Steelers at Lamar Jackson’s pro day

[teegre]

El-Gonzo, you got me thinking. There’s one draft analyst out there whose opinion I completely respect, and it is Greg Costello. The dude is money.

So... I did a Google search and found this:

https://sports.yahoo.com/greg-cosell...145150269.html

I haven’t even read it yet (I got excited and simply posted it). But, the title tells me that Costello probably disagree with Charlie Casserly.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

El-Gonzo, you got me thinking. There’s one draft analyst out there whose opinion I completely respect, and it is Greg Costello. The dude is money.

So... I did a Google search and found this:

https://sports.yahoo.com/greg-cosell...145150269.html

I haven’t even read it yet (I got excited and simply posted it). But, the title tells me that Costello probably disagree with Charlie Casserly.

Thanks for the link Teeg, I will have a look. I honestly don't get "excited" to hear a good or bad review of Jackson or any other prospect. I just honestly look at it and see if it makes sense and if I agree or not.

Do you remember Mike Vick at VT ? I remember him having a good base when he threw the football and it had a ton of velocity and he was fairly accurate. Now can we say that of Jackson or does his game film smatter of inexplicable inaccurate throws, followed with some great ones? Did you see the NFL Combine workout of Jackson? He threw a couple footballs that were embarrassing for a highschool senior to throw. He pulled the string on a long throw that fluttered like it was tipped at the LOS and it instantly made me think of the inaccuracy comments. I don't care if the kid is drafted #1 overall or in the 5th round. I'm just telling what I see and I agree that Mike Vick was a more accomplished pocket passer during his draft year than Lamaar Jackson is now.

[Mojouw]

Thanks for the link Teeg, I will have a look. I honestly don't get "excited" to hear a good or bad review of Jackson or any other prospect. I just honestly look at it and see if it makes sense and if I agree or not.

Do you remember Mike Vick at VT ? I remember him having a good base when he threw the football and it had a ton of velocity and he was fairly accurate. Now can we say that of Jackson or does his game film smatter of inexplicable inaccurate throws, followed with some great ones? Did you see the NFL Combine workout of Jackson? He threw a couple footballs that were embarrassing for a highschool senior to throw. He pulled the string on a long throw that fluttered like it was tipped at the LOS and it instantly made me think of the inaccuracy comments. I don't care if the kid is drafted #1 overall or in the 5th round. I'm just telling what I see and I agree that Mike Vick was a more accomplished pocket passer during his draft year than Lamaar Jackson is now.

For me there is a potential big difference between the two. I grant that Vick might have been the superior passer coming out of school - I honestly don't remember. But Vick showed a stubborn refusal to be coached and a seeming unwillingness to modify his game at all. Combine that with a series of coaching staffs who seemed determined to jam him into a role he was not ideally suited for and you have a recipe for disaster. Now, I may be remembering this all wrong. But I kinda think there was little chance that Reeves was going to change his whole offense the way Obrian did for Watson and someone or other did for Kapernick during his good stretch.

If Jackson is willing to be coached and to make improvements/modifications to his game as well as have the team modify it's offense to a degree - I believe he can be far more successful than Vick ever was. And likely replicate and repeat the success of Watson last season.

As fans there is no way to know that since we are not in the interview rooms and coaching meetings.

[Iron Steeler]

He makes his receivers work to much. Not catchable ball. He will be affective in a RPO offense . But npt ours

[pczach]

For me there is a potential big difference between the two. I grant that Vick might have been the superior passer coming out of school - I honestly don't remember. But Vick showed a stubborn refusal to be coached and a seeming unwillingness to modify his game at all. Combine that with a series of coaching staffs who seemed determined to jam him into a role he was not ideally suited for and you have a recipe for disaster. Now, I may be remembering this all wrong. But I kinda think there was little chance that Reeves was going to change his whole offense the way Obrian did for Watson and someone or other did for Kapernick during his good stretch.

If Jackson is willing to be coached and to make improvements/modifications to his game as well as have the team modify it's offense to a degree - I believe he can be far more successful than Vick ever was. And likely replicate and repeat the success of Watson last season.

As fans there is no way to know that since we are not in the interview rooms and coaching meetings.

I think Vick was a better natural thrower, but that Jackson is ahead of him from a mental standpoint of understanding the game at the same points of their careers.

What I think that tells me is that Jackson is coachable and working harder on the game. Vick was never forced to truly embrace playing the position from the neck up. His physical gifts and rocket arm made NFL coaches hesitant to try to restrict him. In the end, it hurt his career and most of the teams he played for.

