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Thread: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    The problem is teeg that if those same people are free to make that statement, it is their owner that ultimately pays the penalty of that action in the form of income loss. Once that happens, the owner has the right to demand that those actions don't take place. You can't do whatever you want to do on the work floor. Sorry, but that is a fact.

    If the players were a privately owned entity, they could do whatever they want. As long as they work for someone else, they must conduct themselves in a way that is acceptable to the owner.

    We live in a free country but you can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded movie theater.

    People that don't own the company cannot do or say whatever they feel like saying at the expense of the very company they are representing and are getting paid by.

    In their own time, any of these players can go on radio, go on TV, make Facebook and Twitter statements, or any form of media they desire. If that is what they desire to do. However, every other free individual in this country can tell them they're full of shit, they disagree, they're offended, etc... They can even decide to not buy their jersey, or decide to not support the team they play for anymore. That's real freedom at work.

    The players want to be able to say whatever they want with no ramifications. Life and freedom do not work that way.
    if it did Martavis Bryant wouldn't have got a team susp last year of 1 game for a twitter tirade .... he was FREE to do it , but it was not FREE of consequences
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    I don't know what to tell you, except that if you think the NFL owners are taking orders from Donald Trump, you're almost certainly mistaken. Those guys all have egos just as big as his, and know full well he can't make them do anything.

    If anything, Trump gets all the activists fired up every time he opens his big mouth, then the media gets fired up (same people, really), then the issue gets turned over again, then more people join the protest basically just to spite Trump. So in a way, maybe he forces the issue by ensuring it keeps being brought up over and over. I don't know if that's randomly or on purpose; the latter would take a kind of savvy that I don't know if he has.

    Yeah, it really would help if the guy would keep his mouth shut. What power does the government really have over it, though? None at all.
    They most certainly are responding to the President using his power as a political official to stir up his base by taking shots at the NFL players

    This issue was dead in the water until the President stirred it up - that is a fact regardless of a person's opinion on whether stirring it up was appropriate or inappropriate - and the owners are scared to death

    This from the NFL owners meeting last fall that leaked regarding what problem they were addressing

    “The problem we have is, we have a president who will use that as fodder to do his mission that I don’t feel is in the best interests of America,” said Kraft, who is a longtime supporter of Mr. Trump’s. “It’s divisive and it’s horrible.”

    The owners were intent on finding a way to avoid Trump’s continued criticism....

    “We’ve got to be careful not to be baited by Trump or whomever else,” Lurie said. “We have to find a way to not be divided and not get baited.”

    The Buffalo Bills owner Terry Pegula sounded anguished over the uncertainty of when Trump would take another shot at the league. “All Donald needs to do is to start to do this again,” Pegula said.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/s...aepernick.html

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    maybe he is right ?
    That any player who does not stand for the anthem should either leave the country voluntarily or be deported?

    Seriously?

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    They most certainly are responding to the President using his power as a political official to stir up his base by taking shots at the NFL players

    This issue was dead in the water until the President stirred it up - that is a fact regardless of a person's opinion on whether stirring it up was appropriate or inappropriate - and the owners are scared to death

    This from the NFL owners meeting last fall that leaked regarding what problem they were addressing

    “The problem we have is, we have a president who will use that as fodder to do his mission that I don’t feel is in the best interests of America,” said Kraft, who is a longtime supporter of Mr. Trump’s. “It’s divisive and it’s horrible.”

    The owners were intent on finding a way to avoid Trump’s continued criticism....

    “We’ve got to be careful not to be baited by Trump or whomever else,” Lurie said. “We have to find a way to not be divided and not get baited.”

    The Buffalo Bills owner Terry Pegula sounded anguished over the uncertainty of when Trump would take another shot at the league. “All Donald needs to do is to start to do this again,” Pegula said.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/25/s...aepernick.html

    - - - Updated - - -



    That any player who does not stand for the anthem should either leave the country voluntarily or be deported?


    Seriously?
    they are not very American in spirit , maybe there is someplace else they would be more happy ... I say give it a shot leave .... maybe then you will realize just how good you had it


    grass isnt always greener on the other side of that fence
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    That any player who does not stand for the anthem should either leave the country voluntarily or be deported?

    Seriously?
    If the reason they are not standing is that they don't like it here?? Yes, there's the door.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    If workplace policy dictates that you stand for the anthem, then you stand. If you don't like it the CFL is that way -------->


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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by 43Hitman View Post
    If workplace policy dictates that you stand for the anthem, then you stand. If you don't like it the CFL is that way -------->
    or this way...

    /\
    I
    I
    I
    I

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    or this way...

