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Thread: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

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    Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    By SAM QUINN

    Artie Burns, like the rest of the Pittsburgh Steelers, made a very controversial decision before their Week 3 game against the Chicago Bears. The Steelers decided to sit out the National Anthem as a way to protest comments made by President Donald Trump. He remembers what followed: months of criticism, fans saying that they would give up the team, a whole lot of distractions that hindered the team's football performance. The decision that the Steelers made shined a light on them. It put a target on their back that made the center of the National Anthem debate whether they liked it or not.

    And now, Burns believes the NFL is doing that to all of its players.

    to read rest of article:

    https://www.scout.com/Article/Artie-...licy-118495166

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    He became the center of attention when he didn't want to be. That is what would happen to every player who protests under these rules. And Burns, like many other players who haven't been as vocally, finds that very unfair.
    When you protest publicly, by definition you are trying to make yourself the center of attention. But I suppose that doesn't occur to some people - like everything, it's just "unfair."

    As usual, Villanueva handled the situation in the most spot-on way.
    An empty victory is a victory nonetheless.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Burns just needs to focus on not being a bust and losing his job to Sutton.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    The NFL is a private enterprise and can implement whatever policy they want. If the players don't like it, there are plenty of other guys who would be more than happy to take their place.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Steve Kerr: NFL rule on protests during anthem 'idiotic,' 'pandering,' 'fake patriotism'

    Dan Devine Yahoo Sports
    May 24, 2018

    https://sports.yahoo.com/steve-kerr-...194648818.html

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    So they don't want to be singled out if they don't stand for the anthem? As if they would receive any less scorn than they already have? Also Artie should probably be more concerned with doing something other than celebrate a tackle after giving up a first down on the field and less about this

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    Steve Kerr: NFL rule on protests during anthem 'idiotic,' 'pandering,' 'fake patriotism'

    Dan Devine Yahoo Sports
    May 24, 2018

    https://sports.yahoo.com/steve-kerr-...194648818.html
    Dan Devine (D-CA), Yahoo Sports


    ... really though, the only political position that's good for business is no political position. Too bad for the NFL they let it go on long enough that taking that stance becomes a political position itself.

    Should've handled it like the NBA and gotten it over with before it got to that point. But what do you expect from a commissioner like Goodell who just does everything in reaction to the media. And the media loves making everything into political activism, so it was beyond easy to lead him down that path until ownership finally had to put its foot down.
    An empty victory is a victory nonetheless.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    While the NFL is a private business and can largely do whatever they want, they seem to continually forget that their employees are union. Any decisions the owners reached would've been far easier to implement with the NFLPA on their side. I believe this is how the NBA and MLB have mostly overcome this issue. League directives with at least the hint of taking the players unions opinion into account.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    While the NFL is a private business and can largely do whatever they want, they seem to continually forget that their employees are union. Any decisions the owners reached would've been far easier to implement with the NFLPA on their side. I believe this is how the NBA and MLB have mostly overcome this issue. League directives with at least the hint of taking the players unions opinion into account.
    In a practical sense, what are the union's options on this, though - threaten a strike? I don't think this is the kind of thing they'd think it's worth going to the mat over.

    What I expect will actually happen is some player to kneel anyway and get fined in order to prove a point, then the union to file a lawsuit over it in federal court, then the lawsuit to be thrown out months later on technical grounds like a "lack of standing" (oh, the irony) - with the net effect being just a lot of noise created.

    Then the player doesn't get re-signed by anyone the following offseason, and columnists from Yahoo Sports are outraged, making more noise.
    An empty victory is a victory nonetheless.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    In a practical sense, what are the union's options on this, though - threaten a strike? I don't think this is the kind of thing they'd think it's worth going to the mat over.

    What I expect will actually happen is some player to kneel anyway and get fined in order to prove a point, then the union to file a lawsuit over it in federal court, then the lawsuit to be thrown out months later on technical grounds like a "lack of standing" (oh, the irony) - with the net effect being just a lot of noise created.

    Then the player doesn't get re-signed by anyone the following offseason, and columnists from Yahoo Sports are outraged, making more noise.
    if I'm not mistaken the NFL will not fine the player, only the team.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    if I'm not mistaken the NFL will not fine the player, only the team.
    Right, and then it's up to the team whether they want to fine the player or not. Which I imagine they will, because if they don't, then it'll be setting a bad precedent of the team being ok with paying the price for the individual player's actions, and then there will be an uproar from a certain segment of fans saying they might as well be condoning the protests, they're effectively paying the player to kneel, ans so on. Not to mention if they do change their mind and start fining the player, there'll be an uproar over THAT, too, only from the opposite side of the fan base. So they'll have pissed off two groups of people for the price of one.

