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Thread: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    You have no appreciation for how huge the Muslim faith is. We're at war with a relatively tiny sect of Saudi-flavored Muslims. This might be a bad analogy, but not trusting Muslims would be like not trusting Christians because of IRA terrorists.
    Yeah, well I guess I don't.

    When I start seeing more than a "nod and wink" from the so-called "moderate Muslims," then maybe I'll change my mind. And I'm not talking about a couple here and there, I'm talking about a widespread denouncing of the extremists, both here and abroad. Until then, I don't trust them. Simple as that. If that makes me a bigot, then so be it.








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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post

    I still can't believe that you guys are blowing off that she admits to dabbling in witchcraft and satanism. You can argue that it happened when she was younger, but was anyone you hung out with dabbling in witchcraft and satanism in high school?
    So what concerns YOU more Godfather, a conservative that "dabbled" (if that) in witchcraft in high school, or her opponent who has self admittedly dabbled in socialism?
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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    I bet she's no fan of Ernest Borgnine:


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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    If a bank, apartment complex, employer, etc... does a credit check OR background check... THEY WILL HOLD IT AGAINST YOU... weather or not your that same person at the current time is of no concern to them... I'm just sayin...
    Should we let our politicians (the very same people that made those laws for institutions to evaluate a person according to their back-ground) to have a set of different standards ??

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire View Post
    If a bank, apartment complex, employer, etc... does a credit check OR background check... THEY WILL HOLD IT AGAINST YOU... weather or not your that same person at the current time is of no concern to them... I'm just sayin...
    Should we let our politicians (the very same people that made those laws for institutions to evaluate a person according to their back-ground) to have a set of different standards ??
    So do you know any witch dabblers that have been denied a job or rental?
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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire View Post
    If a bank, apartment complex, employer, etc... does a credit check OR background check... THEY WILL HOLD IT AGAINST YOU... weather or not your that same person at the current time is of no concern to them... I'm just sayin...
    Should we let our politicians (the very same people that made those laws for institutions to evaluate a person according to their back-ground) to have a set of different standards ??
    Of course not, but why is the her dabbling a bigger deal than her opponents affection for socialism?

    Is the fact that her opponent is a self admitted socialist empathizer not a bigger concern to you?

    I agree with your point but you are focusing on a flea when there is an elephant in the room friend.

    What concerns YOU more Steelempire?
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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Most people don't know WTF "socialist" even means besides the fact that it's a word in USSR. There's a lot of socialism in our government that you LOVE, but you don't know it. Every modern nation has socialist elements and HAS to to function at the size a modern nation is.

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    There's a lot of socialism in our government that you LOVE, but you don't know it.
    So do you feel the socialism is working well in our country Godfather?

    You know, the concept of taking by force what belongs to one group and giving it to those to whom it does not belong so that the elitist politicians can better spend OUR money in order to socially engineer a utopian society...

    If an individual does this it is a crime.

    ...and since we are debating government imposed solutions over free markets, I would love to hear your take on the trillion dollar stimulus bill being passed to create short term jobs at a million dollars per job versus a tax break for a trillion directly to the job creators.
    Last edited by GBMelBlount; 09-23-2010 at 06:41 AM. Reason: typo
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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    Of course not, but why is the her dabbling a bigger deal than her opponents affection for socialism?

    Is the fact that her opponent is a self admitted socialist empathizer not a bigger concern to you?

    I agree with your point but you are focusing on a flea when there is an elephant in the room friend.

