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Thread: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute"> pczach's Avatar

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    That’s a real thing though...I said it in another thread...Good Players can cover up Questionable Coaching and Good Coaching can cover up Less Talented Players. Unfortunately, to date, there is Questionable Coaching and Less Talented Players and that’s not a good mix...

    I fall under the defend Tomlin crowd. I have always felt he was questioned and doubted by fans far before any real criticism was even reasonable.

    There are definitely some things happening with the team right now that need to be addressed and fixed immediately. There are some legit questions. I just get so sick of some of the same people that questioned him after he won a Super Bowl, went to another, and rebuilt a roster without having a losing season. I just always hate when people make claims for decades on a person until it becomes truth. It doesn't mean they were correct all along. It just means that they hated long enough for a down cycle to occur that they try to use to vindicate all the stupid shit they have said and accusations they have made over the last 11 years.

    I have some questions myself over what I am seeing with this team. I think there are some tough questions to be asked, and there better be some good answers and some good solutions pretty soon. I don't, however, believe in knee-jerk reactions that call for beheading a man that has done his job pretty well for a long time.

    I'm not close enough to the situation to know everything I need to know to assign blame or to offer solutions. I am still seeing a defense that literally doesn't know what they're doing on far too many plays, particularly in coverage. There are far too many receivers left completely uncovered or having players releasing receivers to the next level, but nobody on the back end is playing the same coverage that the corner thinks is being played. I can't explain that because it has gotten to the point that it is beyond belief that it is happening with the frequency that it occurs.

    If Butler is indeed behind all these failures, something drastic needs to be done. If that means Tomlin takes over himself, or Bradley gets bumped up, or place next radical move here, etc..

    If Tomlin's fingerprints are on this current debacle and his ideas are being implemented on the field at his direction, ownership needs to step in and force a move to have someone else take control of that side of the ball. Yes, I believe it is that serious. When you have the two highest offensive point totals that resulted in home losses in the history of the franchise happening in the last two games, that tends to get people's attention.

    We'll see what happens next. This can't continue much longer before a drastic move has to be made.
    Last edited by pczach; 09-17-2018 at 08:31 PM.

  2. #62
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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    IMO, if Tomlin doesn't replace that sorry Punter this week, he's not serious about making changes to bring a different result. That guy is woeful and that shouldn't be lost in that mess of a defensive performance. Changing Punters is a fairly simple NFL move.
    I would say this about Dupree, I have never seen a worse player at setting the edge, or being even remotely close to making a play than this guy. Go back and watch the Jags game, he was out of position so many times, simply standing still would have literally been more productive because he took himself out of so many plays it was ridiculous. Same for the KC game. I am a JH fan, and thought his antics were stupid, but he would literally be an upgrade if he showed up game day and put on a jersey to play. No he isnít the answer, but my point is we have wasted enough on Dupree, give ANYONE else on the roster a chance to make some plays. Chickillo has more impact in his 5-10? Snaps than Dupree had all night. Also, this might show the team they are serious about winning, do your damn job or sit down for someone else who will!

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Heís also won games with his decisions.
    But never with those kind of decisions.

  4. #64
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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Follow me on Twitter @Dwinsgames

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    It is a process versus results combined with an excuses don't explain and explanations don't excuse cliche. What do I mean? I'll try and be brief - certainly I will fail.

    1. The hole about 20-30 yards downfield between the outside CB and the safety will be there anytime you play Cover-2 or something related to it. No one cares when the result is good. When the QB hits that hole, everyone freaks out. Same process (Cover-2) different results and people go bonkers.

    2. LBs on TEs down the seam. If you want to play base, it is going to happen unless you get exotic. The Chiefs and other teams that can throw or run out of base (particularly when your RB is as flexible as Hunt) puts teams in a devils bargain. Stay base and they motion out empty set and force you to either single an outside WR or try and have Bostic carry the TE. Go sub-package and they motion everyone in tight and try and punch you in the mouth up the middle. Again, the result was bad. But what is the alternative process? Here we can at least begin to talk about these Quarter and Dollar packages that are supposedly out there? We won't know if they make a difference until we start to see them.

    3. OLBs on wideouts. Fundamental process to the 3-4 zone blitz. If you put the Qb on his back, no one cares. When you fail to do that and they complete a pass against it, the howls of protest begin. So what is more important to you, the process or the result? Meaning if the process is broken than it is likely coaching. If the result is the problem, then we have to look at individual player performance with a finer lens. So basically either you feel that a shift away from a 3-4 zone blitz basis for the defense or there has to be better players/execution. Either is a good answer, but they are very different.

