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Thread: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Coughlin wasted Eli. That makes him a bad coach in my book. He won 2 SBs so he's also a great coach. Hmmm some good some bad. Sounds like a football coach.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Tom Coughlin is a terrible coach. Most over rated SB winning coach, non Barry Switzer division.

    As to TOmlin, I find it funny that every other fan base and most pundits regard Tomlin as a very good to excellent coach and would gladly have him walking their sidelines. Yet STeelers fans seem in a hurry to get rid of him.

    The thing that gets lost in all this is how well Tomlin manages people. Read about how Matt Patricia has already lost the Deteroit Lions one week into his first season. He alienated veterans and none of the players are buying into his system. In contrast, Tomlin walked into a veteran locker-from and seized control while getting the guys to buy into his system. Was it seamless, no but one of the better transitions from a long-time popular coach to a new guy.

    I mean the coach of this team could’ve been Mularkey, WHisenhunt, or Grimm. We now know those would’ve been really poor choices.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Tom Coughlin is a terrible coach. Most over rated SB winning coach, non Barry Switzer division.

    As to TOmlin, I find it funny that every other fan base and most pundits regard Tomlin as a very good to excellent coach and would gladly have him walking their sidelines. Yet STeelers fans seem in a hurry to get rid of him.

    The thing that gets lost in all this is how well Tomlin manages people. Read about how Matt Patricia has already lost the Deteroit Lions one week into his first season. He alienated veterans and none of the players are buying into his system. In contrast, Tomlin walked into a veteran locker-from and seized control while getting the guys to buy into his system. Was it seamless, no but one of the better transitions from a long-time popular coach to a new guy.

    I mean the coach of this team could’ve been Mularkey, WHisenhunt, or Grimm. We now know those would’ve been really poor choices.

    Or Doug Peterson


    Yes, Tomlin has his strengths, but also his weaknesses .... like the defense has often been dysfunctional since Dick Lebeau left.2014, our defense was bad, but at least they were not dysfunctional.

    If Coughlin is a horrible coach, I do not know what to say .... I mean, Coughlin has so many upset playoffs win in his resume that's amazing

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Or Doug Peterson


    Yes, Tomlin has his strengths, but also his weaknesses .... like the defense has often been dysfunctional since Dick Lebeau left.2014, our defense was bad, but at least they were not dysfunctional.

    If Coughlin is a horrible coach, I do not know what to say .... I mean, Coughlin has so many upset playoffs win in his resume that's amazing
    No. Pederson was not among the candidates that Tomlin upset to win the HC job.

    The defense has not been dysfunctional. Please watch more bad NFL teams to see true dysfunction. The defense occasionally blows assignments. Mostly related to the same one or two players. Tomlin and his various HC also did not stubbornly refuse to play man coverages out of some preference for zone. They simply lacked the players to consistently show that package. They have worked diligently over the past 3 off seasons to correct that.

    Coughlin won 2 SBs by getting hot in the playoffs and having the Giants upset a few teams. The rest of the time his teams wildly underachieved and often looked lost and rudderless. He is way over rated because he is an “old school” guy that fans and players alike love. I bet he is a wonderful guy. He just is not an innovative or very good football coach. His teams rarely overcame adversity or distractions. Frequently lost to a string of inferior teams. Basically, every last thing that people, yourself included, are banging on Tomlin for. But Coughlin keeps getting brought up as this great example. I guess because he has a rep for being a hard ass or something.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    No. Pederson was not among the candidates that Tomlin upset to win the HC job.

    The defense has not been dysfunctional. Please watch more bad NFL teams to see true dysfunction. The defense occasionally blows assignments. Mostly related to the same one or two players. Tomlin and his various HC also did not stubbornly refuse to play man coverages out of some preference for zone. They simply lacked the players to consistently show that package. They have worked diligently over the past 3 off seasons to correct that.

    Coughlin won 2 SBs by getting hot in the playoffs and having the Giants upset a few teams. The rest of the time his teams wildly underachieved and often looked lost and rudderless. He is way over rated because he is an “old school” guy that fans and players alike love. I bet he is a wonderful guy. He just is not an innovative or very good football coach. His teams rarely overcame adversity or distractions. Frequently lost to a string of inferior teams. Basically, every last thing that people, yourself included, are banging on Tomlin for. But Coughlin keeps getting brought up as this great example. I guess because he has a rep for being a hard ass or something.

