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Thread: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    I said I was out of this.... but, that is just wrong. Most of us feel that your JOB is the wrong venue for your protest. It's really just that simple.
    Does your job force you salute the flag and sing the anthem every morning?
    Does your job prevent you from placing politically oriented messages on your vehicle?

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    That's some solid "what aboutism" right there.

    Notice that the protestors are not trying to bring attention to violent crime - something we can reasonably assume that everyone already knows is a terrible thing. They are attempting to shine a light on something many feel was and is not being talked about enough.

    There are a significant number of NFL players who sponsor, work with, or start charities/foundations that seek to help at risk youth before the get swept up in the violent forces in their communities that make them both sides of the statistics you have posted. Google can help find any number, such as the work Cam Heyward is engaged in.

    As to Hollywood celebrities, ehhhh? Screw 'em? For a side of the political spectrum that claims to hate Hollywood and everything it stands for, conservatives seem really keen on being invited to the "cool kids table" - this includes the "name dropper in chief". For me, I don't need the backing of the attention seeking or famous folks of any type to figure out where I stand on things.

    Turning to liberals in general not caring -- well that is basically the biggest BS argument ever. In most cases the foundational planks of liberal politics (money for education, after school programs, a variety of things related to at risk youth, etc) are the exact types of things that seek to address getting young people off the streets and out of violent situations before they can become either the shooter or the victim. Additionally, it turns out when you cut taxes, you have to get money from somewhere. Just ask the multiple Kansas communities that have reduced or eliminated police forces.

    If we are going to lob around who does or does not care more -- where are the conservatives? What about the NRA - why aren't they involved as "responsible gun owners" trying to draw attention to how irresponsible gun ownership hurts everyone?

    Finally, the underlying logic here is simply untenable.
    1. NFL players kneeling angers me as it has no place in that setting and is offensive to many. What a totally unacceptable form of protest. Disgusting.
    2. Why aren't NFL players visibly protesting about this issue? Frauds!
    3. No research conducted to track the activities, causes, and off-camera time spent by NFL players.

    So off-camera doesn't count because most are too lazy to make themselves aware of it and on-camera is offensive and inappropriate. Gee, it is almost like what is really being said is that those folks shouldn't protest.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Of course it’s all very complicated given that this is a business, and that the NFL needs to run it as such. For that reason, the Bill of Rights - which represents freedom from GOVERNMENT coercion - does not apply.

    But when it comes to the discussion of what the flag represents, nothing expresses it better than this:



    https://youtu.be/cmG4GUjesig

  4. #364

    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Does your job force you salute the flag and sing the anthem every morning?
    Does your job prevent you from placing politically oriented messages on your vehicle?
    I don't believe this applies as the players are not required to salute the flag, either. They are only required to quietly remain on the side of the field, not even with a hand over their heart. They aren't required to sing the anthem, either. NFL players are also allowed to place politically oriented message on their vehicles. What they are not allowed to do is make politically oriented statements while on the job. In the same way, you or I can't pick up the phone and say, "Hello, this is MYNAME at XYZ business, please vote for proposition 1234, how can I help you?"


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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I don't believe this applies as the players are not required to salute the flag, either. They are only required to quietly remain on the side of the field, not even with a hand over their heart. They aren't required to sing the anthem, either. NFL players are also allowed to place politically oriented message on their vehicles. What they are not allowed to do is make politically oriented statements while on the job. In the same way, you or I can't pick up the phone and say, "Hello, this is MYNAME at XYZ business, please vote for proposition 1234, how can I help you?"
    Fair enough. Again it just comes down to how you define participation. For me, if I can't opt out in a silent and individual manner, then my participation is being forced. Forced participation is a political statement in and of itself. That is my problem with the whole thing.

    The NFL is enforcing a specific and directed political statement on its employees and forbidding any counter speech. For me, once an employer engages in political speech the lose all leg to stand on when their employees get political.

    I actually do not know how any of the laws and whatnot work in these situations but it smells pretty iffy to me.

    For instance, what if at the start of every shift your employer made you state your support for "Insert Cause You Don't Agree with Here". Would that be allowed?

