Tomlin has created a terrible culture in Pittsburgh.

[Neversatisfied]

Anyone willing to look at the situation in Pittsburgh with an unbiased opinion can see the incredible dysfunction. The Pittsburgh Steelers have big problems, they appear larger than in years leading up to 2018-2019. The Window is rapidly closing on Ben, AB and Bell are beyond selfish and out of control on social media leaving the offensive line who to many peoples displeasure offered their opinion on the Lev Bell fiasco. The defense is in shambles after a total rebuild (minus 2-3 players) all the while the Coaching staff has a handle on nothing. The coaching staff (and this includes Mike Tomlin) has underachieved it's way to 3 playoff wins in 8 seasons. There appears to be no in-game adjustments, poor fundamentals and a
general unprepared approach. The talent level on the offensive side is plentiful but defensively lacking to put it mildly. The Culture in that locker room needs to do a 180 but that might take quite a while.

[Dwinsgames]

its as bad as I have ever seen it in my 47 years of being a fan of this team .... suspect worst in my lifetime

[st33lersguy]

Tomlin has been doing a poor job since last year. The level of drama is beyond ridiculous and beyond normal levels. Then there is the underachieving on the field. Being bailed out by star players numerous times against weaker competition only to bow out meekly in the first playoff game despite being the most talented team in the AFC. Then there is this disaster thus far, and things only appear to get worse. Tomlin needs to step up his game and that includes tightening the loose ship as well as a serious overhaul in the defensive coaching staff. Not making changes and sticking to the status quo is not an option. Sadly at this point I think it is going to take a great defensive coordinator to win a championship again because Tomlin with Keith Butler is a disaster and it is readily apparent these defensive position coaches are not coaching up these young players at all

[Renegade]

Even if the other teams under Cowher and Tomlin's team that had Cowher's players (I mean seriously, Tomlin inherited an amazing team and that's not really up for debate), had their share of problems and embarrassing, dysfunctional moments, those teams were more defend-able and the chaos was more tolerable. This team is a miracle... all the talent, considerable success at times, but they are grating to the soul (at least mine). I would rather have the better behaved 8-8 squad from a couple years back than a 13-3 team that talks too much, gets in to trouble and ultimately doesn't win anything either.

[Mojouw]

I am old and grumpy and do not like social media. Or at least social media that is used in activities or types of expression I disagree with. I like to apply the ideals and values I hold to people 20-40 years younger than me with no regard to the fact that those decades of difference in age mean we won't have the same values and approaches to life. Change makes me feel yucky and uncomfortable. Know when else I feel gross? When my favorite sports team that I heavily emotionally invested in loses. I get the sads. So then I get the angries and rant on the internet. Sometimes even social media - no irony there! Also, I don't want to take the time to break down or understand the details on anything other than "Steelers are better and more special than ANY other sports franchise and the Rooneys have created a marvelous sports utopia where only good people are allowed in." Thinking through complex football concepts is not what I want to do - I want to cheer my Steelers to victories! So let's blame low hanging fruit like "culture" and "the locker room" rather than engage in actual thought about what is going on. Also, when presented with evidence to demonstrate that past special Steelers squads had their own fair share of problems, I will just ignore, deny, and spin out of it. Kinda like Mendenhall carrying the ball...

That is one extreme. i am guilty of the other - ignoring all off-field issues and only focusing on what I can see on Sundays. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

The Steelers have no more or less drama than any other NFL team. Social media has had a negative impact on the Steelers and any other team's ability to keep stuff "private". Related to this is that the players under say about 26 or so have an almost totally different definition of privacy than most NFL fans. Sharing everything around them at every moment is as natural to them as breathing. Every team faces this challenge and no one has a good answer for it yet.

The Steelers have a schematic problem on defense. Full Stop. I can no longer contextualize or equivocate on that point. They do NOT have a realistic answer for empty sets that flood zones with vertical routes. Heaven forbid they throw a crosser or drag between the verticals - we may see the ILBs and safeties just spin in place. Butler and company need to devise another solution. Because the two or three we have seen in the past few seasons are not producing acceptable results.