    /\
    I
    I
    I
    I


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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    If the reason they are not standing is that they don't like it here?? Yes, there's the door.
    I will take the players at their word when they stated they were protesting conditions in this country they saw as unjust and, with regard to the cluster of week 3 last season, being called out by an elected official so someone could put some political points on the board

    You can like living here and be a patriot without loving every aspect of life in the U.S. in these times

    As far as the President mixing it up on this with his latest comments, that is a different issue from NFL owners dealing with blowback from some of the fanbase

    The nation has been down this road before with elected officials seeking to compel compliance with patriotic rituals

    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard....

    To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous, instead of a compulsory routine, is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds....

    If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.

    West Virginia State Board of Education v Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../624/case.html

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    I will take the players at their word when they stated they were protesting conditions in this country they saw as unjust and, with regard to the cluster of week 3 last season, being called out by an elected official so someone could put some political points on the board

    You can like living here and be a patriot without loving every aspect of life in the U.S. in these times

    As far as the President mixing it up on this with his latest comments, that is a different issue from NFL owners dealing with blowback from some of the fanbase

    The nation has been down this road before with elected officials seeking to compel compliance with patriotic rituals

    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard....

    To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous, instead of a compulsory routine, is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds....

    If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.

    West Virginia State Board of Education v Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../624/case.html
    Dude. No ones seeking to "compel compliance with patriotic rituals." If they don't want to take part in it, they're free to skip it and stay in the locker room.

    Those who DO want to take part will probably appreciate not having other people drawing attention to themselves and their polarizing political cause.

    I think it's a HUGE stretch to call the playing of the national anthem before a sporting event a piece of patriotic propaganda, since they had been doing it for decades and decades, and no one ever looked at it that way until a group of people with an agenda came along and (rather rudely) insisted it was a political stunt.

    No, dude. It's a moment to chill and reflect on the fact that "you know, all things considered, it's pretty cool that I can sit here and watch this basketball game with all these people, and despite all our differences we have some fundamental stuff in common and things are not so bad." Actually a positive thing that has little if anything to do with the government or the military, if you allow yourself to just ... be.

    So when someone cones along and wants to change the message to "Fuck you! Half the players hate your guts! OMG political OUTRAGE!!!" ... yeah, some people are not gonna appreciate that. Not because they're paranoid nationalist die-hard Trump supporters, but because they see a rude person interrupting a sporting event with poorly timed political commentary.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    I will take the players at their word when they stated they were protesting conditions in this country they saw as unjust and, with regard to the cluster of week 3 last season, being called out by an elected official so someone could put some political points on the board

    You can like living here and be a patriot without loving every aspect of life in the U.S. in these times

    As far as the President mixing it up on this with his latest comments, that is a different issue from NFL owners dealing with blowback from some of the fanbase

    The nation has been down this road before with elected officials seeking to compel compliance with patriotic rituals

    Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard....

    To believe that patriotism will not flourish if patriotic ceremonies are voluntary and spontaneous, instead of a compulsory routine, is to make an unflattering estimate of the appeal of our institutions to free minds....

    If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein.

    West Virginia State Board of Education v Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

    https://supreme.justia.com/cases/fed.../624/case.html

    screw them ..if they want to change the world join the military ... find out what its like to REALLY put your life on the line and for one hell of a lot less money ...

    they act as if they are some martyr's or some shit ....

    heads so swelled like they are the cats meow ....

    newsflash you play a childs game better than most

    you are not MLK , you are not Claudette Colvin or even Rosa Parks

    be thankful for the opportunities you have been granted in THIS Nation and respect THIS nations flag and anthem

    or you could always move if this place sucks so badly

    sorry I am not sorry ...
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Wow!!! ...there’s a lot of posts to reply to.

    I better go get some coffee. (BRB)

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Wow!!! ...there’s a lot of posts to reply to.

    I better go get some coffee. (BRB)
    Just get a fifth of bourbon, it'll be more entertaining.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Just get a fifth of bourbon, it'll be more entertaining.
    If that is the case...

    I wiLl aLSo whERe mY owL Dog sWEater aNd EEt sUm maYnaZE.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Dude. No ones seeking to "compel compliance with patriotic rituals." If they don't want to take part in it, they're free to skip it and stay in the locker room.

    Those who DO want to take part will probably appreciate not having other people drawing attention to themselves and their polarizing political cause.

    I think it's a HUGE stretch to call the playing of the national anthem before a sporting event a piece of patriotic propaganda, since they had been doing it for decades and decades, and no one ever looked at it that way until a group of people with an agenda came along and (rather rudely) insisted it was a political stunt.

    No, dude. It's a moment to chill and reflect on the fact that "you know, all things considered, it's pretty cool that I can sit here and watch this basketball game with all these people, and despite all our differences we have some fundamental stuff in common and things are not so bad." Actually a positive thing that has little if anything to do with the government or the military, if you allow yourself to just ... be.

