Replacing Bell!

[steelreserve]

https://247sports.com/nfl/pittsburgh...ewis-115346881

"Fist me, Tom!"

I'll be fine if we pass.

[lipps83]

The problem would be that we let Bell walk for no real reason, since we had the money. Then if anything at all goes wrong with the new guy - from injury, to just not being as good - we'll wish we hadn't cut Bell loose just so we could stare at a pile of money. Exposing ourselves to unnecessary risk with no payoff, basically.

This makes no sense and is not much of a justification to keeping Bell. There is risk no matter who you sign. What if they sign Bell and he gets hurt or continues to regress like this past year and is not as good, then what? A bunch of wasted money down the drain AND they lost out on someone they were targeting.

If anything, there is less risk (and less money involved, which actually is important) in signing a player on the upswing that doesn't have an injury history. That is just the opposite of Bell, a slowly regressing player with an injury history.

[Shoes]

If the Steelers & Bell can't come to an agreement can the Steelers trade him?

[Mojouw]

This makes no sense and is not much of a justification to keeping Bell. There is risk no matter who you sign. What if they sign Bell and he gets hurt or continues to regress like this past year and is not as good, then what? A bunch of wasted money down the drain AND they lost out on someone they were targeting.

If anything, there is less risk (and less money involved, which actually is important) in signing a player on the upswing that doesn't have an injury history. That is just the opposite of Bell, a slowly regressing player with an injury history.

So who is this young RB on the upswing that is just chilling out in free agency?

You can Google the list as well as anyone else. Put name to this vague assertion.

I believe this is what Born2steel has been asking for for months.

[AtlantaDan]

If the Steelers & Bell can't come to an agreement can the Steelers trade him?

A player cannot be traded until he signs the tag and the team has some rights to trade

This article on Washington's threat to tag Kirk Cousins (apparently out of spite since Alex Smith is headed to Washington) walks through the scenario of trying to trade a tagged player and concludes it most likely would be a disaster

A franchise-tagged player can be traded and teams can work out any compensation they like; they can deviate from the two first-round draft picks that a franchise-tagged player’s new team must give to his previous team if the player is signed to an offer sheet not matched by his previous team. So it might be tempting for the Redskins to take the tag-and-trade approach with Cousins. The idea would be to get back more for Cousins that the compensatory draft pick in 2019 (possibly a third-rounder) that would result from him leaving in free agency....

But the potential problems with that strategy could outweigh the prospective benefits.


First, there is the prospect that Cousins and his representatives could file a grievance alleging that the Redskins would be in violation of the CBA if they tag Cousins to trade him. The CBA says that a team which extends a tender offer to a player, as with a franchise-player deal, must negotiate with that player in good faith....


It’s unlikely a team would want to trade for Cousins — and give up something meaningful in exchange for him — and then merely inherit his one-year, $34.5 million deal. That would be cumbersome to the new team’s salary cap and would provide no guarantee that Cousins would be more than a one-year rental player. Any team trading for Cousins almost certainly would want him to agree to a new contract as part of the deal.
But why would Cousins do that? Why would he cooperate to facilitate a tag-and-trade approach by the Redskins? He would be better off being on the free agent market.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.106fae514e9b

[Born2Steel]

Lol. First, Doug Martin Type = below average veteran back, because really that’s all that would be available. Secondly, there’s way too many holes on the defense to waste a first or second round pick on a RB. If you think that a draft pick and below average veteran are replacing Bell and his production, you’re living a pipe dream. No need to cherry pick the thread as you say...lol. It’s just not a realistic thought. Easily one of the best backs in the league...you don’t hope to replace that with what you are suggesting.

No need to get all snippy about it...lol.

The REAL LOL here is that you think that's my argument. It's the EXACT OPPOSITE.

What you posted there is the same thing I have been saying since we started this offseason.

[lipps83]

So who is this young RB on the upswing that is just chilling out in free agency?

You can Google the list as well as anyone else. Put name to this vague assertion.

I believe this is what Born2steel has been asking for for months.

Bell is irreplaceable so why should the front office even try? The team obviously can't move forward without him. A season without a star running back? How could football go on without Bell? What happens when he retires? Should the franchise fold without Bell?

Has a team ever moved forward without a star player before in sports? I can't recall.

This is a first.

How did the Eagles win a super bowl without Bell, or even a star back? If they can't do it, the Steelers for sure can't.
Or the Patriots
Broncos

How did they win without Bell? How is that possible?

