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    I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !



    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    The thing is, that gentleman has a series of well thought out and impassioned points that are relevant, but he is not the majority. Almost across the board, the majority of Americans claim to want less guns and more regulation of firearms.

    http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

    In fact for the overwhelming majority of the last 2 decades (so a generation?) gun owners in America have been the minority.

    I am in favor of private gun ownership, I just simply believe that it should be significantly harder to obtain a gun than a driver's license.

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    The thing is, that gentleman has a series of well thought out and impassioned points that are relevant, but he is not the majority. Almost across the board, the majority of Americans claim to want less guns and more regulation of firearms.

    http://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

    In fact for the overwhelming majority of the last 2 decades (so a generation?) gun owners in America have been the minority.

    I am in favor of private gun ownership, I just simply believe that it should be significantly harder to obtain a gun than a driver's license.

    I adamantly disagree

    I won't bother to look at the poll because quite frankly I do not have any faith in such things ( no path to victory ring a bell about polls ? )

    a drivers license is a privilege and not a constitutional guaranteed right .

    cars kill more people in this country a year than guns .

    drunk drivers kill more people every year than are murdered with guns .

    firearms related death statistics comprise all forms of firearms death including suicide and death at the hands of a Police officer in the line of duty thus are a misleading ( intentionally so ) statistic . those same statistics include the deaths or armed perps who are killed by home owners defending their own lives and lives of family members ..so calling the stats skewed is putting it very mildly


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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    I adamantly disagree

    I won't bother to look at the poll because quite frankly I do not have any faith in such things ( no path to victory ring a bell about polls ? )

    a drivers license is a privilege and not a constitutional guaranteed right .

    cars kill more people in this country a year than guns .

    drunk drivers kill more people every year than are murdered with guns .

    firearms related death statistics comprise all forms of firearms death including suicide and death at the hands of a Police officer in the line of duty thus are a misleading ( intentionally so ) statistic . those same statistics include the deaths or armed perps who are killed by home owners defending their own lives and lives of family members ..so calling the stats skewed is putting it very mildly


    Didn't bring up death rates at all, not sure why you jumped to that. If you do not believe basic statistics, not sure what path forward there is for dialogue. I mean I am not sure how a poll can misrepresent legal gun ownership. Every study, poll, report from actual gun manufacturers, etc indicates that while there are a great deal of privately owned firearms in the United States (roughly 300 million from a quick Google search) these firearms are owned by roughly 1 in 3 households. Which means, the majority of Americans do not own a (legal) firearm.

    So it is false to argue that gun ownership is the majority status in the United States as a whole. In certain areas of the country it almost certainly is. The support of the principle of gun ownership may also be higher than 1 in 3 - but the actual possession of gun is simply not the majority overall across the country.

    Don't know why that is controversial, hard to accept, or otherwise debatable.

    As for Constitutional rights - how about voting? Why is harder to prove you are a legitimate voter than it is to purchase a gun? Again, I'm not about banning guns, taking away guns individuals already possess, etc -- but it just seems kinda BS that some Constitutional rights are far harder to exercise than others. And only one can directly lead to the harm or death of another person...

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Didn't bring up death rates at all, not sure why you jumped to that. If you do not believe basic statistics, not sure what path forward there is for dialogue. I mean I am not sure how a poll can misrepresent legal gun ownership. Every study, poll, report from actual gun manufacturers, etc indicates that while there are a great deal of privately owned firearms in the United States (roughly 300 million from a quick Google search) these firearms are owned by roughly 1 in 3 households. Which means, the majority of Americans do not own a (legal) firearm.

    So it is false to argue that gun ownership is the majority status in the United States as a whole. In certain areas of the country it almost certainly is. The support of the principle of gun ownership may also be higher than 1 in 3 - but the actual possession of gun is simply not the majority overall across the country.

    Don't know why that is controversial, hard to accept, or otherwise debatable.

