When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

[DesertSteel]

General question: when does a HC get blame or credit? Some blame Tomlin for the Browns tie, but he wasn’t the one turning the ball over. On the other hand, would we give him credit if the players executed? On those same grounds, wouldn’t we say it was all the players and their performance? I realize we can talk about game plan, but all plans look good when the players perform well.

Of course, decisions at crunch time play a part in blame/credit (red flags, timeouts, substitutions, etc.). But how do you assign blame or credit to a HC?

[polamalubeast]

I do not blame Tomlin for the tie game against the Browns ... This one is on Ben ...

But when you're a defensive coach and you lose 45-42 against a defensive team ... ouch!

For the credit,an example .... Doug Peterson last year ... What a job he did with so many injuries and his playcalling and gameplan was amazing in the super bowl (not just the trick play at the end of the first half).

[Mojouw]

Head Coaches Credit For:
Teams that don't quit regardless of score or mounting injuries.
Gameplans/approaches that make sense given the strengths and weakness of a team
Devising an overall plan for the franchise and sticking to it. This is the "I need these types of players - now lets go get them" thing.
Providing a structure where each coach, personnel person, and player understands their role and responsibility.
Taking responsibility for all failures (even when not warranted) and distributing the credit for all success (again even if not warranted). Any good "boss" should do this. Most don't.


Head Coach Blame For:
Cycling through plans in a seemingly random manner -- "We can't start our rookie QB, he isn't ready. After one week, he is totally ready!"
Switching schemes and therefore roster priorities each off-season. "We're a man coverage team!" "We run the ball." "No, wait we play zone defense and pass the ball to our TEs".
Teams that don't play hard the whole game. I don't mean the stuff talked about here. I mean teams that get down 2 scores and the body language is all slumped over on the bench with towels over their heads and no one is talking about how to fix it. I've seen Tomlin led teams struggle, but never do this.
Seeing failure or struggles and doing nothing to correct it. No change in line-up or scheme or tactics to correct a deficit. Like when Garrett let his back-up LT get ripped for 6 sacks a season or so ago and just kept running the kid out there with no help.

Dunno. That's just my initial reaction.

[st33lersguy]

I think in a team sport such as football, it's up to the coaching to implement the proper system and get the team functioning as one cohesive unit. Why is some teams that look good on paper crash and burn while Bellichick takes spare parts every year and turns the Patriots into consistent winners? Therefore I think the coaching needs to be given a fair portion of credit and blame. Bad coaching can cause a talented team to underachieve, meanwhile, a less talented team can overachieve with coaching. I think Tomlin needs to be given his proper credit for the Super Bowl 43 win (In the past I have tried to minimize his role in that and I was wrong), he got the team functioning as one to help win and helped spawn the Harrison turn by having players practice blocking after an INT. As for last year, he definitely needs blame, a team with 10 pro bowlers on the roster did not go as far as they should have, and that is on Tomlin and the rest of the coaches

[Fire Goodell]

head coach gets no credit but all the blame, that's just how it goes

[Moose]

I agree st33lersguy with ya'. I think the coach(es) get both, credit and blame. First of all, you have to have game plan and preparedness for EVERY game and team you play- coaches to instruct and players to perform, then you need the right player to institute the job, which are the fault of coaches....right blocker, punt returner, cornerback coverage, etc.. Game plan definitely on the coaches. Lack of running game against a bad run blocking team...coaches plays calling. To me the game is on both shoulders...of course there will be times when you have the right player in the spot-but that player has a bad game and can't do what is called for....then that's on the coaches to pull the player and put in another to do whatever to give you the best chance to win ( like changing pitchers, designator hitter, pinch runner, etc...). So, In my opinion, the coaches get BOTH, credit for some things in game and blame for some things in a game. If the team seems to get into a rut, then you need the coaches to get into some asses for the motivation installation. Same as recognizing when a celebration penalty on a TD or a tackle is hurtful during a close game, then pulling that player aside for some ass chewing. Just my opinion.

[stillers4me]

[DesertSteel]

Is managing noise even part of the HC's job description? Certainly, it is for college HC's, but what about the NFL?