    So when someone cones along and wants to change the message to "Fuck you! Half the players hate your guts! OMG political OUTRAGE!!!" ... yeah, some people are not gonna appreciate that. Not because they're paranoid nationalist die-hard Trump supporters, but because they see a rude person interrupting a sporting event with poorly timed political commentary.
    Dude - FWIW I sing the anthem and am not off at the concession stand when I am attending a game, although the NFL certainly keeps the registers ringing while the anthem is played. So I suppose there are varying degrees of what level of respect is regarded to be appropriate if you are at the game.

    The players, coaches, owners and fans can each do what they want about this as far as I am concerned. - in their own ways they are all part of the game and have a role in how it operates - politicians making cheap political points are not. This was petering out as an issue last September until the President interjected himself into it

    And I am not saying the owners latest policy is seeking to compel a player to stand during the anthem - they can hang in the locker room

    I was referring to a politician doubling down on previous comments by saying someone who does not stand for the anthem perhaps should not remain in the country, with the implication it might not be up to the individual whether to stay if engaging in that conduct

    The president appeared to suggest deporting players who protest during the national anthem

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/t...n-the-country/

    If a player continues to kneel rather than hang in the locker room the owners can discipline him (although some pretty clearly are not going to do so).

    But any suggestion that any kneeling or other protest might merit someone being compelled to leave the country is nonsense and would be laughed out of court as patently unconstitutional if the government sought to compel such an outcome through deportation.

    And the bottom line is Adam Schefter accurately states where we are at now


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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Artie wants 17 millon a year.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Okay... where to begin.

    -I must iterate that the amount of focus that goes towards the protest itself (kneel vs. stand) far outweighs the amount of focus on the actual problem (bad cops).

    -I think that there are two discussions going on here.

    1) Kneeling anywhere, any time.
    2) Kneeling before a game (at work).

    1) I am 100% for people having the freedom to protest as they deem fit. 2) I get that the NFL is a work place, and just like when I worked at SeaWorld, there were rules that I had to follow in order to work there (no facial hair). That said, I also feel that if a person has the spotlight and is able to focus that spotlight on a problem, they have an obligation to do so. Lastly, I also feel that this issue had died away, but got resurrected by Goodell/Trump.

    -Good post, pczach. That said, I do not quite agree with the “shouting ‘Fire’ in a movie theater” analogy. Shouting “Fire” causes a stampede, and people get hurt. Kneeling doesn’t have any adverse effects.

    -As far as “deporting” players... here is an analogy. I love my wife, but I do not agree with 100% of what she says/does; at best, we are in 90% agreement. Yet, I’ve never told her to get out of the house over a disagreement.

    -Dwins, I admire your passion. And, here’s what I always tell people when we discuss the First Amendment: people have the right to say/do things, but other people have the right to feel anger towards those people for the things that they say/do. So, while I back the protestors’ rights to protest, I also completely back you in your disdain (for lack of a better word) for their actions. In a way... your reaction is what they are hoping for, because that visceral reaction brings a LOT of attention (positive and negative) to their cause. (Make sense?)

    I know now that I missed something... need some more coffee (and bourbon).

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    The biggest problem is Trump comments on the issue which further fan the flames to try and distract people from the fact that he and his party are spending money like drunken sailors. Seriously, I hope this issue dies by the end of the year as I couldn't care less who stands and who doesn't. I just want bitter partisanship out of the NFL

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post
    If someone wants to protest great fine dandy, do it on your own time and not my dime. Your there to "work" that's what you getting paid for. I could give a rats ass if you stand, kneel or play dead do it on your time.
    This is my stance, as well. Or, they could always move to another country.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    If that is the case...

    I wiLl aLSo whERe mY owL Dog sWEater aNd EEt sUm maYnaZE.

    Here's a cheese plate to help tide you over...








    I miss Buddha.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Steel View Post
    I miss Buddha.

    I text him & Jon daily. It goes something like this...

    BUDDHA: What are you guys doing this weekend?
    ME: Glamping
    BUDDHA: Nice. Bringing the satellite dish?
    ME: LOL no, but we are having root beer floats
    BUDDHA: you should pour a stout instead
    ME: I don’t think my kids could handle that LOL
    BUDDHA: I’m off to the Mt. Hope beer fest
    ME: enjoy
    JON: I’m going to shower with my dogs...

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Wow!!! ...there’s a lot of posts to reply to.

    I better go get some coffee. (BRB)
    Is it really worth replying to??

    This board is somewhat representative of the general population, so its not surprising to see some that again, either don't hear or don't want to discuss the real reason that players took a knee in the first place. Instead its about the flag, the military, patriotism. There are viewpoints that people have, which have been passed along for generations and those aren't likely to change on a message board.

    http://▶ 0:20 <a href="https://www.f...379806303/</a>

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Is it really worth replying to??