    As for Constitutional rights - how about voting? Why is harder to prove you are a legitimate voter than it is to purchase a gun? Again, I'm not about banning guns, taking away guns individuals already possess, etc -- but it just seems kinda BS that some Constitutional rights are far harder to exercise than others. And only one can directly lead to the harm or death of another person...


    see the bold is why we can not have a logical debate on the topic ...

    have you ever in your lifetime went to a gun shop and tried to buy a gun ?

    if you have then you know for a fact what you said could not be further from the truth ... just more of the misinformation spread by the media and people soak it up like a sponge for no other reason than they haven't a clue based on first hand knowledge and therefore can not call bullshit ....

    here is why it is wrong ....

    I can go to my polling place and vote takes me 5 mins to drive there , 30 seconds to show ID , 2 mins to cast my ballot and 5 more mins to drive back home the entire process door to door in less than 15 total mins time

    hell I can not even get to a gun shop in 15 mins time ...

    once there even if you know EXACTLY what you are after you spend a good 15 mins filling out paperwork ( paperwork I should not have to fill out since I have a valid concealed carry permit so an extensive background check has already been done ) once I am done the dealer has some paperwork to do and then a phone call to the national instacheck background check ( through the FBI ) at which time my social is given to them and they run a check on me .... at the end of the call the dealer is provided with a pass or fail and a number to associate with my purchase ....

    so to say you can buy a gun quicker than you can vote ( or as Obama said buy a book ) is a complete fallacy
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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    see the bold is why we can not have a logical debate on the topic ...

    have you ever in your lifetime went to a gun shop and tried to buy a gun ?

    if you have then you know for a fact what you said could not be further from the truth ... just more of the misinformation spread by the media and people soak it up like a sponge for no other reason than they haven't a clue based on first hand knowledge and therefore can not call bullshit ....

    here is why it is wrong ....

    I can go to my polling place and vote takes me 5 mins to drive there , 30 seconds to show ID , 2 mins to cast my ballot and 5 more mins to drive back home the entire process door to door in less than 15 total mins time

    hell I can not even get to a gun shop in 15 mins time ...

    once there even if you know EXACTLY what you are after you spend a good 15 mins filling out paperwork ( paperwork I should not have to fill out since I have a valid concealed carry permit so an extensive background check has already been done ) once I am done the dealer has some paperwork to do and then a phone call to the national instacheck background check ( through the FBI ) at which time my social is given to them and they run a check on me .... at the end of the call the dealer is provided with a pass or fail and a number to associate with my purchase ....

    so to say you can buy a gun quicker than you can vote ( or as Obama said buy a book ) is a complete fallacy
    While nothing I could say will change your mind - I'll give it a whirl.

    Try attempting to exercise your right to vote without a birth certificate. This is usually the foundational form that allows for all other identification to be possible. Many Americans simply do not have birth certificates (here is a good example if you are interested - http://facetofacegermantown.org/news...-staff-writer/). This is becoming less of a problem as the generations of people born outside of the formal system is basically dying off -- but it is still a real barrier to a significant amount of people. Primarily some combination of rural, poor, and minority voters.

    You said you drive to your polling place - what if you don't have a car and there is no or limited public transport to your polling place? What if that polling place is too far to walk to? While there are other means of voting (mail) the lack of a conveniently accessible polling place creates a significant barrier for many poor, elderly, and rural voters.

    There are numerous other examples, but these two are some of the most comparable.

    Additionally, I full realize there are significant paperwork and background checks for gun purchases and permits. Clearly as someone who has gone through the process, you are fully aware of it. Still, getting a gun is about the easiest and most straightforward thing possible and you can even sidestep portions of the process if you buy your gun in the right state through the right setting that sidesteps much of the paperwork. Voting? No such luck in most places.

    But we have really wandered far afield of my original and extremely limited point/purpose: The majority of Americans do not own a firearm. That was literally my only point. Again, not sure why that is so controversial.

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Because you have to pass a federal back ground check every time you vote?


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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    I do not agree that the average American should have military grade weapons in their home.