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Also several of the numbered items here make it sound like kneeling during the anthem is protected and forcing people to do otherwise would be a no-no -- but again I'm not a lawyer.

    http://www.acc.com/legalresources/pu...eWorkplace.cfm

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Forced participation
    so let me get this straight , forced participation is not ok ....

    fine shut down all public and private schools because I mean kids are FORCED into attendance and if they do not go the parents are then fined .... hmmm

    lets quit gun registration because nobody should be forced into doing anything they do not want to do .....

    lets end voter registration I mean why should I have to register to vote .....

    lets forget about drivers tests I mean why should I be forced to take a test to see if I can do something I know that I can do already .....


    its as cut and dry as stated 100 times in 100 different ways , at work you do as the employer says or you find another line of work ...

    the NFL is not the only game in town but they have rules , guess what thats life , life has rules !

    every employer has rules / standards / guidelines that is you do not abide by you find yourself on the outside looking in ...

    when at work do work things and all that accompany said job...

    when on your own time do your own thing ....

    its not all that hard to understand...

    NFL Stadiums are in fact a work place

    Players show up to the stadium to go to work ..

    Last I checked Protesting is not part of the job , but following the rules of the employer ( and to some degree sponsors ) and then doing your job well keeps you your job ...

    - - - Updated - - -

    there I go getting back into this shit again ....
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    so let me get this straight , forced participation is not ok ....

    fine shut down all public and private schools because I mean kids are FORCED into attendance and if they do not go the parents are then fined .... hmmm

    lets quit gun registration because nobody should be forced into doing anything they do not want to do .....

    lets end voter registration I mean why should I have to register to vote .....

    lets forget about drivers tests I mean why should I be forced to take a test to see if I can do something I know that I can do already .....


    its as cut and dry as stated 100 times in 100 different ways , at work you do as the employer says or you find another line of work ...

    the NFL is not the only game in town but they have rules , guess what thats life , life has rules !

    every employer has rules / standards / guidelines that is you do not abide by you find yourself on the outside looking in ...

    when at work do work things and all that accompany said job...

    when on your own time do your own thing ....

    its not all that hard to understand...

    NFL Stadiums are in fact a work place

    Players show up to the stadium to go to work ..

    Last I checked Protesting is not part of the job , but following the rules of the employer ( and to some degree sponsors ) and then doing your job well keeps you your job ...

    - - - Updated - - -

    there I go getting back into this shit again ....
    If you cant see the numerous false equivalnecies that you are drawing, then there is not much I can say in response.

    In this case the NFL has no official policy on the anthem or participation. In response to market forces and PR issues, the owners and league office would prefer to have an official policy of standing and participating. However, as their repeated ham fisted attempts have demonstrated, they cant do that for a variety of reasons.

    For instance, there was a discussion about school and it was decided that everyone under 18 was legally compelled to attend.

    There have been discussion about politics in the workplace and there are laws that says no one can be compelled to participate.

    So what’s the disconnect?

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    If you cant see the numerous false equivalnecies that you are drawing, then there is not much I can say in response.

    In this case the NFL has no official policy on the anthem or participation. In response to market forces and PR issues, the owners and league office would prefer to have an official policy of standing and participating. However, as their repeated ham fisted attempts have demonstrated, they cant do that for a variety of reasons.

    For instance, there was a discussion about school and it was decided that everyone under 18 was legally compelled to attend.

    There have been discussion about politics in the workplace and there are laws that says no one can be compelled to participate.

    So what’s the disconnect?

    Politics is a one party or another discussion ....

    its not a " National" thing ... the anthem is not or should not be political neither should the flag its a national thing ....

    if you are part of the nation it should not bother you in the slightest ....

    now sure where that disconnect is ...

    what does the flag stand for again ?

    what does the anthem represent ?

    if you are American you should embrace the meaning not degrade it ...


    *** oh by the way your wrong about school age , perhaps in some states but not all , In Pa per example a child can quit school WITHOUT parental consent or signature at age 17 but can be fined if the kid does not sign themselves out of school and chooses to just not attend ....
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    Politics is a one party or another discussion ....

    its not a " National" thing ... the anthem is not or should not be political neither should the flag its a national thing ....

    if you are part of the nation it should not bother you in the slightest ....

    now sure where that disconnect is ...

    what does the flag stand for again ?

    what does the anthem represent ?

    if you are American you should embrace the meaning not degrade it ...


    *** oh by the way your wrong about school age , perhaps in some states but not all , In Pa per example a child can quit school WITHOUT parental consent or signature at age 17 but can be fined if the kid does not sign themselves out of school and chooses to just not attend ....

    Nations, particularly one as diverse and large as ours, are not natural things. They are entirely created by people - typically around a number of unifying things that we call "culture". One of the ways that culture is expressed is through symbols and rituals.The flag is a symbol. They anthem is a ritual that involves that symbol. Each member of a nation is able to invest that symbol and ritual with whatever meaning they want to. In fact, it is almost universal that for most people symbols hold multiple simultaneous meanings, those meanings change over time, and rarely (if ever) do symbols mean the same thing to everyone at the same time.

