Tomlin to take DERRIUS GUICE out to dinner

[teegre]

I know, I know: this is really just ANOTHER Le’Veon Bell thread. But...


Tomlin & Colbert are taking Guice out to dinner, before attending Guice’s Pro Day on April 4th. (I forgot to include Colbert in the title.)

They also had a formal meeting with Guice at the Combine.

One of the main mock draft guys had said (I don’t remember which one) averred that Guice would 100% be the pick if he was there at 28.

Dinners mean a lot:
http://www.thepointofpittsburgh.com/...015-nfl-draft/

[Mojouw]

I like Guice as a prospect and think that he can have great success. If you want to find a weakness in his game, you can maybe talk about pass blocking.

However, I have a hard time seeing the Steelers go that way at #1. If for no other reason than that it just seems far more savage than I can ever remember the team being...

[DesertSteel]

People had a hard time seeing the Steelers taking a WR in R2 last year also........ Now that there are stop gaps at ILB and S, I can see them splurging on Guice in R1 and going defense for most of the rest of the draft.

[Born2Steel]

BPA. Due diligence is what this is. Guice may very well fall to 28 or 60. I would not be surprised(much) if 2 of the top 3 picks were on offense. We have zero depth at WR, TE, and RB. Ben has a 2 year contract currently. Add in that Colbert doesn't sound overly thrilled with this LB class, and anything can happen.

[SteelMember]

If the Steelers do decide to go RB, I would have no problem with Guice in the 1st. Although, getting Chubb in the 2nd, with similar measurables could be just as good. Still giving yourself the first round pick for defense...

[teegre]

I like Guice as a prospect and think that he can have great success. If you want to find a weakness in his game, you can maybe talk about pass blocking.

However, I have a hard time seeing the Steelers go that way at #1. If for no other reason than that it just seems far more savage than I can ever remember the team being...

1997 Rod Woodson was not a happy camper.

On draft day, the Steelers drafted Chad Scott AND signed Donnell Woolford.

We could be seeing the same kind of poker hand being played in April...

[tube517]

Guice > Juice ????

[steelreserve]

Less talked about: Tomlin had lunch at Taco Bell.

[Born2Steel]

Less talked about: Tomlin had lunch at Taco Bell.

That wasn't lunch, that was 4th meal.

[Mojouw]

1997 Rod Woodson was not a happy camper.

On draft day, the Steelers drafted Chad Scott AND signed Donnell Woolford.

We could be seeing the same kind of poker hand being played in April...

I'd forgotten about that!! Be interesting to see how much of this is "leverage" in negotiations -- both Bell and Colbert have made fairly bold statements.

[steelreserve]

I'd forgotten about that!! Be interesting to see how much of this is "leverage" in negotiations -- both Bell and Colbert have made fairly bold statements.

I don't think that'll do much.

This is all going exactly according to Bell's script - looking at other RBs -> we're disrespecting him -> drama -> thump his chest on social media about how everyone knows he's the best -> no contract -> drama -> big baller -> big rapper -> biggest drama in the FA market next offseason -> big money -> big baller -> big rapper

So that's pretty neat.

[teegre]

I'd forgotten about that!! Be interesting to see how much of this is "leverage" in negotiations -- both Bell and Colbert have made fairly bold statements.

The Steelers and the Giants have made trades before. And, during the 2014 draft, Tomlin reeeally wanted ODB. So, I’ll just put this idea out there...

Trade a disgruntled Bell for a disgruntled ODB.

Both players (and teams) get a fresh start.

[Shoes]

Guice & Tomlin should do a rap duo and send it to Bell.

[Steeldude]

Maybe a 4th round pick for him, maybe. Isn't he rather injury prone? He doesn't have much burst. I read his SPARQ number is rather low too. He looks like an average RB.

[Mojouw]

The Steelers and the Giants have made trades before. And, during the 2014 draft, Tomlin reeeally wanted ODB. So, I’ll just put this idea out there...