[cold-hard-steel]

Is managing noise even part of the HC's job description? Certainly, it is for college HC's, but what about the NFL?

According to "ancient astronaut theorists" the answer is yes.

[Craic]

Is managing noise even part of the HC's job description? Certainly, it is for college HC's, but what about the NFL?

As for managing the noise, the answer to that question is yes, and no. In one respect, he is responsible for managing the noise that surrounds the locker room; is this player upset, is that player causing problems on the field or in the locker room, and so on. In the other respect, he isn't responsible for managing players like college HCs because these are adult men. They are at a full-time job and once they clock out, they are free to do almost anything they want just like anyone else at a full-time position. So, would your manager have the responsibility of monitoring your twitter or Snapchat or Facebook accounts? No. Is he responsible for your contract dispute with HR? No. He is only responsible for what goes on at the office and at any office-sponsored events. The same is true of a head coach.

[Craic]

Head coaches, IMO, should get blamed for anything until there's a consistent pattern over two or three years that can be traced to him. The same is true for credit except in those areas, both good and bad, where it is obviously the coaches fault, such as choosing to bench a player or making a decision to go for it or to punt. IMO, he shouldn't get blamed for anything that happens on the field in one game outside of that. I want to see patterns before I claim it's coaching issue. So, for instance, we've seen problems with communication on defense. We know in the first half of Tomlin's time here there weren't any problems. We also know Lebeau was here and we had several veterans. In the second half, those problems have crept up. Lebeau has left, the veterans are gone, so there's an issue that is Tomlin's to address along with his new defensive coordinator. With the continuing changes at personal and the injury of the defensive playcaller last year, there are mitigating circumstances. However, if it continues much longer, then it begins to be Tomlin's fault because ultimately, he has to take the reigns and fix it. But, he can't undercut his DC or his DC will lose credibility in the locker room, and that is how you lose a football team. That is why I give a HC a couple of years to work through things, because unless the entire system is broken from top to bottom, the last thing you want is a head coach making massive changes to the way an organization runs, and anytime he steps in and corrects a DC, that's exactly what happens.

The other side of that is asking if a team had the right game plan for their personnel and the defensed against whom they were playing. Both of those elements have to be asked as well. For instance, we all wanted to see man coverage against the Patriots*, but every time they shifted into it, they got absolutely burned because they didn't have the personnel at the time. So, they've gone out in the last couple of drafts and drafted the right guys to play man coverage when they have to. When we play the Pats* this year, we'll see whether the HC has done right by the team.

Finally, I think the credit/blame comes from the overall team record during his tenor. One of the reasons I hold Tomlin in such high regard is because he is the first coach I've seen that has held a team at or above .500 during a rebuilding cycle without cheating (Ahem, Pats*).

[Born2Steel]

When a coach has a winning record in the NFL after 10 years he gets credit for being a good coach. When fans think he should have won more he gets the blame. Pretty simple really.

[DesertSteel]

I think that Tomlin is a top 5 coach. What area do you think he has improved the most as a HC and where does he still need to improve? Unlike Hawkman's opinion about this being another Fire Tomlin thread, I'd like to think we can objectively discuss the pros/cons of his tenure and give him the credit he's earned, while also realizing there's still some work to be done.

- - - Updated - - -

AREAS TO IMPROVE: I think his coaching staff at times has been suspect - holding on too long to a coach who's not working out. Butler is getting there... and some position coaches have already burnt that bridge. I'd like to see Butler moved this year if the D doesn't produce.

[Born2Steel]

I think that Tomlin is a top 5 coach. What area do you think he has improved the most as a HC and where does he still need to improve? Unlike Hawkman's opinion about this being another Fire Tomlin thread, I'd like to think we can objectively discuss the pros/cons of his tenure and give him the credit he's earned, while also realizing there's still some work to be done.

- - - Updated - - -

AREAS TO IMPROVE: I think his coaching staff at times has been suspect - holding on too long to a coach who's not working out. Butler is getting there... and some position coaches have already burnt that bridge. I'd like to see Butler moved this year if the D doesn't produce.

