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Thread: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    I expect Tomlin to be very aggressive when it comes to fixing the ILB position. If they can sign a safety via free agency I can see him trying to move up and grab someone like Smith if he was starting to fall. He values that position.
    I expect and hope that too. One important part of the FA discussion is do we want to pay less, get a vet that can start right away as an upgrade, but on the downside of his career and maybe only a year or 2 stop gap player? OR Do we want to spend to get a good younger player that still has room to grow in the ILB/safety role, and will at worst end up as a quality backup? There are valid reasons why both are the correct way to go, but we can't do both.

    I think for now, I like the thought of getting a younger, be here for 3+ years, type of FA at the safety role.(Ryan Clark) While at ILB, I think I want that solid vet that is going to immediately upgrade that position, but will hopefully be jumped over by a fresh rookie draft pick, and move to a quality backup role.(James Harrison)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    You and mojouw are not wrong, I never thought flacco was more than an average qb, and overrated when his supporting cast was carrying him the 1st part of his career. Flacco is one part of the problem, but I think his receivers are also part of the problem.
    I agree that the Ravens do need to upgrade their skill positions, and by a lot. I just don't think they get back to where they were with Flacco, moving forward. I would not be that surprised if they grab a QB in the 2nd round.

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Just to put another guy on the radar.

    Genard Avery 6'1" - 250lbs Listed as an ILB on most draft sheets, but plays more like a OLB. Late round guy, maybe UDFA. Reminds me of VW/Harrison.
    Career stats at Memphis
    45 games played. 230 tackles. 44.5 tackles for loss. 21.5 sacks. 3 forced fumbles. 2 INTs.

    Avery vs Western KY
    https://herosports.com/nfl-draft/hig...s-raiders-b6b6

    Avery vs UCF
    https://fullpresscoverage.com/2018/0...pect-lb-avery/

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    You and mojouw are not wrong, I never thought flacco was more than an average qb, and overrated when his supporting cast was carrying him the 1st part of his career. Flacco is one part of the problem, but I think his receivers are also part of the problem.
    Here's the the thing. Tyrod Taylor, Garapalo, Alex Smith, and Cousins all put up far better #s with less name brand weapons. Flacco is even more of a check down artist than Smith. Bottom line is that other than a brilliant playoff run that made people think he was an upper tier guy, he sorta is terrible.
    Until the Ravens realize Flacco is a detriment on the field and a disaster on the cap sheet, they are not going back to a SB. Yet every draft cycle we gotta hear about how all Flacco needs are weapons to unleash his amazing offensive juggernaut potential.

  4. #34

    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Josey Jewell, Iowa. 6'2" - 236lbs
    Career stats at Iowa:
    49 games played. 433 total tackles. 28 tackles for loss. 26 passes defensed. 3 forced fumbles. 2 fumbles recovered. 10 sacks.

    I cannot find a flaw in this guy's game.


    http://hawkeyesports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6934

    https://dearoldgold.com/2017/11/22/p...ey-jewell-nfl/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1-TwOZ1Uzg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zpgb-zak8w

    https://twitter.com/DBurnScout/statu...47907114782720
    I like Jewell a lot. if we could get Rasshan Evans in the first round...a safety like Kyzer White in the 2nd...and double dip at ILB with a pick like Jewell or Fred Warner in the 3rd round...I would be beside myself. I also like the tape on P.J. Hall, the NT out of Sam Houston State and wonder how he and Hargrave would do on the inside of a four man front.
    "I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play"

    -- Jack Lambert --

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Malik Jefferson, TX. 6'3" - 240lbs
    Career stats at Tx:
    34 games played. 231 total tackles. 26 tackles for loss. 5 passes defensed. 2 forced fumbles. 1 fumble recovered. 13 sacks.

    Maybe the hardest hitting LB in this draft. A run stuffing, get after the QB beast they call "The Predator"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oFi9Xn8Pdk

    https://www.burntorangenation.com/20...exas-longhorns

    http://texassports.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=7224

    This is game footage vs OK State. MJ had a very good game and you get to see him in on a lot of plays.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obR85cBvDK8
    I've seen a few mocks with him going in R3, is that accurate?
    "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself--and you are
    the easiest person to fool."

    --Richard Feynmann

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    I've seen a few mocks with him going in R3, is that accurate?
    I doubt he will fall that far, but stranger things have happened in the draft.

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    I've seen a few mocks with him going in R3, is that accurate?
    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    I doubt he will fall that far, but stranger things have happened in the draft.
    I've seen legitimate "big boards" with Jefferson as a R3/R4 prospect and Jewell falling behind that.

    There also seems to be a big variation in how the safeties are ranked right now as well. Logic and reason will likely start to prevail after the combine and all these guys can start on the "group-think" copy and paste responses and scouting reports!

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    I've seen a few mocks with him going in R3, is that accurate?
    He is the quintessential "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane."

    He will need a lot of coaching, because right now, he simply gets by on his superior physical skills. But, he often plays slower than his top speed, because he has a difficult time recognizing/diagnosing plays.


    If he never makes that mental leap, he will be what Bud Dupree currently is (a physical specimen with otherworldly potential).

