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Thread: Steelers 2018 Defense

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    Steelers 2018 Defense

    How do you feel about the Steelers' defense going into the 2018 season?

    I personally think there is a lot of talent and "pieces" to what could be a top ten defense.

    One key in my mind is how long it will take for the defense to gel. My hope is that they do by the 2nd half and at worst by the playoffs.

    Your thoughts?
    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    How do you feel about the Steelers' defense going into the 2018 season?

    I personally think there is a lot of talent and "pieces" to what could be a top ten defense.

    One key in my mind is how long it will take for the defense to gel. My hope is that they do by the 2nd half and at worst by the playoffs.

    Your thoughts?
    I see a collection of really good athletes. I think something like 8 or 9 of the projected top 14 guys on the defense were picked in the first 3 rounds. So the parts are really good.

    I do not see a what the sum of those parts looks like yet.

    The 2017 version of the defense got good pressure but forced no turnovers and was prone to allowing the big play. If the 2018 version could simply force more turnovers and eliminate the big plays, then that is all they need to do.

    Give the offense a few extra possessions and take away one score a game from the opposition and suddenly all those Boswell led nail-biters are two score victories and the defense only has to rank in the top half of the league. That is my hope. Do I see it? Not yet, but there have been flashes.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    If preseason is any indication, it seems as though or secondary is better at ballhawking than it has been previously. I think the defense will yardage wise, be on par with last year, but be better at forcing turnovers, which I'm ok with.

    Also it looks like Dan McCullers will make the team and seems to be good at stuffing the run. Maybe he'll be useful vs those run heavy teams like the jagoffs.

    There is a lot more young talent on the defense as well. I think this could be a top 5 unit in a few years. Matt Thomas looks like the real deal, and although I don't expect him to start this year, he has a good shot of becoming the starter next season... Hell, maybe even late this season, knowing that his competition isn't necessarily all-world. Dirty red is a special teams ace but not even what I'd call backup material for the mack ILB. Bostic is a band aid, nothing more. Thomas is the only one out of the group whose talent is what I'd call starter capable.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    I think the entirety of the answer will come down to Tuitt and Heyward both remaining healthy. If they both stay healthy and play to their levels I think we will have a defense fans have been missing for awhile. If one of them deals with injuries again, it will probably be much the same as last year. Not a bad defense but not an overly good one either. As they say pressure and coverage go hand in hand and I don't think we are going to get a whole lot more from Dupree than we have already seen and Watt is still somewhat of an unknown as to how he will progress.

    The wild card is going to be if players like Thomas and Edmunds can emerge enough to get significant playing time because they are playmakers even if they aren't perfect just yet and we could use some playmakers.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    It all comes down to coaching. Talent can only take you so far, you need a solid coordinator to pull it all together, and frankly Butler is not the guy and he hasn't shown he's capable of being the guy. Maybe in 2019 with a better D-coordinator and a guy like Edmunds really blossoming, the 2019 defense could be championship caliber

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    I'm not holding any illusions or high expectations about the 2018 Defense. They will be just decent overall like 2015 and 2016. The 2016 Defense wasn't flashy, but it didn't turn into a dumpster fire like the 2017 Defense did. If the Steelers had the 2015-16 Defense, they very likely beat the Jaguars.

    The loss of Mike Mitchell is addition by subtraction and should help at little more in defensive pursuit, which was really bad near the end of last year.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    I'm not holding any illusions or high expectations about the 2018 Defense. They will be just decent overall like 2015 and 2016. The 2016 Defense wasn't flashy, but it didn't turn into a dumpster fire like the 2017 Defense did. If the Steelers had the 2015-16 Defense, they very likely beat the Jaguars.

