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Thread: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

  1. #91
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    On offense, this team has the best talent in the league player vs player. No way can you make an argument for any other team over this one on paper. Defensively, not so much, but they aren’t terrible. They’d be Top-12 or 13 probably without looking...just based on talent.

    I’m in the camp that if they fired all three of the coordinators and had a plan, I’m fine with that. I’ve never been a Haley-hater but after yesterday, he’s on my last nerve. If he left, I wouldn’t have a problem with it. I’d give Butler another year but after that, same result? Gone. Danny Smith would’ve been fired Monday. If you can’t execute an onside kick to at least have a shot at recovery, you need to go back to coaching high school.

    The Steelers are doing a lot of good things but it’s the little things that they aren’t doing...4th & 1...you sneak it with Ben who has an 18/19 success rate...you just do it. You can’t play football in fear of him getting hurt on a QBsneak. You can’t. The team refuses to put the best players on the field in a position to win. How long has this team struggled with kick returners because Tomlin refuses to use defensive players to return kicks? Little things. Tackling has been an issue...another little thing?

    Who do the little things fall on? I think they fall on the staff but ultimately Tomlin. I like Tomlin most of the time...sometimes I don’t get him. I understand the onside kick attempt...no problem with the call. At some point, he needs to be held accountable for the little things.

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  2. #92
    Well there you have it... Array title="NCSteeler has a reputation beyond repute"> NCSteeler's Avatar

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I agree. Some may point to Shazier's injury. While I can understand that to a certain degree, it doesn't explain all the issues. Then, when I think back over that game, I continually see the issue not being the CBs and Safeties. It's the short stuff underneath with no one around. So, unless everyone was missing their assignments again and again, it has to be a scheme issue.
    This is a team whose best plan at ilb was Spence off the street. Seriously not one practice squad guy in this league could do better than a three time washout. Again piss poor planning

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  3. #93
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Rotorhead View Post
    My pick would be Wade Philips, everywhere he goes as a DC that def is in the top 5 and effective. Hell, look at Denver, went from one of the best Def's in a long time to average after he left. He can change his gameplan mid game and adjusts to the players strengths.

    - - - Updated - - -

    My pick would be Wade Philips, everywhere he goes as a DC that def is in the top 5 and effective. Hell, look at Denver, went from one of the best Def's in a long time to average after he left. He can change his gameplan mid game and adjusts to the players strengths.
    Except for he's already got a job as the DC with the Rams. He's not going anywhere unless if someone wants to make him head coach and I don't think that's going to happen again.
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Maybe we return LeBeau as DC .

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Chuck Pagano maybe. I don't know, I think we need to clean out the LeBeau/Butler coaching tree, but there's not a lot of attractive options out there right now.

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue View Post
    Butler should be gone period for not teaching his players how to tackle.
    THIS... it's been a problem for the last five years or so. They miss so many tackles it's painful

  7. #97

    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelerette View Post
    Chuck Pagano maybe. I don't know, I think we need to clean out the LeBeau/Butler coaching tree, but there's not a lot of attractive options out there right now.
    Absolutely. In hindsight, the system that tree is built on is based on exploiting top level talent in at least two positions plus having good to very good CBs. When your team has just above average talent, even across the defensive starting roster, it fails. I'd prefer a more plug-n-play system. Despite what we all feel about Belicheat, that is one area that he has it right.


  8. #98
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Absolutely. In hindsight, the system that tree is built on is based on exploiting top level talent in at least two positions plus having good to very good CBs. When your team has just above average talent, even across the defensive starting roster, it fails. I'd prefer a more plug-n-play system. Despite what we all feel about Belicheat, that is one area that he has it right.
    Patriots defenses are rarely top shelf. Bur they usually make plays when they have to. Oh yeah that damn situational football again

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    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    This from the P-G this morning

    Steelers coach Mike Tomlin has told his defensive coaches he is not going to make any changes and intends to bring that portion of his staff back next season, per a team source.

    But as former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians discovered after the 2011 season, that could also change.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201801170159

    Haley trying to text and call Tomlin for similar assurances but receiving message that number is not in service after Tomlin blocked him.

  10. #100
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    This from the P-G this morning

    Steelers coach Mike Tomlin has told his defensive coaches he is not going to make any changes and intends to bring that portion of his staff back next season, per a team source.

    But as former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians discovered after the 2011 season, that could also change.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201801170159

    Haley trying to text and call Tomlin for similar assurances but receiving message that number is not in service after Tomlin blocked him.



  11. #101

    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    This from the P-G this morning

    Steelers coach Mike Tomlin has told his defensive coaches he is not going to make any changes and intends to bring that portion of his staff back next season, per a team source.

    But as former offensive coordinator Bruce Arians discovered after the 2011 season, that could also change.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201801170159


    Unbelievable. Hmm. Maybe there's hope in that he told his coaches that, but not the coordinator? Doubt it, but one can try.


  12. #102
    Senior Member Array title="BlackAndGold has a reputation beyond repute"> BlackAndGold's Avatar

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by pepsyman1 View Post
    THIS... it's been a problem for the last five years or so. They miss so many tackles it's painful
    The whole league sucks at tackling.

