Report: Le’Veon Bell Showed Up Late To Jaguars Game, Missed Nearly All Of Saturday’s Walkthrough

[Born2Steel]

The Browns have the cap space to give him $18 million/season.

And, they have a plethora of draft picks (1, 3, 33, 35).

IF...The Browns were to offer 33 AND 35 today, I would consider it. 3 picks between 28 and 35 should yield 3 immediate impact players, if the last 2 drafts are the measuring stick. However, what I think a lot on this thread are forgetting is that when it comes to the draft, past success does not guarantee future success. Example, 2013, and 2015 drafts. Nailed it in the 2014 draft though. Trying to measure what Bell has done since getting here to other RBs like Gurley and Hunt(seem to be the faves on here), is Bell continues to do it. Defenses plan to stop Bell, Bell still does it, Bell comes back from major injury, Bell still does it. I am not impressed by one year guys or even 2nd/3rd year guys. In '14, '16, and '17 Bell was responsible for 1900+ yards of offense each year. He only played 6 games in '15 and went for 700. Kareem Hunt didn't do that(just shy of 1800). In his 3 seasons, Gurley has achieved, 1300, 1200, and hit 2000 this season. Not even in the same conversation as Bell for consistency. All of these "Just replace Bell" posters need to come up with names. WHO? Who is going to replace Bell's 1900 yards per season for this offense? It just doesn't make any sense.

[teegre]

IF...The Browns were to offer 33 AND 35 today, I would consider it. 3 picks between 28 and 35 should yield 3 immediate impact players, if the last 2 drafts are the measuring stick. However, what I think a lot on this thread are forgetting is that when it comes to the draft, past success does not guarantee future success. Example, 2013, and 2015 drafts. Nailed it in the 2014 draft though. Trying to measure what Bell has done since getting here to other RBs like Gurley and Hunt(seem to be the faves on here), is Bell continues to do it. Defenses plan to stop Bell, Bell still does it, Bell comes back from major injury, Bell still does it. I am not impressed by one year guys or even 2nd/3rd year guys. In '14, '16, and '17 Bell was responsible for 1900+ yards of offense each year. He only played 6 games in '15 and went for 700. Kareem Hunt didn't do that(just shy of 1800). In his 3 seasons, Gurley has achieved, 1300, 1200, and hit 2000 this season. Not even in the same conversation as Bell for consistency. All of these "Just replace Bell" posters need to come up with names. WHO? Who is going to replace Bell's 1900 yards per season for this offense? It just doesn't make any sense.

I don’t think anyone thinks we will “replace” Bell.

I think it’s more of: use Bell to get more picks in order to fix the defense.

[AtlantaDan]

The Browns have the cap space to give him $18 million/season.

And, they have a plethora of draft picks (1, 3, 33, 35).

If it is all about being competitive for Ben’s remaining years, Steelers are not going to trade Bell to a team they play two times a year - same reason Belichick sent Garrapolo to the 49ers for less in return

[teegre]

If it is all about being competitive for Ben’s remaining years, Steelers are not going to trade Bell to a team they play two times a year - same reason Belichick sent Garrapolo to the 49ers for less in return

I thought about that, but the Browns have a) cap space and b) expendable picks.

[steelerdude15]

As long as he got his money Bell wouldn’t mind going to the Browns.

Nobody in their right mind would want to play for Cleveland.

[Craic]

I thought about that, but the Browns have a) cap space, b) expendable picks, and c) the inability to leverage talent in order to win a football game.

FIFY

[Born2Steel]

I don’t think anyone thinks we will “replace” Bell.

I think it’s more of: use Bell to get more picks in order to fix the defense.

I understand that point. But the posts on here have been along the lines of 'just get another diverse RB', 'draft another RB that does what Bell does', and the like. That just dumb, kneejerk reaction, and not realistic discussion. I mean, why not just say, 'We currently have 6 picks for this draft. All we need to do is use each of those picks on a position of need, and on players that will become HoFers at those positions. That's how simple it is. Just do that.'
We need our RB. Areas of luxury on this offense/team are Oline, WR, and Dline. Those are places we can actually afford to lose someone of real value and it not cripple the entire team.

[zulater]

You can't commit 14 million dollars of cap space to a player who is quite willing to torpedo the boat in order to get his way. Especially one with so many miles on the meter and one who has a history of poor judgement and a selfish attitude.

I'm going to laugh when he gets unfettered free agency and no one even approaches the contract he turned down from the Steelers last summer!