However, this coaching failure does not then need to be exaggerated to be a covering explanation for every thing with the word "Steelers" in it. As I have mentioned before a football team is what 60 some players and dozens of support staff. The Steelers drama in the past 3 years has come from like 4 of those people. Go find me a group of say 150 people where there aren't 4 dramatic pains in the rear who can't follow the rules. Never going to happen. It doesn't exist.

[Fire Goodell]

The thing that bothers me about Tomlin is that if you're a talented player on the team, you basically get a free pass on anything. If you're a starter, you're not held accountable. Bell skipping walkthroughs last year, Artie Burns tossing his helmet in week 1, and now this, and basically no repercussions. Cowher or Noll would have had their asses and made them sit on the bench or suspended them, not caring if it was their star player or not. Not holding players accountable for these kind of actions sort of builds an atmosphere that if you're a star player that you're bigger than the team. And we're especially seeing that with Bell and AB.

[DesertSteel]

The Steelers have no more or less drama than any other NFL team.

The worldwide perception outside of Mojouw-ville is that they do.

[EzraTank]

Can anyone tell me the last thing Tom Brady posted on social media? Yeah me neither.

That's why they win year after year after year. Belechick and Brady. You think Belechick would tolerate the crap that goes on here? The guy BENCHED his best corner back in the Superbowl last year for putting himself before the team.

We can hate the Patriots all we want but they are run like the military. Why do you think Brady has different receivers and their defense is always a bunch of no-name guys that just win. Outside of Randy Moss (at the tail end of his career when he way more mature) who has Brady had that's been considered a stud receiver?

I've said it in other threads, we will never win a Superbowl as long as Tomlin is here. As the OP stated, Cowher's defensive players have aged out. Ben is all that remains and Ben was very young when Cowher left. Tomlin has gotten lucky with a few draft picks (Shazier, Brown, Bell) but being that he came from the defensive side of coaching his team's sure don't seem like it.

It's sad but true. If this team craps the bed this season it may be time to show Tomlin and all his coaches the door. Let the new HC bring in his own coordinators. We need a guy that will put the clamps on this team and put an end to this "LOOK AT ME" nonsense.

[fansince'76]

The thing that bothers me about Tomlin is that if you're a talented player on the team, you basically get a free pass on anything. If you're a starter, you're not held accountable.

NFL notes: Tomlin benches Bryant for social media use

[fansince'76]

Can anyone tell me the last thing Tom Brady posted on social media? Yeah me neither.

That's why they win year after year after year. Belechick and Brady. You think Belechick would tolerate the crap that goes on here? The guy BENCHED his best corner back in the Superbowl last year for putting himself before the team.

We can hate the Patriots all we want but they are run like the military. Why do you think Brady has different receivers and their defense is always a bunch of no-name guys that just win. Outside of Randy Moss (at the tail end of his career when he way more mature) who has Brady had that's been considered a stud receiver?

I've said it in other threads, we will never win a Superbowl as long as Tomlin is here. As the OP stated, Cowher's defensive players have aged out. Ben is all that remains and Ben was very young when Cowher left. Tomlin has gotten lucky with a few draft picks (Shazier, Brown, Bell) but being that he came from the defensive side of coaching his team's sure don't seem like it.

It's sad but true. If this team craps the bed this season it may be time to show Tomlin and all his coaches the door. Let the new HC bring in his own coordinators. We need a guy that will put the clamps on this team and put an end to this "LOOK AT ME" nonsense.

Uh, OK...

Report: Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, Robert Kraft drama sparks dysfunction with Patriots

[Fire Goodell]

NFL notes: Tomlin benches Bryant for social media use

Bryant isn't anything special and proved that. If AB or Bell did the same thing it'd get swept under the rug. Burns would have gotten harsher treatment if our CB room wasn't such a steaming pile of crap

[fansince'76]

Good lord. I give up. Every time something is posted in black and white to refute something, the goalposts get moved.