I disagree with you on Butler. Last season was when he lost his LBs. This year we are trying something new with the defense. The staples on this defense are still above par in talent and execution. Every time you change coordinators you start over to an extent.

I have no idea how to tell Tomlin what he needs to work on. Do you want a Bellichick/Saban type personality here? I would rather have the coach that celebrates with his players. That may just be me though.

[86WARD]

I have no idea how to tell Tomlin what he needs to work on. Do you want a Bellichick/Saban type personality here? I would rather have the coach that celebrates with his players. That may just be me though.

Tomlin is a good Coach. He makes the hard decisions, he makes some ballsy ones. I like that in a Coach. He also makes some questionable and absent minded decisions as well but all coaches do that. The thing that really bugs me about Tomlin is his lack of in game discipline and His stubbornness in regards To personnel use...mainly with kick and punt returners.

[DesertSteel]

I disagree with you on Butler. Last season was when he lost his LBs. This year we are trying something new with the defense. The staples on this defense are still above par in talent and execution. Every time you change coordinators you start over to an extent.

I have no idea how to tell Tomlin what he needs to work on. Do you want a Bellichick/Saban type personality here? I would rather have the coach that celebrates with his players. That may just be me though.

I really don’t think it matters - players coach or dictator type. Both have won and both can be taken to extreme.

[polamalubeast]

I disagree with you on Butler. Last season was when he lost his LBs. This year we are trying something new with the defense. The staples on this defense are still above par in talent and execution. Every time you change coordinators you start over to an extent.

I have no idea how to tell Tomlin what he needs to work on. Do you want a Bellichick/Saban type personality here? I would rather have the coach that celebrates with his players. That may just be me though.

The problem with Butler is that our defense was dysfunctional last year

I've never seen a defense make so much mistake because of a lack of communication or something like that...Kizer and Hundley had big games against us because of that ...No excuses for that

And we must not be afraid of change .... I mean, the Broncos won the super bowl in 2015 in the first year of Wade Phillips as DC and their defense won the super bowl by themselves.

It's just with the steelers, it takes too much time to develop a unit under Tomlin...It was the O-line for the first half of Tomlin's tenure, now it's the defense,especially the secondary.

It took too long for Tomlin to understand that the zone is no longer working in the NFL ....

[43Hitman]

The problem with Butler is that our defense was dysfunctional last year

I've never seen a defense make so much mistake because of a lack of communication or something like that...Kizer and Hundley had big games against us because of that ...No excuses for that

And we must not be afraid of change .... I mean, the Broncos won the super bowl in 2015 in the first year of Wade Phillips as DC and their defense won the super bowl by themselves.

It's just with the steelers, it takes too much time to develop a unit under Tomlin...It was the O-line for the first half of Tomlin's tenure, now it's the defense,especially the secondary.

It took too long for Tomlin to understand that the zone is no longer working in the NFL ....

One thing I think you're forgetting here is that Tomlin rebuilt the o-line and defense with out ever having a losing season. Is there another coach that has done that?

[polamalubeast]

One thing I think you're forgetting here is that Tomlin rebuilt the o-line and defense with out ever having a losing season. Is there another coach that has done that?

The steelers have been the majority of the time, one of the most talented teams in the NFL during its tenure except for 2-3 seasons....Kevin Colbert and Ben Roethlisberger deserve more of the credit for that

To not have a losing season .... if the steelers finish 8-7-1 this year, would that be a successful season?

[86WARD]

When half the players on Defense are running one play and the other half is running another play and the miscommunication continues throughout the season, that falls on the Coordinator and Coach.

When a Special Teams unit commits the same penalties week in and week out and does not improve year after year in certain aspects of the game, that falls on the Coordinator and Coach.

[Steeldude]

It seems to me that if the Steelers lose fans say it is the fault of the players. If the Steelers win they say it's because of Tomlin. In most cases it's the fault of both sides.

[polamalubeast]

The last 3 years of Coughlin was not the same roster that the years the giants won the super bowl....The bad drafts of Jerry Reese has been a killer for the giants in the last few years.Coughlin also had a year when Eli had a QB rating of 69.4 with 27 interceptions!

