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Thread: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...-2018-nfl-news

    So the point of the article is interesting, even if the execution is terrible.

    Some stray thoughts:

    • This is really bad writing "Berry crushed his punt—it traveled 60 yards through the dreary aerospace" What is this a Gothic novel? C'mon man.
    • The points about Davis are all true. And that is terrifying. Someone better figure out if this kid is the real deal and it is all the role switches that have caused him to regress or if this is just a fizzled 2nd Round pick. For all the crap that Dupree gets, I think Davis has provided even less value and more direct responsibilities for lost games. Yet he mostly skates through shielded from blame by fans' anger towards Dupree and Mitchell.
    • The author seems to think that Dupree is playing for $8-9 million dollars this year (he is not) and is in line for an extension next year (he is not). Unless he meant that the Steelers will try to negotiate out of the option year? Not sure. It seemed oddly worded and a weird direction to take things in.
    • Author seems to think far far higher of Dupree's run stopping and coverage than most fans do. Honest question: Has anyone seen a breakdown of all of Dupree's alleged failures in run support or is this more of an alleged crime than a proven one?
    • Interesting take on Dobbs. I remember last preseason being rough, but not the total failure painted in the article. Am I just remember what I wanted to?

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    [*]The points about Davis are all true. And that is terrifying. Someone better figure out if this kid is the real deal and it is all the role switches that have caused him to regress or if this is just a fizzled 2nd Round pick. For all the crap that Dupree gets, I think Davis has provided even less value and more direct responsibilities for lost games. Yet he mostly skates through shielded from blame by fans' anger towards Dupree and Mitchell.
    it wouldn't surprise me at all if Morgan Burnett starts at FS and Terrell Edmunds ends up winning the starting SS position at some point during the season.

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    it wouldn't surprise me at all if Morgan Burnett starts at FS and Terrell Edmunds ends up winning the starting SS position at some point during the season.
    I agree. Hate to say it, because the pick sounded so good on paper, but it is likely a make or break year for Davis.

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    I rewatched his (Dupree) play in the last Jax game, he failed to set the edge a number of times, where VW was waiting for the RB to turn upfield and make the tackle. Most of the time he took himself out of the play. His criticism is warranted from I could tell. Some here posted a gif showing what he did (although they were posting it for a different reason if I recall) numerous times.

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    I don't think Dupree is a bad player. Not good or great, but not bad either. He's serviceable at the position. Problem is when you use a first round pick on someone, you want them to be at least good.

    Also considering the amount of talent he has, he's underachieving.

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    I rewatched his (Dupree) play in the last Jax game, he failed to set the edge a number of times, where VW was waiting for the RB to turn upfield and make the tackle. Most of the time he took himself out of the play. His criticism is warranted from I could tell. Some here posted a gif showing what he did (although they were posting it for a different reason if I recall) numerous times.
    I wish someone would take the time and break that game down in terms of run stops and run support.

    I seem to remember a whole lot of VW and Spence not getting to the edge in time to fill the hole as well as DBs just whiffing in run fills rather than guys getting the edge. Two of the longer runs where when Fournette cut inside the edge defender and outside of the ILB. But I have not watched the game in months and wouldn't always know what I should be looking for either.

    The raw data I have seen, again not film but just stats, show that it was the DBs and Watt's side of the field that got gashed in the run game more so than Dupree's side and/or edge. But again, stats only tell so much of the story.

    Also, this comes with my standard disclaimer that I don't think Dupree is super great, but he is better than what his most negative detractors make him out to be and less than what his potential and draft slot says he could be.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/steelers-film-room-breakdown-analysis/2017/12/15/16775332/steelers-film-room-bud-duprees-struggles-against-the-run-vs-ravens-patriots-afc-nfl-breakdown

    Actually this just kinda says it all.

    Dupree does nothing.
    Moats gets planted.
    Davis takes an interesting angle and misses the tackle.

    Sigh. Burnett, Edmunds, Allen, and communication better be pretty good.

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    Your link is exactly what he was doing against Jax, he takes himself out of the play by going to wide, doesn’t set the edge so the runner will turn up the field in to the waiting ILB, and on top of that, his blocker is free to block someone else. Doesn’t matter if it is a TE or OT. If he learns how to set the edge, his play would improve to good, he would only be lacking pass rushing moves at that point.

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    Your link is exactly what he was doing against Jax, he takes himself out of the play by going to wide, doesn’t set the edge so the runner will turn up the field in to the waiting ILB, and on top of that, his blocker is free to block someone else. Doesn’t matter if it is a TE or OT. If he learns how to set the edge, his play would improve to good, he would only be lacking pass rushing moves at that point.
    OK. So basically there are three players on defense (Davis, Burns, and Dupree) that are simply too stupid (at least on a football field) to let their athletic abilities come through.