[EzraTank]

Uh, OK...

Report: Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, Robert Kraft drama sparks dysfunction with Patriots

That was all BS put out by the media. And with all that supposedly happening what did they do last year? Oh go to yet another Superbowl.

[fansince'76]

That was all BS put out by the media.

Sure it was.

And with all that supposedly happening what did they do last year? Oh go to yet another Superbowl.

Yep. Which they lost. If you're not first, you're last.

[Fire Goodell]

Good lord. I give up. Every time something is posted in black and white to refute something, the goalposts get moved.

yeah you should, you ain't going to change my mind or many others on the issue once our minds our made up

[AtlantaDan]

its as bad as I have ever seen it in my 47 years of being a fan of this team .... suspect worst in my lifetime

There have been some other bad patches in the pre-internet/social media days

Never seen this much drama from a steelers team
Ed Bouchette - You're probably not old enough, but check out 1977

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201809180131

1977 was a train wreck

• cocaine possession trial of Ernie Holmes in Texas in February
  
• Raiders defensive back George Atkinson sued Chuck Noll for calling him part of the NFL’s “criminal element” and the trial took place in Oakland...Noll acknowledged that some of his own players by their play could be lumped into the “criminal element” category. One was Mel Blount.
  
• Not only was Blount holding out for a new contract, he then sued Noll for $5 million for his comments about him in Oakland.
• Jack Lambert held out over his contract until Sept. 1 and his agent asked the Steelers to trade him

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201710200067

Of course that team was so loaded with talent it slipped all the way to a 9-5 record and was tied at Denver in the 4th quarter of a playoff loss to the AFC champs

[Edman]

Yep. Which they lost. If you're not first, you're last.

Losing a Super Bowl repeat after coming off a Super Bowl Championship season. Seven AFC Title game appearances in a row? Man, those Patriots don't know what they're doing and the Steelers are the bestest organization ever with the bestest Quarterback ever that will take them to the top.

3-4 Postseason record since 2014? 38 points to Blake Bortles and lose at home? Don't make any changes and keep the Defensive Coordinator who is running the absolute biggest shitshow of a defense in Steelers recent history? Get that nonsense out of here. The Steelers know whats up.

It's that level of unfounded arrogance that unfortuately permeates through the fanbase as well as the team.

[fansince'76]

Losing a Super Bowl repeat after coming off a Super Bowl Championship season. Seven AFC Title game appearances in a row? Man, those Patriots don't know what they're doing and the Steelers are the bestest organization ever with the bestest Quarterback ever that will take them to the top.

3-4 Postseason record since 2014? 38 points to Blake Bortles and lose at home? Don't make any changes and keep the Defensive Coordinator who is running the absolute biggest shitshow of a defense in Steelers recent history? Get that nonsense out of here. The Steelers know whats up.

It's that level of unfounded arrogance that unfortuately permeates through the fanbase as well as the team.

Missed my point completely.

[DesertSteel]

Uh, OK...

Report: Tom Brady, Bill Belichick, Robert Kraft drama sparks dysfunction with Patriots

The difference is that they've been going to the Super Bowl, and spanking the Steelers in the process. Drama is palatable if you're winning. I think everyone understands that.

[fansince'76]

The difference is that they've been going to the Super Bowl, and spanking the Steelers in the process. Drama is palatable if you're winning. I think everyone understands that.

Agreed, but that's not the assertion that was made that that post was in response to.

And I wonder what folks would say if Roethlisberger began dragging a "body coach" with virtually zero professional credentials and who also didn't work for the team around team facilities that Tomlin and/or ARII disapproved of?

[Mojouw]

Erased because I was being a jerk.

[Mojouw]

The worldwide perception outside of Mojouw-ville is that they do.