    Not true...before the 2007 and 2011 season, Coughlin was on the hot seat .... if it's not adversity, I do not know what's it .... 2011, the giants also had a 4 games losing streak and in 2007, the giants bounced back in both times Eli Manning had a awful bad game.

    Also, do not forget his success with the jaguars ..... When Coughlin is with the Jaguars, they were credible like last year.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    No. Pederson was not among the candidates that Tomlin upset to win the HC job.

    The defense has not been dysfunctional. Please watch more bad NFL teams to see true dysfunction. The defense occasionally blows assignments. Mostly related to the same one or two players. Tomlin and his various HC also did not stubbornly refuse to play man coverages out of some preference for zone. They simply lacked the players to consistently show that package. They have worked diligently over the past 3 off seasons to correct that.

    Coughlin won 2 SBs by getting hot in the playoffs and having the Giants upset a few teams. The rest of the time his teams wildly underachieved and often looked lost and rudderless. He is way over rated because he is an “old school” guy that fans and players alike love. I bet he is a wonderful guy. He just is not an innovative or very good football coach. His teams rarely overcame adversity or distractions. Frequently lost to a string of inferior teams. Basically, every last thing that people, yourself included, are banging on Tomlin for. But Coughlin keeps getting brought up as this great example. I guess because he has a rep for being a hard ass or something.
    the ultimate goal is to win SB's though. Kind of reminds me of Ryan saying all Chris Carter does is catch touch downs.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Not true...before the 2007 and 2011 season, Coughlin was on the hot seat .... if it's not adversity, I do not know what's it .... 2011, the giants also had a 4 games losing streak and in 2007, the giants bounced back in both times Eli Manning had a awful bad game.

    Also, do not forget his success with the jaguars ..... When Coughlin is with the Jaguars, they were credible like last year.
    Lets see if they can repeat that success now that they have a target on their backs. It's easy to sneak up on teams when they don't expect those kinds of performances. Its a whole different ball game when everyone knows that you're coming.


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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Fine. Tom Coughlin is a great coach. He never wasted stacked rosters in NY.

    How can a coach be great for guiding a team back from a 4 game losing streak that his crappy coaching helped create?

    Tom Coughlin's teams missed the playoffs multiple times during Eli Manning's prime. Isn't missing or exiting the playoffs early during a franchise QB's tenure the cardinal sin everyone wants to flog Tomlin for? But Coughlin gets a pass on the same?

    Tom Coughlin is NOT a good football coach. His record in both Jacksonville and NY was consistently mediocre -- https://www.pro-football-reference.c...es/CougTo0.htm

    In 20 years of head coaching he only has 7 years where he won 10 or more games and 10 years where he won more than 8 games. And he has 10 years where he went 8-8 or worse. I mean that is essentially the definition of average.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    If that's not it a dysfunctional defense, I do not know what is!

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    I think it's definitely TIME for Tomlin to take blame for this hot mess.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    That losing season is right around the corner. This team sucks and the offense which is supposed to be the strength looks under coached and confused

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    It's getting really hard for me to stay supportive of Tomlin...

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    In all fairness, I have to throw some blame at Tomlin this week. "When does a HC get blame"? When a team performs poorly in all 3 phases. When they commit dumb penalties in all 3 phases. When they display poor fundamentals in all 3 phases.

    I'm not suggesting we should grab up the torches and pitchforks and run him out of town, but he does deserve *some* blame for this loss due to bad coaching. How much of the blame is debateable, but at least some.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    The same people blame Tomlin, the same people defend Tomlin, sounds like politics on CNN, FOX, MSNBC etc.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    The same people blame Tomlin, the same people defend Tomlin, sounds like politics on CNN, FOX, MSNBC etc.
    Hardly. Those news outlets bash Trump all the time (except for Fox).