    Or maybe they let it slide the first time with a warning that if you do it again, it's coming out of your own pocket. I don't expect the teams to eat the fine on an ongoing basis, though. Maybe Seattle and San Francisco will.

    One thing that's for certain - they sure left the door open for more controversy by taking a wishy-washy approach with 10 rules and contingencies where one sentence would do. But that's the NFL for you.
    An empty victory is a victory nonetheless.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Right, and then it's up to the team whether they want to fine the player or not. Which I imagine they will, because if they don't, then it'll be setting a bad precedent of the team being ok with paying the price for the individual player's actions, and then there will be an uproar from a certain segment of fans saying they might as well be condoning the protests, they're effectively paying the player to kneel, ans so on. Not to mention if they do change their mind and start fining the player, there'll be an uproar over THAT, too, only from the opposite side of the fan base. So they'll have pissed off two groups of people for the price of one.

    Or maybe they let it slide the first time with a warning that if you do it again, it's coming out of your own pocket. I don't expect the teams to eat the fine on an ongoing basis, though. Maybe Seattle and San Francisco will.

    One thing that's for certain - they sure left the door open for more controversy by taking a wishy-washy approach with 10 rules and contingencies where one sentence would do. But that's the NFL for you.
    Jets acting owner: I'll pay fines if my players don't stand for national anthem

    By CHRISTOPHER BRITO CBS NEWS
    May 23, 2018

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-yor...esident-trump/

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    In a characteristic profile in courage Goodell and the owners avoided accountability by not formally voting to approve or reject the latest way to further screw the matter up

    The NFL did not take a formal roll-call vote when it passed its new national anthem resolution that will take effect this season, league spokesman Brian McCarthy confirmed Thursday....

    Sources told ESPN's Seth Wickersham that league officials wanted to make sure that the resolution would not fail, and so after hours of debate they called for the show of hands. The informal nature of it surprised some in the room. Not taking an official tally is atypical for a major resolution.

    No surprise Roger lied about how the vote ended up

    Later Thursday, Oakland Raiders owner Mark Davis confirmed what [ESPN] reported earlier -- that he abstained from the vote....

    NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said Wednesday the vote was "unanimous" among owners, although San Francisco 49ers owner Jed York said he abstained.

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...em-policy-vote

    This from AJR II

    “I don't expect it to be an issue with this team with the leadership we have on this team and the communication we have in this building,” he said. “We didn't have an issue last year. For some reason, people don't seem to remember that, but we didn't have a player kneel last year."

    http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...tisfy-everyone

    No worries - if any issues flare up Ben will make a radio appearance on 93.7 and calm everything down

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Burns just needs to focus on not being a bust and losing his job to Sutton.
    this

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    Jets acting owner: I'll pay fines if my players don't stand for national anthem

    By CHRISTOPHER BRITO CBS NEWS
    May 23, 2018

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/new-yor...esident-trump/
    his tune may change if the fine increases week by week and starts high to begin with .. sure 20k no big deal 200k well might be a bit different

    - - - Updated - - -

    point is if protest were not hurting the league in the bottom line they wouldnt make rule changes ....

    it might not affected a lot of games in the stands but I bet it damn sure hurt merchandise sales a huge part of the NFL revenue machine
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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by salamander View Post
    The NFL is a private enterprise and can implement whatever policy they want. If the players don't like it, there are plenty of other guys who would be more than happy to take their place.

    Aaaand this is why unions exist. To prevent unchecked authoritarianism. Players union was given zero say in this matter. Why does it even exist if thats the case?
    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    We are not Buffalo, We are not Miami. We are the Steelers, we dont blow out teams, we cock tease for ratings and keep games close.
    Final Mock Draft: 1st-OLB TJ Watt, 2nd-S Josh Jones, 3rd-QB Brad Kaaya 3rd- CB Rasul Douglas 4th-RB Marlon Mack, 5th- CB Damontae Kazee 6th- OLB Javancy Jones, 7th WR Jehu Chesson, UDFA: ILB Ben Boulware, SS Tedric Thompson, TE Scott Orndoff, DT Patrick Gamble

