Big Ben: The double edged sword

[StillCurtains]

Hello All!

Here we are! The start of yet another new season. This is yet the start of another season since 2009, when we have had the "sky is the limit" moniker next to the Steelers offense. At that time we had guys such as: Willie Parker, Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace and Heath Miller to name a few.

The following season in 2010, We have had Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall, Hines Ward, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Emmanuel Sanders and Heath Miller. The moniker of being one of the NFL's top offenses with "the sky is the limit" continued to be touted.

We are now 8 and 9 years removed, from when we first began to hear this being said about the offense. It also needs to be mentioned that it has been said every year since 2009. We have had 2 offensive coordinators from 2009 to 2017 in Arians and Haley. Despite the offensive talent, neither one has been able to field an offense that scored 30ppg.

Both coordinators have done well between the 20's compiling impressive yardage, but have struggled in point production in the Red Zone. 3rd down percentage has never been very high either. The Steelers over the past 5 years have been a team that has struggled with overall discipline and defensive consistency and communication.

I have a great appreciation for what Ben has done for this organization. He has a great drive to win, winning us 2 Superbowls and our first one since the 1979 Season. We could not have won those 2 titles without him. However, it's becoming more apparent that we also can't get over the hump with him.

There is a reason why Ben is not considered a top 5 quarterback. He's never been a film guy. He's never been one to spend extra time with his other targets besides his favorite one. He's never been a thinker's man quarterback. He's never played the game in inches or high percentages. He doesn't think in terms of throwing a 3 yard slant, on 3rd and 2 in the 1st quarter to get a first down. He has no realization that such a play so early in the game, can play such a huge role in winning decisively.

Ben is a sandlot guy that needs the huge play. There is no patience to his game. Ben will go deep on 3rd and 2 instead of settling for the high percentage, minimal yardage needed. This is what separates him from Brady, Rodgers and Brees. They play the game in inches and high percentages. They are not sucked in to making the big play to win games.

This is the reason that their teams usually win decisively, whether at home, or on the road. Have we had issues with discipline as well as our defense over the last several years? Yes we have! However, it doesn't negate the fact that on occasion, the defense has been good enough as it was yesterday.

I think it's time that many of us come to realize, that while we can't win without Ben, he also makes it very difficult to get over the hump with him. If we want to continue to wonder why the Steelers struggle with inferior competition, ending up in constant dogfights, the evidence of that was shown yesterday.

If we're honest, it's not the only time that we have witnessed to it.

[polamalubeast]

Ben is considered a top 5 QB by the league .... just stop...

And great timing to make this thread

[Mojouw]

Did you watch Rodgers last night? I don't think he completed a single high percentage throw in the entire second half.

What separates Brady and Rodgers from everyone else is that they give you the same performance week in and week out with almost no variation.

Ben can do what he did yesterday or throw 6 TDs and go 500+ yards. Those other guys have the occasional clunker as well, but Ben has more. That's his problem. He has 2-3 games per season where he kinda just "checks out".

As for being dependent on the "big play" there are many guys wearing ugly gold jackets that were dependent on the big play.

I mean you want a "by the book" QB? Fine. Then the Steelers lose the 2008 SB. Because only Ben and a few other guys let that 2nd throw to Santonio rip.

[StillCurtains]

Did you watch Rodgers last night? I don't think he completed a single high percentage throw in the entire second half.

What separates Brady and Rodgers from everyone else is that they give you the same performance week in and week out with almost no variation.

Ben can do what he did yesterday or throw 6 TDs and go 500+ yards. Those other guys have the occasional clunker as well, but Ben has more. That's his problem. He has 2-3 games per season where he kinda just "checks out".

As for being dependent on the "big play" there are many guys wearing ugly gold jackets that were dependent on the big play.

I mean you want a "by the book" QB? Fine. Then the Steelers lose the 2008 SB. Because only Ben and a few other guys let that 2nd throw to Santonio rip.

I have stated how we can’t win without him. We also can’t get over the hump with him. This isn’t about being a by the book QB! Ben is an aggressive QB! A go for the juggler QB!

The truth is, guys like Brady and Brees are aggressive as well! They go for the kill while not turning the ball over. They are aggressive while playing in the confines of the game to help their teams win. They know turnovers are killers. They use intelligence by looking at the game in simplicity.

