How the Steelers plan for another late arrival by Le'Veon Bell

[st33lersguy]

Sucker Punch has won 3 Super Bowls in the past 4 years as part of a by-committee backfield.

Meanwhile Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson, RB Murderer, Adrian Peterson, LaDanian Tomlinson, Gale Sayers never even made it to the Super Bowl and collectively, those guys rarely sniffed Super Bowls. Walter Payton didn't enjoy any team related success either until the Bears legendary defense was built

[Mojouw]

No one is saying you cant win a super bowl without Leveon Bell. No one is saying that Bell needs to get paid a dumptruck of money or the team will crater.

All I am saying is that if you take 2000 yards from scrimmage away from the offense and replace it with roughly 1500 yards from scrimmage spread across say Conner and Samuels with less YAC and a moderate downgrade in blitz pick-up — then the teams chances of winning a SB have not improved. Nor have they likely stayed the same. They have taken a downturn. How much? Like I said, we will find out in 2019.

Plus everyone makes an implicit connection that less $$$ to a RB means roster changing moves elsewhere. Where? We just watched an entire off season cycle of player movement and I do not recall a single Ryan SHazier or prime level James Harrison linebacker changing teams.Unless anyone thinks that Anthony Hitchens and Trent Murphy were the missing puzzle pieces?

Maybe 4 players reach UFA each season that actually can change a team. I can not think of a single player in the past two seasons that paying Bell caused the Steelers to miss on. They went hard after Hightower and brought in Haden, McDonald, and Wilcox for like a combined 17 million or so.

All of this doesn’t really matter and next season will provide a stark answer to all of these questions because Bell is as good as gone. Mostly people are just finding ways to justify hating the guy because he is a total jackass.

It is like when Bonds left. Total jerk, but the team wasn’t better from a talent pov

[teegre]

a moderate downgrade in blitz pick-up

This is the part of playing RB that is commonly overlooked.

I read (or heard) a phenomenal stat (PFF???) that Bell had never missed a blocking assignment in his entire career.

[Mojouw]

This is the part of playing RB that is commonly overlooked.

I read (or heard) a phenomenal stat (PFF???) that Bell had never missed a blocking assignment in his entire career.

I'd believe it. It is one of the reasons that DWill and all the other RBs last few years can't get on the field. Bell is one of the best in the league at stoning a late rusher.


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[Craic]

How many QBs have been to the Super Bowl since Ben last went? There's the answer to your question.

"Same chance of winning" was my question. Since 2005, the QBs that have won outside of Ben are Peyton and Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Flacco, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, and Nick Foles. Peyton Manning is no longer playing. I doubt anyone here would argue Flacco or Foles is as good as Ben. So, that leaves us with four QBs.

But, let's go with your easier hurdle of getting to the SB. Now, we have the above list plus Hasselbeck, Grossman, Warner, Kaepernick, Newton, and Matt Ryan. So, only six more QBs in total, but Hasselbeck, Grossman, and Warner are no longer playing. I also doubt anyone would argue Kaepernick comes close to Ben. So, that leaves two.

Thus, same chance of winning a SB? Your answer is four other QBs. Same chance of getting there? Your answer is six other QBs. Both are a long way from 10-12.

[DesertSteel]

How many rings does Gurley have? Elliott?? Kamara???

That's a great point! A team doesn't need a great Running Back to win the Super Bowl.

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"Same chance of winning" was my question. Since 2005, the QBs that have won outside of Ben are Peyton and Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers, Flacco, Russell Wilson, Tom Brady, and Nick Foles. Peyton Manning is no longer playing. I doubt anyone here would argue Flacco or Foles is as good as Ben. So, that leaves us with four QBs.

But, let's go with your easier hurdle of getting to the SB. Now, we have the above list plus Hasselbeck, Grossman, Warner, Kaepernick, Newton, and Matt Ryan. So, only six more QBs in total, but Hasselbeck, Grossman, and Warner are no longer playing. I also doubt anyone would argue Kaepernick comes close to Ben. So, that leaves two.