    However, the constitution does give that right to the average American. And that is the part I do agree with. I am against any movement that takes rights away from the average American.

    I grew up with guns in the house so maybe I am biased. But I completely agree that the entire reason we live in a free society now, is because we have the right to bear arms, and not just the hunting rifle variety, but a right to the military grade weapons as well. How and why do people slip through the system is a completely different topic for conversation, and the conversation that needs to be had rather than what guns are within my rights to own.

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    I do not agree that the average American should have military grade weapons in their home.

    However, the constitution does give that right to the average American. And that is the part I do agree with. I am against any movement that takes rights away from the average American.

    I grew up with guns in the house so maybe I am biased. But I completely agree that the entire reason we live in a free society now, is because we have the right to bear arms, and not just the hunting rifle variety, but a right to the military grade weapons as well. How and why do people slip through the system is a completely different topic for conversation, and the conversation that needs to be had rather than what guns are within my rights to own.
    good post with exception to the bold ...

    an AR 15 or AK 47 that is legally owned by private citizens are NOT Military grade firearms

    an M16 or M4 is military versions of the AR they have burst mode/ full auto capabilities that the AR simply does not have

    same with the AK the civilian versions like the AR have no burst mode or full auto mode

    if either did they would be $8,000 and up in price and would require a federal tax stamp in order to purchase ...

    this " military grade crap" is the evening news and uninformed politicians spouting off about things in which they have no clue about ...

    semi auto 1 shot fired for every 1 trigger pull not much different in that found in old wheel guns ( 6 shooters / revolvers ) used in the old west


    one of my AR's here





    note the bullet chart ( ar is .223 / 5.56 ) I hunt deer with a 30.06 note the size in that round also in pic below




    lastly the primary 2 reasons the US Military went from 30 caliber to the M16 ( 22 caliber ) is

    1) ammo weight was a huge factor you can carry way more rounds of smaller lighter ammo into battle

    2) it is a far less lethal round , meaning you could shoot 1 person and effectively take 2-3 more out of the battle for a time while they drug their wounded compatriot to safer ground
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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    good post with exception to the bold ...

    an AR 15 or AK 47 that is legally owned by private citizens are NOT Military grade firearms

    an M16 or M4 is military versions of the AR they have burst mode/ full auto capabilities that the AR simply does not have

    same with the AK the civilian versions like the AR have no burst mode or full auto mode

    if either did they would be $8,000 and up in price and would require a federal tax stamp in order to purchase ...

    this " military grade crap" is the evening news and uninformed politicians spouting off about things in which they have no clue about ...

    semi auto 1 shot fired for every 1 trigger pull not much different in that found in old wheel guns ( 6 shooters / revolvers ) used in the old west


    one of my AR's here





    note the bullet chart ( ar is .223 / 5.56 ) I hunt deer with a 30.06 note the size in that round also in pic below




    lastly the primary 2 reasons the US Military went from 30 caliber to the M16 ( 22 caliber ) is

    1) ammo weight was a huge factor you can carry way more rounds of smaller lighter ammo into battle

    2) it is a far less lethal round , meaning you could shoot 1 person and effectively take 2-3 more out of the battle for a time while they drug their wounded compatriot to safer ground
    M16-A1 has full auto, A2 has 3 round burst.

    I think the issue is that the rounds "tumble"; they go in your leg and go out your chest. They are designed to wreak havoc to whatever it hits.

    Personally I don't agree with having those types of weapons. It has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment, that amendment has NOTHING to do with the weapons of today so IMO that argument is moot.

    With that said, I also disagree with anyone telling me what I can or cannot own. I do agree however with being a certain age in order to buy those weapons "as a civilian". I don't care if you're former military, being former military does NOT mean you know your way around a weapon.

    I was in the USMC and took the primary marksmanship instructor and coached many people to expert shooter who had never shot expert before. I could have made that my MOS but chose instead to get out to see what it's like being a civilian.