They know that when the game calls for playing by inches and percentages, you do it. The understand that the simplicity of possession extends their aggressive gameplan, as well as decreases the opposition’s chances of winning without possession.

There are times when defenses are not good enough to stop explosive plays, which result in 4-play 80 yard drives for TD’s. There are other times when defenses are too stout, which forces 12 play 80 yard drives for TD’s.

The problem is Ben doesn’t have the patience to recognize the latter, which puts us in dog fights. The objective is to get 7, no matter how short or long your possession is.

Anytime you come away with 7 puts pressure on the opposition. When Ben realizes that it always doesn’t have to happen in 5 plays or less, the less we will have to continue to watch the games in doubt, with 2 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter..

[Mojouw]

I have stated how we can’t win without him. We also can’t get over the hump with him. This isn’t about being a by the book QB! Ben is an aggressive QB! A go for the juggler QB!

The truth is, guys like Brady and Brees are aggressive as well! They go for the kill while not turning the ball over. They are aggressive while playing in the confines of the game to help their teams win. They know turnovers are killers. They use intelligence by looking at the game in simplicity.

They know that when the game calls for playing by inches and percentages, you do it. The understand that the simplicity of possession extends their aggressive gameplan, as well as decreases the opposition’s chances of winning without possession.

There are times when defenses are not good enough to stop explosive plays, which result in 4-play 80 yard drives for TD’s. There are other times when defenses are too stout, which forces 12 play 80 yard drives for TD’s.

The problem is Ben doesn’t have the patience to recognize the latter, which puts us in dog fights. The objective is to get 7, no matter how short or long your possession is.

Anytime you come away with 7 puts pressure on the opposition. When Ben realizes that it always doesn’t have to happen in 5 plays or less, the less we will have to continue to watch the games in doubt, with 2 minutes remaining in the 4th quarter..

So the play where Rodgers heaves it from the far hash to the near corner of the endzone against pretty decent coverage? https://packerswire.usatoday.com/201...st-td-of-2018/ -- yeah that was safe throw.

Or the one where this happened? https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-...rs--121691853/

And that was just last night. The QB you describing exists. His name is Matt Ryan. That's what you are describing. Has the tools to make the big play but also takes the checkdown, etc etc.

You start your franchise with prime Matt Ryan. I'll start mine with prime Ben R. Wonder who wins more?

[StillCurtains]

So the play where Rodgers heaves it from the far hash to the near corner of the endzone against pretty decent coverage? https://packerswire.usatoday.com/201...st-td-of-2018/ -- yeah that was safe throw.

Or the one where this happened? https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-...rs--121691853/

And that was just last night. The QB you describing exists. His name is Matt Ryan. That's what you are describing. Has the tools to make the big play but also takes the checkdown, etc etc.

You start your franchise with prime Matt Ryan. I'll start mine with prime Ben R. Wonder who wins more?

I’m not looking for Matt Ryan!

Also, what you seen last night is what I would expect from ANY QB with a will to win!
That is the type of performances we have seen from Ben on many occassions!

Why did we see this with such high frequency with Rodgers last night?
THEY WERE DOWN 20-0!!!!!

When you are down so big, MORE risks are taken!!!
Bigger plays are attempted to get back in the game!
You lay it all on the line to gain momentum!

You’re at a point where you’re playing with nothing to lose! There is a HUGE difference!

[Fire Goodell]

He's Brett Favre. Will make throws that will make people go "Wow!" a lot of times. But 2-3 times a year he has those WTF games.

[GoSlash27]

(stuff)

Or... Sometimes he just has a bad day

Best,
-Slashy

[Butch]

I talked to a Chiefs fan who would kill to have a QB like Ben. He hated Alex Smith because he stated that he never takes chances. Taking chances is the way you win games in the NFL.

Peyton studies film and does great as long as things go to script but when things fall apart so does Peyton's game. IMHO Ben's sandlot play style is harder to game plan for than Peyton's by the book.

Shady Brady didn't study to get better his team flat out cheated. Not hard to beat any defense when you have a microphone still working when it's supposed to cut off.

Ben had a horrible day yesterday, it happens. I trust in Ben and I still believe that he will take us to at least one more SuperBowl win before all is said and done. I damn sure aint jumpin' ship because he had a bad day.

