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Thread: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

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    Senior Member Array title="vader29 has a reputation beyond repute"> vader29's Avatar

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY


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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    The frustrating things about Haley play calls today...empty backfield so the top defense doesn't even have to respect the run, zero power game, pitched the ball on 4th and 1, and throw the ball into the strength of the defense on the other 4th and 1. If we do not re-sign Bell, this offense will not succeed next season.

  3. #33

    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    The frustrating things about Haley play calls today...empty backfield so the top defense doesn't even have to respect the run, zero power game, pitched the ball on 4th and 1, and throw the ball into the strength of the defense on the other 4th and 1. If we do not re-sign Bell, this offense will not succeed next season.
    Again, this thread isn't saying there were some frustrating things about Haley. But, dropping 42 points on the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL and perhaps, one of the best defenses in teh HISTORY of the NFL (they really are, statistically) takes all blame off Haley IMO.


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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    The offense is successful because of the high-end talented players, not Haley and his inability to call plays
    Eggactly.

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    DC,oc, and give Tomlin a course on time management.

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Again, this thread isn't saying there were some frustrating things about Haley. But, dropping 42 points on the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL and perhaps, one of the best defenses in teh HISTORY of the NFL (they really are, statistically) takes all blame off Haley IMO.
    For real. Does anyone watch other teams consistently? If you want to fire a coordinator from these playoffs it starts with the entire Tennessee staff. They had one drive and then ZERO answers on either side of the ball. If you want to see what I consider a coaching staff blowing a game, watch that one. Another great example is the Falcons. They had a horrible showing and could not figure out Foles or the Eagles defense.

    The Steelers got beat at the line of scrimmage more than anything else. If someone can point out other things to me, I’m wiling to listen. But my initial gut reaction is that the Steelers front 3 got handled and then there was ZERO playmaking at the LB level. I suspect Watt ran out of gas and the team has to seriously be seeing Dupree as another miss. VW is okay as long as he can Robin to Shazier’s Batman. But he isn’t able to wear the cowl on his own. Sean Davis and Mitchell are okay at best. No playmakers down the spine of the defense.

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Well the defense still isn't good enough, that's for sure. I don't know how you give up 45 points to what is by all accounts a low-octane offense in an important game like that. Completely embarrassing.

    We need more speed at linebacker, that's painfully obvious. Keep Williams and Watt, and you can get rid of all the rest for all I care. Maybe Fort will get it one day and you can keep as a project guy, but we have an obvious exploit and will never win anything as long as the personnel situation is like this. That killed us today as much as anything.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Butler should be gone period for not teaching his players how to tackle.

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    IMO there was the scheme to blame I mean can't stop the run can't get off the field on 3rd down no adjustments to what was working for the Jags. Getting off the field on 3rd and long has been a problem all year it seems so if I had to put the blame on something it would have to be Butler his scheme and the Defense just the way I'm looking at things.

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Sorry, but 42 points should be enough to win an NFL game. I see no justification for Haley being fired. Yes, I hated those sweeps as well, but the offense put up stupidly good numbers today.

    EDIT: No justification, but it won't bother me if he is gone as long as OC isn't the focus.
    Agreed.

    To me, the loss rests at the feet of this atrocious defense.
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    The only huge issue with a call I had with Haley today was the sweep on fourth down. He tried it two or three plays before, and I posted in the game day thread not to do that because you aren't going to beat the Jags going wide. Nonetheless, goofball did it on the 4th down play because he was watching a different game at the time than I was.

    There were some other questionable calls, but nothing that stood out as much as that one.

    Butler has been a buffoon for 4 years now. They both need to go, but Butler needs to be gone first.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Another thing I can't stand with Butler, is if the opponent has a 3rd and long that is an almost guaranteed 1st down for the opponent because, well, Butler.

  12. #42

    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by lipps83 View Post
    The only huge issue with a call I had with Haley today was the sweep on fourth down. He tried it two or three plays before, and I posted in the game day thread not to do that because you aren't going to beat the Jags going wide. Nonetheless, goofball did it on the 4th down play because he was watching a different game at the time than I was.

    There were some other questionable calls, but nothing that stood out as much as that one.

    Butler has been a buffoon for 4 years now. They both need to go, but Butler needs to be gone first.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Another thing I can't stand with Butler, is if the opponent has a 3rd and long that is an almost guaranteed 1st down for the opponent because . . .
    . . . Butler likes to slip into a soft zone and give up both seams and players coming out the backfield.