    Wonder if "communication" is the new cover story for "not dumb players"? Just like "raw and undeveloped" are often cover words for "dumb as a bag of hammers".

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    OK. So basically there are three players on defense (Davis, Burns, and Dupree) that are simply too stupid (at least on a football field) to let their athletic abilities come through.

    Wonder if "communication" is the new cover story for "not dumb players"? Just like "raw and undeveloped" are often cover words for "dumb as a bag of hammers".


    Keith Butler earlier today on defense and communication:




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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...-2018-nfl-news

    So the point of the article is interesting, even if the execution is terrible.

    Some stray thoughts:

    • This is really bad writing "Berry crushed his punt—it traveled 60 yards through the dreary aerospace" What is this a Gothic novel? C'mon man.
    • The points about Davis are all true. And that is terrifying. Someone better figure out if this kid is the real deal and it is all the role switches that have caused him to regress or if this is just a fizzled 2nd Round pick. For all the crap that Dupree gets, I think Davis has provided even less value and more direct responsibilities for lost games. Yet he mostly skates through shielded from blame by fans' anger towards Dupree and Mitchell.
    • The author seems to think that Dupree is playing for $8-9 million dollars this year (he is not) and is in line for an extension next year (he is not). Unless he meant that the Steelers will try to negotiate out of the option year? Not sure. It seemed oddly worded and a weird direction to take things in.
    • Author seems to think far far higher of Dupree's run stopping and coverage than most fans do. Honest question: Has anyone seen a breakdown of all of Dupree's alleged failures in run support or is this more of an alleged crime than a proven one?
    • Interesting take on Dobbs. I remember last preseason being rough, but not the total failure painted in the article. Am I just remember what I wanted to?
    I skipped through a ton of it after reading your synopsis as to not put myself through all that pain for nothing ...

    Davis.... I think some of the issue with his game was Mitchell , I do not believe Davis trusted him and tried to compensate and hurt himself in the process ( no I can not prove it , its gut feeling from watching his play ) I will not crucify him for not being able to cover Gronk because quite frankly nobody truly can he is a size /weight/speed/strength nightmare for anyone to cover ... sure you may be able to handle his size or his peed or his strength but no 1 man playing in the NFL can not on every down anyways ....

    Dupree the man LOOKS the part his athleticism makes you believe he will produce ... he just hasn't .... ( reasons to distrust sparq scores ) Athletes are not always great football players ...
    But I will be fair and play along a bit .... its damned hard to judge a player when he is always got a nagging injury of some sort holding him back ( a lot of hybrid OLB types seem to fall victim to just that ) it is also very hard to judge him as a pass rusher when he drops into coverage at a 40% rate , I mean how are you going to tabulate many sacks if nearly half the time you are chasing someone 10-20 yards in the opposite direction of the QB .....this dropping into coverage of the OLBers in this version of the 3-4 I do not like , but I am not there every day watching these guys either ... I must and have wonder is it a product of how Butler envision the 3-4 ? is it a product of poor pass rushing OLBers ? or is it a product of having Cam Heyward and Tuitt on the D Line and they are not the normal 3-4 type ends they are pass rushing 3-4 ends and not the stay at home version we where accustomed to with guys like Keisel and Smith ... a whole lot to ponder there I know .... now you know where my head has been with this for a couple years

    Dobbs classic case of glass half empty /glass half full viewpoint from the author IMO , he is on the pessimistic side of Dobbs whereas I was closer to the optimistic side of things .... he had some abysmal moments for sure , but he also showed flashes of things you would like to see from a rookie ( a raw rookie as we knew going in ) he has a strong arm , he isn't a finesse passer but we knew this and he showed this .. what was he expecting Peyton Manning ? now I am not saying Dobbs is the second coming of a past great one , but I do think he has some tools you look for and I am not ready to give up on his development at this time , lets wait n see he could surprise us this camp
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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    Davis: I'm not going to give up on him yet especially with what appears to be a better DB coach, but he needs to greatly improve, he flashed potential rookie year, but was just bad in year 2. Hopefully Morgan Burnett (or maybe Terrell Edmunds depending on how they use him and how fast he develops) can make him better as playing along side Burnt Mitchell likely hurt him last year


    Dupree: An example on how there is a difference between being an athlete who was given a football jersey and position and being a football player. As a 1st round pick at OLB, he has clearly underperformed. Let's hope the Steelers don't talk themselves into giving him another shot if (a likely if) he underperforms yet again