    What concerns YOU more Steelempire?
    Its all about who the person is today , not what they were in the past. Let the person explain "what happened" first if you must go back into their past. If we took a person's record at its absolute value then, for Christians, Jesus was a felon that received the death penalty... if we did not know the story that led up to that event, he'd be just another thug. There are "many" such stories like that that even relates to people we know. Its not about what a person did in the past, but what they are now. From Obama's Rev. Wright drama and his Muslim father, to O'Donnell and her witchcraft... they both should have a say in what "really" happened and who they are now.
    In addition. People get "born again" all the time. I would much have a former criminal (and again, most of Jesus's disciples were former criminals) that's born again than a worldly, money grubbing person doing something that would affect me in anyway.
    How can we know who a person is now ? Good question. Maybe some form of a psychological examination ? An investigation into a persons past that only goes back 3-4 yrs ? Certainly theres something better than the current mid-evil style methods we are currently using...

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    Most people don't know WTF "socialist" even means besides the fact that it's a word in USSR. There's a lot of socialism in our government that you LOVE, but you don't know it. Every modern nation has socialist elements and HAS to to function at the size a modern nation is.
    Damn the fire department! It put all those private fire brigades out of business for good!

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Damn the fire department! It put all those private fire brigades out of business for good!
    Don't think anyone has ever complained about the fire department, or police department or transportation/road construction being funded. Those are essential services that the government should provide for. When you start getting into the government mandating or taking things by force, such as the progressive tax system that punishes success, confiscating private property, forcing people to buy health care insurance under the threat of prison time, taking over businesses (Government Motors, anyone), having a "pay czar" to tell people (mainly those "evil rich") how much they can make, among others and all for the so-called "public good," then yeah, I'd call that socialist.








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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Don't think anyone has ever complained about the fire department, or police department or transportation/road construction being funded. Those are essential services that the government should provide for. When you start getting into the government mandating or taking things by force, such as the progressive tax system that punishes success, confiscating private property, forcing people to buy health care insurance under the threat of prison time, taking over businesses (Government Motors, anyone), having a "pay czar" to tell people (mainly those "evil rich") how much they can make, among others and all for the so-called "public good," then yeah, I'd call that socialist.
    Well, yeah. I agree that there is a line, but we're just pointing out that on the political scale a lot of people disagree where the line should be drawn. For instance, a lot of people like socialized medicine for the elderly and veterans but not for the entire country. A lot of people think forcing people to pay for health insurance is going too far, but is that different from forcing people to pay for their children's education?

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire View Post
    If a bank, apartment complex, employer, etc... does a credit check OR background check... THEY WILL HOLD IT AGAINST YOU... weather or not your that same person at the current time is of no concern to them... I'm just sayin...
    Should we let our politicians (the very same people that made those laws for institutions to evaluate a person according to their back-ground) to have a set of different standards ??
    Are you really comparing a persons financial history with their high school actions?

    You do realize how that arguement is full of holes...right?
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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Don't think anyone has ever complained about the fire department, or police department or transportation/road construction being funded. Those are essential services that the government should provide for. When you start getting into the government mandating or taking things by force, such as the progressive tax system that punishes success, confiscating private property, forcing people to buy health care insurance under the threat of prison time, taking over businesses (Government Motors, anyone), having a "pay czar" to tell people (mainly those "evil rich") how much they can make, among others and all for the so-called "public good," then yeah, I'd call that socialist.
    But, those programs that we all like and expect are socialist! If you're going around whining about "socialism" or calling any US politician a socialist (when in reality we *all* are to some extent), it's impossible to have an honest debate because you don't understand what the word means. And, I wish people would stop saying we "took over" GM. We gave them a massive bailout that seems to be working. The President isn't sitting on the board picking out interior swatches.

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    But, those programs that we all like and expect are socialist! If you're going around whining about "socialism" or calling any US politician a socialist (when in reality we *all* are to some extent), it's impossible to have an honest debate because you don't understand what the word means. And, I wish people would stop saying we "took over" GM. We gave them a massive bailout that seems to be working. The President isn't sitting on the board picking out interior swatches.
    The U.S. Government is the largest shareholder in General Motors. So yeah, that means they "own" them. Weren't they also the ones who fired the former CEO right after they "bailed them out" and hand-picked the current CEO?