We got lots of talent offensively. They got a whole offseason to address the need. The offense will still be championship quality next season. Just as we were in 16 in the games that LeVeon was serving his suspension.

[Born2Steel]

You can't commit 14 million dollars of cap space to a player who is quite willing to torpedo the boat in order to get his way. Especially one with so many miles on the meter and one who has a history of poor judgement and a selfish attitude.

I'm going to laugh when he gets unfettered free agency and no one even approaches the contract he turned down from the Steelers last summer!

We got lots of talent offensively. They got a whole offseason to address the need. The offense will still be championship quality next season. Just as we were in 16 in the games that LeVeon was serving his suspension.

And...I'm fine with moving on from Bell if that's what has to happen to move this franchise forward. But it's not as easy as "just get another guy as good as him". Make no mistake, his absence WILL be felt everywhere on this team, should he leave. He has that kind of impact here. Even assholes can be great football players, and I don't think he's anywhere near being an asshole. Not yet.

[zulater]

And...I'm fine with moving on from Bell if that's what has to happen to move this franchise forward. But it's not as easy as "just get another guy as good as him". Make no mistake, his absence WILL be felt everywhere on this team, should he leave. He has that kind of impact here. Even assholes can be great football players, and I don't think he's anywhere near being an asshole. Not yet.

It's obviously a different offense without him. But that doesn't mean it can't be top tier. And don't minimize that his game is already is already showing signs of slipping. A 3.9 yards per carry is not great. His yards per catch were also an all time low. He had more first down carries for 2 or less yards than any back in the league. 2nd and 8 or worse is not a great down and distance situation for your qb. His stutter step approach is not great in the red zone. Perhaps that's part of the reason we struggle there to such a degree?

The thing he might be missed most for is his blitz pick ups and overall pass blocking. I think he's clearly the best in the league at that. But all in all he wasn't the back this year he was from 14-16.I'd say a 15-20% slippage. So is that going to get better? Is his approach and attitude due to his frustration with his contract status part of that? I honestly don't know? But what I think is it wont get better if you franchise him again. It will probably get worse. Maybe significantly so. And I can't see anyway he will come to terms on a long term contract. So do you bring back a likely disgruntled back who's going to eat up 14 million dollars of cap space? I just can't see it.

It wont be easy ( nor will it be impossible) but you need to come up with your plan to move forward without him. That's what offseasons are for.

[Born2Steel]

It's obviously a different offense without him. But that doesn't mean it can't be top tier. And don't minimize that his game is already is already showing signs of slipping. A 3.9 yards per carry is not great. His yards per catch were also an all time low. He had more first down carries for 2 or less yards than any back in the league. 2nd and 8 or worse is not a great down and distance situation for your qb. His stutter step approach is not great in the red zone. Perhaps that's part of the reason we struggle there to such a degree?

The thing he might be missed most for is his blitz pick ups and overall pass blocking. I think he's clearly the best in the league at that. But all in all he wasn't the back this year he was from 14-16.I'd say a 15-20% slippage. So is that going to get better? Is his approach and attitude due to his frustration with his contract status part of that? I honestly don't know? But what I think is it wont get better if you franchise him again. It will probably get worse. Maybe significantly so. And I can't see anyway he will come to terms on a long term contract. So do you bring back a likely disgruntled back who's going to eat up 14 million dollars of cap space? I just can't see it.

It wont be easy ( nor will it be impossible) but you need to come up with your plan to move forward without him. That's what offseasons are for.

Right now, the only choice is, franchise tag him, or let him walk away. So, he's going to get tagged again. A sign and trade deal could be done possibly. Hypothetical...IF a team offered a player for Bell in a 1 to 1 trade, who is he worth? Draft pick, what round? At this point, the value is just not there for a player of his production.

[zulater]

Right now, the only choice is, franchise tag him, or let him walk away. So, he's going to get tagged again. A sign and trade deal could be done possibly. Hypothetical...IF a team offered a player for Bell in a 1 to 1 trade, who is he worth? Draft pick, what round? At this point, the value is just not there for a player of his production.

In the end I think they're going to have to let him walk. I think the fact they fed Bouchette the story of him missing most of walkthrough ( which is closed to the press) and being late for the game ( not being there the prescribed 2 hours before) is an indication that the Steelers are trying to grease the skids a bit so it wont come as such a shock when they eventually release him. Also franchising him would entail carrying that entire 14 million on next years cap. That would put them in cap hell, and they have some real good players they need to address with extensions that will virtually be impossible to get done with that loadstone hanging from their necks.

