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Thread: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

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    How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Pittsburgh Steelers: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    by Noah Strackbein

    There’s no denying the Pittsburgh Steelers’ defense has come a long way in the last five years. But if they continue not to meet expectations, someone needs to pay for it.

    Pittsburgh is a city that loves their football. It’s a family atmosphere for the Steelers. Whether you’re a player, coach or fan, you are a part of a living legacy that has been in the making for generations.

    The team isn’t one to bounce from coach to coach, looking for the right man. That’s how you end up with three head coaches over the last 39 years. But that’s only because these men met the level of play they were brought in to obtain.

    Six Super Bowl rings wasn’t handed to anyone. Whether you were/are a fan of the coach or not, taking home a Lombardi is nearly impossible. Explaining why Pittsburgh has only had three men leading the charge for as long as most can remember.

    But defense still wins championships.

    to read rest of article:

    https://stillcurtain.com/2018/07/02/...-butlers-seat/

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Should be red hot. If that defense doesn't improve every defensive coach from 2017 that wasn't fired this offseason should be gone next offseason barring significant improvements

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Butler should've been let go after the playoff loss, but like Lebeau after the Tebow debacle in 2011, he's kept on board. While Blake Bortles is a legitimate NFL QB unlike Tebow, he's nothing special.

    I don't have particularly high expectations for the Defense this year. All I can ask for it is not to be hot garbage.

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Butler should've been let go after the playoff loss, but like Lebeau after the Tebow debacle in 2011, he's kept on board. While Blake Bortles is a legitimate NFL QB unlike Tebow, he's nothing special.

    I don't have particularly high expectations for the Defense this year. All I can ask for it is not to be hot garbage.
    At least in 2011, LeBeau oversaw a defense that was no. 1 in scoring defense and was still one of the top units that keyed numerous low scoring wins that season. 2017, Butler's defense got shredded by Brett Hundley, the duo of a way past his prime Flacco and Alex Collins, and DeShone Kizer before surrendering over 40 points to Bortles

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Butlers seat should be so hot he should be walking around with smoke coming off his ass every time he stands up , but I am not so sure he is ...

    that said I am on record of not liking the hire to start with and nothing he has done since getting the job has changed my mind one iota , in fact it only reinforces it
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Butler's seat hot? It's as cool as the other side of the pillow...

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    I just had a brief moment where I thought he was already fired and this was a bumped thread...lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    I just had a brief moment where I thought he was already fired and this was a bumped thread...lol.
    I would have fired him right after the Jacksonville game.

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    It should have been hotter than Haley's

    "Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead." - Butch

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by vasteeler View Post
    It should have been hotter than Haley's
    I think Ben was fed up with Haley and Tomlin had no choice but to fire him.

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Haley wasn’t renewed because of Ben. That’s probably undisputed by people around the organization.

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Butler got a pass since he lost Shazier.

    I expect the Steelers to win the SuperBowl, because the offense (finally) gels. More on topic, I see Tuitt & Watt making huge leaps; ergo, the defense will be “good enough” to win a ring.

  13. #13

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    I think he gets a two-year window. This year, they're going to try the safety-heavy defense, and then next year when they either have Shazier back or have cap room due to his salary being over, they will use the money to fill what holes they think the defense has left. If they don't perform well at the end of next year (not this coming season, but the following season) then I think he's gone.


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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    I think Craic pretty much hit the nail
    On the head in Rogers’s to Butlers tenure. Unless a major collapse occurs, I think that’s how it plays out as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Not as hot as Tomlins should be

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neversatisfied View Post
    Not as hot as Tomlins should be
    LMAO.
    I still don't get this. Tomlin oversaw the rebuilding an offensive line that was in shambles thanks to Russ Grimm not replacing aging players with good rookies. He oversaw a draft that brought in two LBs that took our defense from good to great. He oversaw a complete overhall of the WRs two or three times, and now has possibility the most talented corp yet. Oh, and let us not forget a RB that has him on target to be, statistically, a great RB in the game (Again, statistically, as in 17th in yards per game rushing for all RBs in their first five years, 25th all time in yards for receptions and yards per target, and pretty much in the top fifty for all running backs ever to play the game for any stat in the top five years, and this on an offense with the number one WR and top 5-8 QB). And, while rebuilding all of that, has never had a losing season. Sure, he's broken even a couple of times, but never had a losing season.

    I just don't get it.


