Harrison retires Part 2

[Craic]

Harrison twice played hardball with the Steelers to get what he wanted. First time, the Steelers said no and simply released when he wouldn't agree to a salary reduction. The second time, they gave him what he wanted and allowed him to walk.

Do I like it? No. I don't like how he handled it (although I am thankful he didn't take it all over the media like some other Einstein Steelers we could mention), and I don't like how he later sniped at Steelers Nation that supported him all these years.

That being said, he didn't pull this crap in the midst of his body of work. The first time it was pure business and nothing much was said outside of that. The second time it was after his body of work had been completed for the Steelers. There is no way that should reflect on the years of unbelievable plays this guy has made in the black and gold. That being said, it's probably a little too soon to have this discussion because as someone else said, the wounds are still a little fresh.

[fansince'76]

Where did TO divide and destroy locker rooms? Even McNabb, who TO and he had his differences, praised TO. Sure the guy was an asshole at times, but he didn’t destroy anything in San Fran or Dallas and it’s questionable that he actually did in Philadelphia after McNabb later praises the guy.

Regardless, I agree...Harrison and Owens situations aren’t remotely close.

Romo and Witten conspiring against him to "freeze him out" of the offense and drawing up plays behind his back? (For one example)

One can admire the guy for his athletic ability, but it's pretty well-documented he was a locker room cancer.

[DesertSteel]

Mendenhall would not even show up

According to Ed Bouchette of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, Mendenhall was a no-show for the game, failing to arrive after being told he wouldn’t be on the active game-day roster.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-sundays-game/

My point is fans forgive and/or forget for good to great players - which 70s player shot up a police helicopter and was a fan favorite ?

Which current player escaped being indicted for sexual assault in Georgia and now is idolized by most of the fan base?

Mendenhall is hardly a fan favorite and the Ben toss-in is a bit of a reach.

[fansince'76]

Mendenhall is hardly a fan favorite and the Ben toss-in is a bit of a reach.

Agreed. Mendenhall is a footnote in Steelers history. Harrison is not.

[zulater]

Agreed. Mendenhall is a footnote in Steelers history. Harrison is not.

Disagree. 'Spinderella was more than a footnote in Steeler history. He also authored a game changing play in the Super Bowl. Except his cost the Steelers all momentum and sealed a loss to the Packers. Sans his fumble real good chance the Steelers win that game.

[tube517]

In a couple of years, his temporary Cheats** tenure will be forgotten. I haven't thought about it since the Super Bowl.

Did I like the whole scenario? F no.

It will be pushed into the back of my mind like Franco's sad stint at Seattle.

[pczach]

I've been hard on Harrison for the nightmarish ending to his career in Pittsburgh. Now that I have stated that, there are two things that are inarguable about Harrison if both sides of this are being honest.

Side #1: He is an undeniably great Steelers player. He will forever be remembered as a dominant force and one of the nastiest, scariest players to ever play pro football. Harrison played with a relentlessness and a passion that inspires players and fans alike. He is without question an all-time Steelers great.

Side #2: He turned into a cancer in the locker room, and did more to undermine the goal of winning as any great Steelers player that I can think of. He disrespected the game, the organization, and everyone who rooted for him and looked at him as the example of how a leader should prepare and perform. Those acts affect the way I will think about him for as long as I breathe.

Many here don't seem to realize that he can be both. I'll always appreciate his great play as a Steeler. I will also always remember how little he really cared about the team and the fans.

[Craic]

Disagree. 'Spinderella was more than a footnote in Steeler history. He also authored a game changing play in the Super Bowl. Except his cost the Steelers all momentum and sealed a loss to the Packers. Sans his fumble real good chance the Steelers win that game.

True, but there's more than enough blame to go around for that superbowl. Ben didn't have his best game (threw two picks, one was returned for a TD and the other was turned into another 7). Troy P. didn't look good at all. The defense let the Packers march down the field whenever they wanted to as well. So, as much as the Mendy fumble hurts, the reality is it was only one of several different plays that killed the Steelers. We just remember it because it was the last big mistake.

[Born2Steel]

Since everyone is debating this, let me pose a question to add a little to it.