    Dobbs: Raw and has flaws, but he definitely performed better than most if not all of the preseason games I saw Landry in. He at least showed potential, and it should be noted that the Steelers won as many preseason games Dobbs finished last year as the Steelers won preseason games Landry finished in the last 5 years. I would not bank on him being a franchise QB, (and with the selection of Rudolph, they clearly aren't), but he does have potential to at least be a capable backup

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I agree. Hate to say it, because the pick sounded so good on paper, but it is likely a make or break year for Davis.
    He definitely needs to step up but I was never a fan of the pick to begin with at least as far as other choices went. Would have taken Von Bell over Davis but the Steelers obviously felt differently.

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    Davis was injured all offseason and for the 1st half while being miscast as a slot corner due to injuries (rookie season). Once that all stopped, he was actually really good the rest of the season up until Brady smoked everybody.

    Davis did have another shoulder injury that basically killed off his whole offseason going into year 2.

    I honestly feel like Davis will flesh out into a decent safety.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by hawaiiansteeler View Post
    it wouldn't surprise me at all if Morgan Burnett starts at FS and Terrell Edmunds ends up winning the starting SS position at some point during the season.
    which can work out if Edmunds is up to the task, but Burnett wont be able to capitalize on his strengths. Too many fits as box safety fits on this team, not enough guys who we can be confident in to play single high. Burnett can do it pretty well, but anyone who has seen him beat up on tight ends/RB's in coverage as well as come screaming into his run fills knows this team has an awkward collection of safeties in stow. Butler is going to have to be creative
    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    We are not Buffalo, We are not Miami. We are the Steelers, we dont blow out teams, we cock tease for ratings and keep games close.
    Final Mock Draft: 1st-OLB TJ Watt, 2nd-S Josh Jones, 3rd-QB Brad Kaaya 3rd- CB Rasul Douglas 4th-RB Marlon Mack, 5th- CB Damontae Kazee 6th- OLB Javancy Jones, 7th WR Jehu Chesson, UDFA: ILB Ben Boulware, SS Tedric Thompson, TE Scott Orndoff, DT Patrick Gamble

    Desired Mock Draft: 1st-OLB TJ Watt, 2nd-S Jabrill Peppers, 3rd-TE Jake Butt, 3rd-RB Marlon Mack, 4th-CB Jourdan Lewis, 5th-CB Rasul Douglas, 6th-OLB Javancy Jones 7th-WR Jehu Chesson, UDFA: SS Tedric Thompson, ILB Ben Boulware, DE Ifeadi Odenigbo, QB Chad Kelly

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    I think Davis will get it together, it will be interesting to see how the new DB coach will improve things. I hope Bud has a good year, but I'm 50/50 on him, I'd still side him inside before I'd dump him.. Dobbs is going to have a short NFL career, his mind won't let him rest being the #3 Qb when there are drones to design.
    "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself--and you are
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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    The Killer D's

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86 View Post
    Davis was injured all offseason and for the 1st half while being miscast as a slot corner due to injuries (rookie season). Once that all stopped, he was actually really good the rest of the season up until Brady smoked everybody.

    Davis did have another shoulder injury that basically killed off his whole offseason going into year 2.

    I honestly feel like Davis will flesh out into a decent safety.

    - - - Updated - - -



    which can work out if Edmunds is up to the task, but Burnett wont be able to capitalize on his strengths. Too many fits as box safety fits on this team, not enough guys who we can be confident in to play single high. Burnett can do it pretty well, but anyone who has seen him beat up on tight ends/RB's in coverage as well as come screaming into his run fills knows this team has an awkward collection of safeties in stow. Butler is going to have to be creative
    The second portion of your post echoes my concerns. Right now, there seems to be too many guys who do the same thing well. That being said, guys can adapt. Ryan Clark did. Scheme can do some shifting as well. Be interesting to see this camp and preseason

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    Re: Interesting take on Davis, Dupree, and Dobbs

    I think Davis was the most disappointing defensive player on the team last year. After a solid rookie year, he repeatedly blew coverage, missed tackles, and seemed out of position often.
    Dupree has underwhelmed so far. The Steelers rode a long line of studs at the OLB position for a long time. I chalked it up to scheme and the 3-4 setting it up for that position to make the play. Jarvis Jones and now Dupree have disappointed.
    Dobbs is just a guy. Doesn't have the arm to ever be a starter. I loved the Rudolph pick, even if Ben doesn't. I actually think this might push Ben to play a little better this year.

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