As Martavis Bryant's saga gets sadder, the Steelers' decision looks smarter

[hawaiiansteeler]

Ron Cook: As Martavis Bryant's saga gets sadder, the Steelers' decision looks smarter

Let's hope the receiver doesn't waste his immense talent

RON COOK
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
JUN 15, 2018

I thought Jamie Dixon was a bad hire. He became the winningest basketball coach in Pitt history. I said Jim Rutherford was too old and too washed up for the Penguins. He built consecutive Stanley Cup winners and is headed to the Hall of Fame.

I wrote the Pirates wouldn’t win again in my lifetime. They beat the Cincinnati Reds in a wild-card playoff game on one of the most spectacular nights in Pittsburgh sports history. I called Hines Ward a singles hitter and said Antonio Brown wasn’t worth the really big money. Ward was Super Bowl XL MVP, and Brown has become the greatest receiver in Steelers history.

You get the idea.

I’ve been wrong a million times over the years.

Martavis Bryant makes it a million and one.

I’m the dummy who said the Steelers made a bad decision by trading Bryant to the Oakland Raiders for a third-round pick in the April draft. They used that pick to trade up three spots to take Mason Rudolph, who the organization thinks has a real chance to be Ben Roethlisberger’s backup this season and, eventually, his successor. Bryant, meanwhile, reportedly is looking at another possible suspension from the NFL, which, considering he already has been suspended twice, could end his career.

to read rest of article:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/r...s/201806160017

[zulater]

Nothing against Colbert. But I think there are 30 other GM's who would have made the trade from the Steelers side of it. And there is Oakland. The only team who given the baggage Bryant brings would make that deal. And it's not just about his substance abuse record. He under-performed last season and had long periods of petulance. A 3rd rounder? Duh! Whatever was there to consider?

As far as Martavis. I hope this is untrue. Not for the Raiders sake but for he and his families sake. And if it turns out true he is facing suspension I hope it turns out that this is over PED's. ( has that been ruled out?) Which I think would only result in a 4 game suspension. Looking at how amazingly cut he is for a receiver I would think this possibility has to exist?

Anyway I'm glad the Steelers did the right thing. But I wont laugh or hate on Bryant. Substance abuse is too serious an issue in this world to make light of it.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

RON COOK
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

I’m the dummy who said the Steelers made a bad decision by trading Bryant to the Oakland Raiders for a third-round pick in the April draft. 7

Yes, Ron Cook is that dummy.

Seriously, lets look at the signs that all roads were pointing to a epic failure by Martavis Bryant and support trading him away for a new kicking net, never mind the fact they got a 3rd round pick for him.

-He has 1st round talent and skills, yet dropped to the 4th because of pot and attitude concerns.
-he needed his mother to move to Pittsburgh and live next door to keep him in line.
-multiple violations of NFL policy leading to 1 year suspension
-Upon 1 year suspension Bryant had Ben Roethlisberger say "he lied to me" and Art Rooney II say, "I'm not sure you can count on him"
-When asked about what he would say to teammates upon returning from 1 year suspension he said "

No. What happened happened. What’s done is done. There’s nothing for me to say. Just move on and show with my actions. They’ll see on the field. I’m not going to go back and say nothing" https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/01/13/ma...-reinstatement

-when Sammy Coates and JuJu Smith Schuster were drafted, Bryant took to twitter to express his displeasure
-when Bryant didn't get enough passes his way last season, he took to twitter to complain and suggest he wanted a trade.

Martavis Bryant has athletic ability, but lacks 2 other abilities. Rely-ABILITY, as nobody can rely on him to be a positive attitude on the team. He lacks avail-ABILITY, as he has missed so many games due to suspension. I never understood the desire to have him on the team at all this year. Happy for Steelers he is gone, sad for the kid that he throws away millions of dollars and talent.

[steelreserve]

Well, I liked the trade at first, hated it when we used a higher draft pick on a WR than what we got, and now can't help but think it was the right move again. I'm sure there will be more twists and turns that reverse my opinion at least 2 or 3 more times.

If it is weed again, I can't feel sorry for him. Say what you want about addiction, but you do not get addicted to weed.

Heroin - that's an addiction. Meth - that's an addiction. When you're a pothead, all you're addicted to is hanging out with your stoner friends, and the lifestyle of seeing how "weed" you can be and how much you can get away with. When you let that cost you consequences in your real life, it's ONLY stupidity.