    That is how symbols and rituals work -- I do this for a living so I don't know how much more directly to put it to you. I am laying it out the same way I would to my students. They get it. What is the stumbling block here?

    The singing of the national anthem, in any setting, while saluting the flag is an overtly political action. No one can compel you to engage in that action - that is the whole point of shared experiment in democracy.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Nations, particularly one as diverse and large as ours, are not natural things. They are entirely created by people - typically around a number of unifying things that we call "culture". One of the ways that culture is expressed is through symbols and rituals.The flag is a symbol. They anthem is a ritual that involves that symbol. Each member of a nation is able to invest that symbol and ritual with whatever meaning they want to. In fact, it is almost universal that for most people symbols hold multiple simultaneous meanings, those meanings change over time, and rarely (if ever) do symbols mean the same thing to everyone at the same time.

    That is how symbols and rituals work -- I do this for a living so I don't know how much more directly to put it to you. I am laying it out the same way I would to my students. They get it. What is the stumbling block here?

    The singing of the national anthem, in any setting, while saluting the flag is an overtly political action. No one can compel you to engage in that action - that is the whole point of shared experiment in democracy.
    horse shit ...

    the flag have a long standing history of meaning as does the anthem

    anyone that comes here SHOULD get behind those meanings and become Part of the Nation , otherwise go somewhere else you are FREE to leave nobody is being held hostage ...

    there is NOTHING worse than the new guy coming in and trying to dictate the rules to a long standing tradition ...

    Nobody walks into my house and tells me how to cook my diner or mow my lawn or anything else , its MY house ...

    nobody should enter this country and tell us this or that standard is not acceptable to them ...

    but this is getting off course ...

    as for you doing it for a living , I don't know what to tell you seems History is changing with every addition of a new book and I am not talking about additions I am talking about changing old history by a word or two here or there and leaving out important details as well ... I am talking about educators no longer teaching cursive writing as well ....

    and for the 500th time nobody has ever asked any player to salute the flag while the anthem is being played ..... just stand in respect with helmet in hand
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    horse shit ...

    the flag have a long standing history of meaning as does the anthem

    anyone that comes here SHOULD get behind those meanings and become Part of the Nation , otherwise go somewhere else you are FREE to leave nobody is being held hostage ...

    there is NOTHING worse than the new guy coming in and trying to dictate the rules to a long standing tradition ...

    Nobody walks into my house and tells me how to cook my diner or mow my lawn or anything else , its MY house ...

    nobody should enter this country and tell us this or that standard is not acceptable to them ...

    but this is getting off course ...

    as for you doing it for a living , I don't know what to tell you seems History is changing with every addition of a new book and I am not talking about additions I am talking about changing old history by a word or two here or there and leaving out important details as well ... I am talking about educators no longer teaching cursive writing as well ....

    and for the 500th time nobody has ever asked any player to salute the flag while the anthem is being played ..... just stand in respect with helmet in hand
    You clearly do not want to discuss this. You simply want to stomp your feet and demand that everyone agree with you.

    History changing over time in both big and subtle ways is called "learning". Just because something happened 100 or 1,000 years ago doesn't mean that we are not still learning new things about it that can often dramatically change our perspective and understanding of past events.

    Want to know why no one teaches cursive writing anymore? I suspect you do not, but here it is anyways. Cursive writing was invented as a time saving method of writing by hand, as the pen does not leave the paper during making each letter or the transition between letters. Since no one consistently and for long periods of time writes by hand anymore, there is no longer a need for individuals to know cursive in order to function in the workplace. Which is why many schools have replaced cursive writing instruction with knowledge and skills that are more critical to succeeding in the modern world.

    Considering the anthem wasn't recognized as the anthem until 1931, that isn't very long standing. Should we go back to singing "America the Beautiful" or "My Country Tis of Thee"? Those had a longer run as the national song. I mean we wouldn't want to change any traditions now.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    You clearly do not want to discuss this. You simply want to stomp your feet and demand that everyone agree with you.

    History changing over time in both big and subtle ways is called "learning". Just because something happened 100 or 1,000 years ago doesn't mean that we are not still learning new things about it that can often dramatically change our perspective and understanding of past events.

