Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
They most certainly are responding to the President using his power as a political official to stir up his base by taking shots at the NFL players
This issue was dead in the water until the President stirred it up - that is a fact regardless of a person's opinion on whether stirring it up was appropriate or inappropriate - and the owners are scared to death
This from the NFL owners meeting last fall that leaked regarding what problem they were addressing
“The problem we have is, we have a president who will use that as fodder to do his mission that I don’t feel is in the best interests of America,” said Kraft, who is a longtime supporter of Mr. Trump’s. “It’s divisive and it’s horrible.”
The owners were intent on finding a way to avoid Trump’s continued criticism....
“We’ve got to be careful not to be baited by Trump or whomever else,” Lurie said. “We have to find a way to not be divided and not get baited.”
The Buffalo Bills owner Terry Pegula sounded anguished over the uncertainty of when Trump would take another shot at the league. “All Donald needs to do is to start to do this again,” Pegula said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/s...aepernick.html
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That any player who does not stand for the anthem should either leave the country voluntarily or be deported?
Seriously?
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
If workplace policy dictates that you stand for the anthem, then you stand. If you don't like it the CFL is that way -------->
I will take the players at their word when they stated they were protesting conditions in this country they saw as unjust and, with regard to the cluster of week 3 last season, being called out by an elected official so someone could put some political points on the board
You can like living here and be a patriot without loving every aspect of life in the U.S. in these times
As far as the President mixing it up on this with his latest comments, that is a different issue from NFL owners dealing with blowback from some of the fanbase
The nation has been down this road before with elected officials seeking to compel compliance with patriotic rituals
Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard....
To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous, instead of a compulsory routine, is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds....
If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.
West Virginia State Board of Education v Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../624/case.html
Dude. No ones seeking to "compel compliance with patriotic rituals." If they don't want to take part in it, they're free to skip it and stay in the locker room.
Those who DO want to take part will probably appreciate not having other people drawing attention to themselves and their polarizing political cause.
I think it's a HUGE stretch to call the playing of the national anthem before a sporting event a piece of patriotic propaganda, since they had been doing it for decades and decades, and no one ever looked at it that way until a group of people with an agenda came along and (rather rudely) insisted it was a political stunt.
No, dude. It's a moment to chill and reflect on the fact that "you know, all things considered, it's pretty cool that I can sit here and watch this basketball game with all these people, and despite all our differences we have some fundamental stuff in common and things are not so bad." Actually a positive thing that has little if anything to do with the government or the military, if you allow yourself to just ... be.
So when someone cones along and wants to change the message to "Fuck you! Half the players hate your guts! OMG political OUTRAGE!!!" ... yeah, some people are not gonna appreciate that. Not because they're paranoid nationalist die-hard Trump supporters, but because they see a rude person interrupting a sporting event with poorly timed political commentary.
See you Space Cowboy ...
screw them ..if they want to change the world join the military ... find out what its like to REALLY put your life on the line and for one hell of a lot less money ...
they act as if they are some martyr's or some shit ....
heads so swelled like they are the cats meow ....
newsflash you play a childs game better than most
you are not MLK , you are not Claudette Colvin or even Rosa Parks
be thankful for the opportunities you have been granted in THIS Nation and respect THIS nations flag and anthem
or you could always move if this place sucks so badly
sorry I am not sorry ...
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
Wow!!! ...there’s a lot of posts to reply to.
I better go get some coffee. (BRB)
Dude - FWIW I sing the anthem and am not off at the concession stand when I am attending a game, although the NFL certainly keeps the registers ringing while the anthem is played. So I suppose there are varying degrees of what level of respect is regarded to be appropriate if you are at the game.
The players, coaches, owners and fans can each do what they want about this as far as I am concerned. - in their own ways they are all part of the game and have a role in how it operates - politicians making cheap political points are not. This was petering out as an issue last September until the President interjected himself into it
And I am not saying the owners latest policy is seeking to compel a player to stand during the anthem - they can hang in the locker room
I was referring to a politician doubling down on previous comments by saying someone who does not stand for the anthem perhaps should not remain in the country, with the implication it might not be up to the individual whether to stay if engaging in that conduct
The president appeared to suggest deporting players who protest during the national anthem
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/t...n-the-country/
If a player continues to kneel rather than hang in the locker room the owners can discipline him (although some pretty clearly are not going to do so).
But any suggestion that any kneeling or other protest might merit someone being compelled to leave the country is nonsense and would be laughed out of court as patently unconstitutional if the government sought to compel such an outcome through deportation.
And the bottom line is Adam Schefter accurately states where we are at now
Artie wants 17 millon a year.
Okay... where to begin.
-I must iterate that the amount of focus that goes towards the protest itself (kneel vs. stand) far outweighs the amount of focus on the actual problem (bad cops).
-I think that there are two discussions going on here.
1) Kneeling anywhere, any time.
2) Kneeling before a game (at work).
1) I am 100% for people having the freedom to protest as they deem fit. 2) I get that the NFL is a work place, and just like when I worked at SeaWorld, there were rules that I had to follow in order to work there (no facial hair). That said, I also feel that if a person has the spotlight and is able to focus that spotlight on a problem, they have an obligation to do so. Lastly, I also feel that this issue had died away, but got resurrected by Goodell/Trump.