With Jackson, I see a kid that is trying like hell to learn the position. He makes some wonderful throws....then will throw some ducks. I don't know if hand size is a problem or his grip, but that shouldn't be happening to a someone that has been throwing the ball as much as he has for years now.

He's not a player I would take in the first round, but I do see potential in him and the drive to get better.

[zulater]

My biggest problem if this were the pick is it does nothing to help this team this and next season win a championship! I want a player that can come right in and contribute to a Super Bowl run. Finding Ben's successor can wait for a little longer.


Time might prove me wrong. And if the Steelers choose this path oh well. But I want to add to this defense and gives this team a real chance to add to that Super Bowl trophy case!

[teegre]

Thanks for the link Teeg, I will have a look. I honestly don't get "excited" to hear a good or bad review of Jackson or any other prospect. I just honestly look at it and see if it makes sense and if I agree or not.

Do you remember Mike Vick at VT ? I remember him having a good base when he threw the football and it had a ton of velocity and he was fairly accurate. Now can we say that of Jackson or does his game film smatter of inexplicable inaccurate throws, followed with some great ones? Did you see the NFL Combine workout of Jackson? He threw a couple footballs that were embarrassing for a highschool senior to throw. He pulled the string on a long throw that fluttered like it was tipped at the LOS and it instantly made me think of the inaccuracy comments. I don't care if the kid is drafted #1 overall or in the 5th round. I'm just telling what I see and I agree that Mike Vick was a more accomplished pocket passer during his draft year than Lamaar Jackson is now.

I live in San Diego; so, he was dissected to the fullest (before the Chargers traded out of the #1 spot). Also, a friend of mine at the time was a VaTech fan. And, my family are mostly all WVU alums (so Vick was readily discussed).

So... here is what I remember about Vick.

When Vick planted his feet, he could put the ball through a wall. But, he lacked the touch to make a simple 10-yard pass. More importantly, Vick was a runner who threw as a second choice.

Now, Lamar has some problems. But, he improved every year. If given time, I feel that his flaws are fixable.

[DesertSteel]

The mocks on that guy are all over the place.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Mike Mayock predicts Lamar Jackson will be first-round pick

By Edward Lewis
Around The NFL Writer
Published: April 20, 2018

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300...irstround-pick

[hawaiiansteeler]

A note on Lamar Jackson's Wonderlic score of 13:

Nine quarterbacks were drafted in the past 15 years with a Wonderlic of 15 or less, according to Bob McGinn. Those names were, alphabetically:

Josh Booty
Nate Davis
Josh Johnson
Zac Robinson
Troy Smith
Tyrod Taylor
Seneca Wallace
Andre Woodson
Vince Young

Of those nine, only Young and Taylor were starters for an extended period of time, and neither was particularly good. Young had a decent stretch for a couple of seasons, but flamed out because he never developed as a passer, failing to ever throw for more than 12 touchdowns in a single year. Taylor is currently a starter, but not for long. Jackson's Wonderlic of 13 doesn't mean he'll necessarily fail - with some great coaching, I think he could become a good starter - but history is going against him.

http://walterfootball.com/combine2018QB.php

[DesertSteel]

If he goes in the top half of the first, it is the true definition of a roll of the dice. If he translates... watch out! But if not... It could cost a coach his job.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

A note on Lamar Jackson's Wonderlic score of 13:

Nine quarterbacks were drafted in the past 15 years with a Wonderlic of 15 or less, according to Bob McGinn. Those names were, alphabetically:

Josh Booty
Nate Davis
Josh Johnson
Zac Robinson
Troy Smith
Tyrod Taylor
Seneca Wallace
Andre Woodson
Vince Young

Of those nine, only Young and Taylor were starters for an extended period of time, and neither was particularly good. Young had a decent stretch for a couple of seasons, but flamed out because he never developed as a passer, failing to ever throw for more than 12 touchdowns in a single year. Taylor is currently a starter, but not for long. Jackson's Wonderlic of 13 doesn't mean he'll necessarily fail - with some great coaching, I think he could become a good starter - but history is going against him.

http://walterfootball.com/combine2018QB.php

Thanks for posting. While its not the end all test and sure some will find the exceptions (I'm sure Brett Favre couldn't even spell Wonderlic) of QB's that succeeded. It never ceases to amaze me how often people want to discount general intelligence, at a position that seemingly requires a high degree of intelligence to be successful.

