Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 87

Thread: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,763

    Re: How hot is Keith Butlerís seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Not being on a team does not equate to lack of talent. Otherwise, you'd have to say the same for Dez Bryant, Eric Reid, even Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie. All three of them still have the talent to be on an NFL roster even if it isn't first string. No, the fact he isn't on a roster has to do with age/money/team contributions. Moreover, while I'd agree with you that last year he suffered, my argument is that there was no reason BEFORE last year to get rid of him. So, last year, we see a drop off. In the offseason, he's gone. Sounds about right.

    And, yes, there was adrop. In 2015 and 16, he had almost the same impact on the game (although 3 ints to 1 int in 16). He had 58 and then 55 tackles respectively, and 22 assists and nine passes defended both years.

    According to "Approximate value" from pro-football reference, both years equaled his best year before coming to the Steelers. Funny thing, that number puts him tied for seventh BEST for all safeties in 2016 and tenth best in 2015. Yeah, not the bottom third by any means. Heck, an NFL 1000 "scout" put together a ranking system for this year, including coverage, recovery, slot performance, tackling, and position value. Mitchel was ranked 27 out of 45 this year, which is still not bottom third. For 2015, Pro football focus also slotted every Safety (twitter post) and Mitchell was 22, just after Charles Woodson and Kam Chancellor and Ha Ha Clinton-Dix. That's 22nd of 86, or in the top third and barely missing the top quarter.

    So, no, every nonbiased stat site I find supports what my eyes told me. He was an above average safety that fell to average to sub-average because of age (and possible injury). However, he wasn't a bottom third talent by any means, not even last year.
    I'm happy that you liked the level of play of Mike Mitchell as a Steeler. I see that he was less impactful than former Steelers Chris Hope or Brent Alexander. IMO, whoever accepted that level of mediocrity should be on a hot seat.

  2. #32

    Re: How hot is Keith Butlerís seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I'm happy that you liked the level of play of Mike Mitchell as a Steeler. I see that he was less impactful than former Steelers Chris Hope or Brent Alexander. IMO, whoever accepted that level of mediocrity should be on a hot seat.
    It's like you didn't even read my post. Top third. Almost top quarter. Fell off to just below top half this year and then was released. Several other positions more important to fill at the time.

    Nope, let's ignore all of that. Mitchell was the entire problem! We should be expecting SB level performance this year, right? If not FIRE SOMEONE!
    ďLife is a series of decisions you make that add up to your reputation. Do the right thing.Ē
    óDan Rooney (1932-2017)

  3. #33
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Posts
    6,958

    Re: How hot is Keith Butlerís seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neversatisfied View Post
    The defense was gashed often and it turns out Tomlin oversaw the defense last season not to mention his mediocre playoff record and how many years has it been since the Steelers have been to a Superbowl ( 10 years). Rumor has it that a Steeler minority owner felt the same as I and many others do.
    The Steelers went to a SuperBowl in the 2010 season... so, that’s 8 years.

    Since then, Tomlin has rebuilt a defense, while never having a losing record (which means picking in the second half of R1). He was an AB step-out against the Dolphins and a crappy/controversial FG (Chiefs-Chargers) from going to the playoffs two more times during that rebuild.

    The Steelers have had Ben, AB, & Bell play in a playoff game just ONCE in their careers. Despite that, here’s who the Ateelers have lost to in the playoffs:

    2010: lost to the SuperBowl champions
    2011: puke fest
    2014: lost to division rivals
    2015: lost to the SuperBowl champions
    2016: lost to the SuperBowl champions
    2017: lost to the Jags (who have our number)

  4. #34
    Senior Member Array title="GBMelBlount has a reputation beyond repute"> GBMelBlount's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Gender
    Posts
    8,343

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    On a scale from 1 to Gisele, I would give him a 7.

    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

  5. #35
    Up The IRONS! GO STEELERS Array title="Iron Steeler is a name known to all"> Iron Steeler's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Gender
    Posts
    1,728

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    No one fears our defense. To me as a Steeler fan that is a problem.