    To me, owning a firearm is not worth the risk. Too many stories about kids getting ahold of weapons etc. If I need protection, a high powered nail gun would do just fine.
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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by BnG_Hevn View Post
    M16-A1 has full auto, A2 has 3 round burst.

    I think the issue is that the rounds "tumble"; they go in your leg and go out your chest. They are designed to wreak havoc to whatever it hits.

    Personally I don't agree with having those types of weapons. It has nothing to do with the 2nd amendment, that amendment has NOTHING to do with the weapons of today so IMO that argument is moot.

    With that said, I also disagree with anyone telling me what I can or cannot own. I do agree however with being a certain age in order to buy those weapons "as a civilian". I don't care if you're former military, being former military does NOT mean you know your way around a weapon.

    I was in the USMC and took the primary marksmanship instructor and coached many people to expert shooter who had never shot expert before. I could have made that my MOS but chose instead to get out to see what it's like being a civilian.

    To me, owning a firearm is not worth the risk. Too many stories about kids getting ahold of weapons etc. If I need protection, a high powered nail gun would do just fine.
    thats why there are gun safes and small bedside hand/fingerprint safes for handguns it allows you to get ahold of it quickly but keeps the kids out
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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    thats why there are gun safes and small bedside hand/fingerprint safes for handguns it allows you to get ahold of it quickly but keeps the kids out
    That's true, but I can respect his position as well. I have a good friend that is the same way. He is one hundred percent pro-gun, but will not have a gun in his house until his son grows up because he doesn't want that one-in-a-million-mistake to be his mistake.

    I, on the otherhand, have no children in my house. As such, all my guns, whether in the safe or not, are fully loaded and chambered because I consider them all self-defense weapons and will grab any one of them in a self-defense scenario, depending on the issue. Heck, I have one sitting at my elbow on the desk right now. Of course, every single one of my handguns are holstered to protect the trigger and my long guns have the safeties on (I don't buy handguns with safeties. My finger knows where it should and should not go when it comes to weapons).


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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    I do not agree that the average American should have military grade weapons in their home.

    However, the constitution does give that right to the average American. And that is the part I do agree with. I am against any movement that takes rights away from the average American.

    I grew up with guns in the house so maybe I am biased. But I completely agree that the entire reason we live in a free society now, is because we have the right to bear arms, and not just the hunting rifle variety, but a right to the military grade weapons as well. How and why do people slip through the system is a completely different topic for conversation, and the conversation that needs to be had rather than what guns are within my rights to own.

    Define military grade.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    doesn't fit the narrative ... I was really shocked it was on yahoo
    Exactly. There are probably many stories like this, but liberals want to keep them quiet so they can push their anti-gun agenda.

    I laugh when I hear liberals claim the NRA is responsible for shootings.
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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    Define military grade.




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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post


    Haha. Sadly, that's pretty much true
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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    Haha. Sadly, that's pretty much true
    good thing it doesnt have a single point harness and carry handle too ......
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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    See Dwins video, the so called politicians and media are the ones who trying to divide the country on just about every issue.
    Put the blame where it really lies with the failure of the FBI/government that failed in their background checks. They blame an inanimate object(gun), law abiding citizens, manufactures, the NRA, ect, instead of the actual lunatic shooter.
    Blaming the NRA for shootings is like blaming AAA for drunk driving.


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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    While the media and politicians may indeed divide the population, there are simply divides based on where you live.


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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    While the media and politicians may indeed divide the population, there are simply divides based on where you live.

    I do not have anything to back it up here, but I'm going to go ahead a disagree with this statistic map. Putting % instead of raw numbers does not do the real picture any justice. In my opinion.