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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    LMAO.
    I still don't get this. Tomlin oversaw the rebuilding an offensive line that was in shambles thanks to Russ Grimm not replacing aging players with good rookies. He oversaw a draft that brought in two LBs that took our defense from good to great. He oversaw a complete overhall of the WRs two or three times, and now has possibility the most talented corp yet. Oh, and let us not forget a RB that has him on target to be, statistically, a great RB in the game (Again, statistically, as in 17th in yards per game rushing for all RBs in their first five years, 25th all time in yards for receptions and yards per target, and pretty much in the top fifty for all running backs ever to play the game for any stat in the top five years, and this on an offense with the number one WR and top 5-8 QB). And, while rebuilding all of that, has never had a losing season. Sure, he's broken even a couple of times, but never had a losing season.

    I just don't get it.
    Me either....but then again, he is “Neversatisfied”.

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    LMAO.
    I still don't get this. Tomlin oversaw the rebuilding an offensive line that was in shambles thanks to Russ Grimm not replacing aging players with good rookies. He oversaw a draft that brought in two LBs that took our defense from good to great. He oversaw a complete overhall of the WRs two or three times, and now has possibility the most talented corp yet. Oh, and let us not forget a RB that has him on target to be, statistically, a great RB in the game (Again, statistically, as in 17th in yards per game rushing for all RBs in their first five years, 25th all time in yards for receptions and yards per target, and pretty much in the top fifty for all running backs ever to play the game for any stat in the top five years, and this on an offense with the number one WR and top 5-8 QB). And, while rebuilding all of that, has never had a losing season. Sure, he's broken even a couple of times, but never had a losing season.

    I just don't get it.
    Simple. People have zero patience and demand instant (and constant) gratification and Tomlin simply isn't the "flavor of the week" - Doug Pederson currently is (on a side note, it will be interesting to see how the Eagles do now that they have the bull's eye on their backs as well as a first place schedule instead of a fourth place schedule).

    On the AFC side, and thanks to recent head-to-head matchups, to somewhat of a lesser extent the "flavor of the week" would be Doug Marrone. (And of course, all the top-5 draft picks the Jaguars have had in recent seasons are naturally discounted as well - if only Tomlin/Colbert had the luxury of a top-5 draft pick for about half a decade or so running...)

    And before them, it was Ron Rivera and Pete Carroll.

    To borrow a shopworn Tomlinism, it is what it is.

  19. #19

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Simple. People have zero patience and demand instant (and constant) gratification and Tomlin simply isn't the "flavor of the week" - Doug Pederson currently is (on a side note, it will be interesting to see how the Eagles do now that they have the bull's eye on their backs as well as a first place schedule instead of a fourth place schedule).

    On the AFC side, and thanks to recent head-to-head matchups, to somewhat of a lesser extent the "flavor of the week" would be Doug Marrone. (And of course, all the top-5 draft picks the Jaguars have had in recent seasons are naturally discounted as well - if only Tomlin/Colbert had the luxury of a top-5 draft pick for about half a decade or so running...)

    And before them, it was Ron Rivera and Pete Carroll.

    To borrow a shopworn Tomlinism, it is what it is.
    Sure makes me happy we have owners like the Rooneys rather than the ownership of teams like the Browns, Raiders, chiefs, Bucs, Redskins, and so on who change coaches more often than an SJW snowflake has to change soiled underwear at a gun range.


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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Man with a plan

    Saturday, Jul 07, 2018

    The objective for a defense that showed promise as last season progressed but eventually came unglued in the wake of inside linebacker Ryan Shazier’s season-ending injury in December is obvious:

    Be better than the Steelers were in their 45-42 playoff loss to Jacksonville in January.

    “We didn’t stop the run and we let ’em score too much,” defensive coordinator Keith Butler bluntly assessed during mandatory veteran minicamp.

    to read rest of article:

    https://www.steelers.com/news/man-with-a-plan

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?



    Butler’s seat is hot... but, not “Hansel” hot.

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post

    “We didn’t stop the run and we let ’em score too much,” defensive coordinator Keith Butler bluntly assessed during mandatory veteran minicamp.
    This is the kind of refreshing insight that tells me Butler is playing chess while all the other DCs are playing checkers!!

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Butler got a pass since he lost Shazier.

    .
    I agree, but somebody should be accountable for not upgrading Mike Mitchell earlier. The safety play was not varsity enough for a quality defense.