Which Steeler OLB should be considered for the HoF? Harrison, Lloyd, or Porter?

[AtlantaDan]

Mendenhall is hardly a fan favorite and the Ben toss-in is a bit of a reach.

You asked for a player who left after he was told he was inactive on game day - I gave you a name of someone who unlike Harrison did not even come to the stadium - fans had issues with Mendenhall for his 4th quarter fumble in the Super Bowl against Green Bay, not for his indifferent commitment to his profession

As far as Ben being a reach, think back on where Ben was with the fan base and owner (the Rooneys allegedly shopping him in a trade) in the spring of 2010 after his series of boorish acts (including but not limited to Milledgeville) that were recounted in the SI article I linked above - of couse after another trip to Super Bowl it was all good

Fans would forgive the Unabomber or Charles Manson if they delivered on the field

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

You asked for a player who left after he was told he was inactive on game day - I gave you a name of someone who unlike Harrison did not even come to the stadium - fans had issues with Mendenhall for his 4th quarter fumble in the Super Bowl against Green Bay, not for his indifferent commitment to his profession

As far as Ben being a reach, think back on where Ben was with the fan base and owner (the Rooneys allegedly shopping him in a trade) in the spring of 2010 after his series of boorish acts (including but not limited to Milledgeville) that were recounted in the SI article I linked above - of couse after another trip to Super Bowl it was all good

Fans would forgive the Unabomber or Charles Manson if they delivered on the field

All of what you state here is correct.

An anonymous NFL exec was once quoted as saying " If Hannibal Lechter ran a 4.3, he would be diagnosed with an eating disorder and signed to a contract".

[Lady Steel]

Happy Retirement, ya traitor!

[Dwinsgames]

I do agree the TD play was great, as was Ben's tackle after Bus fumble, etc., etc., but I still don't consider Harrison a 'franchise great'. Sorry.

then by that standard we must assume you do not believe the steelers have had any great pass rushers in their storied history ....


Harrison is the all time franchise sack leader

[Mojouw]

I also think that some players create a bond with the team they play for. Other players play for a pay check and ego and don't care about the jersey they wear. Which one is Harrison? Neither? Both? Who knows?

Fans expect the former and get upset if they suspect the latter. In the end, as long as player goes flat out between the white lines on Sundays - do we need to know their motivations?

[Dwinsgames]

I also think that some players create a bond with the team they play for. Other players play for a pay check and ego and don't care about the jersey they wear. Which one is Harrison? Neither? Both? Who knows?

Fans expect the former and get upset if they suspect the latter. In the end, as long as player goes flat out between the white lines on Sundays - do we need to know their motivations?

this

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Since everyone is debating this, let me pose a question to add a little to it.

Which Steeler OLB should be considered for the HoF? Harrison, Lloyd, or Porter?

its 92 and honestly not all that close

[Mojouw]

Since everyone is debating this, let me pose a question to add a little to it.

Which Steeler OLB should be considered for the HoF? Harrison, Lloyd, or Porter?

Harrison is the only one who even comes within shouting distance of the HOF. And if we argue that he is primarily a pass rusher, his career 84.5 sacks are lower than only Howie Long's (@ 80). Harrison would've needed at least 25 more sacks and likely about 50 more to have a realistic shot. His peak just wasn't long enough. The talent was there, but he missed about 3 prime seasons and he was never the dominant pass rusher of his era.

[Dwinsgames]

Harrison is the only one who even comes within shouting distance of the HOF. And if we argue that he is primarily a pass rusher, his career 84.5 sacks are lower than only Howie Long's (@ 80). Harrison would've needed at least 25 more sacks and likely about 50 more to have a realistic shot. His peak just wasn't long enough. The talent was there, but he missed about 3 prime seasons and he was never the dominant pass rusher of his era.

I wouldn't call 92 primarily a pass rusher though ....

not many men ever set the edge as well as 92

how many 3-4 OLB dropped in coverage as much as 92 and came anywhere near the sack totals of Harrison ? I would say zero

so while James could get after the passer he was so much more than a pass rusher

Teams / players feared him and rightfully so as he had the propensity to change the ebb and flow of a game

He could knock you out with punishing hits ...