    I know damn well what the definition of "socialist" is. Socialism yields more and more power to the state, and takes it out of the hands of the people. The health care bill is a prime example of that. We have, in essence, given almost complete control over 1/6th of the U.S. economy to the feds. They are the ones who will now be setting the rules of the game. And apparently, you're just fine with that. I'm not.

    Sorry, but the government is too bloated and wasteful as it is. Time to start trimming the fat and force the government to start operating within a budget, just like the rest of America. We simply cannot afford it anymore.








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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by LLT View Post
    Are you really comparing a persons financial history with their high school actions?

    You do realize how that arguement is full of holes...right?
    "No Way" would I have got a hundred feet of "witchcraft" or anything on that same level in HS. I went to the service as soon as I turned 17 cause I was interested in serving my country... The point I'm trying to make is someone does know the difference between right and wrong at that age...
    But if your going to go by a person's background... you should be consistent... I don't agree with financial history checks and background checks "to an extent" regardless.
    I think the biggest question is whether or not her "witch meetings" consisted of Harry Potter like, childs play... or were they killing and sacrificing animals...

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by The Patriot View Post
    Well, yeah. I agree that there is a line, but we're just pointing out that on the political scale a lot of people disagree where the line should be drawn. For instance, a lot of people like socialized medicine for the elderly and veterans but not for the entire country. A lot of people think forcing people to pay for health insurance is going too far, but is that different from forcing people to pay for their children's education?
    No it's not. It's also not different from requiring people to have car insurance before they can drive a car. On its surface, I don't really have a problem with mandating that people carry health insurance. I believe everyone should have access to affordable health insurance. I just disagree on how it should be done and I certainly disagree on the punishment for choosing not to purchase insurance. That is the main difference between Obamacare and requiring people to pay for their kids' education or buying car or homeowner's insurance.








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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire View Post
    "No Way" would I have got a hundred feet of "witchcraft" or anything on that same level in HS. I went to the service as soon as I turned 17 cause I was interested in serving my country... The point I'm trying to make is someone does know the difference between right and wrong at that age...
    But if your going to go by a person's background... you should be consistent... I don't agree with financial history checks and background checks "to an extent" regardless.
    I think the biggest question is whether or not her "witch meetings" consisted of Harry Potter like, childs play... or were they killing and sacrificing animals...
    Teenage girls are a breed apart. They do all sorts of goofy things that are 180 degrees different than what their personality was when they were younger or what it will be when their older. Providing they don't commit crimes against others in this stage i think you should pretty much ignore it.
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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire View Post
    "No Way" would I have got a hundred feet of "witchcraft" or anything on that same level in HS. I went to the service as soon as I turned 17 cause I was interested in serving my country... The point I'm trying to make is someone knows the difference between right and wrong... even in HS....
    Right...but you are not legally liable for financial decisions at the age of 14-17 (your parents are)...because the law demands for parents to accept liability until young people reach an age of accountability.

    Municipailties...states..and the federal law recognizes that young people make bad decisions and protect them to an extent. How can you compare her actions in regards to the original post..to that which actually RECOGNIZES and protects young people and their bad decision making!!!???
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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Wonder how old was she when it went down ? But anyway. Bill Maurer said,"he's gonna keep throwing out bodies (about O'Donnell) every week until she agrees to come onto his show". Friday (tomorrow) will be the next one according to him... this stuff is gettin good... lol...

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by SteelerEmpire View Post
    Wonder how old was she when it went down ? But anyway. Bill Maurer said,"he's gonna keep throwing out bodies (about O'Donnell) every week until she agrees to come onto his show". Friday (tomorrow) will be the next one according to him... this stuff is gettin good... lol...
    Bill O'Reilly said the same thing to get her to come on the Factor. What?

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    The U.S. Government is the largest shareholder in General Motors. So yeah, that means they "own" them. Weren't they also the ones who fired the former CEO right after they "bailed them out" and hand-picked the current CEO?