Trade a disgruntled Bell for a disgruntled ODB.

Both players (and teams) get a fresh start.

I mean it would be a sight to behold in the passing game. But the Steelers struggled to fit Bell's tag # under the cap. ODB wants 20+ per year.

I just don't see the Steelers paying ODB more than AB. I mean if you want to give that much cash to another weapon in the offense -- just sign Bell for something between 14 and 20 with an escape hatch for the team in 3 years and call it a day.

[Mojouw]

I don't think that'll do much.

This is all going exactly according to Bell's script - looking at other RBs -> we're disrespecting him -> drama -> thump his chest on social media about how everyone knows he's the best -> no contract -> drama -> big baller -> big rapper -> biggest drama in the FA market next offseason -> big money -> big baller -> big rapper

So that's pretty neat.

Meh. It is and has been the same script for almost every outsized NFL contract dispute ever. ODB and the Giants have been taking pot-shots at each other over the last year or so. Dez Bryant and the Cowboys were in the news recently. Earl Thomas walked into the Cowboys locker-room post-game to tell them to trade/sign him if Seattle continued to "disrespect" him. The list goes on and on.

None of the statements offered in the media by either side should really be taken as true and final positions. Remember, Burnett was only going to sign for $8 million or more as recently as the combine.

All Colbert is doing is reminding Bell and his camp who is holding the most leverage. It is the team and always has been.

For me the most interesting part would be if they draft a big-time RB. Then I honestly believe they will pull the tag and release Bell. Too many resources at the position if you draft a guy in the first two rounds this year.

Maybe they throw some cash at Bryant then?

[teegre]

I mean it would be a sight to behold in the passing game. But the Steelers struggled to fit Bell's tag # under the cap. ODB wants 20+ per year.

I just don't see the Steelers paying ODB more than AB. I mean if you want to give that much cash to another weapon in the offense -- just sign Bell for something between 14 and 20 with an escape hatch for the team in 3 years and call it a day.

Oooooh... yeah. I didn’t realize that ODB wanted that much.

Nevermind.

[steelreserve]

Meh. It is and has been the same script for almost every outsized NFL contract dispute ever. ODB and the Giants have been taking pot-shots at each other over the last year or so. Dez Bryant and the Cowboys were in the news recently. Earl Thomas walked into the Cowboys locker-room post-game to tell them to trade/sign him if Seattle continued to "disrespect" him. The list goes on and on.

None of the statements offered in the media by either side should really be taken as true and final positions. Remember, Burnett was only going to sign for $8 million or more as recently as the combine.

All Colbert is doing is reminding Bell and his camp who is holding the most leverage. It is the team and always has been.

For me the most interesting part would be if they draft a big-time RB. Then I honestly believe they will pull the tag and release Bell. Too many resources at the position if you draft a guy in the first two rounds this year.

Maybe they throw some cash at Bryant then?

First, I don't think we have any leverage. Bell is going to leave and that is that. We can make other plans without him - and we should, since that is what's going to happen - but that's not leverage. No one has any in this situation; it's all just a bunch of noise and the end result will be the same.

That's where I think things are at. It's not the "normal" posturing for NFL contract negotiations because it's not a negotiation at all. Bell wants to leave and flat-out has his mind made up, he won't come right out and say it yet, and in the meantime he feeds on the drama. It's not a real attempt to get a long-term deal, it's all part of the metagame for being the center of attention next offseason and making that into the biggest spectacle possible. He just may be competing with an even bigger ego and a bigger master of drama in ODB, though. Too bad for him.

[hawaiiansteeler]

We could be seeing the same kind of poker hand being played in April...

[teegre]

I read his SPARQ number is rather low too.

True.
Guice’s SPARQ score is in the lower third for RBs.

That said, the player with the highest SPARQ score ever is... Mike Mitchell.

[Mojouw]

First, I don't think we have any leverage. Bell is going to leave and that is that. We can make other plans without him - and we should, since that is what's going to happen - but that's not leverage. No one has any in this situation; it's all just a bunch of noise and the end result will be the same.

