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Thread: So, about Hubbard, Gilbert, Foster ...

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    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    So, about Hubbard, Gilbert, Foster ...

    I know it's widely assumed Hubbard will be gone as soon as free agency hits, because he's played himself out of our price range and we have other things to worry about. I admit that's the most likely situation. We probably would not be able to keep him unless we let go of someone else. BUT, I just wonder if that might happen. Out of our five starting linemen, AV, Pouncey and DeCastro are not going anywhere, that's a given. However, consider this:

    - A 1:1 swap for Gilbert (releasing Gilbert, keeping Hubbard) is the well-worn debate and has its drawbacks. What's not talked about is that Foster is 32 and in the final year of his contract, and we are going to need a replacement for him sooner rather than later. He might be the more likely candidate to be cleared out here, since Hubbard can play guard too.

    - What would a contract for Hubbard look like? Well, if it's top-10 LT money, forget it. But it doesn't sound like that's quite the case. According to this recent article, a likely amount could be more like $4-5M a year. Foster makes $3.5M. So split the difference and call it an increase of about a million, maybe 1.5M for a guy 7 years younger who can play both positions and might be the starter for years to come. Does that sound worth it? It sure sounds like it to me.

    - As far as cap numbers go. Releasing Foster would save about $2.5M considering the dead money. If it was a $4.5M average contract for Hubbard, we could probably fit that in by spreading out some of the cap hit with bonuses and such.

    - Now what about the other case, releasing Gilbert. Now, I don't think that's too likely given that he's been a very good RT for us, but to play devil's advocate, he's also going to be 30 and in the second-to-last year of his contract, and who knows if the PED issue might have gotten some in the FO a little skittish. For the sake of argument, let's assume it did. What would that look like?

    - Well, being in the second-to-last year of his contract gives some additional options with Gilbert, for example the June 1 release. If we were to let him go right now, we'd save about $4 million, which probably lets us do that deal by itself. BUT, a June 1 release would make that closer to $6M if I'm not mistaken. Why is that important? Well, it would cover the rookie class plus about a million dollars. So unlike most situations where cutting someone June 1 doesn't do anything because you can't find good players on the FA market at that point, this would actually fit a purpose quite nicely.

    - Again, it's not likely unless someone's got it in their head that they are not happy with Gilbert. But, also consider that Hubbard can play both tackle positions as well as guard, and that Gilbert probably isn't here for more than 2-3 years anyway due to age, and it gets more tempting.

    At any rate, this is mostly under the radar because people assume Hubbard is probably gone - but actually one of the more complicated puzzle pieces of the offseason if you consider all the angles including age. Personally, I think it unlikely we do anything with Gilbert despite my own reservations about players' usual career tracks after being busted for PEDs ... if anything, a move to replace Foster is more likely.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: So, about Hubbard, Gilbert, Foster ...

    I like the logic, but I have a couple of thoughts to throw in. Despite the yards and point, many folks more well versed than I in offensive line play say that Hubbard significantly limits the offense compared to when Gilbert plays. Apparently it changes the play calling and formations in a substantial way. My question is does that make the team worse or just different?

    Also, what is the ranking at guard and associated drop-off as one moves from Foster to Hubbard to Finney?

    Finally, is Hawkins better than Hubbard? During portions of his rookie year the answer looked like "Yes". During parts of last year, the answer looked like "Nope". In other words, if Hawkins can = Hubbard, isn't it just more straightforward to let Hubbard walk and let well enough alone on the OL?

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    Senior Member Array title="pczach has a reputation beyond repute"> pczach's Avatar

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    Re: So, about Hubbard, Gilbert, Foster ...

    We kicked this one around a few months ago.

    I expressed concerns about:

    Gilbert getting caught using PED's.
    His recent rash of injuries and if they are related to the use of PED's.
    The amount of money he is making.
    Wondering that now he has been caught...will his performance remain at the same level?
    Was Hubbard playing at the same level as Gilbert with a chance to improve, younger in age, and cheaper?

    Most here seemed to think they should stick with Gilbert, but I am not so sure.

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: So, about Hubbard, Gilbert, Foster ...

    Gilbert is better than Hubbard at RT. Foster is better than Hubbard at LG. So I see both starters being solid in their position and Hubbard might just be a guy that finds more $$ elsewhere than the Steelers are willing to pay. I think Finney is better at guard or center than Hubbard, so he is likely in line to replace Foster if not another draft pick. Feiler will become the next project to be on the roster at G/T.

    Jerald Hawkins is a strong inline blocker with athleticism to play LT, but I think he looks as though he has struggled somewhat in pass protection, so might project to RT, or another candidate to play guard. He is thinner in the waist than guys like Foster or Finney, but really light on his feet IMO.

    So, IMO we will see Hubbard let walk, then another later round draft pick of somebody that can play G/C will be added and Finney will project to play LG in 2019 if Foster not extended at the age of 33. You just cant pay everybody big dollars. Need to get some production from guys on relatively inexpensive contracts.

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    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: So, about Hubbard, Gilbert, Foster ...

    Good ideas.

    But...

    Gilbert is much better than Hubbard. Hubbard played well/allowed few sacks, but he was not the same as Gilbert (who, IMO, was our best O-lineman when healthy).

    Foster isn’t going anywhere. He’s a team leader, and great in pass protection. That said, every year, I look for his replacement (upgrade) in the draft, but he keeps surviving. LOL Speaking of which, if the Steelers went OG at 28, I wouldn’t be pissed...

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    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: So, about Hubbard, Gilbert, Foster ...

    Those are good points. I honestly all but forgot about Feiler and Hawkins. I definitely am comfortable seeing Finney in there at G/C, he's played so well there's hardly been any drop-off that I could see.

    Yeah, I guess it could just be the wrong place, wrong time for Hubbard because it looks like there are comparable guys behind him at both positions for less money and no need to do anything dramatic. I do feel a lot better about our future at OL having considered all this, though. Such a far cry from the old days when even the starters you didn't want to keep.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: So, about Hubbard, Gilbert, Foster ...

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Those are good points. I honestly all but forgot about Feiler and Hawkins. I definitely am comfortable seeing Finney in there at G/C, he's played so well there's hardly been any drop-off that I could see.

    Yeah, I guess it could just be the wrong place, wrong time for Hubbard because it looks like there are comparable guys behind him at both positions for less money and no need to do anything dramatic. I do feel a lot better about our future at OL having considered all this, though. Such a far cry from the old days when even the starters you didn't want to keep.
    Yup, he is going to move on likely and good for him. I think a good utility guy and some team with real struggles at O line will need a guy like him. I honestly think with guys like Finney, Hawkins, Feiler rounding out the top 8 O linemen, its in good shape, but would not be surprised to see an interior line prospect drafted in the 5th round.

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    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: So, about Hubbard, Gilbert, Foster ...

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Good ideas.

    But...

    Gilbert is much better than Hubbard. Hubbard played well/allowed few sacks, but he was not the same as Gilbert (who, IMO, was our best O-lineman when healthy).

    Foster isn’t going anywhere. He’s a team leader, and great in pass protection. That said, every year, I look for his replacement (upgrade) in the draft, but he keeps surviving. LOL Speaking of which, if the Steelers went OG at 28, I wouldn’t be pissed...
    Nelson should be long gone by 28 but, just maybe....would you take Winn if there as well?

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