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    we do not even know what those percentage include/ disallow

    since only handguns are regulated in most states who is to say who owns what ?

    if I buy a shotgun in a private sale that is 1 shotgun they have no clue where it is and as you say 5 million a year disperse in that very manner

    I think it is only fair to assume that some of those guns are in households believed to not own a firearm

    could that / would that not skew the entire map of percentages ?

    then are they including the entire population in those percentages ( where many are not old enough to own a gun ? )

    are they including those in nursing homes and private care homes where they have basically left all their belongings behind ?
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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    the mental health issue is the largest issue we have in terms of firearms IMO....

    go back through history and look at " mass shootings" in this country and never has it been more prevalent than it is today .

    what I believe factors into it is we have people walking among us today highly medicated with mind altering drugs at a higher rate than in any time in our history

    those people for the most part blend in with society and go for the most part unnoticed .

    that is all well and good for the most part provided they stay regulated with proper dosages and do not skip or quit the meds .( nobody can control or regulate that aspect )

    the other side of that is many of the drugs they are using to combat mental illness have very dramatic and devastating side effects , the very drugs they are being given often times to control their mental state also could be the driving force that puts them over the edge ...

    we did not have these issues until the mid 80's ( consequently around the same time mass shootings started being an issue )

    the major change in society and mental health was at that time is when most state mental hospitals started to close and those folks that where in there where turned over to family to live among the population unchecked but medicated ... again medications that they where on their own to manage ..

    we see a rise in violent crime in the form of mass shootings perhaps not due to any of those that where once institutionalized but folks that would have perhaps been had those institutions not closed .

    kids being put on mind altering drugs at a very young age started to become common place , in many instances unnecessarily . those drugs rewire the brain so to speak and when 1 drug does not create a solution they change it out for another and another and yet another remapping the entire brain and how it works ... ( meanwhile many of them should have never been on drug 1 let alone drug 5 )

    now the kid turns 18 is considered an adult and can be out on his own , decides upon himself to stop taking said drugs ( the very drugs that often times screwed him up in the first place ) and his brain is all over the place trying to once again detoxify and rewire itself in how it functions ...

    we often times can not look at an individual and see a mental incapacity within their head ( sometimes you can but not always ) Hipaa laws do not permit any such checks within background checks so a gun dealer has only his visual stability of potential buyers to go on before allowing a gun to walk out the door if said individual passed the background check ( they have a right to refuse sale if they notice things about the potential buyer but those hints are not always prevalent ) ....

    most people are for the most part no different today than they where 200 years ago in terms to the value of life , I have never heard of 1 account from the 1800s where some kid took a gun to school and shot up his class and guns where for the most part more readily available to them then ( no gun safes in the house ) most homes esp on the frontier and old west had a gun over the fireplace , one loaded in the corner and a gun belt with a 6 shooter hanging by the door in a hat /coat rack on the wall .... in those times a couple things where very different ... no mental health drugs being used on small children and parents disciplined their children much differently ..... respect was taught and fear of being disobedient was a real thing ...

    I have ventured way further off topic than I probably should have and for that I apologize but the points are still valid from where I sit , your opinion I am sure will differ to some degree
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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    I'm not sure what seems so off about the map. No need to focus on the specific %'s - just that they can and do differ regionally. I've seen similar maps at the state and county level. In my own state, there is a significant geographic and demographic divide in gun ownership of any kind. In certain parts of the state, I would put gun ownership at 1 in 3 or 2 in 4 at best. In other parts of the state, I am certain that number goes to 2 in 3 or 3 out of 4.

    Not sure why that would be a controversial or suspicious number?

    http://www.oregonlive.com/data/2015/...rs_mapped.html
    "The data are available for download from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol and Firearms and include all licensed firearm importers, dealers and pawnbrokers. Excluded from our selection were people who: make or sell devices such as flare guns; manufacture firearms; or collect what the ATF calls "curios and relics.""



    If there are different amounts of gun dealers in different geographic areas, one would assume that may also correlate with different rates of market demand for that good and service?

    Again, I am not trying to make some grand over-arching point. I am simply trying to say that how you feel about guns, gun safety, gun ownership, and gun regulation is going to have a ton to do with where you grew up and now live. Some areas of the country have very low rates of gun ownership and people have an overall unfamiliarity with all aspects and tend to come down in favor of greater restrictions and regulation. Other areas of the country have higher rates of gun ownership and people develop a greater comfort and familiarity with guns and gun ownership and typically support less regulation and oversight.