    I know damn well what the definition of "socialist" is. Socialism yields more and more power to the state, and takes it out of the hands of the people. The health care bill is a prime example of that. We have, in essence, given almost complete control over 1/6th of the U.S. economy to the feds. They are the ones who will now be setting the rules of the game. And apparently, you're just fine with that. I'm not.

    Sorry, but the government is too bloated and wasteful as it is. Time to start trimming the fat and force the government to start operating within a budget, just like the rest of America. We simply cannot afford it anymore.
    uh no. Socialism is a collective effort by the people where everyone sacrifices for a greater communal good; i.e. the Commons. We all pay taxes for firemen so I don't have to worry about my neighbor having private fire coverage and setting the whole street on fire (we tried this experiment once and it FAILED). The "state" is the People.

    The Fed didn't get control of 1/6 of the economy (it should worry you that we have to pay that much to health insurers). That's a silly hyperbolic statement. They've just slapped more regulations on health insurers. And, the reason they did it which you seem to have forgotten is that over the last 15 years when the health insurance industry promised to change their ways (remember Clinton's attempt at health reform?), they just kept doing the same old thing and jacking up rates while their profits continued to skyrocket. And, that's the fundamental flaw with privatized health care. They continue to jack up rates and cut coverage. It's not in their interest to make you healthy, just to keep you paying each month. I wish we had a federal single-payer health care system where the government ran it because it would be better and cheaper like in all the other Western nations.

    But, the numbers don't matter to you because you're convinced that "government is stupid, private industry is smart." Reality isn't that simple.

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post

    And, the reason they did it which you seem to have forgotten is that over the last 15 years when the health insurance industry promised to change their ways (remember Clinton's attempt at health reform?)...

    But, the numbers don't matter to you because you're convinced that "government is stupid, private industry is smart." Reality isn't that simple.
    Actually it is pretty simple and the numbers do matter.

    Isn't it it funny that when the government fails to properly regulate an industry their reward is greater control of it...

    Speaking of numbers my daughter goes to a private school and her tuition is 1/4 of that of a public school up the road and their test scores are two grades higher than the public schools on average.

    Do these numbers matter to you or are you convinced that an inefficient, overpriced, monopolistic, deficit spending government is somehow a better solution to delivering goods and services than evil greedy capitalists?
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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    Actually it is pretty simple and the numbers do matter.

    Isn't it it funny that when the government fails to properly regulate an industry their reward is greater control of it...

    Speaking of numbers my daughter goes to a private school and her tuition is 1/4 of that of a public school up the road and their test scores are two grades higher than the public schools on average.

    Do these numbers matter to you or are you convinced that an inefficient, overpriced, monopolistic, deficit spending government is somehow a better solution to delivering goods and services than evil greedy capitalists?
    Yes, when an industry takes advantage of a lack of regulations the government steps in to protect its citizens. The horror of it all.

    Are you trying to say that your kid's private school is 1/4 cost per student? I don't know anything about the demographics of your area, so I have no clue what that means. Public schools have to work with every kid even the bad apples. They don't get to kick you out if you don't perform to keep up the numbers.

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    GodfatherofSoul Yes, when an industry takes advantage of a lack of regulations the government steps in to protect its citizens. The horror of it all.

    Protect it's citizens?

    Friend, are you implying that those who govern us are any less greedy, self serving and corrupt than those they are ostensibly protecting us from?

    I think you will agree that would be a difficult argument to win.


    Godfatherofsoul

    Are you trying to say that your kid's private school is 1/4 cost per student? I don't know anything about the demographics of your area, so I have no clue what that means. Public schools have to work with every kid even the bad apples. They don't get to kick you out if you don't perform to keep up the numbers.
    Yes, that was the primary point I wanted to get your thoughts on...that my daughters education costs as little as 1/4 of that of some public schools in our area.

    I am pointing out that monopolies, like this usually create a poorer quality product and are much more expensive.....that government products and services are usually way overpriced due to lack of competition.