    Desired Mock Draft: 1st-OLB TJ Watt, 2nd-S Jabrill Peppers, 3rd-TE Jake Butt, 3rd-RB Marlon Mack, 4th-CB Jourdan Lewis, 5th-CB Rasul Douglas, 6th-OLB Javancy Jones 7th-WR Jehu Chesson, UDFA: SS Tedric Thompson, ILB Ben Boulware, DE Ifeadi Odenigbo, QB Chad Kelly

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    this

    - - - Updated - - -



    his tune may change if the fine increases week by week and starts high to begin with .. sure 20k no big deal 200k well might be a bit different

    - - - Updated - - -

    point is if protest were not hurting the league in the bottom line they wouldnt make rule changes ....

    it might not affected a lot of games in the stands but I bet it damn sure hurt merchandise sales a huge part of the NFL revenue machine
    It is a no win situation - no matter what the NFL did now was going to antagonize a significant portion of the fan base - these poll results were published today

    Overall, 42 percent of U.S. adults said it is sometimes appropriate to protest by kneeling during the national anthem while 53 percent said it is “never appropriate” in the Post-Kaiser survey conducted in January and February....

    Opinions are deeply divided along partisan, racial and ethnic lines. Fully 86 percent of Republicans said it’s never appropriate to kneel during the national anthem as a form of protest. That drops down to just about half of independents (51 percent) and less than 3 in 10 Democrats (29 percent) who said the same; 66 percent of Democrats said protesting the anthem is sometimes appropriate.

    By a 69 percent to 22 percent margin, more African Americans said protests of the national anthem were acceptable than not. Yet over half of white (58 percent) and Hispanic adults (54 percent) said anthem protests are never appropriate. Whites are internally divided along partisan lines: 87 percent of white Republicans said it is never appropriate to kneel during the national anthem, compared with 24 percent of white Democrats....

    The poll finds older and younger Americans also differ significantly on the issue. Among adults ages 50 and older, 63 percent say kneeling during the national anthem is never appropriate, compared with 50 percent among those ages 30-49 and 38 percent of people ages 18-29. Among this youngest group, a 57 percent majority say anthem protests are appropriate.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2018/05/23/poll-53-percent-of-americans-say-its-never-appropriate-to-kneel-during-the-national-anthem/?utm_term=.10238b6ded9a

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/page/...ml?tid=a_mcntx

    As posted above, MLB and the NBA avoided this mess and never got to the point of fans choosing sides on anthem protests. As other posters have stated, that may have something to do with players in those leagues having more clout in employee-management matters compared to the long NFL tradition of treating players as interchangeable inventory that you discard as soon as it wears out

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    It is a no win situation - no matter what the NFL did now was going to antagonize a significant portion of the fan base - these poll results were published today

    Overall, 42 percent of U.S. adults said it is sometimes appropriate to protest by kneeling during the national anthem while 53 percent said it is “never appropriate” in the Post-Kaiser survey conducted in January and February....

    Opinions are deeply divided along partisan, racial and ethnic lines. Fully 86 percent of Republicans said it’s never appropriate to kneel during the national anthem as a form of protest. That drops down to just about half of independents (51 percent) and less than 3 in 10 Democrats (29 percent) who said the same; 66 percent of Democrats said protesting the anthem is sometimes appropriate.

    By a 69 percent to 22 percent margin, more African Americans said protests of the national anthem were acceptable than not. Yet over half of white (58 percent) and Hispanic adults (54 percent) said anthem protests are never appropriate. Whites are internally divided along partisan lines: 87 percent of white Republicans said it is never appropriate to kneel during the national anthem, compared with 24 percent of white Democrats....

    The poll finds older and younger Americans also differ significantly on the issue. Among adults ages 50 and older, 63 percent say kneeling during the national anthem is never appropriate, compared with 50 percent among those ages 30-49 and 38 percent of people ages 18-29. Among this youngest group, a 57 percent majority say anthem protests are appropriate.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.10238b6ded9a

    As posted above, MLB and the NBA avoided this mess and never got to the point of fans choosing sides on anthem protests. As other posters have stated, that may have something to do with players in those leagues having more clout in employee-management matters

    compared to the long NFL tradition of treating players as interchangeable inventory that you discard as soon as it wears out

    It sounds to me Dan, like the NFL is simply running their business....like a business?