    This board is somewhat representative of the general population, so its not surprising to see some that again, either don't hear or don't want to discuss the real reason that players took a knee in the first place. Instead its about the flag, the military, patriotism. There are viewpoints that people have, which have been passed along for generations and those aren't likely to change on a message board.

    http://▶ 0:20 <a href="https://www.f...379806303/</a>
    perhaps because THAT is what the flag and anthem have ALWAYS been about ....

    until they came along and tried to change it " because they claimed that is different for them "

    well excuse me then Thanksgiving is NOW about everyone giving me their paychecks for 6 months ....

    if you do not do that then you are offending my cause
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by El-Gonzo Jackson View Post
    Is it really worth replying to??

    This board is somewhat representative of the general population, so its not surprising to see some that again, either don't hear or don't want to discuss the real reason that players took a knee in the first place. Instead its about the flag, the military, patriotism. There are viewpoints that people have, which have been passed along for generations and those aren't likely to change on a message board.

    http://▶ 0:20 <a href="https://www.f...379806303/</a>
    Why don't they take a knee when they score a touchdown or make a sack instead? Oh that's right, those moments are about celebrating themselves.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    So if both teams kneel it will offsetting penalties right? The NFL will look stupid when that happens. Honestly I'm a corporate guy so I fully agree with a workplace policy dictating that you can or cannot stand. I just think the NFL could have saved themselves a ton of trouble by just keeping both teams in the locker room while the anthem is being played. Like it was pre 2001


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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    I think there should be a mandatory draft, minimum one year for all healthy male & females (18 year olds). Military, peace corps, charity organizations, etc outside the US. No better way to serve someone else and put some real experience behind this chicken shit here in the US.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Or we could work on the fact that a white kid can execute school children, engage in a shootout with police and live while a black or brown dude can be shot or assualted by the police while driving, walking home, helping a mentally ill person in a public street, or working at a construction site (all things that have happened since the start of the anthem protests).

    But heaven forbid any gentle soul is made to feel mildly uncomfortable for 5 minutes 17 weeks out of the year.

    If people had the same attitudes as being expressed here we would have all celebrated the royal wedding as loyal Commonwealth subjects, women wouldn't vote, nor would non-whites, their wouldn't be unions, some of us would be barred from owning property, maybe put in debtor's prison, etc. All of those social changes and more were brought about by protest movement s that were WILDLY unpopular at their start.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    A brown kid shot up that high-school in Florida and he wasn't shot or beaten. That's a pretty broad brush stroke you're trying to sell there Mojouw


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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by 43Hitman View Post
    A brown kid shot up that high-school in Florida and he wasn't shot or beaten. That's a pretty broad brush stroke you're trying to sell there Mojouw
    Dunno. The stats speak for themselves. Spend some time looking into it and the picture emerges of two very different realities. And if some members of a group that feels marginalized wants to non-destructively start a conversation about it, who are we to say no?

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    I never said that they couldn't bring awareness to injustices being committed in this country, but we are talking about WORK PLACE policies, NO ONE is saying these guys can't protest on their free time. ESPN would do a segment on this everyday if players wanted that forum, and honestly they would probably reach a broader audience. This isn't about stomping on someone's rights, when you sign a work contract or an NFL contract you are bound to their rules and regulations. Why is that so hard for people to understand? Can you go to work just wearing a swimsuit and flip-flops? I highly doubt it.


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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    The majority of liberal protesters have no idea what they are even protesters or facts to back up their emotions , they just want attention and to feel better about themselves. Organizers are often Democratic contributors just trying to drum up support for their party. Kaepernick himself started this just because he wanted attention. He was silent while others were protesting trayvon Martin and Michael Brown because he was receiving enough attention as the starting qb on a recent super bowl and as a guy some billed as the next great 9ers qb who had gotten paid like it. He didn't start protesting until he was in danger of losing his starting job to Blaine gabbert and of becoming completely irrelevant.

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by 43Hitman View Post
    I never said that they couldn't bring awareness to injustices being committed in this country, but we are talking about WORK PLACE policies, NO ONE is saying these guys can't protest on their free time. ESPN would do a segment on this everyday if players wanted that forum, and honestly they would probably reach a broader audience. This isn't about stomping on someone's rights, when you sign a work contract or an NFL contract you are bound to their rules and regulations. Why is that so hard for people to understand? Can you go to work just wearing a swimsuit and flip-flops? I highly doubt it.
    I get that. I'm just trying to understand why people are advocating for deportation because someone made them fell icky for a hot minute.

    My personal belief is that the league is to blame by trying to thread a needle for several years now on this issue. Should've just said from the beginning that anyone who cashes an NFL paycheck had to stand when on the field. Anyone not on the field, do whatever. Which is basically where they landed after the horse had already left the barn and the barn was on fire.

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