Side by side comparisons of teams seems to show they do not.

AB yelling at a coach and saying something dumb on Twitter is not why this team lost on Sunday. The inability of the defense to deal with empty formations that attack up the field is why they lost. Being attacked at the edges in the run game and vertically down the field is why they lost last year. They fixed the run game stuff (seemingly) but have yet to formulate an answer for the vertical stuff.

Why complicate and confuse the issue? Until the Pittsburgh Steelers devise a way for the players on the current roster to stop a good to great offense from spreading them out and attacking down the field against overmatched and confused defenders, they will continue to lose games and look foolish doing it. The entire locker room could light their phones on fire and go dark on social media for the rest of the season. Spend their entire time watching tape, lifting weights, and chewing glass. If they can not figure out how to stop those types of formations and running games that beat slower LBers to the corner, they will be a .500 team at best.

I am honestly confused why a large portion of fans refuse to accept that the answer is that cut and dried. It is simple and straightforward, yet this team has no good answer for the question. And they keep getting asked the question over and over again.

But tell me again about Twitter. Because that is a "feel good answer". A few punishment laps and a handful of up-downs should drive the coach's point home. Maybe a fine or a short benching if it really needs to be made clear. Some good old fashioned discipline is all that is needed. Then Bostic will magically be able to run with Travis Kelce 20 yards downfield? Edmunds and Burnett will suddenly understand zone concepts better?

Discipline isn't the answer. Either a better plan or better players.

[fansince'76]

No more ping pong!

[Mojouw]

Okay. I've ranted and raved and that isn't productive. Not like anyone wants to engage with the jackass standing in the corner yelling at everyone.

But someone needs to walk me through the connections between whatever the hell a "culture" is and how it led to what happened on Sunday.

I start with the following assumptions:
1. Everyone who has ever spent time around the time during the Tomlin tenure speaks glowingly about how organized, crisp, and results oriented practice sessions are. The offense is executing well, so this can't just be the team spends all week dinking around instead of preparing in an appropriate manner.
2. Many players on the roster never say or do anything "dramatic".
3. Many players on the roster have made immense strides in their development as football players during their time on a Tomlin led team.
4. Many former Steelers attempt to return as soon as possible.

Taking all that, how does the locker-room make Bostic too slow to cover Kelce? I'm told that Watt is a breakout player who is just the very model of a modern major football player but he repeatedly did not execute his assignment on Sunday. Heyward and Tuitt are held up as exactly who and what you want on your roster. They didn't do squat.

I mean the most "dramatic" Steelers in 2018 are the offensive line and AB. The line played really well on Sunday and AB was less than his usual dominant self and seemed to have a tantrum, but it wasn't like he was out there dogging it and stinking up the place. I think he had 17 targets for 9 catches.

So is it the locker-room and discipline OR is it that the Steelers got asked the same question they have tripped over every time they are asked it for the past, what 4 years? 5?

[lipps83]

Discipline isn't the answer. Either a better plan or better players.

Yeah, but AB said something I didn't like on Facebook/twitter/instagram/newspaper. Who is going to make things right in the world now? Why does AB keep doing things I don't understand or agree with and making me upset? I have a 5 second view into his 24 hour day and I don't like what I saw. The media keeps talking about it so it must be important.

AB is responsible for how I feel, not me.....I am not the problem AB is. My thinking is correct and his is invalid.

Why is he doing this to me?

[86WARD]

No more ping pong!

Post of the season!!

[Crow-Magnon]

All I gotta say is that I’ve seen Tomlin’s Steelers make many a halftime adjustment against the Ravens often to my dismay. I do think the Steelers often play down to a perceived inferior opponent, whereas said inferior opponent often brings their A game.

[pczach]

Losing a Super Bowl repeat after coming off a Super Bowl Championship season. Seven AFC Title game appearances in a row? Man, those Patriots don't know what they're doing and the Steelers are the bestest organization ever with the bestest Quarterback ever that will take them to the top.