    The loss of Mike Mitchell is addition by subtraction and should help at little more in defensive pursuit, which was really bad near the end of last year.
    2015 was hot garbage, near the bottom of the pack. 2016 was a mediocre at best defensive squad that had it's stats padded by playing a string of shitty offenses before being exposed in the AFC Championship game

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    2015 was hot garbage, near the bottom of the pack. 2016 was a mediocre at best defensive squad that had it's stats padded by playing a string of shitty offenses before being exposed in the AFC Championship game
    The 2015 Defense was a Fitzgerald Toussaint fumble away from beating the Broncos in Denver.

    The 2016 Defense beat the Dolphins and Chiefs at Arrowhead, and lost to future first-ballot Tom Brady who lets be honest always destroyed Steelers Defenses, and were let down by an Offense that disappeared in Foxboro.

    The 2017 Defense... we don't need to go down that road again.

    BTW, the 2015 and 2016 Defense were able to win playoff games. Narrative doesn't match reality.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    The 2015 Defense was a Fitzgerald Toussaint fumble away from beating the Broncos in Denver.

    The 2016 Defense beat the Dolphins and Chiefs at Arrowhead, and lost to future first-ballot Tom Brady who lets be honest always destroyed Steelers Defenses, and were let down by an Offense that disappeared in Foxboro.

    The 2017 Defense... we don't need to go down that road again.

    BTW, the 2015 and 2016 Defense were able to win playoff games. Narrative doesn't match reality.
    Just because your team wins a playoff game, doesn't make your defense any good (particularly against winners such as A.J. McCarron, Matt Moore, and Alex Smith). 2015 was near the bottom in defense including surrendering over 300 yards passing to Johnny Partyboy and surrendering 27 points to Brock Suckweiler in one half before Suckweiler got injured. This was also the defense that led a broken down hobbled Peyton Manning march 65 yards for a game winning TD with ease, including completing a 3rd and 12 pass to an unknown receiver. 2016 was overrated and they padded their stats against bad offenses. Brady torched the D twice, Dak Prescott and Ezekiel Elliot torched it, even guys like Ginger Dalton topped 300 yards passing and Average Joe Flacco scored 27 points on them. Those were not good defenses

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Just because your team wins a playoff game, doesn't make your defense any good (particularly against winners such as A.J. McCarron, Matt Moore, and Alex Smith). 2015 was near the bottom in defense including surrendering over 300 yards passing to Johnny Partyboy and surrendering 27 points to Brock Suckweiler in one half before Suckweiler got injured. This was also the defense that led a broken down hobbled Peyton Manning march 65 yards for a game winning TD with ease, including completing a 3rd and 12 pass to an unknown receiver. 2016 was overrated and they padded their stats against bad offenses. Brady torched the D twice, Dak Prescott and Ezekiel Elliot torched it, even guys like Ginger Dalton topped 300 yards passing and Average Joe Flacco scored 27 points on them. Those were not good defenses
    As opposed to getting torched by Brett Hundley, giving up 38 points to Joe Flacco this time around, and giving up 24 points to DeShone Kizer in the final week against a winless Browns team.

    The 2015-16 Defenses beat the QB's they should've beaten and didn't surrender 38 points at home to lose to Blake Bortles.

    The 2017 unit did all of these things. In every sense of the word, the defense regressed in 2017, and it's not a good look on Butler.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    As opposed to getting torched by Brett Hundley, giving up 38 points to Joe Flacco this time around, and giving up 24 points to DeShone Kizer in the final week against a winless Browns team.

    The 2015-16 Defenses beat the QB's they should've beaten and didn't surrender 38 points at home to lose to Blake Bortles.

    The 2017 unit did all of these things. In every sense of the word, the defense regressed in 2017, and it's not a good look on Butler.
    I am not saying the 2017 was any good, but you are acting like the 2015-2016 defenses were good, they weren't. Take Shazier out of those defenses, and you would have gotten defenses that bad

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    I am not saying the 2017 was any good, but you are acting like the 2015-2016 defenses were good, they weren't. Take Shazier out of those defenses, and you would have gotten defenses that bad
    Even before the Shazier injury, the Defense was giving up big plays and chunks. They just became more frequent after he left.