    4. These games hinge on such little things. Take this sequence. Boz makes the field goal. Then on 3rd down, Edmunds pins Hunt against the sideline and makes the tackle. KC takes the field goal. Instead, Edmunds missed the tackle. A couple inches on the kick and a better tackle and Pittsburgh gains 4 points in that swing. What happens from there? No idea. But in both cases the process was sound. Boz from 49 is a reasonable expectation and trying to deal with Hunt on the perimeter with a safety sized DB is not wholly crazy.

    Now these are just a few. However, this is balanced by there being two primary problems that remain incredibly difficult to parse out as fans. What were the intended play calls and coverages versus what actually happened? On at least one TD, Burns (I think) looked pissed that he didn't have help to the inside from at least one of the safeties. Now that looks terrible on TV and Twitter. But we have no idea what really went wrong or right because we don't know the call. The second is that there is consistent talk of adjustments in tactics by using new schemes or personnel groupings yet, in the highlight and game cut-ups I've been able to find I see a lot of 2 ILB on tape. Now is that fear of what I mentioned above? Guys not being ready? Or coaches saying one thing and doing another? Again, something we will never know the answer to.

    What's my point? There is plenty of bad/concerning stuff to go around, but to just run around and totally meltdown and argue that everything about how this football team goes about its business is flawed is more than a bit silly.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Array title="hawaiiansteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> hawaiiansteeler's Avatar

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    Tony Dungy: ďIím a former Pittsburgh defensive player. Iím a former Pittsburgh defensive coach. I donít like what Iím seeing from that defense. Itís bad. Missed tackle after missed tackle, blown coverages, guys running wide open, no discipline on defense."
    yeah, that sums it up pretty well...

  7. #67
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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    I fall under the defend Tomlin crowd. I have always felt he was questioned and doubted by fans far before any real criticism was even reasonable.

    There are definitely some things happening with the team right now that need to be addressed and fixed immediately. There are some legit questions. I just get so sick of some of the same people that questioned him after he won a Super Bowl, went to another, and rebuilt a roster without having a losing season. I just always hate when people make claims for decades on a person until it becomes truth. It doesn't mean they were correct all along. It just means that they hated long enough for a down cycle to occur that they try to use to vindicate all the stupid shit they have said and accusations they have made over the last 11 years.

    I have some questions myself over what I am seeing with this team. I think there are some tough questions to be asked, and there better be some good answers and some good solutions pretty soon. I don't, however, believe in knee-jerk reactions that call for beheading a man that has done his job pretty well for a long time.

    I'm not close enough to the situation to know everything I need to know to assign blame or to offer solutions. I am still seeing a defense that literally doesn't know what they're doing on far too many plays, particularly in coverage. There are far too many receivers left completely uncovered or having players releasing receivers to the next level, but nobody on the back end is playing the same coverage that the corner thinks is being played. I can't explain that because it has gotten to the point that it is beyond belief that it is happening with the frequency that it occurs.

    If Butler is indeed behind all these failures, something drastic needs to be done. If that means Tomlin takes over himself, or Bradley gets bumped up, or place next radical move here, etc..

    If Tomlin's fingerprints are on this current debacle and his ideas are being implemented on the field at his direction, ownership needs to step in and force a move to have someone else take control of that side of the ball. Yes, I believe it is that serious. When you have the two highest offensive point totals that resulted in home losses in the history of the franchise happening in the last two games, that tends to get people's attention.

    We'll see what happens next. This can't continue much longer before a drastic move has to be made.
    Iím not for firing Tomlin. Not at all.

    Butler, his clock is ticking.

    Danny Smith, should be fired. He shouldíve been let go before LeBeau was. His units continue to under perform, make stupid mistakes, take penalties that are unnecessary and itís game in and game out.

    Hereís the thing though, no matter what, no matter how bad they do, the front office isnít going to fire any of these clowns during the season...thatís just not their style. If it were to happen, it would be after the season.




  8. #68
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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    This is our identity in defense since Butler is our DC.

    We can question the talent, but at the same time, when a QB has 6 TD against us and did not impress me more than that in this game since every receiver was open in this game, it's a major problem for this defense.

  9. #69
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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?


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