[StillCurtains]

I talked to a Chiefs fan who would kill to have a QB like Ben. He hated Alex Smith because he stated that he never takes chances. Taking chances is the way you win games in the NFL.

Peyton studies film and does great as long as things go to script but when things fall apart so does Peyton's game. IMHO Ben's sandlot play style is harder to game plan for than Peyton's by the book.

Shady Brady didn't study to get better his team flat out cheated. Not hard to beat any defense when you have a microphone still working when it's supposed to cut off.

Ben had a horrible day yesterday, it happens. I trust in Ben and I still believe that he will take us to at least one more SuperBowl win before all is said and done. I damn sure aint jumpin' ship because he had a bad day.

I’m not asking Ben to be conservative. The problem is his aggressiveness borders on the lines of carelessness. You have to know when to turn your aggression into decisiveness and precision at the right times in the game. You have to know at what point in the game when you keep the play alive for a 28 yard gain, and understanding there are times where getting the necessary 2 yards for a first is paramount to secure a win.

In regards to Brady, I can’t stand him just as anyone else can’t, but if you judge his play on cheating, you don’t know what you’re watching. He is an aggressive QB as well. He also knows important points in the game to take the short yardage to retain possession. Once you retain possession, you go back to being aggressive while using clock and scoring 7.

That’s the winning formula. Make your possessions count by execution and scoring 7. It makes it almost impossible to lose. The opposing team not only has less time, but they have to match your possession with 7 of their own.

[Butch]

I’m not asking Ben to be conservative. The problem is his aggressiveness borders on the lines of carelessness. You have to know when to turn your aggression into decisiveness and precision at the right times in the game. You have to know at what point in the game when you keep the play alive for a 28 yard gain, and understanding there are times where getting the necessary 2 yards for a first is paramount to secure a win.

In regards to Brady, I can’t stand him just as anyone else can’t, but if you judge his play on cheating, you don’t know what you’re watching. He is an aggressive QB as well. He also knows important points in the game to take the short yardage to retain possession. Once you retain possession, you go back to being aggressive while using clock and scoring 7.

That’s the winning formula. Make your possessions count by execution and scoring 7. It makes it almost impossible to lose. The opposing team not only has less time, but they have to match your possession with 7 of their own.

No I know what I am watching. You can keep your head in the sand and say it aint so but shady brady would be average at best without cheating. He and his team got away with cheating early in his career and he has reaped the rewards ever since.

You say you can't stand brady as anyone else while dogging Ben, but you are lying to yourself. You obviously revere him more highly than I do. Maybe it was just a bad choice of words on your part? IDK I would rather lose with Ben than win with shady brady any day of the week.

[DesertSteel]

No I know what I am watching. You can keep your head in the sand and say it aint so but shady brady would be average at best without cheating. He and his team got away with cheating early in his career and he has reaped the rewards ever since.

You say you can't stand brady as anyone else while dogging Ben, but you are lying to yourself. You obviously revere him more highly than I do. Maybe it was just a bad choice of words on your part? IDK I would rather lose with Ben than win with shady brady any day of the week.

Really?? Not me. Not for a minute. I'd take Brady's 5 Super Bowls with the Steelers over Ben's 2 without even thinking about it. Ben hasn't been a choir boy you know.

[Butch]

Really?? Not me. Not for a minute. I'd take Brady's 5 Super Bowls with the Steelers over Ben's 2 without even thinking about it. Ben hasn't been a choir boy you know.

He didn't cheat

[polamalubeast]

Roethlisberger is a gunslinger

Of course, games like that can happen when you're a gunslinger

The important thing is that it does not happen too often and it does not happen at the worst possible time...The thing I do not want from a QB is to be too conservative like Alex Smith.

Rodgers, Brady and Brees are the only ones who are better than Ben.So you're crazy if you think Roethlisberger is not in the top 5 ...

You would not have made this thread if Ben would have been average yesterday ...

And how many QB make this play?

[Butch]

Nate Washington was Great with us and ok with Tennessee. Randle El was Great with Ben and disappeared in Washington. I would argue that Plex was better with us than he was with the gmen. Santonio disappeared when he left, as did Wallace. My point...Ben has had one helluva supporting cast to hold him up...or have they?

[GBMelBlount]

I feel pretty good right now, knowing that the reason for our TIE was a less than stellar performance in ridiculous weather by our HOF QB.

Otherwise, our team showed they have the elements of a Superbowl winner imo.