3-4 Postseason record since 2014? 38 points to Blake Bortles and lose at home? Don't make any changes and keep the Defensive Coordinator who is running the absolute biggest shitshow of a defense in Steelers recent history? Get that nonsense out of here. The Steelers know whats up.

It's that level of unfounded arrogance that unfortuately permeates through the fanbase as well as the team.

Arrogance is not knowing a damn thing about football, but lecturing everyone here on the performances of the entire organization. You have been saying Big Ben is basically dog shit. That alone shows that you don't have the slightest clue of how to evaluate talent.

You cannot break down anything that is going on within the lines of the field from an X's and O's standpoint. We're all supposed to just take your word for it because you really, really mean it? That's not good enough.

You are acting like a child throwing a tantrum over things you can't control. You aren't making much sense to anyone but your new friend anal cyst with your rants about Ben being a shitty quarterback.

The amazing thing is that there are many of us that have concerns about this team and about Tomlin. We just won't let you frame the debate with your incessant bullshit and false claims that you keep screaming louder and louder into your keyboard...….and some of us even understand the game on levels that you don't......imagine that.

We need to find out more. We need to know who's in control of the defense. We need to see what transpires on the field, and try to see what changes are being made from a schematic and performance perspective. Standing up and screaming and waving our fists while demanding Tomlin be publicly castrated, and Butler is burned at the stake.

I'd like to know what is actually going on before I pass final judgment on assigning blame, and try to see what needs to be done. And I have no power whatsoever. I am just trying to be fair and informed as if I was making the decision.

You are making demands and you can't answer a single question definitively like who is designing the defense? Who is making adjustments to scheme? Who is developing personnel packages and deciding who plays in them? How much input does Tomlin have in the game day defensive calls? Etc...etc...

Do you know the answers to any of those questions?

The answer is no because none of us knows anything right now. When we do know.....then we can react with an informed opinion instead of screaming into the wind.

[DesertSteel]

Side by side comparisons of teams seems to show they do not.

Notice I used the word perception. Your side by side chart does nothing to alter perception. Nothing.

Secondly, drama is just as much about the ensuing effect as it is the actual acts. Your chart will just show the acts committed and nothing else. Th media smells blood in the Steelers tank right now. Every misdeed, tirade, stupid tweet, holdout, etc. is magnified. To keep doing stupid and selfish things in those conditions make everything more dramatic. Thus there is more drama with the Steelers. Do you not teach your students about the consequences of their decisions? The consequences are part of the drama and the Steelers organization and players are eyeball high in this garbage. A side by side ain't gonna change that bro.

- - - Updated - - -

Agreed, but that's not the assertion that was made that that post was in response to.

And I wonder what folks would say if Roethlisberger began dragging a "body coach" with virtually zero professional credentials and who also didn't work for the team around team facilities that Tomlin and/or ARII disapproved of?

BR7 for the win!!

[Mojouw]

Notice I used the word perception. Your side by side chart does nothing to alter perception. Nothing.

Secondly, drama is just as much about the ensuing effect as it is the actual acts. Your chart will just show the acts committed and nothing else. Th media smells blood in the Steelers tank right now. Every misdeed, tirade, stupid tweet, holdout, etc. is magnified. To keep doing stupid and selfish things in those conditions make everything more dramatic. Thus there is more drama with the Steelers. Do you not teach your students about the consequences of their decisions? The consequences are part of the drama and the Steelers organization and players are eyeball high in this garbage. A side by side ain't gonna change that bro.

- - - Updated - - -


BR7 for the win!!

Honestly I can't really figure out what you mean. It seems you are saying that drama is a product of people's perception and that perception is often wrong. Then the drama is intensified by the media and players feed into it. So a maybe not real thing is shouted from the rooftops by some bloggers and Twitters and now actual people doing actual jobs in the NFL should do something?

And what are the consequences? Like some people think less of AB than they did 36 hours ago?