    Doesn't it show some objectivity to be able to both criticize and praise, as appropriate?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by GoSlash27 View Post
    In all fairness, I have to throw some blame at Tomlin this week. "When does a HC get blame"? When a team performs poorly in all 3 phases. When they commit dumb penalties in all 3 phases. When they display poor fundamentals in all 3 phases.

    I'm not suggesting we should grab up the torches and pitchforks and run him out of town, but he does deserve *some* blame for this loss due to bad coaching. How much of the blame is debateable, but at least some.
    They didn't perform poorly on Offense. 37 points should win a game.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Hardly. Those news outlets bash Trump all the time (except for Fox).

    Doesn't it show some objectivity to be able to both criticize and praise, as appropriate?

    - - - Updated - - -


    They didn't perform poorly on Offense. 37 points should win a game.
    Sure but who does?

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    They didn't perform poorly on Offense. 37 points should win a game.
    Sure they did. They committed penalties they shouldn't have committed, which put them behind the chains. They blew several drives (particularly the first 3) and wound up in a 21 point hole. They had to go one dimensional and never developed a run game, which nearly cost us the game twice.

    If we had jumped out to the early lead, or even just scored one more TD, we would've won this game.

    37 points *should be* enough to win a game... Except when it's not. It wasn't enough today and we had ample opportunity to score more. Poor play on the O shares some of the blame here. I will grant you that the defense (especially the secondary) is most at fault, but that doesn't absolve the offense and special teams from all responsibility.

    We need to be better in all 3 phases.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Sure but who does?
    I do honestly try.
    "You've heard people brag about 'being in the zone'. They don't know what the Hell being in the zone is about. I played in the NFL for 15 years and I was only in the zone that one time." - "Mean" Joe Greene on the 1974 playoff victory over Oakland

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Sure but who does?
    I always try to be objective, however I am human so sometimes I get emotional.


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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Based on the limited portions of the game I saw, there really is only one real question. We spent the entire off season being repeatedly told by this coaching staff that they had innovative packages and schemes to get multiple DBs on the field. But I still see Bostic and VW trying to carry Kelce down the seam. Huh?

    I have no problem with OLBs occasionally having WRs in coverage. You line up and take your shots. If they identify and pick it up, then you can get burnt. BUt I do have a problem with the total lack of innovative thinking - especially since it was long talked about.

    I wonder if Burnett is more hurt than anyone is letting on?

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    The system right now is poor at best, especially defensively. Steelers will never make a Super Bowl, unless they fire Keith Butler and they replace him with a much better coach

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    I’m sorry but this team ended last season in a train wreck and has started the new season in a train wreck. I blame the coaches for that.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Put this in the Butler Thread but it applies here as well:

    At this stage, this season is just basically players not talented enough and coaches not wise enough and neither can cover up for the other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    IMO, if Tomlin doesn't replace that sorry Punter this week, he's not serious about making changes to bring a different result. That guy is woeful and that shouldn't be lost in that mess of a defensive performance. Changing Punters is a fairly simple NFL move.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Danny Smith needs to go

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Tomlin numerous times blew our chances at winning with:
    -not going for the onside kick
    -not kicking a field goal to preserve time (when we need 10 or 11 points)
    -not calling timeouts in time
    -not going for it on 4th down

    As for Berry, I really don't think he's that bad.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    He’s also won games with his decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    He’s also won games with his decisions.
    Those don't count. The Steelers were supposed to win those games anyways.

    Tomlin only causes loses. If he would just get the heck out of the way, the Steelers would win.

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Those don't count. The Steelers were supposed to win those games anyways.

    Tomlin only causes loses. If he would just get the heck out of the way, the Steelers would win.


    I think it is just understood that the team wins in spite of him when they win, and overcome his substandard coaching.

    When they lose...…..baby it's on!

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    I think it is just understood that the team wins in spite of him when they win, and overcome his substandard coaching.

    When they lose...…..baby it's on!
    That’s a real thing though...I said it in another thread...Good Players can cover up Questionable Coaching and Good Coaching can cover up Less Talented Players. Unfortunately, to date, there is Questionable Coaching and Less Talented Players and that’s not a good mix...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: When does a Head Coach get Blame/Credit?

    "In football when you lose no amount of explanation will suffice but if you win none is necessary".

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