  6. #36

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Steeler View Post
    No one fears our defense. To me as a Steeler fan that is a problem.
    I don't like it, but I'm come to understand that defense, in fact, does not win Superbowls. A good defensehelps you get to a SB, perhaps, but it doesn't win one. Not anymore.
    ďLife is a series of decisions you make that add up to your reputation. Do the right thing.Ē
    óDan Rooney (1932-2017)

  7. #37
    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Arizona
    Gender
    Posts
    2,879

    Re: How hot is Keith Butlerís seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    2017: lost to the Jags (who have our number)
    No way am I ready to concede that!

  8. #38
    Senior Member Array title="Edman has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,435

    Re: How hot is Keith Butlerís seat?

    2017: lost to the Jags (who have our number)
    2-3 in the past five meetings against the Steelers.

    Before last year, The Jaguars have not beaten the Steelers since 2007. That's not exactly "having a teams number". Jags have definitely grown into a formidable opponent however.

  9. #39
    Senior Member Array title="hawaiiansteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> hawaiiansteeler's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The Aloha State
    Gender
    Posts
    4,969

    Re: How hot is Keith Butlerís seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    2-3 in the past five meetings against the Steelers.

    Before last year, The Jaguars have not beaten the Steelers since 2007. That's not exactly "having a teams number". Jags have definitely grown into a formidable opponent however.
    Jags kicked our asses last year, their offensive line pretty much owned our front 7 last season.
    Last edited by hawaiiansteeler; 07-10-2018 at 07:41 PM.

  10. #40

    Re: How hot is Keith Butlerís seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    Jags kicked our asses last year, their offensive line pretty much owned our front 7 last season.
    Yep, but there's been years where the Raven's have beaten us both games and by considerably larger margins. Then, the next year, it's a different situation. IMO, our first loss to them was due to Ben's poor play and a RB and Line still getting used to each other. The second loss was due to having to patch up a major hole in the defense with the loss of Shazier and having a safety that had lost enough of his step that he limited how the defense could respond to the loss. Remember, once is a mistake, twice a coincidence. Three times a pattern. I won't put much stock into the losses last year as an overall pattern, yet.
    ďLife is a series of decisions you make that add up to your reputation. Do the right thing.Ē
    óDan Rooney (1932-2017)

  11. #41
    Senior Member Array title="Edman has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,435

    Re: How hot is Keith Butlerís seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    Jags kicked our asses last year, their offensive line pretty much owned our front 7 last season.
    The first loss was Ben having one of the absolute worst games of his career, then came back and carved up their secondary.

    The second loss was untimely turnovers putting Pittsburgh in a hole early and having to play from behind all game on top of a holey Defense (that weeks prior was ripped apart by the Ravens, Packers, and Browns) that had its bottom fall out. Those early turnovers made all the difference in that game. "Sacksonville" could not stop the B's.

    Jacksonville did nothing otherworldly or special to beat the Steelers last year, they just won.

  12. #42
    Senior Member Array title="hawaiiansteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> hawaiiansteeler's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The Aloha State
    Gender
    Posts
    4,969

    Re: How hot is Keith Butlerís seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Jacksonville did nothing otherworldly or special to beat the Steelers last year, they just won.
    re-watch the 2nd game and note how the Jags' offensive line manhandled our front seven...

  13. #43
    Senior Member Array title="st33lersguy has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    10,799

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Jackassville won because Pittsburgh was looking ahead to new England. The first game I think they were looking ahead to then unbeaten Kansas city

  14. #44
    Senior Member Array title="hawaiiansteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> hawaiiansteeler's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    The Aloha State
    Gender
    Posts
    4,969

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Jackassville won because Pittsburgh was looking ahead to new England. The first game I think they were looking ahead to then unbeaten Kansas city
    if true, that falls on the coaching staff...

  15. #45
    Senior Member Array title="st33lersguy has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    10,799

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    if true, that falls on the coaching staff...
    Totally. A team with 10 pro bowlers playing in a paper thin conference, cant win a playoff game, and cant get past borderline draft bust Blake Bortles, it is on the coaches.

  16. #46
    Senior Member Array title="Edman has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,435

    Re: How hot is Keith Butlerís seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    re-watch the 2nd game and note how the Jags' offensive line manhandled our front seven...
    Again, nothing otherworldly or special. The dynamic duo of Joe Flacco and Alex Collins hung 38 on the Steelers Defense and Brett Hundley and the Packers torched them. Deshone Kizer shredded them as well in the last game. Even the Titans game hid some glaring problems. The issues where there the whole time, we just didn't want to see it. Some savvy posters on here saw the Jacksonville Playoff nightmare coming a mile away, but nobody listened.