That's where I think things are at. It's not the "normal" posturing for NFL contract negotiations because it's not a negotiation at all. Bell wants to leave and flat-out has his mind made up, he won't come right out and say it yet, and in the meantime he feeds on the drama. It's not a real attempt to get a long-term deal, it's all part of the metagame for being the center of attention next offseason and making that into the biggest spectacle possible. He just may be competing with an even bigger ego and a bigger master of drama in ODB, though. Too bad for him.

That very well may all be true. In 2018 - the team does have a ton of options and that is leverage enough for me. Bell has no options - he plays for 14.5 million or he doesn't.

Moving forward - who knows? Not me.

As for Bell's personal feelings, I honestly believe that if the Steelers gave him $15 million per year for 5 years with about 45 guaranteed he would sign. Roughly the 3 year version of the Sammy Watkins contract. Is either Watkins or Bell worth those figures? Not likely.

However, barring injury, Bell is going to get that kind of cash somewhere next off-season. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2019/ take those #'s and divide them in half to account for the 20-30 guys each team needs to sign between now and then. Long story short, over half the league is projected to have $20 million or more in cap space next off-season. Surely those #'s will change, but if large amounts of cap room drove goofy contracts to second tier players this off-season -- what would it do with Bell on the open market? Low end QB money for sure.

[DesertSteel]

Maybe a 4th round pick for him, maybe. Isn't he rather injury prone? He doesn't have much burst. I read his SPARQ number is rather low too. He looks like an average RB.

I'd take a 7th round flier on him.

[steelreserve]

That very well may all be true. In 2018 - the team does have a ton of options and that is leverage enough for me. Bell has no options - he plays for 14.5 million or he doesn't.

Moving forward - who knows? Not me.

As for Bell's personal feelings, I honestly believe that if the Steelers gave him $15 million per year for 5 years with about 45 guaranteed he would sign. Roughly the 3 year version of the Sammy Watkins contract. Is either Watkins or Bell worth those figures? Not likely.

However, barring injury, Bell is going to get that kind of cash somewhere next off-season. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2019/ take those #'s and divide them in half to account for the 20-30 guys each team needs to sign between now and then. Long story short, over half the league is projected to have $20 million or more in cap space next off-season. Surely those #'s will change, but if large amounts of cap room drove goofy contracts to second tier players this off-season -- what would it do with Bell on the open market? Low end QB money for sure.

Yeah, I don't doubt that Bell-Einstein will get a significant amount of money somewhere. Good for him. I'm 99% certain that it won't be here, and that whatever we offer him, he'll turn it down because he's convinced that his open-market value is "whatever the Steelers offer me plus a couple million more." I mean, some of the circular reasoning he was using when he was actually negotiating (if you can call it that) about his starting point being higher because the franchise tag is higher just made it clear as day that this is someone who has no interest in signing a contract this year; the grass will be greener no matter what offer he gets.

As far as this season goes, it's equally clear: He'll play for $14.5 million, do the minimum and be disgruntled, and make sure everyone knows it.

Knowing that, I think we'd be well served to get a better alternative than Conner or Ridley if we can. As an inconsiderate S.O.B., I think it'd be GREAT if we had him splitting time with a standout rookie during his contract year, and finishing with like 700 yards in 12 games.

Of course, that's as long as it doesn't come at a cost of messing up the defense. But I think we have to start planning now as if Bell-Einstein isn't going to be here for very long, so I will not be upset about it if we take a RB in rounds 1-2 even when there are other "more urgent" needs. This one is actually pretty urgent.

[st33lersguy]

I wouldn't mind rb in round 1, but only if it is bpa considering it is one of the bigger needs

[FrancoLambert]

The Steelers and the Giants have made trades before. And, during the 2014 draft, Tomlin reeeally wanted ODB. So, I’ll just put this idea out there...

Trade a disgruntled Bell for a disgruntled ODB.

Both players (and teams) get a fresh start.