    If he does indeed reach his full potential, he will be Ryan Shazier (a whirling dervish).

    SUMMATION:
    If a team thinks that they can coach him up, he'll go in the top 40. It only takes ONE team to fall in love with a player... or... a team with extra draft picks to "risk" on him (I'd bet that he goes at 35 to the Browns).

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    He is the quintessential "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane."

    He will need a lot of coaching, because right now, he simply gets by on his superior physical skills. But, he often plays slower than his top speed, because he has a difficult time recognizing/diagnosing plays.


    If he never makes that mental leap, he will be what Bud Dupree currently is (a physical specimen with otherworldly potential).

    If he does indeed reach his full potential, he will be Ryan Shazier (a spinning dervish).
    Isn't that the same knock that floats around about Edmunds? I realize that Edmunds is a bit younger and perhaps even more physically gifted, but I hear similar criticisms about slow to react and lack of instincts, etc.

    Here is the thing for me. It seems like these scouting reports are dancing around some stern questions that no one wants to put in print.

    1. Is the player really just inexperienced and under-coached? Then no problem, draft high and coach 'em up.
    2. Is the player dumb? Is all of this "lack of" stuff just code word for too darn dumb to read and react to keys in any kind of reasonable time frame. So don't draft because at the NFL level the athleticism that bought that player success to date will no longer be enough.
    3. Does the player just not like the violence of the position? Not everyone has a passion to go out and hurl their body into a car crash 3-4 dozen times per game. For some it is a path to a paycheck and I know there is a certain point where a "business decision" becomes a realistic choice. That's fine, doesn't mean the kid is a bad person or a broken misfit toy - it just means there is only so much they are going to progress. Draft with caution.
    4. Is it some other aspect of the game? Most common is that a player is being asked to do things in their college system that they won't have to do in the NFL. Freed up from whatever was holding them back (often having to make ALL OF THE PLAYS) they blossom. Draft away!
    5. Player has simply been playing at less than all out in college. Knew their goal was the NFL and knew that they had to be healthy enough to get there. Caution, but draft anyway?

    That's how I see it. I suspect that #2 is the most common reason. Fred Gibson might have been illiterate and he was certainly cut because he was simply too stupid to grasp the playbook. Martavis Bryant is walking a similar path. I have suspected Shamarko Thomas was also terminally dumb. One has to begin to wonder if Bud Dupree is going to join that club? What else explains his often "lost" wanderings in the run game and his stubborn refusal to alter any aspect of his pass rush "plan" (which I am starting a petition to call the "Ricky Bobby" - "Look, Mama, I'm going fast!") of just running around OTs.

    All in all it is a curious wonder to me why some physical freak undersized linebackers get the Ryan Shazier scouting report (it's cool. he'll be fine - just needs time to adjust) and others get what we are seeing some say about Edmunds and Jefferson (lacks instincts, slow to react, etc). Only thing I can really find is that Shazier is really smart and a leader and the other two.....are not smart?????

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Isn't that the same knock that floats around about Edmunds? I realize that Edmunds is a bit younger and perhaps even more physically gifted, but I hear similar criticisms about slow to react and lack of instincts, etc.

    Here is the thing for me. It seems like these scouting reports are dancing around some stern questions that no one wants to put in print.

    1. Is the player really just inexperienced and under-coached? Then no problem, draft high and coach 'em up.
    2. Is the player dumb? Is all of this "lack of" stuff just code word for too darn dumb to read and react to keys in any kind of reasonable time frame. So don't draft because at the NFL level the athleticism that bought that player success to date will no longer be enough.
    3. Does the player just not like the violence of the position? Not everyone has a passion to go out and hurl their body into a car crash 3-4 dozen times per game. For some it is a path to a paycheck and I know there is a certain point where a "business decision" becomes a realistic choice. That's fine, doesn't mean the kid is a bad person or a broken misfit toy - it just means there is only so much they are going to progress. Draft with caution.
    4. Is it some other aspect of the game? Most common is that a player is being asked to do things in their college system that they won't have to do in the NFL. Freed up from whatever was holding them back (often having to make ALL OF THE PLAYS) they blossom. Draft away!
    5. Player has simply been playing at less than all out in college. Knew their goal was the NFL and knew that they had to be healthy enough to get there. Caution, but draft anyway?

    That's how I see it. I suspect that #2 is the most common reason. Fred Gibson might have been illiterate and he was certainly cut because he was simply too stupid to grasp the playbook. Martavis Bryant is walking a similar path. I have suspected Shamarko Thomas was also terminally dumb. One has to begin to wonder if Bud Dupree is going to join that club? What else explains his often "lost" wanderings in the run game and his stubborn refusal to alter any aspect of his pass rush "plan" (which I am starting a petition to call the "Ricky Bobby" - "Look, Mama, I'm going fast!") of just running around OTs.

    All in all it is a curious wonder to me why some physical freak undersized linebackers get the Ryan Shazier scouting report (it's cool. he'll be fine - just needs time to adjust) and others get what we are seeing some say about Edmunds and Jefferson (lacks instincts, slow to react, etc). Only thing I can really find is that Shazier is really smart and a leader and the other two.....are not smart?????
    That is where superior coaching (and, to a degree, superb coaching) come into play.