Thus, same chance of winning a SB? Your answer is four other QBs. Same chance of getting there? Your answer is six other QBs. Both are a long way from 10-12.

I can't disagree that a great QB is needed to win the Super Bowl, with very few exceptions. The same cannot be historically said about Runnng Backs.

[teegre]

That's a great point! A team doesn't need a great Running Back to win the Super Bowl.

Yea, but you mentioned those RBs as giving the Steelers “just as much of a chance” as Bell at winning a SuperBowl... which is currently 0%.

So... who exactly would you want as our RB???

[hawaiiansteeler]

who exactly would you want as our RB?

for this upcoming Super Bowl winning season, I'll take this guy:

[DesertSteel]

Yea, but you mentioned those RBs as giving the Steelers “just as much of a chance” as Bell at winning a SuperBowl... which is currently 0%.

So... who exactly would you want as our RB???

I'd like a guy who can take it to the house every now and then. That's one thing Bell can't do.

Bell is the guy in 2018, so this is all about 2019 and beyond. These other guys are hypotheticals as we will likely replace him through the draft.

[Craic]

I can't disagree that a great QB is needed to win the Super Bowl, with very few exceptions. The same cannot be historically said about Runnng Backs.

In all honesty, believe it or not, I agree with you. Statistically speaking, RBs do not win SBs. However, I think having Bell gives us a much better chance of getting to the SB than not having him or replacing him with an average to above average RB.

(Oh, and after rereading my last post, I apologize if it came off snippy or sharp. It wasn't intended that way, although I can see how it'd be taken like that. Sorry.)

[DesertSteel]

In all honesty, believe it or not, I agree with you. Statistically speaking, RBs do not win SBs. However, I think having Bell gives us a much better chance of getting to the SB than not having him or replacing him with an average to above average RB.

(Oh, and after rereading my last post, I apologize if it came off snippy or sharp. It wasn't intended that way, although I can see how it'd be taken like that. Sorry.)

No doubt that Bell is an asset. But we all know that $15M a year is a big investment and may cause the overall product to suffer. A $6M RB along with a $5M ILB and a $4M OLB may yield a better result. Mix and match the positions/dollars however you like.

Thanks for the gesture Craic!

[hawaiiansteeler]

No doubt that Bell is an asset. But we all know that $15M a year is a big investment and may cause the overall product to suffer. A $6M RB along with a $5M ILB and a $4M OLB may yield a better result. Mix and match the positions/dollars however you like.

the Seahawks just signed their first round RB Rashaad Penny to a 4 year rookie contract paying him roughly $6 million or $1.5 million/year.

I honestly think we would have a better chance of winning the Super Bowl by selecting a RB in the first round next year and giving him a similar contract and using all the monies saved from not giving Bell his $15-17 million/year to address other positions of weakness such as ILB and/or OLB as you suggested.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I'd like a guy who can take it to the house every now and then. That's one thing Bell can't do.

Bell is the guy in 2018, so this is all about 2019 and beyond. These other guys are hypotheticals as we will likely replace him through the draft.

Ill take Bell's flurry of 10+ yard plays over a really long run that's pretty rare anyways if you look at the statistics

[steelreserve]

Ill take Bell's flurry of 10+ yard plays over a really long run that's pretty rare anyways if you look at the statistics

Yeah, or even the fact that he keeps driving and falls forward, turning a no-gain or a 1-yard loss into a 3-yard positive gain. 3rd and 4 is a hell of a lot better than the 3rd and 9 or 3rd and 11 we would be getting with 1-yard Willie Parker, or most of the other clowns we tried between Bettis and Bell.