    Want to know why no one teaches cursive writing anymore? I suspect you do not, but here it is anyways. Cursive writing was invented as a time saving method of writing by hand, as the pen does not leave the paper during making each letter or the transition between letters. Since no one consistently and for long periods of time writes by hand anymore, there is no longer a need for individuals to know cursive in order to function in the workplace. Which is why many schools have replaced cursive writing instruction with knowledge and skills that are more critical to succeeding in the modern world.

    you do not want to discuss it either , you want everyone to agree with your take ... and will write countless paragraphs saying why you are correct ....

    the problem is you are not ...

    nobody is forcing anyone to stay here , we are all free to leave ...

    and again for the 501 time nobody is being asked or forced to salute the flag during the anthem .... just stand with helmet in hand as a show of respect for the Country that allows you to play a childs game for millions of dollars a year ...where else can you do that but here ( or maybe Canada not sure what CFL players make but know it is drastically less than the NFL )
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you do not want to discuss it either , you want everyone to agree with your take ... and will write countless paragraphs saying why you are correct ....

    the problem is you are not ...

    nobody is forcing anyone to stay here , we are all free to leave ...

    and again for the 501 time nobody is being asked or forced to salute the flag during the anthem .... just stand with helmet in hand as a show of respect for the Country that allows you to play a childs game for millions of dollars a year ...where else can you do that but here ( or maybe Canada not sure what CFL players make but know it is drastically less than the NFL )
    I'm not asking anyone to agree with me. I have made my biases and opinions extremely clear.

    All I am asking is that everyone recognize that there are multiple sides to this debate and there is no binary "right" or "wrong". Reducing the issue to that is moving beyond opinion and engaging in things that are not true.

    You have an opinion. I have another one. Someone else will have a third. And so on and so forth. While there are indeed some facts that all of us should agree on within this larger debate - the meaning and power of the flag and anthem are not one of them. It is true that the flag has deep and emotionally powerful meaning for many many people in this country and will continue to do so. For others it is not a powerful or meaningful symbol.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I'm not asking anyone to agree with me. I have made my biases and opinions extremely clear.

    All I am asking is that everyone recognize that there are multiple sides to this debate and there is no binary "right" or "wrong". Reducing the issue to that is moving beyond opinion and engaging in things that are not true.

    You have an opinion. I have another one. Someone else will have a third. And so on and so forth. While there are indeed some facts that all of us should agree on within this larger debate - the meaning and power of the flag and anthem are not one of them. It is true that the flag has deep and emotionally powerful meaning for many many people in this country and will continue to do so. For others it is not a powerful or meaningful symbol.

    and to those people ( in bold ) I might suggest they are living in the wrong country and remind them they are free to leave .
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    and to those people ( in bold ) I might suggest they are living in the wrong country and remind them they are free to leave .
    And that is a totally valid opinion to hold. But it is not the only opinion - which is my limited point.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    its as cut and dry as stated 100 times in 100 different ways , at work you do as the employer says or you find another line of work ...
    QUESTION:
    If your employer told you that you could no longer carry your firearm at work, would you comply or would you quit?

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    QUESTION:
    If your employer told you that you could no longer carry your firearm at work, would you comply or would you quit?

    well since I am self employed .... haha

    but I would seek work elsewhere if I was not self employed , bottom line personal safety is paramount to anything else and in the times we live one can not be to careful .
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    well since I am self employed .... haha
    I knew that you’d find a “loophole”.

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I knew that you’d find a “loophole”.
    but its true............
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    but its true............
    Oh, I know. My “line of reasoning” would have been more interesting if you had had to make a difficult choice. Ergo, my use of the word “loophole” (which shot a hole in my counter point LOL).

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Nations, particularly one as diverse and large as ours, are not natural things. They are entirely created by people - typically around a number of unifying things that we call "culture". One of the ways that culture is expressed is through symbols and rituals.The flag is a symbol. They anthem is a ritual that involves that symbol. Each member of a nation is able to invest that symbol and ritual with whatever meaning they want to. In fact, it is almost universal that for most people symbols hold multiple simultaneous meanings, those meanings change over time, and rarely (if ever) do symbols mean the same thing to everyone at the same time.

    That is how symbols and rituals work -- I do this for a living so I don't know how much more directly to put it to you. I am laying it out the same way I would to my students. They get it. What is the stumbling block here?

    The singing of the national anthem, in any setting, while saluting the flag is an overtly political action. No one can compel you to engage in that action - that is the whole point of shared experiment in democracy.
    I agree with this statement. However, standing quietly with your head bowed or and hands clasped instead of over your heart is not a political statement. It's a neutral statement. But, I wanted to touch on a different side of this discussion. You noted "No one can compel you to engage in that action." On this, I believe, you are wrong (unfortunately). What do I mean?

