking dumb. A 6-10 season of a declined squad in transition.

    By 1999 that team was eviscerated by age and free agency, and were devoid of talent. "Korkie" and the offense was dealing with the third OC in two years. After Chan Gailey left and the Ray Sherman era came to a close after a few games.

    Tomlin, for the most part is not in any rebuilding phase as far as we know. He has a quarterback, a running back, and one of the best wide receivers of his generation. He has done next to nothing with that talent but underachieve, talk a bunch of shit, and fail spectacularly in the postseason. They've certainly done a great job embarrassing themselves week after week too. Yet there is drama and turmoil that makes the T.O-Era Cowboys look sane.

    Not even remotely comparable to the greasefire going on right now.
    1999 was a grease fire

    If you are one of the few head coaches that lasts more than 5 years you are going to have transition seasons. But my point about 1999 was not that it was a losing season but that the team fell apart from a discipline standpoint. It was bad enough that some thought Cowher was going to lose his power struggle with Tom Donohoe and get fired.

    And it is not as if that is the only season where Cowher's teams were not focused like a laser on the task ahead.

    One of the first times Tomlin got blasted was for the 2009 post-Super Bowl season when the team failed to unleash hell.

    But Cowher matched that with his 2006 season where the team went 0-4 in preseason and the season was pretty much cooked after a 2-6 start. Ben's motorcycle accident obviously was a big factor (as was Troy being injured for most of the 2009 season) but it certainly didn't help that Cowher was cashed out after contract extension talks ended and he was looking for the exit during that season after his family had already moved to Raleigh during the offseason.

    Cowher was an excellent coach - but the contention he always imposed a Lombardi like focus on discipline and being ready on game day throughout his 15 season run is pretty easily rebutted.
    Thanks for the memories

  30. #30
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    Re: Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    And how many 21-point deficits did those teams overcome? When Korkie was behind center it was pretty much game over when the team got down by 10.
    The better question is how many 10-point leads did they give up and lose?

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