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    LMAO.
    I still don't get this. Tomlin oversaw the rebuilding an offensive line that was in shambles thanks to Russ Grimm not replacing aging players with good rookies. He oversaw a draft that brought in two LBs that took our defense from good to great. He oversaw a complete overhall of the WRs two or three times, and now has possibility the most talented corp yet. Oh, and let us not forget a RB that has him on target to be, statistically, a great RB in the game (Again, statistically, as in 17th in yards per game rushing for all RBs in their first five years, 25th all time in yards for receptions and yards per target, and pretty much in the top fifty for all running backs ever to play the game for any stat in the top five years, and this on an offense with the number one WR and top 5-8 QB). And, while rebuilding all of that, has never had a losing season. Sure, he's broken even a couple of times, but never had a losing season.

    I just don't get it.
    The defense was gashed often and it turns out Tomlin oversaw the defense last season not to mention his mediocre playoff record and how many years has it been since the Steelers have been to a Superbowl ( 10 years). Rumor has it that a Steeler minority owner felt the same as I and many others do.

  25. #25

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I agree, but somebody should be accountable for not upgrading Mike Mitchell earlier. The safety play was not varsity enough for a quality defense.
    I keep hearing that, but context just doesn't bear it out. Over the last two years, the problem has been cornerbacks. We focused on getting good ones in the draft, some worked, some didn't, some didn't even make the field. We traded for a CB, and it was a great trade. On top of that, we had a real need at LB because Jarvis Jones failed to produce, and his contract was coming due. So, we had to focus on LB as well last year. Amid all that change—a first or second year CB, a new CB last year traded to the team, another new safety, and new Linebacker last year, you wanted to add ANOTHER new safety? We already had communication problems.

    No, until last year, Mitchell's play, while not worth his salary, also didn't warrant artificially creating another hole in the roster that had to be filled, and filled with a veteran who would play for x amount of dollars per year.


  26. #26

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neversatisfied View Post
    The defense was gashed often and it turns out Tomlin oversaw the defense last season not to mention his mediocre playoff record and how many years has it been since the Steelers have been to a Superbowl ( 10 years). Rumor has it that a Steeler minority owner felt the same as I and many others do.
    Wait a second . . . mediocre? You DO realize that Tomlin has the eighth best playoff win percentage among all active coaches in the NFL, right? And, among those are Pete Carroll who was able to come in and draft several college players that he had personal knowledge of and Bill Belichick who, personally, I think doesn't belong in this list due to cheating. Then, look at the actual records. Harbaugh went to the playoffs each of his first five years. Missed a year, went again and lost in the second game, and has missed the playoffs for three straight years. Whisenhunt took his team to the playoffs only two times, and then went on three year bender that he carried over to Tennessee. Dan Quinn has only taken his teams to the playoffs twice. Sean Payton had a good run between 2009-2013, then didn't sniff the playoffs for three years.

    By comparison, Mike Tomlin has only missed the playoffs twice in a row once, and only three times since he started here. He's been to the AFCCG three times and won two of them. His teams have been in contention for the playoffs on the last weekend of the season virtually every year, and they now have perhaps the best set of CBs on the field since I don't know when (Ike was great but Gay struggled as a true CB. He played much better in the nickle and dime). Moreover, you say our defense got gashed. Fine. I agree. However, you DO remember the absolute disastrous mess on offense he was left with that took the first seven years to fix? The o line was falling apart, we had one good WR and one with a severe pot problem. Kind of funny that as soon as we fixed that, we moved over to work on the defense, and we've seen glimpses for the last two years of what could be, but then injury rears its head.

    Seriously, if a minority owner felt that way, I'm thankful he's not the majority owner. In fact, I'd rather they buy him at and send him on his way for even suggesting such foolishness.


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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I keep hearing that, but context just doesn't bear it out. Over the last two years, the problem has been cornerbacks. We focused on getting good ones in the draft, some worked, some didn't, some didn't even make the field. We traded for a CB, and it was a great trade. On top of that, we had a real need at LB because Jarvis Jones failed to produce, and his contract was coming due. So, we had to focus on LB as well last year. Amid all that change—a first or second year CB, a new CB last year traded to the team, another new safety, and new Linebacker last year, you wanted to add ANOTHER new safety? We already had communication problems.