    Do you keep a player when you have better options to help your team win?
    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    No matter what they did, a large portion of people were going to be pissed off. It's just a sad product of today's bitterly partisan environment with seemingly a majority of people holding attitudes such as "I'm right, your wrong" and "If you are not 100% for my side, you are against me" with fans flamed by inflammatory rhetoric from politicians and forms of media (from both extremes). Frankly, the worst thing to come out of this is it fans the flames, the story had lost steam throughout the year and this reignites it

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86 View Post
    Aaaand this is why unions exist. To prevent unchecked authoritarianism. Players union was given zero say in this matter. Why does it even exist if thats the case?
    If the union has an issue with it, can they not challenge the league regarding the policy? If they can and choose not to, then that's on the union.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    It sounds to me Dan, like the NFL is simply running their business....like a business?
    So are the NBA and MLB - it is a matter of how you run it

    Some businesses are run like Amazon and some successes of the past are run into the ground like Sears

    Roger Goodell as a commissioner was born on third base as a consequence of the owners and commissioners who built the league but thinks it means he hit a triple

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    It is a no win situation - no matter what the NFL did now was going to antagonize a significant portion of the fan base - these poll results were published today

    Overall, 42 percent of U.S. adults said it is sometimes appropriate to protest by kneeling during the national anthem while 53 percent said it is “never appropriate” in the Post-Kaiser survey conducted in January and February....

    Opinions are deeply divided along partisan, racial and ethnic lines. Fully 86 percent of Republicans said it’s never appropriate to kneel during the national anthem as a form of protest. That drops down to just about half of independents (51 percent) and less than 3 in 10 Democrats (29 percent) who said the same; 66 percent of Democrats said protesting the anthem is sometimes appropriate.

    By a 69 percent to 22 percent margin, more African Americans said protests of the national anthem were acceptable than not. Yet over half of white (58 percent) and Hispanic adults (54 percent) said anthem protests are never appropriate. Whites are internally divided along partisan lines: 87 percent of white Republicans said it is never appropriate to kneel during the national anthem, compared with 24 percent of white Democrats....

    The poll finds older and younger Americans also differ significantly on the issue. Among adults ages 50 and older, 63 percent say kneeling during the national anthem is never appropriate, compared with 50 percent among those ages 30-49 and 38 percent of people ages 18-29. Among this youngest group, a 57 percent majority say anthem protests are appropriate.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2018/05/23/poll-53-percent-of-americans-say-its-never-appropriate-to-kneel-during-the-national-anthem/?utm_term=.10238b6ded9a

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/page/...ml?tid=a_mcntx

    As posted above, MLB and the NBA avoided this mess and never got to the point of fans choosing sides on anthem protests. As other posters have stated, that may have something to do with players in those leagues having more clout in employee-management matters compared to the long NFL tradition of treating players as interchangeable inventory that you discard as soon as it wears out

    goes to show you the lack of respect from a large segment of our younger generation ...

    but why should this surprise us in terms of the Anthem , they do not even respect their parents for the most part ...

    if there is 1 symbol in this nation that should be respected at all times it is the flag and its waiving during that anthem ...

    you could not show that disrespect in probably any other nation in the world without consequence and that alone should be reason to give it respect ...

    if you will not do it for country do it for this nations fallen that provided you the right and ability to do so ...

    thats just my take I am sure someone will disagree because if nobody does that speaks volumes about the accuracy of the poll at least in terms of a small sample size we have here that is in fact a diverse group
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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Remember “flag burning”?

    Same discussion... 30 years later.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by salamander View Post
    If the union has an issue with it, can they not challenge the league regarding the policy? If they can and choose not to, then that's on the union.
    For whatever reason, they can't. They literally were not even invited to be in a position to challenge, concede, and/or compromise on the subject at hand.

    Your CEO allows the creation of a workers union in your company. Said union has no actual power so your power stands untested.

    This is not directed towards you salamander but to anybody reading: Football fans, especially Steelers fans hate the disproportionate and unchecked power that Roger Goodell has but they'll be totally cool with a lack of due process if they like a decision. But that's none of my business. Im looking forward to hearing contradicting validations below.