    A few years ago, I went to work for Bell South. When I did, one of the first things that happened to me was my enrollment in a union and union dues taken out of my check. Now, I am anti-union in the way unions operate today, and did not want to be part of a union. However, my freedom of association was voided because I chose to work at a closed-union shop. In this shop, I paid dues, and those dues were used to press issues I disagreed with. Moreover, they were also used in a way that associated me with political parties, making my very presence a political action. It also associated me with political groups that I have violates my spiritual beliefs (pro-abortion, for instance). Therefore, my first amendment rights were violated several times, yet none of it mattered because the closed union shop trumped my rights when I chose to work there.

    In states that are closed-shop states, the players must join the union. As such, in the same way as I had to endure, so they also have to endure political associations that they, personally, disagree with. They do not have to actively participate in them (put their hand over their chest, sing along, and so on), but if the NFL can force the NFLPA to accept an agreement whereby the players must stand, then I see absolutely no recourse for players, nor should they have any recourse as their union has made the agreement. In that case, the union absolutely can compel them not to engage in an action and thus, make them associate in the same way the union compelled me to engage in associating with political elements against my first amendment rights.

    EDIT: Some other day, we'll get into a long discussion over sign, symbol, Jacque Derrida, and associations, and we'll bore everyone here except perhaps teegre, who seems to be geeky enough enjoy the discussion.


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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I agree with this statement. However, standing quietly with your head bowed or and hands clasped instead of over your heart is not a political statement. It's a neutral statement. But, I wanted to touch on a different side of this discussion. You noted "No one can compel you to engage in that action." On this, I believe, you are wrong (unfortunately). What do I mean?

    A few years ago, I went to work for Bell South. When I did, one of the first things that happened to me was my enrollment in a union and union dues taken out of my check. Now, I am anti-union in the way unions operate today, and did not want to be part of a union. However, my freedom of association was voided because I chose to work at a closed-union shop. In this shop, I paid dues, and those dues were used to press issues I disagreed with. Moreover, they were also used in a way that associated me with political parties, making my very presence a political action. It also associated me with political groups that I have violates my spiritual beliefs (pro-abortion, for instance). Therefore, my first amendment rights were violated several times, yet none of it mattered because the closed union shop trumped my rights when I chose to work there.

    In states that are closed-shop states, the players must join the union. As such, in the same way as I had to endure, so they also have to endure political associations that they, personally, disagree with. They do not have to actively participate in them (put their hand over their chest, sing along, and so on), but if the NFL can force the NFLPA to accept an agreement whereby the players must stand, then I see absolutely no recourse for players, nor should they have any recourse as their union has made the agreement. In that case, the union absolutely can compel them not to engage in an action and thus, make them associate in the same way the union compelled me to engage in associating with political elements against my first amendment rights.

    EDIT: Some other day, we'll get into a long discussion over sign, symbol, Jacque Derrida, and associations, and we'll bore everyone here except perhaps teegre, who seems to be geeky enough enjoy the discussion.
    I actually agree with all this. Closed shops and union dues being mobilized into political causes is super problematic. While in the abstract, I support unions, I also acknowledge they are incredibly problematic in todays climate and how work actually works.

    I have no real response other than Ive been in the same boat and it sucks. But at the same time, the union got me some bad ass healthcare. So for me, a push.

    To be clear, when the union comes out and states a policy on the matter, I will agree that all players have to abide by it whether or not they agree at a personal level. Until then, I guess it still a free for all?

  24. #384
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    EDIT: Some other day, we'll get into a long discussion over sign, symbol, Jacque Derrida, and associations, and we'll bore everyone here except perhaps teegre, who seems to be geeky enough enjoy the discussion.
    Geek??? I take offense... I am a nerd.

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  26. #386
    Senior Member Array title="hawaiiansteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> hawaiiansteeler's Avatar

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy


  27. #387
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    True, sorry, I got the sign of my word symbol incorrect—unless of course your a referentialist, then I got you wrong.
    I am a nerd in both its use, as well as the thing that is being denoted.

  28. #388
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    EDIT: Some other day, we'll get into a long discussion over sign, symbol, Jacque Derrida, and associations, and we'll bore everyone here except perhaps teegre, who seems to be geeky enough enjoy the discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Geek??? I take offense... I am a nerd.
    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I am a nerd in both its use, as well as the thing that is being denoted.
    I exist in a liminal state between nerd and geek...

    Couldn't resist...

  29. #389
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I exist in a liminal state between nerd and geek...

    Couldn't resist...
    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/4bb8fec...d34ce101b/text

  30. #390
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Artie Burns is not happy with new NFL National Anthem policy

    That’s great!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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