    Is Jefferson not making the tackles, because he is not diagnosing the plays quick enough? If so, is it from:
    -lack of experience
    -not enough film watching
    -limited drive/desire
    -he is simply dumb

    The first to can be rectified with superb coaching. The third one is what you get with Albert Hayneswoeth (good only in contract seasons). The last one is an incurable problem.

    But, it’s difficult to figure which one it is.

    That is why the draft is so difficult to navigate, because top tier picks turn into busts... and, R6 players become HofFamers.

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Amazes me how Edmunds will still be 19 years old when drafted, so much upside.


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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    Amazes me how Edmunds will still be 19 years old when drafted, so much upside.
    It is certainly tantalizing and he will go in the first round if for no other reason than his age. But Amobi Okoye was similarly aged and talented and he never really worked out. To be completely fair that had a lot to do with injuries and medical stuff - but still.

    The draft is a cruel mistress!

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    That is where superior coaching (and, to a degree, superb coaching) come into play.

    Is Jefferson not making the tackles, because he is not diagnosing the plays quick enough? If so, is it from:
    -lack of experience
    -not enough film watching
    -limited drive/desire
    -he is simply dumb

    The first to can be rectified with superb coaching. The third one is what you get with Albert Hayneswoeth (good only in contract seasons). The last one is an incurable problem.

    But, it’s difficult to figure which one it is.

    That is why the draft is so difficult to navigate, because top tier picks turn into busts... and, R6 players become HofFamers.

    Joey Porter.
    "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself--and you are
    the easiest person to fool."

    --Richard Feynmann

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Joey Porter.
    D’OH!!!

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shoes View Post
    Joey Porter.
    Well, technically it would be Olsavsky...but he doesn't exactly inspire confidence either!!

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    The more I think about it, the more I think Darius Leonard needs to get serious consideration to being the answer at ILB.

    There is a chance that there is 1st round value in the 4th round with this guy.

    Also he measured in about the same as Edwards and Vand-e-whatever. Basically, these 3 guys are like drafting a velociraptor with the wingspan of a condor to run the middle of your defense.

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I think Darius Leonard needs to get serious consideration to being the answer at ILB.

    There is a chance that there is 1st round value in the 4th round with this guy.

    Also he measured in about the same as Edwards and Vand-e-whatever. Basically, these 3 guys are like drafting a velociraptor with the wingspan of a condor to run the middle of your defense.
    Yes yes yes to Darius Leonard.

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Yes yes yes to Darius Leonard.
    Which frees up round one and round 2.

    Then Leonard in the 3rd.

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    The more I think about it, the more I think Darius Leonard needs to get serious consideration to being the answer at ILB.

    There is a chance that there is 1st round value in the 4th round with this guy.

    Also he measured in about the same as Edwards and Vand-e-whatever. Basically, these 3 guys are like drafting a velociraptor with the wingspan of a condor to run the middle of your defense.
    Leonard was the star (IMO) of the Senior Bowl. He seemed to make every tackle.

    My only concern is that he was 180 when he entered college, and he’s about maxed out (235). He didn’t need to be bigger, but I worry about the Kendrell Bell effect: his body shutting down after putting on too much weight for his frame to handle.

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.



    "The real glory is being knocked to your knees and then coming back. That’s real glory."
    - Vince Lombardi




  22. #52
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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by stillers4me View Post
    Kind of, but not really. If he were there in the 7th, yes definitely. I think he will get selected in the mid rounds and it's too much risk there for me. If it weren't for media hype he would not have gotten an invite to the combine. It's not mean, it's business. The way the Steelers play LBs his reach just comes up short. I know it's a handicap and we're not supposed to mention that, but in a game of inches it's the difference in a blocked pass, ankle tackle, strip sack, INT, etc. I really wish him well but I don't think he's going to be a starter on this defense, and that's what we need to shoot for, IMO. Do you think he gets moved to SS for the NFL?

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Leonard was the star (IMO) of the Senior Bowl. He seemed to make every tackle.

    My only concern is that he was 180 when he entered college, and he’s about maxed out (235). He didn’t need to be bigger, but I worry about the Kendrell Bell effect: his body shutting down after putting on too much weight for his frame to handle.
    My hope is that he was just smaller 'cause of the lower level of college had a smaller strength and conditioning program -- but you are right his frame is a concern. Looks long and lean in recent videos.

    See how he runs at the combine?

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    Re: Inside Linebackers Draft Reference Thread.

    Did we already mention Leon Jacobs around here? I had watched him play for UW and didn't realize he tested so darn well. I think I was down on him because I didn't realize he had the speed for downfield coverage.

    Played edge along the line at UW, but I wonder if he could make a Timmons like move to the middle?

    Bigger and moves fairly well for his size, but testing indicates his burst kinda sucks -- https://www.mockdraftable.com/player...s?position=ATH

    I don't remember him bringing much as a pass rusher, but I do recall him always being around the ball for the Badgers....

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