Long TD runs are way overrated if you ask me - you get what, maybe 3 of them in a good year, whereas the guy without "next-level" speed will get tackled after 30 yards, but you probably score a good proportion of that time anyway, when he follows it up with another first down run and another one after that. Over the course of a season, it's much better to have the guy who will consistently pick up first downs and sustain drives, than the streaky guy with great speed - you'll score a lot more touchdowns.

Having said that, $15 million or more is way too much to spend for that capability. Really what we need is a successful running game that sustains drives, and all you need for that is just a stocky guy who's hard to bring down. Plenty of those exist who are not named Le'veon Bell-Einstein, whether it's in the draft or for half the cost as a free agent. Probably the draft is the more likely way for us to find one, given that you can't count on always having the guy you want available in FA and actually signing him.

[86WARD]

The anger towards Bell now, compared to the love for Bell then is hilarious.

[DesertSteel]

Ill take Bell's flurry of 10+ yard plays over a really long run that's pretty rare anyways if you look at the statistics

Bell was tied for 34th in the league in 20+ yard runs last year. He had 3 with a long of 27. The leaders had 12. The top 10 all had runs of 40+ yards. It's a hole in his game. I'm just saying that in our 2019 RB, I'd like to see more home run ability. In the meantime, I'll appreciate Bell's 5-10 yard runs and his 4.0 YPC.

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the Seahawks just signed their first round RB Rashaad Penny to a 4 year rookie contract paying him roughly $6 million or $1.5 million/year.

I honestly think we would have a better chance of winning the Super Bowl by selecting a RB in the first round next year and giving him a similar contract and using all the monies saved from not giving Bell his $15-17 million/year to address other positions of weakness such as ILB and/or OLB as you suggested.

I agree with your sentiments.

[Mojouw]

I keep reading about these linebackers that are going to be sitting out there as Free Agents that would put the defense over the top. Who?

Seriously -- go to this website http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/2017/linebacker/ and play around with the lists.

In 2017 they let Timmons go because they didn't WANT to pay him not because they couldn't pay him. They swung and missed on Hightower not because of the $$$ but because he didn't want to leave New England. They could have signed Navaro Bowman, but at the time he signed, they thought they were good and Bowman didn't want to go anywhere and be a back-up. So again, not money.

In 2018, honestly I'm good with Bostic over the higher $$$ LBs on that list. Your mileage may vary. I don't see a single pass rusher that changes a thing.

In 2019, I guess Clowney or Mosley if the actually make it to UFA status. Unless a body part falls off for either of them, I suspect they will get re-signed. A 35 year old Terrell Suggs?

Everyone wants to have this big chunk of cap change to spend it on some unnamed and possibly nonexistent player or players. Meanwhile, one of the best offensive players in football is standing right there.

[AtlantaDan]

Everyone wants to have this big chunk of cap change to spend it on some unnamed and possibly nonexistent player or players. Meanwhile, one of the best offensive players in football is standing right there.

Are you referring to Chris Boswell?

Keep an eye on that deal still not being done as the Steelers go through the couch for change as they tie up $$$ in repeatedly tagging Bell

[DesertSteel]

Are you referring to Chris Boswell?

Keep an eye on that deal still not being done as the Steelers go through the couch for change as they tie up $$$ in repeatedly tagging Bell

Seriously!! When is Boz going to get done?!

[steelreserve]

Isn't Boswell an RFA this year?

[AtlantaDan]

Isn't Boswell an RFA this year?

RFA for 2018 season - Boswell signed his RFA tender for $2.9 million for this upcoming season

Unrestricted free agent after the 2018 season

https://overthecap.com/player/chris-boswell/3378/

[GBMelBlount]

Are you referring to Chris Boswell?

Keep an eye on that deal still not being done as the Steelers go through the couch for change as they tie up $$$ in repeatedly tagging Bell

We are tying up a lot of money in a 4.0 ypc running back who gets a lot of dump passes, that can be distributed elsewhere.