    No, until last year, Mitchell's play, while not worth his salary, also didn't warrant artificially creating another hole in the roster that had to be filled, and filled with a veteran who would play for x amount of dollars per year.
    Mike Mitchell was a bottom 1/3 NFL safety, possibly in the bottom 20% of his peers. The fact that he doesn't seem to have landed on an NFL roster shows that nobody wants his lack of talented self on their team. A talented safety, or at least adequate safety can do a lot to support CB play in the pass game and Mitchell never did that.

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Wait a second . . . mediocre? You DO realize that Tomlin has the eighth best playoff win percentage among all active coaches in the NFL, right? And, among those are Pete Carroll who was able to come in and draft several college players that he had personal knowledge of and Bill Belichick who, personally, I think doesn't belong in this list due to cheating. Then, look at the actual records. Harbaugh went to the playoffs each of his first five years. Missed a year, went again and lost in the second game, and has missed the playoffs for three straight years. Whisenhunt took his team to the playoffs only two times, and then went on three year bender that he carried over to Tennessee. Dan Quinn has only taken his teams to the playoffs twice. Sean Payton had a good run between 2009-2013, then didn't sniff the playoffs for three years.

    By comparison, Mike Tomlin has only missed the playoffs twice in a row once, and only three times since he started here. He's been to the AFCCG three times and won two of them. His teams have been in contention for the playoffs on the last weekend of the season virtually every year, and they now have perhaps the best set of CBs on the field since I don't know when (Ike was great but Gay struggled as a true CB. He played much better in the nickle and dime). Moreover, you say our defense got gashed. Fine. I agree. However, you DO remember the absolute disastrous mess on offense he was left with that took the first seven years to fix? The o line was falling apart, we had one good WR and one with a severe pot problem. Kind of funny that as soon as we fixed that, we moved over to work on the defense, and we've seen glimpses for the last two years of what could be, but then injury rears its head.

    Seriously, if a minority owner felt that way, I'm thankful he's not the majority owner. In fact, I'd rather they buy him at and send him on his way for even suggesting such foolishness.

    C'mon.....sure he cheated and skirts the rules. But you cannot say all of his success is the result of cheating.
    Honestly, I think most of his success is related to how good a coach he is.
    I've learned it's very hard for hard core haters of Belichik to give him the credit he deserves.
    The guy knows football.

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    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by FrancoLambert View Post
    C'mon.....sure he cheated and skirts the rules. But you cannot say all of his success is the result of cheating.
    Honestly, I think most of his success is related to how good a coach he is.
    I've learned it's very hard for hard core haters of Belichik to give him the credit he deserves.
    The guy knows football.
    If that's the case, why cheat?

    "Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead." - Butch

  30. #30

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Mike Mitchell was a bottom 1/3 NFL safety, possibly in the bottom 20% of his peers. The fact that he doesn't seem to have landed on an NFL roster shows that nobody wants his lack of talented self on their team. A talented safety, or at least adequate safety can do a lot to support CB play in the pass game and Mitchell never did that.
    Not being on a team does not equate to lack of talent. Otherwise, you'd have to say the same for Dez Bryant, Eric Reid, even Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. All three of them still have the talent to be on an NFL roster even if it isn't first string. No, the fact he isn't on a roster has to do with age/money/team contributions. Moreover, while I'd agree with you that last year he suffered, my argument is that there was no reason BEFORE last year to get rid of him. So, last year, we see a drop off. In the offseason, he's gone. Sounds about right.

    And, yes, there was adrop. In 2015 and 16, he had almost the same impact on the game (although 3 ints to 1 int in 16). He had 58 and then 55 tackles respectively, and 22 assists and nine passes defended both years.

    According to "Approximate value" from pro-football reference, both years equaled his best year before coming to the Steelers. Funny thing, that number puts him tied for seventh BEST for all safeties in 2016 and tenth best in 2015. Yeah, not the bottom third by any means. Heck, an NFL 1000 "scout" put together a ranking system for this year, including coverage, recovery, slot performance, tackling, and position value. Mitchel was ranked 27 out of 45 this year, which is still not bottom third. For 2015, Pro football focus also slotted every Safety (twitter post) and Mitchell was 22, just after Charles Woodson and Kam Chancellor and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. That's 22nd of 86, or in the top third and barely missing the top quarter.

    So, no, every nonbiased stat site I find supports what my eyes told me. He was an above average safety that fell to average to sub-average because of age (and possible injury). However, he wasn't a bottom third talent by any means, not even last year.


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