    Surely you can understand this negative aspects of removing competition and forcing the tuition to be paid as opposed to having to compete for it.
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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    uh no. Socialism is a collective effort by the people where everyone sacrifices for a greater communal good; i.e. the Commons. We all pay taxes for firemen so I don't have to worry about my neighbor having private fire coverage and setting the whole street on fire (we tried this experiment once and it FAILED). The "state" is the People.

    The Fed didn't get control of 1/6 of the economy (it should worry you that we have to pay that much to health insurers). That's a silly hyperbolic statement. They've just slapped more regulations on health insurers. And, the reason they did it which you seem to have forgotten is that over the last 15 years when the health insurance industry promised to change their ways (remember Clinton's attempt at health reform?), they just kept doing the same old thing and jacking up rates while their profits continued to skyrocket. And, that's the fundamental flaw with privatized health care. They continue to jack up rates and cut coverage. It's not in their interest to make you healthy, just to keep you paying each month. I wish we had a federal single-payer health care system where the government ran it because it would be better and cheaper like in all the other Western nations.

    But, the numbers don't matter to you because you're convinced that "government is stupid, private industry is smart." Reality isn't that simple.
    Private industry is not always smart, nor do they always do the right thing. If they did, we'd have no need for government regulations of ANY kind. And yes, government is "stupid," and I wouldn't trust them to run a bake shop, much less a huge government program like Obamacare. We're talking about an entity that has brought us the "$400 hammer" and the multi-million dollar John Murtha Airport that has ONE flight per day. Yeah, I can really trust them to do the right thing.

    I don't know how many times I need to say that there's no question the health insurance system is broken. I haven't said it in THIS thread until now, but I've said this multiple times. It is absolutely ridiculous that my late mother could not get a supplemental Medicare plan simply because of her pre-existing conditions (ESRD). That is one thing about the bill that I DO agree with - nobody gets denied because of a pre-existing condition. Rates are definitely too high in relation to the amount of overall coverage that you get. I get all that. Where I disagree is the way it should be fixed. I still think allowing insurance companies to sell their policies across state lines with strict guidelines that they must follow in each state along with some of the consumer protections that are in Obamacare is the better way. That would work better than these so-called "exchanges" that IMO aren't going to do a thing to lower premium costs if they're limited only to the states where they do business. Not only that, the government gets to decide how much an insurer can increase their rates. Sounds good on the surface, but what happens if the company keeps having their increases rejected? And who determines how much of an increase is "excessive?" One of 2 things will happen - either they cut coverage, or they go out of business because they can't meet the needs of their customers.

    As for your single-payer system, there's no way in hell I will EVER support a government-run program. Never in a million years. You always talk about how wonderful and cheap these systems are, yet you completely ignore all of the problems that the countries that have such systems are having. Substandard hospitals. Inadequate staff. 6 month waiting lists for surgeries. Limited access to and development of new technologies. The last one is big, because if they're not spending as much on health care as we are in the US, then that also means they don't spend enough on R&D. People are coming HERE for surgeries that they can't get where they live, because it's either too expensive for the government or it's not available. Not to mention the fact that they will have control over your health care decisions and will decide whether you live or die, because protecting the bureaucracy comes first, second and last. Thanks, but no thanks. I've seen enough of all of the above from Medicare and the VA Hospital system.

    I'm sure you'll disagree and dispute all of this...fine. My mind isn't going to be changed, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.








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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    As for your single-payer system, there's no way in hell I will EVER support a government-run program. Never in a million years. You always talk about how wonderful and cheap these systems are, yet you completely ignore all of the problems that the countries that have such systems are having. Substandard hospitals. Inadequate staff. 6 month waiting lists for surgeries. Limited access to and development of new technologies. The last one is big, because if they're not spending as much on health care as we are in the US, then that also means they don't spend enough on R&D. People are coming HERE for surgeries that they can't get where they live, because it's either too expensive for the government or it's not available. Not to mention the fact that they will have control over your health care decisions and will decide whether you live or die, because protecting the bureaucracy comes first, second and last. Thanks, but no thanks. I've seen enough of all of the above from Medicare and the VA Hospital system.