[Born2Steel]

A player that consistently does what Bell does, IMO, equates to my trusty old pickup analogy. It's never going to be worth what it once was, but it's value still remains.

[zulater]

A player that consistently does what Bell does, IMO, equates to my trusty old pickup analogy. It's never going to be worth what it once was, but it's value still remains.

That would work better if you didn't have to factor in a 14 million dollar cap hit and level of commitment if he's forced to play ( or sit) with the franchise tag.

The contract they offered him last August will never be made again in my opinion, not even close. Plus you know he would only turn it down anyway. The next highest paid back in the league to Bell this season was Shady McCoy at 8.5 million.

So there's no way I can see the risk reward ratio favoring keeping Bell around. Put it this way. If you can't sign him long term before the draft. ( about a 100-1 odds against) then you leave him go and move on.

[Born2Steel]

From what I understand, he has to be willing to come have a seat at the table, first. Sign the tag, and then let's talk about a contract. If that's some subtlety or ploy, I don't get the endgame.

[86WARD]

Doesn’t matter if he signs for a game, a season, multiple seasons...if the coaching staff doesn’t do a better job, this team won’t go anywhere. Bell isn’t the most critical part of the offense, but he’s major cog. Towards the end of the season, he caught an abundant amount of dump passes and outlet passes where he wasn’t the primary guy. Probably part of the reason his average production was down. Losing Bell would leave a large hole. Losing Brown or Ben would leave large holes. Those three players hide a lot of the mess that has been the coaching staff on offense.

[AtlantaDan]

From what I understand, he has to be willing to come have a seat at the table, first. Sign the tag, and then let's talk about a contract. If that's some subtlety or ploy, I don't get the endgame.

Once he signs the tag he can get fined if he does not report for camp and OTAs - not the case if he does not sign, as was the case last summer

With his exclusive franchise tag tender still unsigned, Bell is under no obligation to be at camp and cannot be fined for his absence.

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/201...y-leveon-bell/

What incentive does he have to sign then negotiate rather than just negotiate until week one of regular season? Unless they spend a high draft choice on a RB I do not see the Steelers rolling with Conner and releasing Bell if he does not sign.

With regard to the cost of the tag, at least the relative value of running backs compared to other positions is relatively low. Which would you rather do if you ran a front office - tag Bell and pay $14.5 million or keep Bortles on the roster in Jax next season by paying his $19.1 fifth year option cost? Which player is more important to their respective offenses?

[DesertSteel]

IF...The Browns were to offer 33 AND 35 today, I would consider it. 3 picks between 28 and 35 should yield 3 immediate impact players, if the last 2 drafts are the measuring stick. However, what I think a lot on this thread are forgetting is that when it comes to the draft, past success does not guarantee future success. Example, 2013, and 2015 drafts. Nailed it in the 2014 draft though. Trying to measure what Bell has done since getting here to other RBs like Gurley and Hunt(seem to be the faves on here), is Bell continues to do it. Defenses plan to stop Bell, Bell still does it, Bell comes back from major injury, Bell still does it. I am not impressed by one year guys or even 2nd/3rd year guys. In '14, '16, and '17 Bell was responsible for 1900+ yards of offense each year. He only played 6 games in '15 and went for 700. Kareem Hunt didn't do that(just shy of 1800). In his 3 seasons, Gurley has achieved, 1300, 1200, and hit 2000 this season. Not even in the same conversation as Bell for consistency. All of these "Just replace Bell" posters need to come up with names. WHO? Who is going to replace Bell's 1900 yards per season for this offense? It just doesn't make any sense.

You're making an assumption that past performance is a guarantee of future results. He's had 5 years and over 1500 touches. I see a decline in his near future. He has 2, maybe 3 years left at a high level. Plus he is not a home run back, which I greatly dislike.

- - - Updated - - -

It's obviously a different offense without him. But that doesn't mean it can't be top tier. And don't minimize that his game is already is already showing signs of slipping. A 3.9 yards per carry is not great. His yards per catch were also an all time low. He had more first down carries for 2 or less yards than any back in the league. 2nd and 8 or worse is not a great down and distance situation for your qb. His stutter step approach is not great in the red zone. Perhaps that's part of the reason we struggle there to such a degree?

Thank you for pointing out the FACTS!