[ALLD]

If the NFL reverses its policy on marijuana, Bryant would become an instant star.

[hawaiiansteeler]

If the NFL reverses its policy on marijuana, Bryant would become an instant star.

paired with Josh Gordon they would be an unstoppable duo

[bendsteel]

Well, I liked the trade at first, hated it when we used a higher draft pick on a WR than what we got, and now can't help but think it was the right move again. I'm sure there will be more twists and turns that reverse my opinion at least 2 or 3 more times.

If it is weed again, I can't feel sorry for him. Say what you want about addiction, but you do not get addicted to weed.

Heroin - that's an addiction. Meth - that's an addiction. When you're a pothead, all you're addicted to is hanging out with your stoner friends, and the lifestyle of seeing how "weed" you can be and how much you can get away with. When you let that cost you consequences in your real life, it's ONLY stupidity.

I have to respectfully disagree. Cannabis may not have chemicals that are medically proven to be addictive, but neither do gambling, sex/porn addiction, shopping addiction and many others. It is a behavioral addiction. For the record, I am board certified nutritionist w/ a minor in herbology. Currently running a state legal cannabis extraction lab in Oregon. You are correct, cannabis is not addictive. Using cannabis, however CAN be very addictive for a lot of folks.

[Dwinsgames]

I have to respectfully disagree. Cannabis may not have chemicals that are medically proven to be addictive, but neither do gambling, sex/porn addiction, shopping addiction and many others. It is a behavioral addiction. For the record, I am board certified nutritionist w/ a minor in herbology. Currently running a state legal cannabis extraction lab in Oregon. You are correct, cannabis is not addictive. Using cannabis, however CAN be very addictive for a lot of folks.

this

- - - Updated - - -

paired with Josh Gordon they would be an unstoppable duo

and this

[DesertSteel]

I have to respectfully disagree. Cannabis may not have chemicals that are medically proven to be addictive, but neither do gambling, sex/porn addiction, shopping addiction and many others. It is a behavioral addiction. For the record, I am board certified nutritionist w/ a minor in herbology. Currently running a state legal cannabis extraction lab in Oregon. You are correct, cannabis is not addictive. Using cannabis, however CAN be very addictive for a lot of folks.

My sympathies go out to PacMan Jones for his addiction to strippers and to Ray Rice for his addiction to beating women, etc.

[steelreserve]

I have to respectfully disagree. Cannabis may not have chemicals that are medically proven to be addictive, but neither do gambling, sex/porn addiction, shopping addiction and many others. It is a behavioral addiction.

Right, that's the point. Physical addiction is sad. Behavioral addiction is stupidity.

I mean, it's sad in the sense that seeing someone ruin their life/livelihood is "sad" regardless of how - but I don't feel very sorry for you when you do it to yourself.

[tube517]

paired with Josh Gordon they would be an unstoppable duo

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-...ago-111464128/

[hawaiiansteeler]

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-...ago-111464128/

not surprising, they probably got high together

[Craic]

Well, I liked the trade at first, hated it when we used a higher draft pick on a WR than what we got, and now can't help but think it was the right move again. I'm sure there will be more twists and turns that reverse my opinion at least 2 or 3 more times.

If it is weed again, I can't feel sorry for him. Say what you want about addiction, but you do not get addicted to weed.

Heroin - that's an addiction. Meth - that's an addiction. When you're a pothead, all you're addicted to is hanging out with your stoner friends, and the lifestyle of seeing how "weed" you can be and how much you can get away with. When you let that cost you consequences in your real life, it's ONLY stupidity.

Despite all the science that says otherwise, right? Why this myth continues, I have no idea.

[Craic]

Right, that's the point. Physical addiction is sad. Behavioral addiction is stupidity.

I mean, it's sad in the sense that seeing someone ruin their life/livelihood is "sad" regardless of how - but I don't feel very sorry for you when you do it to yourself.

It's more than behavioral addiction. It is a physical addiction as the brain gets use to the drug by slowding down production of and sensitivity to endocannabinoid (Endogenous lipid-based retro-grade) neurotransmitters. The cannabinoid receptor proteins are found in the brain and spinal column. Thus, when a person stops smoking pot, a physical deficiency kicks in that drives the person to cravings and relapse. Here's a article on it. Here's a scholarly article saying the same thing. In short, heavy pot use interrupts and depresses neurotransmitters in the signaling system. When pot use is stopped, the body needs a fix for the signaling system, which drives more pot use. So, yes, it is absolutely a physical addiction.