No thanks. I'll pass.

We would be exchanging one primma dona for another.

I'm surrounded by Giants fans and many of them are growing sick of his antics and are OK if he's sent packing.

Sounds too familiar.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I think we have to start planning now as if Bell-Einstein isn't going to be here for very long, so I will not be upset about it if we take a RB in rounds 1-2 even when there are other "more urgent" needs. This one is actually pretty urgent.

I think it's very urgent, we can't continue to let Bell-Einstein hold us hostage once again and go through the same bs we did last pre-season and then wait for him to get into playing shape the first couple of games. enough is enough, we all know Bell won't be here next season and it's time to plan for that inevitability.

[BlackAndGold]

Rudolph/Lamar Jackson?, Guice, ILB, safety. So many ways they could possibly go, makes the draft exciting.

But I honestly doubt they take a RB highly. It's not like taking a WR early. There is almost always 3 to 4 WR's out on the field, sometime they go 5 wide. Tomlin also doesn't believe in a 1-2 punch at RB, meaning Guice won't be seeing many snaps..

And no, they won't pull the tag from Bell.

[Hawkman]

Less talked about: Tomlin had lunch at Taco Bell.

But did he stay at a Holiday Inn?

[Mojouw]

Yeah, I don't doubt that Bell-Einstein will get a significant amount of money somewhere. Good for him. I'm 99% certain that it won't be here, and that whatever we offer him, he'll turn it down because he's convinced that his open-market value is "whatever the Steelers offer me plus a couple million more." I mean, some of the circular reasoning he was using when he was actually negotiating (if you can call it that) about his starting point being higher because the franchise tag is higher just made it clear as day that this is someone who has no interest in signing a contract this year; the grass will be greener no matter what offer he gets.

As far as this season goes, it's equally clear: He'll play for $14.5 million, do the minimum and be disgruntled, and make sure everyone knows it.

Knowing that, I think we'd be well served to get a better alternative than Conner or Ridley if we can. As an inconsiderate S.O.B., I think it'd be GREAT if we had him splitting time with a standout rookie during his contract year, and finishing with like 700 yards in 12 games.

Of course, that's as long as it doesn't come at a cost of messing up the defense. But I think we have to start planning now as if Bell-Einstein isn't going to be here for very long, so I will not be upset about it if we take a RB in rounds 1-2 even when there are other "more urgent" needs. This one is actually pretty urgent.

I think it's very urgent, we can't continue to let Bell-Einstein hold us hostage once again and go through the same bs we did last pre-season and then wait for him to get into playing shape the first couple of games. enough is enough, we all know Bell won't be here next season and it's time to plan for that inevitability.

For me, this is the most interesting piece of the Steelers' decision making process. Do you replace Bell in this off-season cycle or wait until next? If it were up to me, I would try and wait until 2019 as I honestly believe that RB is the easiest position for a rookie to contribute in. It additionally buys you time to see if Conner is a "feature" back.

OPTION 1 (play Bell on the Tag)
2018 - Bell + Conner + Touissant/Low Round Draft Pick/UDFA
2019 - Conner + "premium" Draft Pick + Complementary RB

OPTION 2 (pull the tag)
2018 - Conner + "premium" Draft Pick + Touissant/Low Round Draft Pick/UDFA
2019 - Conner + 2018 Draft Pick + Complementary RB

Again, only my opinion, but pulling the tag and not rostering Bell for 2018 seems to be the least return on available resources in terms of current draft picks and cap dollars. Unless there is a wholly unexpected release, their isn't much left to spend $14.5 million on...OVerall, it will be a fascinating referendum on Rooney and Colbert's beliefs about roster and locker-room construction. Other than drafting a QB, it will be the decision they will be judged on in the short-term.

THey could go another way and send Bell to take Guice to dinner...?

[Steeldude]

I wouldn't mind rb in round 1, but only if it is bpa considering it is one of the bigger needs

Barkley is the only RB that's worthy of a 1st round selection.