    They will tell you watching the Steelers Defense last year could see some problems, even before and especially after they lost Shazier. The 2017 Defense hides behind some pretty statistics, but it was probably one of the worst Steelers D's in over a decade. Jacksonville simply capitalized on something that was already exposed and there all along, but many of us didn't want to see: The 2017 Steelers had a paper Defense that won 13 games in spite of it. They could barely stop anyone, the pass rush was near nonexistent despite the record sacks, hardly made any meaningful impact plays, and barely turned the ball over.

    Lo and behold, that's exactly what happened in the playoff game. The Steelers D could do none of those things. The 2015/16 Defense makes a play in that game that changes the tide, or at the very least, makes a stop when they need one.

    All the more reason why Butler should be on the hot seat.
    Last edited by Edman; 07-12-2018 at 05:27 PM.

  17. #47
    Senior Member Array title="Hawkman has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Gender
    Posts
    1,639

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    On a scale from 1 to Gisele, I would give him a 7.

    I have to wonder......do you think she cheats?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Jackassville won because Pittsburgh was looking ahead to new England. The first game I think they were looking ahead to then unbeaten Kansas city
    ......and your bases for that comment is...........what?

  18. #48
    Senior Member Array title="st33lersguy has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    10,799

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkman View Post
    I have to wonder......do you think she cheats?

    - - - Updated - - -



    ......and your bases for that comment is...........what?
    They were talking about playing New England in a playoff rematch ever since November, and you could see it in the performance not only in the playoff game but the regular season as well as they struggled mightily against numerous bad and average teams during the regular season and were bailed out by Ben, AB, and Boz. Regular season, Jacksonville was 2-2 and Kansas City, the upcoming game was undefeated. It was likely they didn't respect Jacksonville coming into that game and had more respect for Kansas City. Plus, it's not like the team doesn't have a tendency to gloss over teams that are inferior to them

  19. #49
    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,763

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    They were talking about playing New England in a playoff rematch ever since November, and you could see it in the performance not only in the playoff game but the regular season as well as they struggled mightily against numerous bad and average teams during the regular season and were bailed out by Ben, AB, and Boz. Regular season, Jacksonville was 2-2 and Kansas City, the upcoming game was undefeated. It was likely they didn't respect Jacksonville coming into that game and had more respect for Kansas City. Plus, it's not like the team doesn't have a tendency to gloss over teams that are inferior to them
    I don't think they looked past Jacksonville. I think if a team beats you in the regular season and dominates the LOS in that game, then you probably don't look past them in the playoffs.

    Defense and running game is a good formula to win in the playoffs, especially in outdoor games in January weather. Jags defense was better than Steelers, Jags run game was better than Steelers (or the Steelers run defense with Sean Spence at ILB was porous)

  20. #50
    Senior Member Array title="st33lersguy has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    10,799

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    I don't think they looked past Jacksonville. I think if a team beats you in the regular season and dominates the LOS in that game, then you probably don't look past them in the playoffs.

    Defense and running game is a good formula to win in the playoffs, especially in outdoor games in January weather. Jags defense was better than Steelers, Jags run game was better than Steelers (or the Steelers run defense with Sean Spence at ILB was porous)
    If they weren't, they did a very good job of hiding it considering how much they blathered about a rematch with New England since November

  21. #51
    Senior Member Array title="Edman has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,435

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    The Steelers didn't look past Jacksonville, they simply just weren't good enough (Defensively).

  22. #52
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Posts
    7,108

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Turnovers dude. Turnovers and forcing a few punts. That's all the defense has to do.

    All this moaning about the Jags playoff game. We everyone realizes that the Steelers D only needed to force one turnover or one more punt and the offense wins that game. Team was able to carve up one of the best all around defenses in the league like they weren't even there for almost the entire second half.

    This is what the Steelers need to be now. A runaway train on offense and a defense that provides the offense with the one or two extra possession s needed to win the game.