[Born2Steel]

You're making an assumption that past performance is a guarantee of future results. He's had 5 years and over 1500 touches. I see a decline in his near future. He has 2, maybe 3 years left at a high level. Plus he is not a home run back, which I greatly dislike.

- - - Updated - - -


Thank you for pointing out the FACTS!

They are not my assumptions. I compared Bell's actual stats vs the stats of RBs others on here have asserted as being better than Bell, or comparable. I showed the numbers do not back that up. Thinking Hunt or Gurley will continue to have seasons like 2017, is the assumption, Bell has a proven record. Those others do not.

[DesertSteel]

They are not my assumptions. I compared Bell's actual stats vs the stats of RBs others on here have asserted as being better than Bell, or comparable. I showed the numbers do not back that up. Thinking Hunt or Gurley will continue to have seasons like 2017, is the assumption, Bell has a proven record. Those others do not.

When you are talking about the future how can they not be assumptions??? Do you have a crystal ball?

[Born2Steel]

When you are talking about the future how can they not be assumptions??? Do you have a crystal ball?

You may have to actually go back and read. Find your own answers, I'm not here to get dragged into one of your pointless debates.

[DesertSteel]

You may have to actually go back and read. Find your own answers, I'm not here to get dragged into one of your pointless debates.

Regardless, the bottom line is that you don't pay a guy based on what he's done in the past. History has proven that Running Backs don't have a long shelf life. I already have my answer.

"Your pointless debates"? If my comments are pointless then there's no need to respond at all.

[AtlantaDan]

They are not my assumptions. I compared Bell's actual stats vs the stats of RBs others on here have asserted as being better than Bell, or comparable. I showed the numbers do not back that up. Thinking Hunt or Gurley will continue to have seasons like 2017, is the assumption, Bell has a proven record. Those others do not.

As the say in the investment prospectuses, past performance is no guarantee of future results, but it is not likely Bell's next three seasons will be as productive as his past three.

A big reason the RB position is not as highly valued is due to the shorter peak career years of RBs as opposed to WRs, as shown in this 2014 chart.


The red line represents all running backs who have played at least four NFL seasons since 2001, with a minimum average of 75 carries per season. Overall, we see their careers peak at age 27. Afterward, their rushing totals drop by 15 percent in one year, 25 percent in two and almost 40 by the time they are 30.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/p...f-after-age-27

Bell turns 26 next month (like many draft quality RBs he left Michigan State after his junior year when he was 21) and has 582 carries the past 2 seasons

With that above average workload and his career peak at best looming (based on this past year's stats in terms of average yards per carry and longest runs from scrimmage he may have already peaked), his demands for a long term contract simply are not cost effective for the Steelers given his probable productivity after the 2018 season. The viable options are tag him again or say goodbye.

[Born2Steel]

Regardless, the bottom line is that you don't pay a guy based on what he's done in the past. History has proven that Running Backs don't have a long shelf life. I already have my answer.

"Your pointless debates"? If you comments are pointless then there's no need to respond at all.

Exactly.

[BlackAndGold]

I see no one in free agency that is worth not tagging Bell.

DeMarcus Lawrence: he had a great year but he also had back injury, how long will that hold up? he is not going to come cheap. I'll pass
Morgan Burnett: He's a good safety but throwing money at a 29 year old safety may not be smart.
Lamarcus Joyner: you could talk me into him, but I think the Rams pay up.
Eric Red: He's playing linebacker now, but he'd fill a role of a dimebacker very nicely.
Tre Boston: Steelers did show interest in Boston last year, not sure they will now since he'll look for a bigger payday

I can see a lot of 1 year "prove it" deals for many free agents. One including Demario Davis from the Jets. He's 29 and played very well this year while being nothing more than a back up his entire career. I'd be interested in giving him a 1 year deal.

Tag Bell
Find potential gems in FA (Davis, John Brown?)

[Born2Steel]

As the say in the investment prospectuses, past performance is no guarantee of future results, but it is not likely Bell's next three seasons will be as productive as his past three.

A big reason the RB position is not as highly valued is due to the shorter peak career years of RBs as opposed to WRs, as shown in this 2014 chart.


The red line represents all running backs who have played at least four NFL seasons since 2001, with a minimum average of 75 carries per season. Overall, we see their careers peak at age 27. Afterward, their rushing totals drop by 15 percent in one year, 25 percent in two and almost 40 by the time they are 30.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/p...f-after-age-27

Bell turns 26 next month and has 582 carries the past 2 seasons

With that above average workload and his career peak at best looming (based on this past year's stats in terms of average yards per carry and longest runs from scrimmage he may have already peaked), his demands for a long term contract simply are not cost effective for the Steelers given his probable productivity after the 2018 season. The viable options are tag him again or say goodbye.