  13. #103
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    The whole league sucks at tackling.
    Yeah. This is not a “Steelers Problem”. There is a slew of stuff written about how he CBA, the practice priorities, and even what goes on at the NCAA level has created a sport wide lack of fundamentals.

    Look at the “tackle” at the end of the Saints Vikings game for an example

    It is what it is.

  14. #104
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Yeah. This is not a “Steelers Problem”. There is a slew of stuff written about how he CBA, the practice priorities, and even what goes on at the NCAA level has created a sport wide lack of fundamentals.

    Look at the “tackle” at the end of the Saints Vikings game for an example

    It is what it is.
    I'm glad we didn't lose the way the Saints did. I doubt I would be able to talk about it yet.

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Yeah, our loss was way worse. They blew the coverage on the last play, but we allowed 38 points to the Jags. At Home.

  16. #106

    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Yeah. This is not a “Steelers Problem”. There is a slew of stuff written about how he CBA, the practice priorities, and even what goes on at the NCAA level has created a sport wide lack of fundamentals.

    Look at the “tackle” at the end of the Saints Vikings game for an example

    It is what it is.
    it's not the CBA IMO (but that doesn't help). This downturn started in the 80s when ESPN showed big hits. Slowly, players realized they could make a national name for themselves blowing people up. That coincided with ending Plan B free-agency in the early 90s and suddenly, players could earn MASSIVE paychecks in free agency by name recognition. Along with that came building the brand, which just furthered the ESPNball big-hit frenzy. Then, along comes this little issue called CTE. Now, players want to go for the big hit, but they can no longer head hunt or grip and rip as it usually ends in contact with the head. So, they have to try and get the big hit on the body. And thus, the bad tackling we have today. The CBA doesn't help because now, with all this other stuff thrown in the mix, coaches need to take the time and teach basic tackling, but they just don't have it. I don't blame the CBA for the lack of fundamentals, mind you, but it does limit helping players get back to them.


  17. #107
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    it's not the CBA IMO (but that doesn't help). This downturn started in the 80s when ESPN showed big hits. Slowly, players realized they could make a national name for themselves blowing people up. That coincided with ending Plan B free-agency in the early 90s and suddenly, players could earn MASSIVE paychecks in free agency by name recognition. Along with that came building the brand, which just furthered the ESPNball big-hit frenzy. Then, along comes this little issue called CTE. Now, players want to go for the big hit, but they can no longer head hunt or grip and rip as it usually ends in contact with the head. So, they have to try and get the big hit on the body. And thus, the bad tackling we have today. The CBA doesn't help because now, with all this other stuff thrown in the mix, coaches need to take the time and teach basic tackling, but they just don't have it. I don't blame the CBA for the lack of fundamentals, mind you, but it does limit helping players get back to them.
    I'll buy that. Regardless of how it started and why it continues, this is not a problem limited or unique to the Steelers.

    Like everything else, when you make something into a commodity, which football is, the product suffers. Even "big time" high schools talk about how it is all game plan installation and system concepts review in practices and not a ton of work on basic drills and fundamentals.

    I'm sure it isn't like that everywhere, but it certainly is at enough places that guys are being fed in to the NFL that never really learned how to do basic football things. And almost certainly have not had the devoted practice time to install "muscle memory" on a variety of things. How many wide-outs enter the NFL each year with no idea how to run a route besides really fast in a straight line?

  18. #108
    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I don't blame the CBA for the lack of fundamentals, mind you, but it does limit helping players get back to them.
    The athletes are much better and the schemes on both sides of the ball are exponentially more complex today but IMO the game is not played as well in significant aspects

    This video shows greatness based on fundamentals


  19. #109
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    The athletes are much better and the schemes on both sides of the ball are exponentially more complex today but IMO the game is not played as well in significant aspects

    This video shows greatness based on fundamentals

    Nice memories, thanks for that!

  20. #110

    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    The athletes are much better and the schemes on both sides of the ball are exponentially more complex today but IMO the game is not played as well in significant aspects

    This video shows greatness based on fundamentals.
    Yep. And . . . low and behold, every single tackle he made in that video, even the sticks, would have been completely legal in today's NFL.


  21. #111
    1 at a time Array title="Count Steeler has a reputation beyond repute"> Count Steeler's Avatar

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    The athletes are much better and the schemes on both sides of the ball are exponentially more complex today but IMO the game is not played as well in significant aspects

    This video shows greatness based on fundamentals

    That brought a chill to my bones and a tear in my eye. The way football is supposed to be played. Why don't we hire him as the tackling coach. Bring him in the preseason and let him drill the defense, then bring him back once a week and remind the defense that we need sure tackles, not attempts to get on the highlight reels.

  22. #112

    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Steeler View Post
    That brought a chill to my bones and a tear in my eye. The way football is supposed to be played. Why don't we hire him as the tackling coach. Bring him in the preseason and let him drill the defense, then bring him back once a week and remind the defense that we need sure tackles, not attempts to get on the highlight reels.
    DING DING DING. We have a winner!

    (Except, of course that pesky little thing called the CBA that hampers the idea. A shame, because I think it would limit so many injuries if we did exactly what you said).


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