    The 2015-16 were good enough to take the Steelers to the doorstep of the Super Bowl, and that's all that matters.

    With this Offense, we don't need an elite Defense. Just a defense that is good enough, and last year they were nowhere near close to being good enough.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Even before the Shazier injury, the Defense was giving up big plays and chunks. They just became more frequent after he left.

    The 2015-16 were good enough to take the Steelers to the doorstep of the Super Bowl, and that's all that matters.

    With this Offense, we don't need an elite Defense. Just a defense that is good enough, and last year they were nowhere near close to being good enough.
    If the Steelers defense was good enough in 2015, they would have never surrendered a game winning 65 yard TD drive to 39 year old Peyton Manning. The Broncos scored 23 points that game, while being slowed down by at least a half a dozen dropped passes by WRs that otherwise would have gone for first downs.

    The 2016 defense surrendered 36 points, and that was with the Patriots taking their foot off the gas due to it being a blowout, expecting the offense to bail out that kind of defensive showing is unreasonable. (And before you give the whole they played Tom Brady excuse, remember Brady's Patriots have been held to under 25 points in 5 of his 6 other AFC Championship appearances this decade and has been at least slowed down/held in check on multiple occasions in the post season, so playing Tom Brady is not a valid excuse to surrendering 36 points)

    Porous defense has been the main problem for the Steelers and the main issue holding them back in all of Keith Butler's years as DC (2015, 2016, AND 2017). It was also the main problem in 2014 as well

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    The Steelers will HAVE to score 30+ points a game to win, if that's any indication of how I feel.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    The LB's worry me especially if Watt has a nagging injury.
    After Vincenzo the ILB's are a very weak group....lots of guys but nobody stands out.
    D-line should be the strength, secondary should be better.
    All eyes are on Butler.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    I have zero confidence in the CBs...especially Cam Sutton. He’s had a very average to below average camp...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyphon25 View Post
    I think the entirety of the answer will come down to Tuitt and Heyward both remaining healthy. If they both stay healthy and play to their levels I think we will have a defense fans have been missing for awhile. If one of them deals with injuries again, it will probably be much the same as last year. Not a bad defense but not an overly good one either. As they say pressure and coverage go hand in hand and I don't think we are going to get a whole lot more from Dupree than we have already seen and Watt is still somewhat of an unknown as to how he will progress.

    The wild card is going to be if players like Thomas and Edmunds can emerge enough to get significant playing time because they are playmakers even if they aren't perfect just yet and we could use some playmakers.
    Nailed it.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    If the Steelers defense was good enough in 2015, they would have never surrendered a game winning 65 yard TD drive to 39 year old Peyton Manning. The Broncos scored 23 points that game, while being slowed down by at least a half a dozen dropped passes by WRs that otherwise would have gone for first downs.
    If so-and-so didn't happen, the score would've been worse!

    And if Ben plays halfway decently or the WR's can catch, or if Mike Mitchell isn't a moron, the Steelers very likely don't get blown out in Foxboro. We can play the if game over, over, and over.

    The 2016 defense surrendered 36 points, and that was with the Patriots taking their foot off the gas due to it being a blowout, expecting the offense to bail out that kind of defensive showing is unreasonable. (And before you give the whole they played Tom Brady excuse, remember Brady's Patriots have been held to under 25 points in 5 of his 6 other AFC Championship appearances this decade and has been at least slowed down/held in check on multiple occasions in the post season, so playing Tom Brady is not a valid excuse to surrendering 36 points)

    Said Offense just came off a field goal fest in Kansas City where our "high-octane" offense didn't score a touchdown. That simply won't cut it against anyone, and the wagon fell off in New England.