    Any data visualization that attempt to cover an area the size of the US and represents several hundred million people is going to have to make a few concessions to generalization and presentation. But is anyone shocked to discover that more households own guns in Montana than in Rhode Island and by a wide margin? I fail to see what is unexpected about that?

  24. #24
    Senior Member Array title="Dwinsgames has a reputation beyond repute"> Dwinsgames's Avatar

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    914,000 hunting licenses sold in the state of Pa , not everyone that owns a firearm hunts ....( its not close really ) I know many people who just enjoy the shooting sport but do not hunt about 300 members at my local gun range ( the one I am a member of several others around as well ) only about half of the members hunt but all own guns

    my county alone over 13,000 conceal carry permits ( Population 88,000 ) and most people I know locally do not have a CCW but do own a gun of some kind ...

    point being nailing down a percentage without knowing how many guns there are in a state ( people move and some move a LOT ) people sell things privately ( it happens a lot go to armslist.com private sales from every state literally thousands of listings per state ) there is no way to know who buys /who sells if the seller had multiple guns and let go of a few and the people that bought had zero now have 1 each ...

    not disputing a lot do not have guns , but am saying more have them than people realize and the numbers will never be accurately depicted ...
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    Quest For Seven Array title="Mach1 has a reputation beyond repute"> Mach1's Avatar

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    What are the gun laws in Rhode Island vs. Montana. I'd bet theres a world of difference. Without taking that into consideration it's apple to oranges in states that pretty much ban guns, make it next to impossible to those who don't. Like comparing comifornia to wyoming for instance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    914,000 hunting licenses sold in the state of Pa , not everyone that owns a firearm hunts ....( its not close really ) I know many people who just enjoy the shooting sport but do not hunt about 300 members at my local gun range ( the one I am a member of several others around as well ) only about half of the members hunt but all own guns

    my county alone over 13,000 conceal carry permits ( Population 88,000 ) and most people I know locally do not have a CCW but do own a gun of some kind ...

    point being nailing down a percentage without knowing how many guns there are in a state ( people move and some move a LOT ) people sell things privately ( it happens a lot go to armslist.com private sales from every state literally thousands of listings per state ) there is no way to know who buys /who sells if the seller had multiple guns and let go of a few and the people that bought had zero now have 1 each ...

    not disputing a lot do not have guns , but am saying more have them than people realize and the numbers will never be accurately depicted ...
    You also can't count the ones who say they don't own guns for the simple fact that it's no ones business what they own or not.


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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    I don't know how to make this any clearer. There are regional and community based differences in rates of gun ownership and consequently the attitudes people hold about guns.

    Obviously there are a number of factors that can influence this reality such as legislation, leisure activities, living environment, etc. Additionally, the specific EXACT #'s might change but the fact that there are variations and often significant ones across our massive and diverse country is just a fact.

    It doesn't have to mean anything good or bad. It is not a judgement or a belief statement tied to a specific ideology. It is just a thing that is.

    Depending on your local community, gun ownership may be the majority or it may not. That's going to impact how the issues surrounding guns get talked about in that area/region.

    Again, it seems that some are taking offense at this idea or assuming I am using it for some larger agenda - and I am not.

    All I want to point out is that in some places owning a gun is the majority. In some places it is not. I've lived in both and it has impacted how I think about the issue.

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    Senior Member Array title="Dwinsgames has a reputation beyond repute"> Dwinsgames's Avatar

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    to a large point our entire debate / discussion is off course ...

    In many many ways what the man in the original posted video is saying " I am the majority"

    is simply this ...

    The Majority of people in this country have never shot anyone
    The Majority of the people in this country have never been convicted of a felony or violent crime
    The Majority of the people are the ones most affected by gun legislation and attempts to ban firearms or make it exceedingly more difficult to obtain
    The Majority of the people do not want to have rights ( in general) taken away or even challenged

    the way our Country is set up is you are innocent until proven guilty thus if I am innocent of the crimes that ban me from getting a firearm then why should it be harder because if I am guilty of those things I am already considered out of the loop for buying legally to begin with ...