THERE ARE NO OPTIONS WHATSOEVER OUTSIDE OF BELL SO DON'T LOOK

This team can't win without Bell. It's impossible.

[Shoes]

A player cannot be traded until he signs the tag and the team has some rights to trade

This article on Washington's threat to tag Kirk Cousins (apparently out of spite since Alex Smith is headed to Washington) walks through the scenario of trying to trade a tagged player and concludes it most likely would be a disaster

A franchise-tagged player can be traded and teams can work out any compensation they like; they can deviate from the two first-round draft picks that a franchise-tagged player’s new team must give to his previous team if the player is signed to an offer sheet not matched by his previous team. So it might be tempting for the Redskins to take the tag-and-trade approach with Cousins. The idea would be to get back more for Cousins that the compensatory draft pick in 2019 (possibly a third-rounder) that would result from him leaving in free agency....

But the potential problems with that strategy could outweigh the prospective benefits.


First, there is the prospect that Cousins and his representatives could file a grievance alleging that the Redskins would be in violation of the CBA if they tag Cousins to trade him. The CBA says that a team which extends a tender offer to a player, as with a franchise-player deal, must negotiate with that player in good faith....


It’s unlikely a team would want to trade for Cousins — and give up something meaningful in exchange for him — and then merely inherit his one-year, $34.5 million deal. That would be cumbersome to the new team’s salary cap and would provide no guarantee that Cousins would be more than a one-year rental player. Any team trading for Cousins almost certainly would want him to agree to a new contract as part of the deal.
But why would Cousins do that? Why would he cooperate to facilitate a tag-and-trade approach by the Redskins? He would be better off being on the free agent market.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.106fae514e9b

Thanks for the info

[DesertSteel]

So who is this young RB on the upswing that is just chilling out in free agency?

You can Google the list as well as anyone else. Put name to this vague assertion.

I believe this is what Born2steel has been asking for for months.

There ain’t one. He’s in the draft.

[Born2Steel]

With the problems this team has in the middle of this defense, do you guys honestly think spending a 1st or 2nd round pick on a RB is a smart move? At best, at the very best, he becomes what Bell already is.

[steelreserve]

This makes no sense and is not much of a justification to keeping Bell. There is risk no matter who you sign. What if they sign Bell and he gets hurt or continues to regress like this past year and is not as good, then what? A bunch of wasted money down the drain AND they lost out on someone they were targeting.

If anything, there is less risk (and less money involved, which actually is important) in signing a player on the upswing that doesn't have an injury history. That is just the opposite of Bell, a slowly regressing player with an injury history.

What are you talking about? The original situation given was tag Bell, draft a replacement RB, then revoke the tag and let Bell walk. In other words:

1. Reserve $17 million in cap space for Bell

2. Let the lion's share of free agents come and go without having any cap space

3. Draft a running back

4. Let Bell go

5. Sit there with $17 million in cap space that you can't spend and a worse RB situation than when you started.

On what planet made entirely of crack cocaine does that make sense? If you tag Bell, you're committing to not using $17M for anything else, so you might as well get something out of it. Draft a running back too, or don't, it doesn't matter which - if you have the cap space reserved all the way through the draft, you're not getting anything better for your $17 million than Bell, so releasing him just means you're hurting yourself.

If they're committed to finding a replacement, then fine, but either don't tag him and spend the money on something else, or tag him and keep him for a year. Don't carry the vacant cap space and get no player; that's just stupid.

[Mojouw]

Bell is irreplaceable so why should the front office even try? The team obviously can't move forward without him. A season without a star running back? How could football go on without Bell? What happens when he retires? Should the franchise fold without Bell?

Has a team ever moved forward without a star player before in sports? I can't recall.

This is a first.

How did the Eagles win a super bowl without Bell, or even a star back? If they can't do it, the Steelers for sure can't.
Or the Patriots
Broncos

How did they win without Bell? How is that possible?

THERE ARE NO OPTIONS WHATSOEVER OUTSIDE OF BELL SO DON'T LOOK

This team can't win without Bell. It's impossible.

So no one but you is saying any of that. All some are asking is if not Bell, then who? Like throw an actual option out there.

Or you could just keep saying vague thins like young back on the rise or draft pick.

Cool. Cool.

What about this instead:

Resign Ridley.
Bet on Conner's health.
Throw 4 million at CJ Anderson to come ride shotgun

There's two run first guys and a pass catching back.

Now we can have an actual conversation. With like information and ideas and stuff.

Or we can go your way.

[Hawkman]

Bell is irreplaceable so why should the front office even try? The team obviously can't move forward without him. A season without a star running back? How could football go on without Bell? What happens when he retires? Should the franchise fold without Bell?

Has a team ever moved forward without a star player before in sports? I can't recall.

This is a first.

How did the Eagles win a super bowl without Bell, or even a star back? If they can't do it, the Steelers for sure can't.
Or the Patriots
Broncos

How did they win without Bell? How is that possible?

THERE ARE NO OPTIONS WHATSOEVER OUTSIDE OF BELL SO DON'T LOOK

This team can't win without Bell. It's impossible.

Making some nice contributions tonight, aren’t you?

[Born2Steel]

So no one but you is saying any of that. All some are asking is if not Bell, then who? Like throw an actual option out there.

Or you could just keep saying vague thins like young back on the rise or draft pick.

Cool. Cool.

What about this instead:

Resign Ridley.
Bet on Conner's health.
Throw 4 million at CJ Anderson to come ride shotgun

There's two run first guys and a pass catching back.

Now we can have an actual conversation. With like information and ideas and stuff.

Or we can go your way.

I think I get it now, but I admit to being a bit slow at times. You MUST use vague terms such as 'draft a guy', otherwise your entire point becomes something else all together. This entire day's discussion stems from ME( never again) using an option(other than the one I've been saying all along) to explain why a long term deal with Bell is the best solution. That actually resulted in creating conversations on why that's a bad option(SteelReserve), why we could never replace Bell's production with a draft pick(86Ward), and whether or not the league could exist without Bell on the roster(Lipps). Just amazing really.

[steelreserve]

I think I get it now, but I admit to being a bit slow at times. You MUST use vague terms such as 'draft a guy', otherwise your entire point becomes something else all together. This entire day's discussion stems from ME( never again) using an option(other than the one I've been saying all along) to explain why a long term deal with Bell is the best solution. That actually resulted in creating conversations on why that's a bad option(SteelReserve), why we could never replace Bell's production with a draft pick(86Ward), and whether or not the league could exist without Bell on the roster(Lipps). Just amazing really.

Eh? I do think a long-term deal with Bell is the best option if we can do it. That other nonsense about tagging and un-tagging him was what was no good.

[Born2Steel]

Eh? I do think a long-term deal with Bell is the best option if we can do it. That other nonsense about tagging and un-tagging him was what was no good.

I'm begging you to go back and read the entire conversation from page 1. I could not get a point across so I tried a different tack. It just proves again that texting/typing is a horrible way to get your point across.

[Mojouw]

I'm begging you to go back and read the entire conversation from page 1. I could not get a point across so I tried a different tack. It just proves again that texting/typing is a horrible way to get your point across.

That's a good point. Almost all of the discussion here would end in agreement in person over a beer. It is so hard to debate on a web forum without sounding like you're coming after someone.

Half my posts are just devil's advocate stuff not meant to ruffle the feathers that I do.

[Born2Steel]

That's a good point. Almost all of the discussion here would end in agreement in person over a beer. It is so hard to debate on a web forum without sounding like you're coming after someone.

Half my posts are just devil's advocate stuff not meant to ruffle the feathers that I do.

A lot of times I get reactions to posts that are not really anything to do with what I posted. I'm sure I have done the same. If you read a sentence with the emphasis on a different word than the writer had when writing, you can get a totally different meaning than was intended.
OR
When you bring up a thought, that you think may be an interesting conversation topic, and it becomes a rally against one stat/name/number/etc, that was in your original thought, but not the point of it. I love those.

LOL!!!

Anyway, heading to Indy for another basketball tournament. Hopefully some positive things will happen Steelers-wise this week as well.

[DesertSteel]

That's a good point. Almost all of the discussion here would end in agreement in person over a beer. It is so hard to debate on a web forum without sounding like you're coming after someone.

Half my posts are just devil's advocate stuff not meant to ruffle the feathers that I do.

It's all good with me! I look forward to reading your posts.

[Mojouw]

It's all good with me! I look forward to reading your posts.

Good! I look forward to your postings as well.

[lipps83]

What are you talking about? The original situation given was tag Bell, draft a replacement RB, then revoke the tag and let Bell walk. In other words:

That was my fault, I didn't know you were specifically referring to the franchise tag.