    The 2016 Defense surrendered 36 points to one of the best quarterbacks in the game, who rallied from a 28-3 deficit two weeks later in Houston to win his fifth ring. Also, the Houston Texans "held" the Patriots in check the prior week and still gave up 34 points. Look, I get that you don't like Brady (none of us does), but you have to give respect when its due to a formidable opponent. "Sacksonville" the best Defense in the NFL just got done blowing a lead against the Patriots a few months ago. I guess they're not a good defense either, even though they kicked the Steelers asses twice at Heinz.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    I still do not understand why Keith Butler still has a job after the second half of the season and playoffs games of last year ....

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    If the Steelers defense was good enough in 2015, they would have never surrendered a game winning 65 yard TD drive to 39 year old Peyton Manning. The Broncos scored 23 points that game, while being slowed down by at least a half a dozen dropped passes by WRs that otherwise would have gone for first downs.

    The 2016 defense surrendered 36 points, and that was with the Patriots taking their foot off the gas due to it being a blowout, expecting the offense to bail out that kind of defensive showing is unreasonable. (And before you give the whole they played Tom Brady excuse, remember Brady's Patriots have been held to under 25 points in 5 of his 6 other AFC Championship appearances this decade and has been at least slowed down/held in check on multiple occasions in the post season, so playing Tom Brady is not a valid excuse to surrendering 36 points)

    Porous defense has been the main problem for the Steelers and the main issue holding them back in all of Keith Butler's years as DC (2015, 2016, AND 2017). It was also the main problem in 2014 as well
    I am tired our defense be at their worst at the worst possible time

    I can defend the game against the broncos in 2015, even if the broncos offense was atrocious, since our punter (Berry) was so bad that gave at least 3 free FG to the broncos,but I can not defend the other games

    Atrocious against the ravens in 2014, when the ravens had only had a punt and an turnovers on offense in this game and we all know what happened in the last two years ....

    It's almost bad as the Dom Capers defense that the packers have suffered, year after year after year in the playoffs.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    If so-and-so didn't happen, the score would've been worse!

    And if Ben plays halfway decently or the WR's can catch, or if Mike Mitchell isn't a moron, the Steelers very likely don't get blown out in Foxboro. We can play the if game over, over, and over.

    The 2016 defense surrendered 36 points, and that was with the Patriots taking their foot off the gas due to it being a blowout, expecting the offense to bail out that kind of defensive showing is unreasonable. (And before you give the whole they played Tom Brady excuse, remember Brady's Patriots have been held to under 25 points in 5 of his 6 other AFC Championship appearances this decade and has been at least slowed down/held in check on multiple occasions in the post season, so playing Tom Brady is not a valid excuse to surrendering 36 points)

    Said Offense just came off a field goal fest in Kansas City where our "high-octane" offense didn't score a touchdown. That simply won't cut it against anyone, and the wagon fell off in New England.

    The 2016 Defense surrendered 36 points to one of the best quarterbacks in the game, who rallied from a 28-3 deficit two weeks later in Houston to win his fifth ring. Also, the Houston Texans "held" the Patriots in check the prior week and still gave up 34 points. Look, I get that you don't like Brady (none of us does), but you have to give respect when its due to a formidable opponent. "Sacksonville" the best Defense in the NFL just got done blowing a lead against the Patriots a few months ago. I guess they're not a good defense either, even though they kicked the Steelers asses twice at Heinz.
    The patriots had a turnovers or a punt at least 50% of their drive against the texans and falcons and that's despite his defenses (HOU and ATL) were on the field for almost the entire game

    The steelers defense had only one stop in this game and it was in the first quarter!!!!

    If the steelers would have scored 40 points in this game in New England in 2016, the pats would have had at least 59 points and I say 59, since this is an unwritten rule in the nfl that when you are at 59 points, you can not score Other points .... that's how bad the Keith Butler defense is in the playoffs.


    Gives the steelers defense to the patriots against the jaguars and the result of the patriots in the AFC title game would have been worse than our defeat to us against the jags and that's despite the patriots defense were bad last year for one of the few times in the Brady era

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    I think the defense has a chance to be better than many are expecting. It may not happen immediately, but there are some pieces that need to develop within the system.