    Personally I just watch the game, not the pregame. Who cares what shenanigans goes on before or after as long as no one's hurt. Want the issue to go away? Stop eating up the artificially manufactured "news" story that is kneeling. When the consumers pay a ton of attention, the media makes their pretty penny. The only reason this should be in the news at all is to show the power dynamics within the NFL between Goodell, owners, the players, consumers, and the media.
    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    We are not Buffalo, We are not Miami. We are the Steelers, we dont blow out teams, we cock tease for ratings and keep games close.
    Final Mock Draft: 1st-OLB TJ Watt, 2nd-S Josh Jones, 3rd-QB Brad Kaaya 3rd- CB Rasul Douglas 4th-RB Marlon Mack, 5th- CB Damontae Kazee 6th- OLB Javancy Jones, 7th WR Jehu Chesson, UDFA: ILB Ben Boulware, SS Tedric Thompson, TE Scott Orndoff, DT Patrick Gamble

    Desired Mock Draft: 1st-OLB TJ Watt, 2nd-S Jabrill Peppers, 3rd-TE Jake Butt, 3rd-RB Marlon Mack, 4th-CB Jourdan Lewis, 5th-CB Rasul Douglas, 6th-OLB Javancy Jones 7th-WR Jehu Chesson, UDFA: SS Tedric Thompson, ILB Ben Boulware, DE Ifeadi Odenigbo, QB Chad Kelly

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    For me the flag symbolizes a great many things. Not the least of which is each individual citizens ability to pick and choose how and when they express their opinions and politics. No one has to like or agree with the expression of those political opinions but the entire point of the uniquely American experiment in democracy is to be able to enact that expression relatively free of consequences.

    Anything else is not the Constitutional freedoms we are all granted. If individual employees wish to risk the items of their employees to express political speech, that's their deal.

    Had a potential employer reade the riot act for a candidate bumper sticker on my car during an interview. Told him that if I used the car for work purposes, Id remove the sticker. Outside of that, it wasn't his business. We talked it out, and I got the job. Details are different, but this is the same shit.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    National Anthem boss Maurkice Pouncey says Steelers will stand

    By JIM WEXELL

    https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh...tand-118496473

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Go to your workplace and refuse to do your job because of your political beliefs, drive away customers and hurt business.

    Do that and see if you're employed for very long.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    "I like football. I like football season and all the things that go with it." -Bill Belichick.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    For me the flag symbolizes a great many things. Not the least of which is each individual citizens ability to pick and choose how and when they express their opinions and politics. No one has to like or agree with the expression of those political opinions but the entire point of the uniquely American experiment in democracy is to be able to enact that expression relatively free of consequences.

    Anything else is not the Constitutional freedoms we are all granted. If individual employees wish to risk the items of their employees to express political speech, that's their deal.

    Had a potential employer reade the riot act for a candidate bumper sticker on my car during an interview. Told him that if I used the car for work purposes, Id remove the sticker. Outside of that, it wasn't his business. We talked it out, and I got the job. Details are different, but this is the same shit.
    It’s a Catch-22.

    If a person is is not allowed to protest (kneel for the Anthem, burn a flag) without repercussion, then that person lives in a country that is not actually free.

    But, if that person is free enough to protest (kneel for the Anthem, burn a flag) without repercussion, then that person lives in a country that is indeed free.


    So... the person who is free enough to protest about their freedom is actually proving how free they truly are.


    Stopping the protestor from displaying their freedom, actually proves their point (they are in fact “not free”).

    Whereas, allowing the protestor to display their freedom, actually disproves their point (they are in fact very free).

    SUMMATION:
    It’s a circular logic problem, akin to saying “This statement is false”

  29. #29
    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    It’s a Catch-22.

    If a person is is not allowed to protest (kneel for the Anthem, burn a flag) without repercussion, then that person lives in a country that is not actually free.

    But, if that person is free enough to protest (kneel for the Anthem, burn a flag) without repercussion, then that person lives in a country that is indeed free.
    Funny huh? For some the flag is a symbol of freedom, but they are being penalized for freedom of expression. Sounds like hypocrisy.

    ...and what are they actually expressing? Is it that the racial inequality that is part of the history books of America, is still present today to a lesser, but still unjust extent? Is it that police are more apt to react with violence to a black man in a hoodie, than a white man in a hoodie?


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    Senior Member Array title="Fire Goodell has a reputation beyond repute"> Fire Goodell's Avatar

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    I think it's stupid honestly. Since when is kneeling a sign of disrespect? People kneel in prayer or bow to the king the same way. It's not like the guy is standing there and taking a leak or throwing middle fingers up as the anthem is playing lol.

    I've served in the military and quite honestly, as a veteran, I could give a crap about who stands for the flag. It's their choice, and we fought for people's freedom to choose. If anything, forcing people to stand is taking away a choice which doesn't seem very American to me.

    But hey the NFL is a private business and by law they can do this. And instead of kneeling, players will still protest (some raise their fist up, which is still allowed)


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