92 was a complete player that played with a vengeance and often had a hand in the outcomes of games ...

he was as much of a game changer as 43 was IMO so Yes he has ( or should have ) a shot at the HoF ...

not a lock by any means and surely not 1st ballot but I think he gets in at some point

[Born2Steel]

Harrison is the only one who even comes within shouting distance of the HOF. And if we argue that he is primarily a pass rusher, his career 84.5 sacks are lower than only Howie Long's (@ 80). Harrison would've needed at least 25 more sacks and likely about 50 more to have a realistic shot. His peak just wasn't long enough. The talent was there, but he missed about 3 prime seasons and he was never the dominant pass rusher of his era.

Not sure I understand the career sacks point(numbers). Porter had 98 sacks for his career and he's not even in the top 25. As far as playing the OLB position, between those 3 I think Porter was the better get after the passer player. I think Harrison was the better all around LB. Lloyd was the guy you just knew was going to have that play or 2 per game that changed everything, like TP43 did. Stats aren't everything. I think I lean more toward Porter in this discussion though.

[Moose]

Not sure I understand the career sacks point(numbers). Porter had 98 sacks for his career and he's not even in the top 25. As far as playing the OLB position, between those 3 I think Porter was the better get after the passer player. I think Harrison was the better all around LB. Lloyd was the guy you just knew was going to have that play or 2 per game that changed everything, like TP43 did. Stats aren't everything. I think I lean more toward Porter in this discussion though.

Jack Lambert not too shabby either !

[Born2Steel]

Jack Lambert not too shabby either !

You mean Ham?

[Mojouw]

I wouldn't call 92 primarily a pass rusher though ....

not many men ever set the edge as well as 92

how many 3-4 OLB dropped in coverage as much as 92 and came anywhere near the sack totals of Harrison ? I would say zero

so while James could get after the passer he was so much more than a pass rusher

Teams / players feared him and rightfully so as he had the propensity to change the ebb and flow of a game

He could knock you out with punishing hits ...

92 was a complete player that played with a vengeance and often had a hand in the outcomes of games ...

he was as much of a game changer as 43 was IMO so Yes he has ( or should have ) a shot at the HoF ...

not a lock by any means and surely not 1st ballot but I think he gets in at some point

Not sure I understand the career sacks point(numbers). Porter had 98 sacks for his career and he's not even in the top 25. As far as playing the OLB position, between those 3 I think Porter was the better get after the passer player. I think Harrison was the better all around LB. Lloyd was the guy you just knew was going to have that play or 2 per game that changed everything, like TP43 did. Stats aren't everything. I think I lean more toward Porter in this discussion though.

While I agree with the idea that sacks are not the only measure of an OLB, the HOF seems to differ. Harrison is trying to crack the list copied in below. Every dude on their is known for either their prolific tackle #'s (the MLB) or their ability to sack the QB (the OLB/DE). No one is in the HOF for setting the edge. Harrison is not going to have the stats to stack up well against Doleman, Jackson, Greene, Tippet, Taylor, or Thomas. Those are the best comps for James Harrison currently in the HOF. Further if Harrison gets in, then you have to let guys like Elvis Dummerville, Joey Porter, Cam Wake, Ken Harvey, and Pat Swilling in as well. They all have better or similar pass rush #'s to Harrison. The Hall has so far been not viewing Swilling and Harvey as good candidates.

Looking at the stats of the guys on that list that played something akin to Harrison's position, 100 sacks minimum and likely north of 120 to really put you in an ideal position for the HOF to take a long look. I just don't see an OLB on that list with under 100 sacks.