Look, Tomlin is a good coach, it's just that I do not consider him a great one for now .... His 2 best coaching jobs were in 2010 and 2015.

[pczach]

The last 3 years of Coughlin was not the same roster that the years the giants won the super bowl....The bad drafts of Jerry Reese has been a killer for the giants in the last few years.Coughlin also had a year when Eli had a QB rating of 69.4 with 27 interceptions!

Look, Tomlin is a good coach, it's just that I do not consider him a great one for now .... His 2 best coaching jobs were in 2010 and 2015.

I just don't consider Coughlin to be a great coach. He had waaaaaay too many bad seasons for me to consider him a great coach. You just can't have that many horrible seasons and be considered great. If he wasn't coaching in a pathetic conference, his teams may not have even made the playoffs the years he won the Super Bowl.

Here's his coaching career: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...es/CougTo0.htm

He had a ton of talent on most of those rosters after his first season with the Giants, and his teams severely underachieved most years. If you want to dismiss the last three years, I get it....but it's still on him. Tomlin wouldn't get that pass if he went 19-29 over a three season stretch if Pee Wee Herman was the GM.



As for Tomlin, you are entitled to think that, but rebuilding a roster and not having a losing season is unheard of in the NFL.

I am not saying he is Vince Lombardi. He has much more to do and he has some things he needs to improve on, but he is a very good coach in my opinion.

What he does from here in the coming years will define him in the minds of most people. If he never wins another championship, he may not be considered a great coach. If he wins another Super Bowl, I don't see how anyone can say he isn't a great coach with his won/loss record and his longevity.

I'm hoping he wins a few more.

[Born2Steel]

Coughlin wasted Eli. That makes him a bad coach in my book. He won 2 SBs so he's also a great coach. Hmmm some good some bad. Sounds like a football coach.

[Mojouw]

Tom Coughlin is a terrible coach. Most over rated SB winning coach, non Barry Switzer division.

As to TOmlin, I find it funny that every other fan base and most pundits regard Tomlin as a very good to excellent coach and would gladly have him walking their sidelines. Yet STeelers fans seem in a hurry to get rid of him.

The thing that gets lost in all this is how well Tomlin manages people. Read about how Matt Patricia has already lost the Deteroit Lions one week into his first season. He alienated veterans and none of the players are buying into his system. In contrast, Tomlin walked into a veteran locker-from and seized control while getting the guys to buy into his system. Was it seamless, no but one of the better transitions from a long-time popular coach to a new guy.

I mean the coach of this team could’ve been Mularkey, WHisenhunt, or Grimm. We now know those would’ve been really poor choices.

[polamalubeast]

Tom Coughlin is a terrible coach. Most over rated SB winning coach, non Barry Switzer division.

As to TOmlin, I find it funny that every other fan base and most pundits regard Tomlin as a very good to excellent coach and would gladly have him walking their sidelines. Yet STeelers fans seem in a hurry to get rid of him.

The thing that gets lost in all this is how well Tomlin manages people. Read about how Matt Patricia has already lost the Deteroit Lions one week into his first season. He alienated veterans and none of the players are buying into his system. In contrast, Tomlin walked into a veteran locker-from and seized control while getting the guys to buy into his system. Was it seamless, no but one of the better transitions from a long-time popular coach to a new guy.

I mean the coach of this team could’ve been Mularkey, WHisenhunt, or Grimm. We now know those would’ve been really poor choices.

Or Doug Peterson


Yes, Tomlin has his strengths, but also his weaknesses .... like the defense has often been dysfunctional since Dick Lebeau left.2014, our defense was bad, but at least they were not dysfunctional.

If Coughlin is a horrible coach, I do not know what to say .... I mean, Coughlin has so many upset playoffs win in his resume that's amazing

[Mojouw]

Or Doug Peterson


Yes, Tomlin has his strengths, but also his weaknesses .... like the defense has often been dysfunctional since Dick Lebeau left.2014, our defense was bad, but at least they were not dysfunctional.