    I really like the DL. The starters are very good, and a more aggressive McCullers makes this group deeper.

    The OLB group has improved a bit with the addition of some young guys that have potential and look like they have better natural pass rushing skills than some backups they have had the last few years. Watt is a stud, and Dupree will be better this year because he's healthy. They're flipping sides, so there may be some adjustment, but it makes sense.

    The secondary may make some mistakes early because of all the new pieces, but they are more talented on the back end. Davis needs to step up at safety. If he doesn't play well this year, people will look back and say that Davis was the problem....not the answer. That said, there is a young stud waiting in the wings. Edmunds is going to get on the field in sub-packages. Just knowing that there is someone on the depth chart at the S position that has a chance to be a playmaker should be exciting to fans. There has been a "below the line" level of talent at the S position for years now. It is time for this position to become a strength. Burnett is key with his experience. Communication issues need to be solved, big plays need to be limited, and clean tackles need to be made to help get off the field. They have more talent at the position. Even a guy like Marcus Allen looks like a physical presence, and he can tackle....with decent hands. Bottom line.....this position should be stronger and deeper.

    I think the cornerbacks are a good group. I think Haden is going to be just fine. Burns needs to be more consistent, but has moments. Hilton is very good, and a healthy Sutton gives hope that they have enough quality guys to get some things done.

    The ILB position may end up determining how good this defense can be.

    I think Bostic is the correct choice to start next to Williams. He isn't up to full speed yet with the defense, but he is clearly a better player than Matakevich. Fort just looks better this year. I love how Matthew Thomas has progressed since becoming a pro. I think he has shown that he has enough skills and athletic ability that they need to find a way to get him on the field to get his feet wet and see what he can do. It may start in coverage on some third downs, and hopefully will evolve into more playing time if he proves he can hold up. If......and that is a big if Bostic and an athlete like Thomas are able to be effective players that make things happen on the field, the entire defense has a chance to take a big leap forward.

    We all understand how important it is to avoid huge injuries. If the defense stays relatively healthy, I think they have a chance to develop into a good defense as the year goes on. There are positions that need to step up, and there is some young talent that could emerge to help transform this D before the end of this season.

    Butler will sink or swim based on how well he orchestrates the new and moving pieces, and how well some develop. We shall see as it all plays out. I think they will be improved and end up better than they are expected to be by most fans.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    One of the biggest problems of this defense is Keith Butler ..... how many big play the steelers have given in the last couple years because of a communication problem and blown coverage?I wanted him to be fired after the AFC title game in 2016 and the second half of the season last year did not change my mind.

    It's like the packers with Dom Capers .... They have kept him too long .... at least 5 years too long

    I think this year, it's going to be the 2nd year of too long for Butler ..... I hope I'm wrong and that the steelers will not offer another atrocious defense game at the worst possible time again but I have doubts especially with the game against the Packers in the preseason when they gave up 37 points and 34 points in the first 35 minutes i think (if we exclude the 2 pick 6) against the two worst QB of last year!


    The other problems I have, every time this defense seems to have solved a problem, this defense has a new problem...Last year was the first time I saw this defense being so bad against the run ..... This defense was too soft.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    So with how the roster is being structured (to date) - only 3 OLBs on there, it really seems like what a lot of us were saying during/after the draft and in the preseason that it looks like the Safeties will play some sort of hybrid role this season is the route they are going.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    So with how the roster is being structured (to date) - only 3 OLBs on there, it really seems like what a lot of us were saying during/after the draft and in the preseason that it looks like the Safeties will play some sort of hybrid role this season is the route they are going.
    Watt(Hamstring issues all preseason) is a real question mark week 1.
    Dupree and Chickillo may see the majority of snaps for the Browns game.
    Lots of nickel blitzes?