Linebackers (29)

Chuck Bednarik (C-LB) 1949-1962
Bobby Bell (also DE) 1963-1974
Derrick Brooks 1995-2008
Nick Buoniconti 1962-1974, 1976
Dick Butkus 1965-1973
Harry Carson 1976-1988
George Connor (also DT, OT) 1948-1955
Chris Doleman (DE, LB) 1985-1999
Bill George 1952-1966
Kevin Greene (also DE) 1985-1999
Jack Ham 1971-1982
Chris Hanburger 1965-1978
Ted Hendricks 1969-1983
Sam Huff 1956-1967, 1969
Rickey Jackson LB (also DE) 1981-1995
Jack Lambert 1974-1984
Willie Lanier 1967-1977
Ray Lewis
Ray Nitschke 1958-1972
Les Richter 1954-1962
Dave Robinson 1963-1974
Joe Schmidt 1953-1965
Junior Seau 1990-2009
Mike Singletary 1981-1992
Lawrence Taylor 1981-1993
Derrick Thomas 1989-1999
Andre Tippett 1982-1993
Brian Urlacher
Dave Wilcox 1964-1974

[Moose]

I've been hard on Harrison for the nightmarish ending to his career in Pittsburgh. Now that I have stated that, there are two things that are inarguable about Harrison if both sides of this are being honest.

Side #1: He is an undeniably great Steelers player. He will forever be remembered as a dominant force and one of the nastiest, scariest players to ever play pro football. Harrison played with a relentlessness and a passion that inspires players and fans alike. He is without question an all-time Steelers great.

Side #2: He turned into a cancer in the locker room, and did more to undermine the goal of winning as any great Steelers player that I can think of. He disrespected the game, the organization, and everyone who rooted for him and looked at him as the example of how a leader should prepare and perform. Those acts affect the way I will think about him for as long as I breathe.

Many here don't seem to realize that he can be both. I'll always appreciate his great play as a Steeler. I will also always remember how little he really cared about the team and the fans.

Good reply pczach ! I agree with your 2 points. Harrison was a great player- but I personally don't agree with the 'greatest franchise' theory. Nastiest, scariest player also true- i.e. all the fines paid over the year's, although because of said fines started to lay back toward the end of career. In your second point I also agree. From different reads I understand he did start to become disliked by many of the player's for some reason or other. I just feel his heart/soul wasn't with the Steeler's organization, reputation and family feeling. Going to the bungholes was hurtful.....then the cheaters. He had to know the coaches, front office was doing what's best for the team. Why not just play when you get called, give it your all, cash the checks, respect the team, players, organization, fan's, and help all the younger players by teaching them your knowledge of the game. I think he made a pretty damn good living in the 'burgh. Seems to have worked for Hines, Troy, Keisel and a few others. Just my opinion.

[DesertSteel]

You asked for a player who left after he was told he was inactive on game day - I gave you a name of someone who unlike Harrison did not even come to the stadium - fans had issues with Mendenhall for his 4th quarter fumble in the Super Bowl against Green Bay, not for his indifferent commitment to his profession

As far as Ben being a reach, think back on where Ben was with the fan base and owner (the Rooneys allegedly shopping him in a trade) in the spring of 2010 after his series of boorish acts (including but not limited to Milledgeville) that were recounted in the SI article I linked above - of couse after another trip to Super Bowl it was all good

Fans would forgive the Unabomber or Charles Manson if they delivered on the field

Forget the fans... his own teammates dissed him. That's way different. A parallel would be Pete Rose. As a Reds fan, I wanted Rose in the HOF. But then I heard Morgan and Bench come out and say that they did not support him being in. This changed my position. If his own teammates did not want him in then that was an indictment that I could not overcome. When Cam, Moats, Dupree and the rest of the D come out in support of Harrison than I will honor him.

[Mojouw]

Selection of current and former team mates honoring Harrison - https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...eat-career-nfl

Remember, Troy and I think Hines were both really really pissed at the end of their time with the Steelers. Few dwell on that now...

[Born2Steel]

While I agree with the idea that sacks are not the only measure of an OLB, the HOF seems to differ. Harrison is trying to crack the list copied in below. Every dude on their is known for either their prolific tackle #'s (the MLB) or their ability to sack the QB (the OLB/DE). No one is in the HOF for setting the edge. Harrison is not going to have the stats to stack up well against Doleman, Jackson, Greene, Tippet, Taylor, or Thomas. Those are the best comps for James Harrison currently in the HOF. Further if Harrison gets in, then you have to let guys like Elvis Dummerville, Joey Porter, Cam Wake, Ken Harvey, and Pat Swilling in as well. They all have better or similar pass rush #'s to Harrison. The Hall has so far been not viewing Swilling and Harvey as good candidates.