[hawaiiansteeler]

4/23: "I've heard the Steelers are are high on Lamar Jackson, and sources that were at the Louisville pro day said they brought all of the top decision makers there to watch Jackson." - Charlie Campbell, WalterFootball.com

I personally have Jackson going to the Saints in my 2018 NFL Mock Draft, but I've slotted him to the Steelers in the past. If I had to guess, I'd say one of Pittsburgh or New Orleans trades up for Jackson. -Walter

http://walterfootball.com/nflrumors/teamdraft/17-32

[BlackAndGold]

4/23: "I've heard the Steelers are are high on Lamar Jackson, and sources that were at the Louisville pro day said they brought all of the top decision makers there to watch Jackson." - Charlie Campbell, WalterFootball.com

I personally have Jackson going to the Saints in my 2018 NFL Mock Draft, but I've slotted him to the Steelers in the past. If I had to guess, I'd say one of Pittsburgh or New Orleans trades up for Jackson. -Walter

http://walterfootball.com/nflrumors/teamdraft/17-32

[86WARD]

If they do that, it would be sooooooo disappointing...

[pczach]

If they do that, it would be sooooooo disappointing...

I like Lamar Jackson, but he won't help the team right away unless he plays slot receiver. If the Steelers want to win now, you would think they would take a position player, not a quarterback in the first round.

If the roster was set, and they didn't have many holes to fill, I'd be ok with it. Unfortunately, that's not the case and they already have limited draft picks. I'd rather they move down and pick up additional picks if a great player that fits the scheme isn't available in the first or they think they can still get the players they want a little later.

[86WARD]

I like Lamar Jackson, but he won't help the team right away unless he plays slot receiver. If the Steelers want to win now, you would think they would take a position player, not a quarterback in the first round.

If the roster was set, and they didn't have many holes to fill, I'd be ok with it. Unfortunately, that's not the case and they already have limited draft picks. I'd rather they move down and pick up additional picks if a great player that fits the scheme isn't available in the first or they think they can still get the players they want a little later.

Feel the same.

[Dwinsgames]

I agree with pczach and would add even if we knew this was Bens last year ( he claims otherwise via reports of 2-3 more years ) Jackson is not a guy you plug into THIS scheme .... he is not a prototypical QB his play style is quite different than we are accustomed and system changes and blocking schemes would need to be changed ...

it has always been my theory you draft a guy who fits your system there is 11 guys on offense not 1 ....

Get a guy who can run ( and run effectively) what the other 10 are already accustomed to as the apple cart is already upset enough when you make a change at the field general pos

[IowaSteeler927]

A note on Lamar Jackson's Wonderlic score of 13:

Nine quarterbacks were drafted in the past 15 years with a Wonderlic of 15 or less, according to Bob McGinn. Those names were, alphabetically:

Josh Booty
Nate Davis
Josh Johnson
Zac Robinson
Troy Smith
Tyrod Taylor
Seneca Wallace
Andre Woodson
Vince Young

Of those nine, only Young and Taylor were starters for an extended period of time, and neither was particularly good. Young had a decent stretch for a couple of seasons, but flamed out because he never developed as a passer, failing to ever throw for more than 12 touchdowns in a single year. Taylor is currently a starter, but not for long. Jackson's Wonderlic of 13 doesn't mean he'll necessarily fail - with some great coaching, I think he could become a good starter - but history is going against him.

http://walterfootball.com/combine2018QB.php

Interesting. Jackson is definitely his own person, but none of the guys on that list inspire confidence. Gotta have the brains to play QB in the NFL to go along with the talent. Talent in and of itself usually doesn't lend itself well to the QB position. You can have all the talent and raw natural athleticism in the world and still be a terrible QB because you just can't grasp the game. I wish this young man success, I try not to put too much stock in Wonderlic scores, but that list is an interesting bit of information that seems to suggest low Wonderlic scores aren't exactly translating to a ton of success on the field. Conversely though, there are a lot of guys that are highly intelligent and have degrees in areas like Engineering, or Business and they suck it up when they make it to the NFL...

I will say this though, when I was in college the football guys were some of the dumbest guys in our school. They were definitely getting passed through classes they shouldn't have been passing. Half the time or more they didn't even show up for class, and when they were actually in class they were about as collectively intelligent as a box of pet rocks. That's not to say it was every guy on the football team, but a majority of them weren't exactly the brightest crayons in the box. Having watched shows like Last Chance U, it kind of irritates me some times how many passes these guys get just because of their athletic abilities.