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Watt(Hamstring issues all preseason) is a real question mark week 1.
    Dupree and Chickillo may see the majority of snaps for the Browns game.
    Lots of nickel blitzes?
    Might see Thomas at OLB in some packages???



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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    One of the biggest problems of this defense is Keith Butler ..... how many big play the steelers have given in the last couple years because of a communication problem and blown coverage?I wanted him to be fired after the AFC title game in 2016 and the second half of the season last year did not change my mind.

    It's like the packers with Dom Capers .... They have kept him too long .... at least 5 years too long

    I think this year, it's going to be the 2nd year of too long for Butler ..... I hope I'm wrong and that the steelers will not offer another atrocious defense game at the worst possible time again but I have doubts especially with the game against the Packers in the preseason when they gave up 37 points and 34 points in the first 35 minutes i think (if we exclude the 2 pick 6) against the two worst QB of last year!


    The other problems I have, every time this defense seems to have solved a problem, this defense has a new problem...Last year was the first time I saw this defense being so bad against the run ..... This defense was too soft.
    We can debate about the '15 and '16 defenses ad nauseum, but I'll definitely agree the Butler should've been given walking papers on January 15th, 2018. The 2017 Divisional Playoff is Butler's own Tebow game. Unfortunately, the Steelers haven't learned their lesson from the Lebeau years and are still holding on to a guy who clearly doesn't have what it takes.

    I have absolutely no faith whatsoever that the Steelers Defense will rise above the level of poor in 2018. I'm preparing as best as I can for a defensive shitshow this year.

    They have Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, David Carr, Cam Newton, and the world conquering Joe Flacco and Blake Bortles on deck this year.

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    And for the rankings, like points, yards and turnovers, I don't care, since last year the steelers were in the top 10 for yards and points, but we saw in the playoffs it was misleading ... .Same thing in 2011 ..... Sometimes Crash was right when he said that our defense was often overrated under LeBeau, but that's another story.

    If we take the example of the 2016 Falcons, their rankings were bad in defense, but they were good enough to win a super bowl in the playoffs against Wilson, Rodgers and Brady.

    I just want a defense that gives us a chance to win against every team and not be at their worst at the worst possible time, but I do not trust Dom Capers II (Keith Butler).

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Way back when, the Steelers were the only team running the 3-4. Ergo, they had their pick of OLBs, deep into the draft. Joey Porter was a R3 pick, who would be a top 20 pick in today’s NFL.

    A few years back, when TEs started to dominate, I suggested that the Steelers look at ‘tweener types: big safeties/small linebackers. Deone Bucannon was the perfect example of this.

    The Steelers have slowly been moving away from their base 3-4, with 70% of their snaps now fielding 5 DBs or more. They’ve added guys like Sean Davis & Cam Sutton (who can play anywhere in the secondary) and Terrell Edmunds, Morgan Burnett, & Marcus Allen (small ILBs).

    SUMMATION:
    I feel that we are on the brink of something special.

  30. #30
    Senior Member Array title="polamalubeast has a reputation beyond repute">

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    Re: Steelers 2018 Defense

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Way back when, the Steelers were the only team running the 3-4. Ergo, they had their pick of OLBs, deep into the draft. Joey Porter was a R3 pick, who would be a top 20 pick in today’s NFL.

    A few years back, when TEs started to dominate, I suggested that the Steelers look at ‘tweener types: big safeties/small linebackers. Deone Bucannon was the perfect example of this.

    The Steelers have slowly been moving away from their base 3-4, with 70% of their snaps now fielding 5 DBs or more. They’ve added guys like Sean Davis & Cam Sutton (who can play anywhere in the secondary) and Terrell Edmunds, Morgan Burnett, & Marcus Allen (small ILBs).

    SUMMATION:
    I feel that we are on the brink of something special.
    The talent is there and I think our stats are going to be good, but do you trust Keith Butler to take them to another level?

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