    I will leave you with this to ponder .

    If not for the second amendment just how long do you think you would have your 1st , 5th or any other

    it is our 1 built in assurance that we keep the rest ...

    In other words the 2nd amendment is the glue that holds the rest of the constitution together
    Last edited by Dwinsgames; 04-10-2018 at 02:16 PM. Reason: typo
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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    I'll agree with that in principle. I don't think the 2nd Amendment any longer secures the others over and above the others securing the 2nd.

    Privately held hunting and sporting rifles and handguns are not going to do all that much if the 82 Airborne shows up in your hometown backed by attack helicopters, tanks, and air power.

    Despite what Red Dawn would have us believe....

    ...HOWEVER my personal opinion on that matter doesn't mean anyone has to agree with me or think about it how I do. It also doesn't mean I am correct on the issue either. Maybe an insurgent campaign waged with privately held firearms and improvised explosives would be enough to destabilize a tyrannical regime...hopefully we never have to know.

  29. #29

    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I'll agree with that in principle. I don't think the 2nd Amendment any longer secures the others over and above the others securing the 2nd.

    Privately held hunting and sporting rifles and handguns are not going to do all that much if the 82 Airborne shows up in your hometown backed by attack helicopters, tanks, and air power.

    Despite what Red Dawn would have us believe....

    ...HOWEVER my personal opinion on that matter doesn't mean anyone has to agree with me or think about it how I do. It also doesn't mean I am correct on the issue either. Maybe an insurgent campaign waged with privately held firearms and improvised explosives would be enough to destabilize a tyrannical regime...hopefully we never have to know.
    I would greatly disagree here. Why? Because I believe gun ownership not only secures other constitutional rights, it is the sole guarantor of human rights. here's what I mean. I believe in the right to human self agency (self determination) and right to life. In order for that right to exist, it must exist in reality, not just in an academic mindset. Therefore, it must exist for the each and every human being equally. The problem is, there are millions of people who are stronger than I am, faster than I am, etc. therefore, my right to self-determination and right to life is not true rights. Instead, I exist purely at the benevolence of the strongest person in my locale. Now, people might ban together to make a stronger group, but that only proves my point that rights only exist for the strongest. So, if I'm walking down the street one day, and someone comes up to me and shoves me in an alley, I no longer have the right to life; I am existed purely on the person's benevolence in the moment. To assure my right to life, I must be able to bring about a parity of force. It doesn't matter how much I train, I'm a middle-aged man. i won't be as strong as a 20 something who works out every day. Furthermore, knives or other instruments go to dexterity and speed. Thus, what closes the gap to a place where parity of forces can be said to exist, is a firearm.

    Therefore, the only guarantee of human rights, let alone constitutional rights, is the right to bear arms.


  30. #30
    Senior Member Array title="Dwinsgames has a reputation beyond repute"> Dwinsgames's Avatar

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    Re: I will just leave this here .... I am the majority !

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I'll agree with that in principle. I don't think the 2nd Amendment any longer secures the others over and above the others securing the 2nd.

    Privately held hunting and sporting rifles and handguns are not going to do all that much if the 82 Airborne shows up in your hometown backed by attack helicopters, tanks, and air power.

    Despite what Red Dawn would have us believe....

    ...HOWEVER my personal opinion on that matter doesn't mean anyone has to agree with me or think about it how I do. It also doesn't mean I am correct on the issue either. Maybe an insurgent campaign waged with privately held firearms and improvised explosives would be enough to destabilize a tyrannical regime...hopefully we never have to know.
    I believe it does empower the people to keep their rights far more than a piece of paper does ...

    as for the rest , I do not believe they would do air strikes on our own people on our own soil that would require other Americans just like us to carry any such order out and to be quite honest I do not believe there is a snowballs chance in hell they would have many if any takers , orders be damned
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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