    I'm sure you'll disagree and dispute all of this...fine. My mind isn't going to be changed, so we'll just have to agree to disagree.
    RICH people are coming here for surgeries. The health care debate isn't about our technology, it's about the COST and access. The insurance industry is the problem.

    You make it sound like the private health care industry isn't already making cost effectiveness decisions on your family's life. I'd rather have a government bureaucrat making those decisions based on medical advice than a private industry bureaucrat making that decision based on cost effectiveness and profit.

    Again, if other health care systems sucked so bad we wouldn't be #37 on the list (about 2 places higher than Cuba).

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by GodfatherofSoul View Post
    RICH people are coming here for surgeries. The health care debate isn't about our technology, it's about the COST and access. The insurance industry is the problem.

    You make it sound like the private health care industry isn't already making cost effectiveness decisions on your family's life. I'd rather have a government bureaucrat making those decisions based on medical advice than a private industry bureaucrat making that decision based on cost effectiveness and profit.

    Again, if other health care systems sucked so bad we wouldn't be #37 on the list (about 2 places higher than Cuba).
    Are you really saying that a government bureaucrat wouldn't make a decision based on cost effectiveness and "profit"? Seriously? You are living in fantasy land if you don't think that wouldn't happen. Absolutely NO way in hell I want some government bean-counter making my medical decisions. That should be the decision of my doctor and me. PERIOD.

    Yes, cost and access is the problem. Did you bother to read the part where I said that? Again, I AGREE that cost and access to health insurance is the problem. Where I DISAGREE is how it should be administered. You want, in essence, full government control over health care. I don't. That does NOT mean government should not regulate the industry in order to protect consumers - I believe they should. But there should be limits on how much they should regulate, because you still have to allow for the market to flourish. Insurers can't insure if they aren't making any money.








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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    Protect it's citizens?

    Friend, are you implying that those who govern us are any less greedy, self serving and corrupt than those they are ostensibly protecting us from?

    I think you will agree that would be a difficult argument to win.




    Yes, that was the primary point I wanted to get your thoughts on...that my daughters education costs as little as 1/4 of that of some public schools in our area.

    I am pointing out that monopolies, like this usually create a poorer quality product and are much more expensive.....that government products and services are usually way overpriced due to lack of competition.

    Surely you can understand this negative aspects of removing competition and forcing the tuition to be paid as opposed to having to compete for it.
    Am I to assume you're against government regulation? Your comparison doesn't work. We use government to protect our interactions with each other. We keep removing regulations and having major economic disasters based on people exploiting the absence of those laws; e.g. the Savings & Loan debacle, the Dot Com bubble, and the Mortgage crisis. It's well established that if you don't have rules in place, morality isn't going to stop people from screwing each other over. The roles of government and a private companies aren't comparable.

    And, I don't have a problem with competition. But, if the private industry was the bestest cheapest solution, we wouldn't have public colleges any more.

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    Re: Tea Party fields a pro-witchcraft candidate

    Quote Originally Posted by X-Terminator View Post
    Are you really saying that a government bureaucrat wouldn't make a decision based on cost effectiveness and "profit"? Seriously? You are living in fantasy land if you don't think that would happen. Absolutely NO way in hell I want some government bean-counter making my medical decisions. That should be the decision of my doctor and me. PERIOD.
    But, you have a private industry bean counter making those same decisions! Unless you're paying for your medical care with cash...

    I did make a mistake in saying a government official would be making the decisions. It's obviously your doctor. The problem we've been having is private industry bean counters keep putting the kabash on any medical care they think is too expensive.

    And, this debate wouldn't even exist if our private health care industry was doing a decent job and foreign public health care industries weren't doing so much better.

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