-Good post, pczach. That said, I do not quite agree with the shouting Fire in a movie theater analogy. Shouting Fire causes a stampede, and people get hurt. Kneeling doesnt have any adverse effects.
-As far as deporting players... here is an analogy. I love my wife, but I do not agree with 100% of what she says/does; at best, we are in 90% agreement. Yet, Ive never told her to get out of the house over a disagreement.
-Dwins, I admire your passion. And, heres what I always tell people when we discuss the First Amendment: people have the right to say/do things, but other people have the right to feel anger towards those people for the things that they say/do. So, while I back the protestors rights to protest, I also completely back you in your disdain (for lack of a better word) for their actions. In a way... your reaction is what they are hoping for, because that visceral reaction brings a LOT of attention (positive and negative) to their cause. (Make sense?)
I know now that I missed something... need some more coffee (and bourbon).
The biggest problem is Trump comments on the issue which further fan the flames to try and distract people from the fact that he and his party are spending money like drunken sailors. Seriously, I hope this issue dies by the end of the year as I couldn't care less who stands and who doesn't. I just want bitter partisanship out of the NFL
I text him & Jon daily. It goes something like this...
BUDDHA: What are you guys doing this weekend?
ME: Glamping
BUDDHA: Nice. Bringing the satellite dish?
ME: LOL no, but we are having root beer floats
BUDDHA: you should pour a stout instead
ME: I don’t think my kids could handle that LOL
BUDDHA: I’m off to the Mt. Hope beer fest
ME: enjoy
JON: I’m going to shower with my dogs...
Is it really worth replying to??
This board is somewhat representative of the general population, so its not surprising to see some that again, either don't hear or don't want to discuss the real reason that players took a knee in the first place. Instead its about the flag, the military, patriotism. There are viewpoints that people have, which have been passed along for generations and those aren't likely to change on a message board.
http://▶ 0:20 <a href="https://www.f...379806303/</a>
perhaps because THAT is what the flag and anthem have ALWAYS been about ....
until they came along and tried to change it " because they claimed that is different for them "
well excuse me then Thanksgiving is NOW about everyone giving me their paychecks for 6 months ....
if you do not do that then you are offending my cause
Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now
So if both teams kneel it will offsetting penalties right? The NFL will look stupid when that happens. Honestly I'm a corporate guy so I fully agree with a workplace policy dictating that you can or cannot stand. I just think the NFL could have saved themselves a ton of trouble by just keeping both teams in the locker room while the anthem is being played. Like it was pre 2001
I think there should be a mandatory draft, minimum one year for all healthy male & females (18 year olds). Military, peace corps, charity organizations, etc outside the US. No better way to serve someone else and put some real experience behind this chicken shit here in the US.
Or we could work on the fact that a white kid can execute school children, engage in a shootout with police and live while a black or brown dude can be shot or assualted by the police while driving, walking home, helping a mentally ill person in a public street, or working at a construction site (all things that have happened since the start of the anthem protests).
But heaven forbid any gentle soul is made to feel mildly uncomfortable for 5 minutes 17 weeks out of the year.
If people had the same attitudes as being expressed here we would have all celebrated the royal wedding as loyal Commonwealth subjects, women wouldn't vote, nor would non-whites, their wouldn't be unions, some of us would be barred from owning property, maybe put in debtor's prison, etc. All of those social changes and more were brought about by protest movement s that were WILDLY unpopular at their start.
A brown kid shot up that high-school in Florida and he wasn't shot or beaten. That's a pretty broad brush stroke you're trying to sell there Mojouw
I never said that they couldn't bring awareness to injustices being committed in this country, but we are talking about WORK PLACE policies, NO ONE is saying these guys can't protest on their free time. ESPN would do a segment on this everyday if players wanted that forum, and honestly they would probably reach a broader audience. This isn't about stomping on someone's rights, when you sign a work contract or an NFL contract you are bound to their rules and regulations. Why is that so hard for people to understand? Can you go to work just wearing a swimsuit and flip-flops? I highly doubt it.
The majority of liberal protesters have no idea what they are even protesters or facts to back up their emotions , they just want attention and to feel better about themselves. Organizers are often Democratic contributors just trying to drum up support for their party. Kaepernick himself started this just because he wanted attention. He was silent while others were protesting trayvon Martin and Michael Brown because he was receiving enough attention as the starting qb on a recent super bowl and as a guy some billed as the next great 9ers qb who had gotten paid like it. He didn't start protesting until he was in danger of losing his starting job to Blaine gabbert and of becoming completely irrelevant.
I get that. I'm just trying to understand why people are advocating for deportation because someone made them fell icky for a hot minute.
My personal belief is that the league is to blame by trying to thread a needle for several years now on this issue. Should've just said from the beginning that anyone who cashes an NFL paycheck had to stand when on the field. Anyone not on the field, do whatever. Which is basically where they landed after the horse had already left the barn and the barn was on fire.