Give them a month or two to gel and only a few more hurricanes and I think we will be fine.

18-0-1.

[teegre]

18-0-1.

[Crow-Magnon]

I'm a Ravens fan, so take this for what it's worth.

Since 2000, what other QB's (besides Tom Brady) have been in, and won, more than one SB? Eli Manning, Peyton Manning...and Ben Roethlisberger.

'Nuff said.

[polamalubeast]

I'm a Ravens fan, so take this for what it's worth.

Since 2000, what other QB's (besides Tom Brady) have been in, and won, more than one SB? Eli Manning, Peyton Manning...and Ben Roethlisberger.

'Nuff said.

And in the regular season,Ben has 135-63-1 after 199 starts!

[Fire Goodell]

I'm a Ravens fan, so take this for what it's worth.

Since 2000, what other QB's (besides Tom Brady) have been in, and won, more than one SB? Eli Manning, Peyton Manning...and Ben Roethlisberger.

'Nuff said.

Congrats to you guys, ravens looked tough yesterday. Btw what ever happened to JonM (Other ravens fans who was always active on our forum)

[Crow-Magnon]

Congrats to you guys, ravens looked tough yesterday. Btw what ever happened to JonM (Other ravens fans who was always active on our forum)

Don't know about JonM. Hooefully he's still around.

Ravens looked awesome yesterday on all fronts. Offense, defense and ST. But, it's only one game. Looking at the retooling and through camp and the preseason, I had an inkling they may be a contender. But I've seen a lot of contenders in Weeks 1-5 that faded bad down the stretch. One game does not a season make.

[teegre]

Congrats to you guys, ravens looked tough yesterday. Btw what ever happened to JonM (Other ravens fans who was always active on our forum)

I text Jon every day.

[st33lersguy]

4 QBs have won 100 games in their first 150 starts. 3 of them are the 3 QB in NFL history that have won 4 Super Bowls, the 4th is Ben.

Also after the Steelers were backed up by a holding penalty in Super Bowl 43, Ben's sandlot style of play prevented a sack inside his own 5 with less than 3 minutes left. And yes he is a top 5 QB in this league, and a surefire Hall of Famer, and the biggest reason the Steelers have made the postseason the past 4 years

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah (alleged) rape isn't nearly as bad as deflating the air out of some footballs.

alleged rape from who, the woman at Lake Tahoe who later admitted to LYING about it?

[DesertSteel]

Long live homerism.

[Butch]

Long live homerism.

LOL litterally,

Oh man you burned us with that one

[fansince'76]

Gonna be a long week...

[86WARD]

I’m a Rodgers fan and respect what he did on Monday, but let’s be honest. He threw a 10 yard pass to Randall Cobb. Cobb did all the work. That was way more Cobb than anything to do with Rodgers. Rodgers didn’t win that game. Cobb did.

[steel striker]

I’m a Rodgers fan and respect what he did on Monday, but let’s be honest. He threw a 10 yard pass to Randall Cobb. Cobb did all the work. That was way more Cobb than anything to do with Rodgers. Rodgers didn’t win that game. Cobb did.

Bingo and, the media slurps him and, Brady so much it makes me sick!

[SteelersCanadian]

I’m a Rodgers fan and respect what he did on Monday, but let’s be honest. He threw a 10 yard pass to Randall Cobb. Cobb did all the work. That was way more Cobb than anything to do with Rodgers. Rodgers didn’t win that game. Cobb did.

He hit Cobb on one leg while scrambling to his off-side in a rapidly closing window against an athletic coverage linebacker.

He did a hell'uva lot more than flip a duck to Cobb 10-yards off the line of scrimmage.

[86WARD]

He hit Cobb on one leg while scrambling to his off-side in a rapidly closing window against an athletic coverage linebacker.

He did a hell'uva lot more than flip a duck to Cobb 10-yards off the line of scrimmage.

Lol. He wasn’t scrambling. Two hops to the left isn’t scrambling and he pretty much threw a ten yard dart to Cobb who ran 65 yards and made the moves to score. The pocket/window was far, far, far from closing in on him. It’s more a Cobb victory than a Rodgers one and I’m probably a bigger Rodgers fan than most here. Cobb was able to make the move and use his blocks to get in the end zone.

Rodgers is as much a drama queen as Ben is.