    For Mitchell and the rest it isn't so much a down to down thing. It is the lack of 3rd down stops and turnovers. Almost all of those came from Shazier and Watt. Until that changes, rest is just arguments about details.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  23. #53
    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,763

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    If they weren't, they did a very good job of hiding it considering how much they blathered about a rematch with New England since November
    Yup, and when the Steelers lost to the Colts in the regular season in 2005, they said "we will probably be seeing them again". Which the Steelers did see the Colts in the playoffs, on the way to winning SBXL. Just because some members of the team believed they would have to beat the champs to be the champs, it doesn't mean they looked past everybody else they played from week to week.

  24. #54
    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Arizona
    Gender
    Posts
    2,879

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    The Steelers didn't look past Jacksonville, they simply just weren't good enough (Defensively).
    Winner, winner!!

  25. #55
    One bad JuJu Array title="43Hitman has a reputation beyond repute"> 43Hitman's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Va
    Gender
    Posts
    6,518

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    If they weren't, they did a very good job of hiding it considering how much they blathered about a rematch with New England since November
    Ryan Shazier wasn't hurt in November either. We all know that had a huge difference in how the defense had to play.






  26. #56
    Senior Member Array title="st33lersguy has a reputation beyond repute">

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    10,799

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Obviously, the defense didn't play well enough, that is not out of the question, but just attributing the loss to Sean Spence playing instead of Shazier is an oversimplification. It's more than that. Blathering about playing New England was also a contributing factor. It not only gets them looking ahead to other games (evident in not just losing to Jacksonville but also barely beating numerous teams that missed the playoffs throughout the year), but it also emboldens the opposition and makes them want to play harder just to shut everyone up and prove doubters wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Yup, and when the Steelers lost to the Colts in the regular season in 2005, they said "we will probably be seeing them again". Which the Steelers did see the Colts in the playoffs, on the way to winning SBXL. Just because some members of the team believed they would have to beat the champs to be the champs, it doesn't mean they looked past everybody else they played from week to week.
    And when they lost to Cincinnati which dropped them to 7-5 and put them on the brink of playoff elimination, Cowher told his team to wipe the slate clean and that every game from that point on was a one game season. Cowher delivered the same message in 95 when the Steelers were 3-4 and they went on to make the Super Bowl

  27. #57
    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Gender
    Posts
    4,523

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    NFL teams don't overlook other NFL teams. It's not like CFB, the NFL is a job. You prepare the same each week. Some individual players may have been overly confident but the team prepared the same. The Jags simply played better than we did both games and they beat us.

    The defense must continue to improve. Same as every season. The offense must continue to produce. Same as every season. We have the personnel and coaches to win a lot of football games this year. But we will lose some. None of the losses will be due to lack of preparation or overlooking a team.

    I think our division will play out differently this season. I still believe we will repeat as champs. I think the Browns and Ravens improved, and the Bengals didn't improve this offseason. I'll actually predict(July) the division finishes, Steelers, Ravens, Browns, Bengals.

    Butler's seat is not 'hot' because that's not how the Steelers traditionally do things.(FUN FACT: Butler and Fichtner both ex-Memphis Tigers coaches)

  28. #58
    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    2,763

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    NFL teams don't overlook other NFL teams. It's not like CFB, the NFL is a job. You prepare the same each week. Some individual players may have been overly confident but the team prepared the same. The Jags simply played better than we did both games and they beat us.
    Agreed, thanks for the ….what does Teegre call it?.....Summation?

    As you say, the NFL isn't like college, nobody is scheduling Austin Peay for homecoming week. Every week is a difficult opponent and there are no easy wins in the NFL.

  29. #59
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Gender
    Posts
    7,108

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    I feel like we circle around the same issue a few times a year on here. Like others are saying, there are no easy wins in the NFL. Years ago there might have been. But the gap between the best team in the league and the worst is vanishingly small. Perhaps narrower than any other pro sport. The league has spent the last two decades tweaking things to ensure that is a reality.

    For me, I'm loathe to call for big changes to an organization that has been able to do what only a handful of others can-be playoff competitive year and year out. I've watched this team for the most of the last 30 years and I can't remember the last time the season started and I thought, "yeah. They have no shot." How many other fanbases can say that?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  30. #60
    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Arizona
    Gender
    Posts
    2,879

    Re: How hot is Keith Butler’s seat?

    What is the difference between OVERLOOKING a team and PLAYING DOWN to a team? While I'd agree for the most part that the latter doesn't happen, there's too many occurrences to believe that the latter doesn't happen.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •