Bouchette Doesn’t Believe Steelers Will Use 5th Year Option On Bud Dupree

[Shoes]

BY ALEX KOZORA JANUARY 31, 2018 AT 02:27 PM
Though far from gospel, one of the top Pittsburgh Steelers’ beat writers doesn’t believe the team will place the fifth year option on outside linebacker Bud Dupree. In one of his Steelers’ chats yesterday,Ed Bouchette was asked if the team will exercise Dupree’s option season. His response?

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/01...on-bud-dupree/

[st33lersguy]

[SteelerFanInStl]

I don't know why they wouldn't. It's not like as if we have a better option right now. Like Bouchette said, if he doesn't perform, then they can just cut him with no dead money.

[86WARD]

Exactly. They are basically riding with on OLB on a team that needs 4 total LB starters.

[AtlantaDan]

I don't know why they wouldn't. It's not like as if we have a better option right now. Like Bouchette said, if he doesn't perform, then they can just cut him with no dead money.

Yep - it is not as if any team ever gets burned on guaranteeing the $$ on the fifth year option if the player is injured

After this past season Dupree may not be in the Jarvis Jones neighborhood but he is getting closer

My guess is the option is not exercised

[zulater]

I think they will. He may have been hampered with a shoulder injury all season. Anyway he's been a disappointment, no doubt. But not a bust. Risk/ reward factor measured in it makes more sense than not to guarantee the 5th year.

[Born2Steel]

There are 2 risks involved here. The financial risk of Dupree getting injured and the Steelers being 'stuck' with paying a player that's on IR. OR, there is the risk of having a LB corps of players worse than Dupree because you opted to let him walk. As a fan, and not an owner, my biggest fear is the on-the-field side of the issue. Bud Dupree starts because nobody else on the team is good enough to take his spot, Think about that for a second or 2. Bud was only able to use one arm for a portion of the season, and nobody could supplant him. That's not saying Bud has been great up till now, that's how bad the backups are. Until his injured shoulder is diagnosed as a chronic issue, and/or somebody steps up to take the job from him, how can I justify just letting him walk? Whatever the money situation is, we still need to be able to win games. It's not as easy as "just draft somebody, anybody". We failed on 2 of the last 3 first round OLBs we selected.
As for the money side, the level of risk has yet to be determined, or at least made public. We do not know the extent of his shoulder issues. If this is going to be a chronic problem and there will continue to be games where Bud has to play one-armed, common sense dictates no 5th year option. I don't care how much Bud gets paid per season. If he signs a $100M contract or a $100K contract. My ONLY concern is if we are winning games or not.

[Mojouw]

My response to Dupree and Mitchell are the same thing. Despite the fact that they are under-performing their anticipated cap #'s, we need to look at Colbert's history on this stuff. He doesn't go into the draft with gaping holes in his starting 22. He certainly goes in with guys that need improvement and replacement, but he rarely (if ever) hits draft day with a total donut hole on the starting depth chart.

So for that reason, they pick up Dupree's fifth year option. Because after him and Watt the depth chart reads "some guys".

[Born2Steel]

My response to Dupree and Mitchell are the same thing. Despite the fact that they are under-performing their anticipated cap #'s, we need to look at Colbert's history on this stuff. He doesn't go into the draft with gaping holes in his starting 22. He certainly goes in with guys that need improvement and replacement, but he rarely (if ever) hits draft day with a total donut hole on the starting depth chart.

So for that reason, they pick up Dupree's fifth year option. Because after him and Watt the depth chart reads "some guys".

In all honesty, after Dupree and Watt the depth chart reads, Chickillo and Adams. "Some Guys" actually gives me a bit more hope that one of them will be good.

[steelreserve]

I don't see what benefit there is to exercising it. If we really have a problem at OLB and need to keep him on the roster, we can re-sign him for a lot less than $10 million. Or if we spend $10 million, we can use it on someone a lot better than Dupree.

People keep saying "what's the downside" - but what's the upside? Nothing positive happens from exercising the option.

Hey great, we can use the option and then cut him loose before we have to pay it. What did we gain from that? Nothing. Why even do it?

[Steeldude]

I would rather have Chickillo. At least he hustles. No difference in the way Dupree and Chickillo obtained their sacks.

It's time to move on from the Dupree project. Draft an OLB early again.

[Mojouw]

I don't see what benefit there is to exercising it. If we really have a problem at OLB and need to keep him on the roster, we can re-sign him for a lot less than $10 million. Or if we spend $10 million, we can use it on someone a lot better than Dupree.

People keep saying "what's the downside" - but what's the upside? Nothing positive happens from exercising the option.

Hey great, we can use the option and then cut him loose before we have to pay it. What did we gain from that? Nothing. Why even do it?

You buy time to identify and develop a replacement. He plays this year on a totally manageable cap # even if his production stays exactly the same. If you exercise the option, you can let this draft come to you. No need to "reach" for an edge rusher because you know you have a hole in your starting line-up after 2018 season. Can even do the same thing a bit in 2019 draft - if the cap allows you to pay the 5th year option to Dupree.

Now if "random 3rd round pick" or Adams or "street free agent" comes in and is productive - pull the option and wish Dupree luck as he moves on with his life's work.

Alternatively, you figure Dupree had a mini-breakout in 2018. Say 50 tackles 9 legit sacks and a couple of turnovers. Additionally, he starts to display a plan during his pass-rush. Well then you hit him with a team friendly extension and buy out his option year and sign an "emerging" pass rusher while you still have leverage.

Worst case (non catastrophic injury) is that Dupree is terrible and by the 4th game of the season the position devolves into some awful platoon of Dupree/Chickillo/Adams. Okay - what many think is going to happen anyway. Pull the option and cut him.

Tell me again, how the Steelers lose? Remember the only way they are likely going to let him see a season at 9.5 million is if he puts up 50+tackles and 10+ sacks - that would be a bargain.

Ryan Shazier was going to be playing on a 5th year option in 2018 and he was looking like the most underpaid LB in football before he went down.

[steelreserve]

Worst case (non catastrophic injury) is that Dupree is terrible and by the 4th game of the season the position devolves into some awful platoon of Dupree/Chickillo/Adams. Okay - what many think is going to happen anyway. Pull the option and cut him.

Tell me again, how the Steelers lose? Remember the only way they are likely going to let him see a season at 9.5 million is if he puts up 50+tackles and 10+ sacks - that would be a bargain.

Again, the worst case isn't that he's bad and we back out of the option year. The worst case is the Jason Worilds scenario: He has another low-impact season like the last three, but we talk ourselves into keeping the option anyway because "omg this is finally gonna be his year" or "just one more chance" or "we're still not sure what we have" or "who else is on the market" or "what choice do we have" or "we need one more season to get a really good look at him" or some shit like that. In fact, I would rate that by far the most likely outcome if we use the option. For some reason, we won't let go of players like that if we took the first step. Better to just steer way clear.

Ryan Shazier was going to be playing on a 5th year option in 2018 and he was looking like the most underpaid LB in football before he went down.

No he wasn't. He was going to get a big contract extension well before the option ever came into play. Probably one that would've had a much lower cap hit in the first year, too.

But this is basically the entire point. The option is for players like Shazier, or Pouncey, or Heyward, who you know you're keeping but you still have to work out the actual deal. If you're not sure, that should pretty much make the decision for you not to do it.

[Mojouw]

Again, the worst case isn't that he's bad and we back out of the option year. The worst case is the Jason Worilds scenario: He has another low-impact season like the last three, but we talk ourselves into keeping the option anyway because "omg this is finally gonna be his year" or "just one more chance" or "we're still not sure what we have" or "who else is on the market" or "what choice do we have" or "we need one more season to get a really good look at him" or some shit like that. In fact, I would rate that by far the most likely outcome if we use the option. For some reason, we won't let go of players like that if we took the first step. Better to just steer way clear.




No he wasn't. He was going to get a big contract extension well before the option ever came into play. Probably one that would've had a much lower cap hit in the first year, too.

But this is basically the entire point. The option is for players like Shazier, or Pouncey, or Heyward, who you know you're keeping but you still have to work out the actual deal. If you're not sure, that should pretty much make the decision for you not to do it.

Dude, I do see your point. Honestly, I do. But the 5th year option is in the CB CBA to give teams leverage. Never ever walk away from leverage. Steelers pick up the option they control the entire conversation going forward. Now, they then do something dumb, well crap. That's when you fire a GM. Not cede leverage because you suspect your GM is an idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[pczach]

Dude, I do see your point. Honestly, I do. But the 5th year option is in the CB CBA to give teams leverage. Never ever walk away from leverage. Steelers pick up the option they control the entire conversation going forward. Now, they then do something dumb, well crap. That's when you fire a GM. Not cede leverage because you suspect your GM is an idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly.

You can't worry about the GM making a bad decision later. If you don't think the GM is capable of making that decision or doesn't know more about the player than you, he shouldn't be the GM in the first place.

Have the best player available to you at the time on the roster until a better option presents itself from a talent/cost perspective. If it doesn't work out.....walk away. This isn't that hard, and people are overthinking this.

[teegre]

Let’s see...

Costs the Steelers nothing.
Gives the Steelers 100% control of the situation.

SUMMATION:
No one has yet to convince me that this is a bad move.

[tube517]

Steelers pick up Dupree's 5th year option.

http://www.steelers.com/news/transac...5-6eef4ea1a621

[st33lersguy]

What did he do to earn it?

[Mojouw]

What did he do to earn it?

Players don't "earn" 5th year options. They have it imposed on them by the team. If players in years 1-4 "earn" anything it is the opportunity to sit down with the team and have their 5th year option bought out with an extension.

Broncos picked up Shane Ray's option for the same $$ and with some of the exact same questions (which player is real? The one who put together stretches of success or the oft-injured "meh"?) - this is exactly what the CBA is designed to do. Now, of course, Ryan Shazier's situation is an example of how this can all go south. Shazier has his option picked up instead of an extension so that the team could ensure that Shazier really was the player that he appeared to be when not injured. Then prior to getting catastrophically injured, Shazier played like a DPOY candidate. A total cap bargain for the team and making Shazier an almost certain extension candidate.

We can only hope that the exact same scenario (minus the injury) plays out with Dupree. In fact, it is entirely likely that he never plays on the tag because he either underperforms and gets cut or he overperforms and the Steelers sign him to a contract extension.

[Neversatisfied]

I dont think the Steelers had a choice. Despite the number of draft picks the Steelers have spent on LB over the past 6-8 drafts the Steelers still have trouble putting 4 guys out there worth owning a roster spot.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Paul Zeise: The Steelers were right to pick up fifth-year option to Bud Dupree

PAUL ZEISE
Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
APR 23, 2018

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/z...s/201804230102

[Shoes]

Anybody see Ed today?

[Rotorhead]

Hahahahahahahaha

[teegre]

Derp... Harrison...derp.

[Mojouw]

I dunno - the track record at LB is fairly decent:

Rk	Year	Rnd	Pick		Pos	DrAge	From	To	AP1	PB	St	CarAV	G	GS	Int	Sk	College/Univ
1	2017	1	30	T.J. Watt	OLB	22	2017	2017	0	0	1	7	15	15	1	7.0	Wisconsin	College Stats
2	2017	7	248	Keion Adams	OLB	22			0	0	0						West. Michigan	College Stats
3	2016	6	220	Travis Feeney	OLB	23			0	0	0						Washington	College Stats
4	2016	7	246	Tyler Matakevich	OLB	23	2016	2017	0	0	0	2	31	0			Temple	College Stats
5	2015	1	22	Bud Dupree	OLB	22	2015	2017	0	0	1	12	38	24		14.5	Kentucky	College Stats
6	2014	1	15	Ryan Shazier	LB	22	2014	2017	0	2	3	27	46	41	7	7.0	Ohio St.	College Stats
7	2014	6	192	Jordan Zumwalt	LB	22	2014	2014	0	0	0	0	0				UCLA	College Stats
8	2013	1	17	Jarvis Jones	LB	23	2013	2016	0	0	2	18	50	35	2	6.0	Georgia	College Stats
9	2013	6	206	Vince Williams	LB	23	2013	2017	0	0	2	19	79	33	1	10.5	Florida St.	College Stats
10	2012	3	86	Sean Spence	LB	22	2012	2017	0	0	1	12	53	23		6.0	Miami (FL)	College Stats
11	2011	5	162	Chris Carter	LB	22	2011	2017	0	0	0	6	75	4			Fresno St.	College Stats
12	2010	5	166	Stevenson Sylvester	LB	22	2010	2014	0	0	0	5	50	2			Utah	College Stats

That's everyone from 2009-2017. Some nothing guys in the 5th and 6tth round. Not going to hold that against any NFL team at any position. At that point you are expecting to be choosing between special teams and depth players.

Spence busted out because of injury. Totally off-set by the massive win that is Vince Willliams. Shazier is a tragic win. Jones is a bust. Dupree is a league average OLB with a bit of upside remaining. Watt is a seeming win.

I keep hearing how there are all these LB draft picks the Steelers "missed" on. It is one. One guy.

[steelreserve]

Let’s see...

Costs the Steelers nothing.
Gives the Steelers 100% control of the situation.

SUMMATION:
No one has yet to convince me that this is a bad move.

Get back to me next March, after he's had another shitty year but they convince themselves not to back out of the option because "this is finally gonna be the year he gets it" / "who else do we have" / "well maybe it's just injuries" / "this lets us try him for one more year without making a commitment even though we know he's garbage and will continue to be garbage" / "this gives us flexibility" (translation: we can kick the can down the road for another year for $10 million instead of admitting we fucked up and addressing it with another draft pick) / some other stupid reason that they talk themselves into just because we already had the option. It'll be like flushing $10 million down the toilet.

I can't think of any player who has demonstrated so clearly that he is average at best, and then suddenly gone on to become a top-5 performer and stayed that way. We basically know what we have and it's not worth the price of the option, which makes it foolish to even have out there. I would say his odds of suffering an injury that carries over into next season and keeps us on the hook for it are far higher than his odds of becoming worth $10 million, to say nothing of becoming worth substantially more than that.

[Mojouw]

Get back to me next March, after he's had another shitty year but they convince themselves not to back out of the option because "this is finally gonna be the year he gets it" / "who else do we have" / "well maybe it's just injuries" / "this lets us try him for one more year without making a commitment even though we know he's garbage and will continue to be garbage" / "this gives us flexibility" (translation: we can kick the can down the road for another year for $10 million instead of admitting we fucked up and addressing it with another draft pick) / some other stupid reason that they talk themselves into just because we already had the option. It'll be like flushing $10 million down the toilet.

I can't think of any player who has demonstrated so clearly that he is average at best, and then suddenly gone on to become a top-5 performer and stayed that way. We basically know what we have and it's not worth the price of the option, which makes it foolish to even have out there. I would say his odds of suffering an injury that carries over into next season and keeps us on the hook for it are far higher than his odds of becoming worth $10 million, to say nothing of becoming worth substantially more than that.

When have they picked up an option and regretted it? Heyward's production was not really earth shattering until year 4. No one regrets his option being picked up. Many questioned DeCastro being extended. That's kinda cute now.

For pass rushers, here is a recent list of "late bloomers":

Melvin Ingram
Nick Perry
Jerry Hughes (not as clear cut as the other two)
James Harrison was cut how many times? By his own admission he had no idea what he was doing early in his career.
I can't remember what Cam Wake was doing prior to his age 27 season, but it certainly wasn't sacking NFL QBs.
Brandon Graham was worse than Bud Dupree for most of his early career.
Bruce Irvin took a few years to put it all together as a starter.
Dante Fowler still isn't anything but a specialized pass rusher.

I mean none of this is a guarantee or even a sign that Dupree is anything more than what he was last time we saw him play. But everyone paints this as this ill-fated decision that leads to an inevitable path of the Steelers paying Dupree $9 million dollars to sit behind a draft pick or something.

I mean, I guess anything can happen, but c'mon. Where are all these expensive players the team just keeps running out there in spite of terrible on field performance? Sure they give younger guys a bit more run than we all might like (the entire point of the new CBA) and sometimes they seem to fall in love with a random vet. But I can't think of the last guy they paid big $$ to and kept around once performance didn't match up...

[teegre]

Get back to me next March, after he's had another shitty year but they convince themselves not to back out of the option because "this is finally gonna be the year he gets it" / "who else do we have" / "well maybe it's just injuries" / "this lets us try him for one more year without making a commitment even though we know he's garbage and will continue to be garbage" / "this gives us flexibility" (translation: we can kick the can down the road for another year for $10 million instead of admitting we fucked up and addressing it with another draft pick) / some other stupid reason that they talk themselves into just because we already had the option. It'll be like flushing $10 million down the toilet.

I can't think of any player who has demonstrated so clearly that he is average at best, and then suddenly gone on to become a top-5 performer and stayed that way. We basically know what we have and it's not worth the price of the option, which makes it foolish to even have out there. I would say his odds of suffering an injury that carries over into next season and keeps us on the hook for it are far higher than his odds of becoming worth $10 million, to say nothing of becoming worth substantially more than that.

Will power.

The Steelers have every right to cut him / not pay him that fifth-year. All it takes is will power.

Of course, the Steelers could do as you say (keep him for that fifth year). They could also sign him to a 5 year/ $50 million salary. They could do lots of things that are stupid, but using the fifth-year option does not guarantee that they absolutely will.

A few Steelers-related linebackers who suddenly got it in their fifth season:
-James Farrior
-James Harrison
-Mike Vrabel

[BlackAndGold]

[stillers4me]

Why are we digging up a 3 month old thread?????????????????????????????????????????

It's news...make anew friggin post next time! It's not rocket science.