On a different note, scientists are also discovering possible links with this newly discovered system in the body and Parkinson's disease, Huntington's disease, and even possibly anorexia.

[Mojouw]

Addiction and mental health are funny things. Cultural perceptions of them change over time.

Until about the 1950's and 1960's alcoholism was seen as a mark of weak character, moral failing, and just general degeneracy. Then the condition became recognized as a medical and mental health issue and gradually our perception of alcohol dependency and abuse shifted.

Whose to say that our increased understanding of the use of recreational narcotics won't drive a similar change in cultural attitudes?

[DesertSteel]

Despite all the science that says otherwise, right? Why this myth continues, I have no idea.

Yes everything bad is a disease.

[steelreserve]

Despite all the science that says otherwise, right? Why this myth continues, I have no idea.

Because it sure isn't like heroin, where you can get physically hooked and miserably dependent on it after taking it a couple times.

Marijuana, as noted by all the studies about its addictive properties, is something that certain people can become "dependent" on AFTER smoking a shitload of it for an extended period of time. You don't get hooked on it by accident when you don't want to; you might get that way by voluntarily walking into it and abusing it cartoonishly. You do it to yourself.

From personal experience, pot was one of the easiest things I've ever tried to quit. Had smoked it pretty regularly for years at the time, and had a pothead for a roommate, who continued to get high all day long. One day I said "you know what, I'm just tired of this," and that was that. No ill effects, no cravings, not nothing. Just wasn't interested in it anymore. True story.

[Craic]

Because it sure isn't like heroin, where you can get physically hooked and miserably dependent on it after taking it a couple times.

Marijuana, as noted by all the studies about its addictive properties, is something that certain people can become "dependent" on AFTER smoking a shitload of it for an extended period of time. You don't get hooked on it by accident when you don't want to; you might get that way by voluntarily walking into it and abusing it cartoonishly. You do it to yourself.

From personal experience, pot was one of the easiest things I've ever tried to quit. Had smoked it pretty regularly for years at the time, and had a pothead for a roommate, who continued to get high all day long. One day I said "you know what, I'm just tired of this," and that was that. No ill effects, no cravings, not nothing. Just wasn't interested in it anymore. True story.

So, because you can't get addicted to it instantly, it's not physically addictive? In that case, neither is alcohol. Of course, many people drink for years and then decide, naa, I'm done. And walk away. Again, it doesn't prove or disprove anything.

Anyways, this is starting to be a thread derail.
---------

So, back to the point: anyone hear anything else about how this might have all been overblown? Wouldn't surprise me seeing as it is the offseason.

[steelreserve]

So, because you can't get addicted to it instantly, it's not physically addictive? In that case, neither is alcohol. Of course, many people drink for years and then decide, naa, I'm done. And walk away. Again, it doesn't prove or disprove anything.

Anyways, this is starting to be a thread derail.
---------

So, back to the point: anyone hear anything else about how this might have all been overblown? Wouldn't surprise me seeing as it is the offseason.

Yes, because you have to put in a significant amount of effort to get hooked on it, it is your own fault for stupidity if you let things get to that point. And I do not feel sorry for you, nor think that it's sad and tragic, if your problem is that you're stupid.

fwiw, I have not seen another peep of confirmation about this story from anywhere else in the past week, so I am beginning to have my doubts about it.

[AtlantaDan]

Marijuana, as noted by all the studies about its addictive properties, is something that certain people can become "dependent" on AFTER smoking a shitload of it for an extended period of time.

Good point on the distinction between dependence and addiction

Marijuana use disorder becomes addiction when the person cannot stop using the drug even though it interferes with many aspects of his or her life. Estimates of the number of people addicted to marijuana are controversial, in part because epidemiological studies of substance use often use dependence as a proxy for addiction even though it is possible to be dependent without being addicted. Those studies suggest that 9 percent of people who use marijuana will become dependent on it,rising to about 17 percent in those who start using in their teens.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21145178

Bottom line is if Bryant draws another suspension marijuana has fucked up his life regardless of whether he is addicted to or only dependent upon it

fwiw, I have not seen another peep of confirmation about this story from anywhere else in the past week, so I am beginning to have my doubts about it.