Looking at the stats of the guys on that list that played something akin to Harrison's position, 100 sacks minimum and likely north of 120 to really put you in an ideal position for the HOF to take a long look. I just don't see an OLB on that list with under 100 sacks.

Linebackers (29)


Chuck Bednarik (C-LB) 1949-1962
Bobby Bell (also DE) 1963-1974
Derrick Brooks 1995-2008
Nick Buoniconti 1962-1974, 1976
Dick Butkus 1965-1973
Harry Carson 1976-1988
George Connor (also DT, OT) 1948-1955
Chris Doleman (DE, LB) 1985-1999
Bill George 1952-1966
Kevin Greene (also DE) 1985-1999
Jack Ham 1971-1982
Chris Hanburger 1965-1978
Ted Hendricks 1969-1983
Sam Huff 1956-1967, 1969
Rickey Jackson LB (also DE) 1981-1995
Jack Lambert 1974-1984
Willie Lanier 1967-1977
Ray Lewis
Ray Nitschke 1958-1972
Les Richter 1954-1962
Dave Robinson 1963-1974
Joe Schmidt 1953-1965
Junior Seau 1990-2009
Mike Singletary 1981-1992
Lawrence Taylor 1981-1993
Derrick Thomas 1989-1999
Andre Tippett 1982-1993
Brian Urlacher
Dave Wilcox 1964-1974

Totally agree with you on how the Hall looks at stats over career. That's exactly why I could see Porter in before Harrison. Plus Porter contributed on different teams.

Also....I didn't realize Seau played for 19 years. Damn!!

[DesertSteel]

Selection of current and former team mates honoring Harrison - https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...eat-career-nfl

Remember, Troy and I think Hines were both really really pissed at the end of their time with the Steelers. Few dwell on that now...

Two current players - V. Williams and Shazier.

[Moose]

Selection of current and former team mates honoring Harrison - https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...eat-career-nfl

Remember, Troy and I think Hines were both really really pissed at the end of their time with the Steelers. Few dwell on that now...

The 'team' mates are doing well by wishing him "congratulations" on his retirement. That's kind of typical when a person retires. If Troy and Hines were 'really, really pissed' it wasn't really publicized as a headliner. And they both remained a Steeler until the end.....as I recall. True Steeler's !

[Mojouw]

The 'team' mates are doing well by wishing him "congratulations" on his retirement. That's kind of typical when a person retires. If Troy and Hines were 'really, really pissed' it wasn't really publicized as a headliner. And they both remained a Steeler until the end.....as I recall. True Steeler's !

There is a treasure trove of stories about how upset Polamalu was that after signing a 3 year deal prior to the 2014 season that at the end of that season he was flat out told by the team to either retire or be released.

There are several reputable stories still archived on the Google machines that Ward was less than excited about being released. He wanted to come back, but the team didn't want him. He choose to retire, but was less than thrilled about it.

Look, if individuals have decided that Harrison is a no good SOB, it isn't like anything that gets posted here is going to change their mind. Current and former teammates seem to not really give a crap about any of this. I personally don't really either -- I just think it is interesting to look into.

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Totally agree with you on how the Hall looks at stats over career. That's exactly why I could see Porter in before Harrison. Plus Porter contributed on different teams.

Also....I didn't realize Seau played for 19 years. Damn!!

Honestly forgot about Porter's successful stretch with the 'Phins. He might squeak in, but I really doubt it.

[86WARD]

If you’re talking Steelers HOF, all three get in. If you are talking NFL HOF, Harrison has the best chance out of that trio. Not only because of his numbers alone but a lot of these voters take into consideration whether “the story of the NFL” can be told without that person. James adds a good amount to that story with his play on field, his historic Super Bowl return, his feud with Goodell, the piss tests. As weird as it sounds, some of those “off topic” type stories go in his favor. Quite a few voters discussed this in the past, especially about T.O.

Ultimately, I don’t think he’s a Hall if Famer, but if Terrell Davis can get in, anyone can.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

its 92 and honestly not all that close

I cant believe nobody has made a Jason Gildong reference yet.