[Mojouw]

I'm not sure I'd want to pay Bell if I was the Steelers. But if having money to spread around, then why pay a premium price for a league average corner with a troubling injury history while Sutton rots on the bench? I mean I know he's a great guy and all.

[Craic]

We are tying up a lot of money in a 4.0 ypc running back who gets a lot of dump passes, that can be distributed elsewhere.

You keep hammering that 4.0 YPC, but you do realize another back would have had 2.0 YPC last year, right? The line seriously struggled for a good portion of last year as did Ben.

[GBMelBlount]

You keep hammering that 4.0 YPC, but you do realize another back would have had 2.0 YPC last year, right? The line seriously struggled for a good portion of last year as did Ben.

What did Conner average last year?

[DesertSteel]

I'm not sure I'd want to pay Bell if I was the Steelers. But if having money to spread around, then why pay a premium price for a league average corner with a troubling injury history while Sutton rots on the bench? I mean I know he's a great guy and all.

I think Haden was better than average last year and likely this is his last year with the team.

[DesertSteel]

You keep hammering that 4.0 YPC, but you do realize another back would have had 2.0 YPC last year, right? The line seriously struggled for a good portion of last year as did Ben.

I don't believe that for a second. They could draft a guy in the 6th round to get 4.0 YPC. Conversely, put Bell on another team and ask the OL to hold their blocks for Bell to be patient and see how that goes?

[Mojouw]

I think Haden was better than average last year and likely this is his last year with the team.

Most observers don't see it the same way:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2...-season#slide6

This has Haden on spot above....Ross Cockerell!

53. Joe Haden, Pittsburgh Steelers
Coverage: 15/25
Reaction: 17/25
Recovery: 14/25
Tackling: 8/15
Position Value: 10/10
Overall Grade: 64/100
In August, the Steelers handed Haden a three-year contract that was essentially a one-year, low-money deal with two option years in case he looked good enough to keep past 2017. The veteran had a nondescript season—like the last several he had with the Cleveland Browns—as he was still uneven with his eye discipline and wanted to jump every underneath route.
He's almost purely a vertical zone defender at this point, making him a fit for the team's scheme, but his limited speed and reliability were issues once again.

Even if you strongly disagree with that ranking, Haden is nowhere to be found on any Top 25 CB list I can find on the Google machines. But he is the 9th highest paid CB in the league. I like Joe Haden. Joe Haden seems like a great guy. Joe Haden still can play in the NFL. Joe Haden is extremely overpaid. Haden had a lone INT and 7 passes defensed in 11 starts last year (make it 10 because he got hurt partway through one of those).

Leveon Bell is asking to be overpaid. Leveon Bell still produces top 5 offensive numbers. I mean if you are going to overpay anyone...

[86WARD]

We are tying up a lot of money in a 4.0 ypc running back who gets a lot of dump passes, that can be distributed elsewhere.

So what back is going to come in and get a better YPC and catch the “dump passes”. There’s a reason they are dump passes...because they couldn’t be distributed elsewhere. Maybe they could get them to James...but according to most, he “stinks”, McDonald’s hands “stink”. Maybe AB or JuJu? Well if they were open, or even close to open, I’m pretty confident Ben wouldn’t be afraid to throw their way. So again...who are you replacing Bell with and what other MLB are you spending the remaining balance of that contract on?

[AtlantaDan]

You keep hammering that 4.0 YPC, but you do realize another back would have had 2.0 YPC last year, right?

Anything is possible, but FWIW the average YPC for other backs were Conner 4.5, Ridley 4.2, and Fitz 4.2

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...s/pit/2017.htm

There are a variety of reasons Bell’s YPC may have dropped significantly, but at age 26 it is highly unlikely he has as many peak years in his future than he does in his past

Peak Age For A NFL Running Back

A running back is more likely to have a peak season early in his career at 22 or 23 than at the end of his career at 29 or 30.

http://apexfantasyleagues.com/2018/0...-running-back/