Unless Bryant has become more disciplined in his use of twitter recently, IMO seeing no denial of the story from Bryant, his agent, or the Raiders indicates to me there is something going on

[steelreserve]

Unless Bryant has become more disciplined in his use of twitter recently, IMO seeing no denial of the story from Bryant, his agent, or the Raiders indicates to me there is something going on

Could be that he's too high to know it's even a story.

I rely don't know what to think. On the one hand, usually with a story like that, somebody would have something to say about it one way or the another. On the other hand, Bryant's track record is uh ... less than stellar, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was true either.

Anyway, I'm glad that's not OUR problem anymore. That probably makes the draft pick a good trade.

[Craic]

Good point on the distinction between dependence and addiction

Marijuana use disorder becomes addiction when the person cannot stop using the drug even though it interferes with many aspects of his or her life. Estimates of the number of people addicted to marijuana are controversial, in part because epidemiological studies of substance use often use dependence as a proxy for addiction even though it is possible to be dependent without being addicted. Those studies suggest that 9 percent of people who use marijuana will become dependent on it,rising to about 17 percent in those who start using in their teens.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21145178

NCBI is a good site for this discussion, and their publications are definitely not unreasonably biased (everything contains some bias, but these studies actively try to mitigate it, which makes them very legitimate).
That said, a little further in the same abstract, it stated:

Transition to cannabis or cocaine dependence occurred faster than transition to nicotine or alcohol dependence. The existence of common predictors of transition dependence across substances suggests that shared mechanisms are involved.

A person therefore becomes dependent on cannabis faster than a person becomes dependent on alcohol. And, the same is true for nicotine. Moreover, "shared mechanisms are involved" include sharing dependence mechanisms between cannabis and cocaine. That is in addition to what I provided about physical dependence due to the depression of receptors. There is simply no scientific way to deny marijuana can cause addiction, and does cause it in around 1 out of 10 people who smoke it regularly.

Bottom line is if Bryant draws another suspension marijuana has fucked up his life regardless of whether he is addicted to or only dependent upon it



Unless Bryant has become more disciplined in his use of twitter recently, IMO seeing no denial of the story from Bryant, his agent, or the Raiders indicates to me there is something going on

Very true on the first. For the second, I think Bryant has probably smartened up on the advice of a lawyer, or he finally learned his lesson after being benched—tweeting and posting does nothing for you. We'll just have to see what happens. I hope it was just something stupid like test-paperwork arriving in Pittsburgh when he was now in Oakland or something. However, if he truly failed another one, then enough is enough.

[ALLD]

paired with Josh Gordon they would be an unstoppable duo

They would smoke every DB in the NFL?

[hawaiiansteeler]

Gruden On Ex-Steelers WR Bryant: ‘He’s Got To Get Out Here And Play Better’

By Dave Bryan
Posted on August 5, 2018

By the sound of things, former Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver Martavis Bryant isn’t off to a great start with the Oakland Raiders and especially not with his new head coach Jon Gruden. Bryant has apparently missed a few training camp practices thus far due to illnesses and Gruden made sure to note that on Saturday during his talk with the media when asked what he’s learned about the wide receiver so far.

“He’s got to get out here and play better,” Gruden said, according to Michael Gehlken of the Las Vegas Review-Journal. “He’s in a competitive situation. Right now, a lot of the other receivers have had a nice camp. He’s just got to learn the offense. He’s got to stay out here. He’s had some illnesses. He’s got to get on the field. He’s got to master the offense and become more versatile, and that’s the key to making this team better.”

to read rest of article:

https://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/0...d-play-better/

[j-d-s]

Good point on the distinction between dependence and addiction

Marijuana use disorder becomes addiction when the person cannot stop using the drug even though it interferes with many aspects of his or her life. Estimates of the number of people addicted to marijuana are controversial, in part because epidemiological studies of substance use often use dependence as a proxy for addiction even though it is possible to be dependent without being addicted. Those studies suggest that 9 percent of people who use marijuana will become dependent on it,rising to about 17 percent in those who start using in their teens.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21145178

Bottom line is if Bryant draws another suspension marijuana has fucked up his life regardless of whether he is addicted to or only dependent upon it



Unless Bryant has become more disciplined in his use of twitter recently, IMO seeing no denial of the story from Bryant, his agent, or the Raiders indicates to me there is something going on

Also, remember that you can get addicted to behavior. Like Gambling. If you can get addicted to something like Gambling, you surely can get addicted to Marijuana.