If Coughlin is a horrible coach, I do not know what to say .... I mean, Coughlin has so many upset playoffs win in his resume that's amazing

No. Pederson was not among the candidates that Tomlin upset to win the HC job.

The defense has not been dysfunctional. Please watch more bad NFL teams to see true dysfunction. The defense occasionally blows assignments. Mostly related to the same one or two players. Tomlin and his various HC also did not stubbornly refuse to play man coverages out of some preference for zone. They simply lacked the players to consistently show that package. They have worked diligently over the past 3 off seasons to correct that.

Coughlin won 2 SBs by getting hot in the playoffs and having the Giants upset a few teams. The rest of the time his teams wildly underachieved and often looked lost and rudderless. He is way over rated because he is an “old school” guy that fans and players alike love. I bet he is a wonderful guy. He just is not an innovative or very good football coach. His teams rarely overcame adversity or distractions. Frequently lost to a string of inferior teams. Basically, every last thing that people, yourself included, are banging on Tomlin for. But Coughlin keeps getting brought up as this great example. I guess because he has a rep for being a hard ass or something.

[polamalubeast]

No. Pederson was not among the candidates that Tomlin upset to win the HC job.

The defense has not been dysfunctional. Please watch more bad NFL teams to see true dysfunction. The defense occasionally blows assignments. Mostly related to the same one or two players. Tomlin and his various HC also did not stubbornly refuse to play man coverages out of some preference for zone. They simply lacked the players to consistently show that package. They have worked diligently over the past 3 off seasons to correct that.

Coughlin won 2 SBs by getting hot in the playoffs and having the Giants upset a few teams. The rest of the time his teams wildly underachieved and often looked lost and rudderless. He is way over rated because he is an “old school” guy that fans and players alike love. I bet he is a wonderful guy. He just is not an innovative or very good football coach. His teams rarely overcame adversity or distractions. Frequently lost to a string of inferior teams. Basically, every last thing that people, yourself included, are banging on Tomlin for. But Coughlin keeps getting brought up as this great example. I guess because he has a rep for being a hard ass or something.

Not true...before the 2007 and 2011 season, Coughlin was on the hot seat .... if it's not adversity, I do not know what's it .... 2011, the giants also had a 4 games losing streak and in 2007, the giants bounced back in both times Eli Manning had a awful bad game.

Also, do not forget his success with the jaguars ..... When Coughlin is with the Jaguars, they were credible like last year.

[43Hitman]

Not true...before the 2007 and 2011 season, Coughlin was on the hot seat .... if it's not adversity, I do not know what's it .... 2011, the giants also had a 4 games losing streak and in 2007, the giants bounced back in both times Eli Manning had a awful bad game.

Also, do not forget his success with the jaguars ..... When Coughlin is with the Jaguars, they were credible like last year.

Lets see if they can repeat that success now that they have a target on their backs. It's easy to sneak up on teams when they don't expect those kinds of performances. Its a whole different ball game when everyone knows that you're coming.

[cubanstogie]

No. Pederson was not among the candidates that Tomlin upset to win the HC job.

The defense has not been dysfunctional. Please watch more bad NFL teams to see true dysfunction. The defense occasionally blows assignments. Mostly related to the same one or two players. Tomlin and his various HC also did not stubbornly refuse to play man coverages out of some preference for zone. They simply lacked the players to consistently show that package. They have worked diligently over the past 3 off seasons to correct that.

Coughlin won 2 SBs by getting hot in the playoffs and having the Giants upset a few teams. The rest of the time his teams wildly underachieved and often looked lost and rudderless. He is way over rated because he is an “old school” guy that fans and players alike love. I bet he is a wonderful guy. He just is not an innovative or very good football coach. His teams rarely overcame adversity or distractions. Frequently lost to a string of inferior teams. Basically, every last thing that people, yourself included, are banging on Tomlin for. But Coughlin keeps getting brought up as this great example. I guess because he has a rep for being a hard ass or something.

the ultimate goal is to win SB's though. Kind of reminds me of Ryan saying all Chris Carter does is catch touch downs.