Again, the point was not Bell's next 3 seasons. It was what he has done in comparison to the other 2 RBs mentioned. To assert that either of those RBs(which was asserted) will be better than Bell next season is the assumption, not showing the stats.

[DesertSteel]

As the say in the investment prospectuses, past performance is no guarantee of future results, but it is not likely Bell's next three seasons will be as productive as his past three.

A big reason the RB position is not as highly valued is due to the shorter peak career years of RBs as opposed to WRs, as shown in this 2014 chart.


The red line represents all running backs who have played at least four NFL seasons since 2001, with a minimum average of 75 carries per season. Overall, we see their careers peak at age 27. Afterward, their rushing totals drop by 15 percent in one year, 25 percent in two and almost 40 by the time they are 30.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/p...f-after-age-27

Bell turns 26 next month (like many draft quality RBs he left Michigan State after his junior year when he was 21) and has 582 carries the past 2 seasons

With that above average workload and his career peak at best looming (based on this past year's stats in terms of average yards per carry and longest runs from scrimmage he may have already peaked), his demands for a long term contract simply are not cost effective for the Steelers given his probable productivity after the 2018 season. The viable options are tag him again or say goodbye.

As usual, you hit the nail right in the head. No way would I sign Bell to a long term based on age/workload at the terms HE WANTS. The problem with the tag is the baggage and drama that it will create. I think the team is talented enough to win without him and the detriment of the tag drama will just cause a hangover from this drama-filled year.

[AtlantaDan]

Again, the point was not Bell's next 3 seasons. It was what he has done in comparison to the other 2 RBs mentioned. To assert that either of those RBs(which was asserted) will be better than Bell next season is the assumption, not showing the stats.

Since Gurley and Hunt are not going to be on the free agent market in 2018 whether they will have a better or worse 2018 season than Bell is a point of interest for anyone assembling a fantasy team but irrelevant for Bell's contract negotiations.

I posted the chart to support the contention Bell is delusional if he thinks he is going to receive a multiyear contract from the Steelers for anything close to his demands - from an objective point of view the Steelers should lower their offer from last season since Bell now has one less year of max productivity to offer.

Given that Bell does not appear to be the sort to back down, IMO contract negotiations are going nowhere. AJR II, Colbert and Tomlin do not intend for the Steelers to be stuck with the consequences of a ludicrously high long term contract after Bell is done as a top shelf player (that mistake was made with Troy, who had a lot more goodwill banked than Bell does) while Colbert and Tomlin hope to still remain with the organization (AJRII has a bit more job security regardless of what happens to the Steelers competitiveness )

[Born2Steel]

Bell's demands and contract negotiations are a completely separate conversation than the one I'm having, and have been having. So you quoting me and posting the graph is a bit out of context.

[AtlantaDan]

Bell's demands and contract negotiations are a completely separate conversation than the one I'm having, and have been having. So you quoting me and posting the graph is a bit out of context.

Trying to measure what Bell has done since getting here to other RBs like Gurley and Hunt(seem to be the faves on here), is Bell continues to do it. Defenses plan to stop Bell, Bell still does it, Bell comes back from major injury, Bell still does it. I am not impressed by one year guys or even 2nd/3rd year guys. In '14, '16, and '17 Bell was responsible for 1900+ yards of offense each year. He only played 6 games in '15 and went for 700. Kareem Hunt didn't do that(just shy of 1800). In his 3 seasons, Gurley has achieved, 1300, 1200, and hit 2000 this season. Not even in the same conversation as Bell for consistency. All of these "Just replace Bell" posters need to come up with names. WHO? Who is going to replace Bell's 1900 yards per season for this offense? It just doesn't make any sense.

I was responding to your post that said "Bell just continues to do it" and appeared to argue any contention Bell should be replaced "just doesn't make any sense."

My points were just because he has done it does not mean he will continue to "do it" at the same level and that his continued presence on the team must take into account the fact that it just doesn't make any sense for the Steelers to sign him to a long term deal for the $$ he has demanded.

My apologies if you reagrded my post to take your observations out of context

So what would you do, if you were providing options to AJRII, Colbert & Tomlin, assuming Bell does not decrease his contract demands from last offseason, which the Steelers would not accept then and presumably are even less likely to accept now?