  13. #43
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    . . . Butler likes to slip into a soft zone and give up both seams and players coming out the backfield.
    Yep, that's killed us for years. It's exactly how the Jags were converting on 3rd down today.
    “I believe the game is designed to reward the ones who hit the hardest. If you can't take it, you shouldn't play!” - Jack Lambert

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    . . . Butler likes to slip into a soft zone and give up both seams and players coming out the backfield.
    I couldn't tell you how many times I posted about that in the GD thread. Bortles doesn't like to throw long, because he can't and he knows it. He is highly inaccurate beyond like, 8 yards. I know it. You know it. Dan Fouts knows it (and mentioned it during game). Michelle Pfeifer knows it. Kim Jong Un knows it. Abe Lincoln knows it and he has been dead for a long, long time.

    Everyone knows it except for Keith Butler.

    Screens out of the backfield were there for the Jags all game.

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Butler should have never got the job in the first place, he is a bum and only got the position cause of seniority. Like I mentioned earlier if he is fired I bet there is not even one team in the league that will hire him for DC! That even includes the Browns!

  16. #46

    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue View Post
    Butler should have never got the job in the first place, he is a bum and only got the position cause of seniority. Like I mentioned earlier if he is fired I bet there is not even one team in the league that will hire him for DC! That even includes the Browns!
    Never put anything past the Browns.






  17. #47
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Sean Davis and Mitchell are okay at best. No playmakers down the spine of the defense.
    Zero.

    YES we had the most sacks as a team this year.
    NO we don't have that ONE playmaker on defense that teams need to be aware of at all times. (Shazier,Polumalu,Harrison,Porter)

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Never put anything past the Browns.




    Lol no and sure they remember how Kizer tore up his D.

  19. #49

    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    So,

    Now that we've all slept on it, has anyone's opinion changed? Personally, I still think the DC should be shown the door. As for Haley, I'm not sold on him, but I don't hate him either. I'd be okay with letting him go if Fichtner is given the reigns. What I wouldn't be okay with is letting Haley go and then the front office and Tomlin have to put in the time looking for a new OC and DC. If they were to look for two coordinators, I'd prefer it be a DC and special teams.


  20. #50
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Yep Butler and Haley both still need to go.

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    Yep Butler and Haley both still need to go.
    This is also where I'm at...

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Haley does need to go, in my opinion. Ben hates him, and I believe Haley's tirades are a distraction for Ben during the games.

    Butler needs to be shown the door, as well.

  23. #53
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    I would say Butler before Haley also. The defense is completely lost out there. This is also on Tomlin. I don't think Tomlin's players will ever be disciplined to play consistent football. The one thing you can count on with Tomlin's players is they will have their choreographed dances down perfectly.
    Yep

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    I'm still on the side of keeping Haley. Maybe I'm not seeing it but I'm not sure why everyone thinks Ben and Todd hate each other. The only people I have heard that from is posters here. As far as Butler... See ya, immediately

    "Zeds dead baby, Zeds dead." - Butch

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    What is Kevin Greene up to these days?

    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

  26. #56
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Did anyone watch the Vikings game? Haley is fully to blame you spend two maybe three weeks planning and go three and out on the first few possession. You are shit. This game and the defense is completely different if we score 14 early points. Changes every thing. Point scoring is as much about when as it is how many . Haley sucks from the bottom to the top. Butler may suck too but Haley is a problem that needs to be taken care of

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    What is Kevin Greene up to these days?



    LB coach for the J-E-T-S



  28. #58
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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    I would be okay with letting either go, as long as the Steelers actually thought and carefully considered their replacements.

    For instance, the Seahawks fired Bevell and brought in Brian Schottenheimer to replace him. Yuck! That is like trading out your aging wood paneled station wagon for a station wagon without the wood panels.

    I am not a fan of firings for the sake of firings. You damn well better be able to identify someone who can come in and do the job and do the job well -- but with a fresh and innovative perspective.

    On offense, there is really no need to change much. Good to really good OL. Great WR group. One of the 3 best RBs in football. One of the 5 best QBs in the game. And they just hung a legit 35 (we can take the last "garbage time" TD off the board if it makes people happier) on the best defense in football in 2017. I know that many believe individual play calls and tendencies could be improved, but a major system revamp and install is likely totally unnecessary and counter-productive. What is a new coordinator going to do? Involve Bell less? Not utilize the otherworldly athletes at WR to go deep?

    On defense, I don't know. The "on paper" approach of Butler and company seems sound. But then there is a results issue. So good process and less than ideal results. Where does that leave us? Well, for me, it leaves me awaiting more information and breakdowns from better informed sources. What do I mean? I mean what I really do not understand is whether the scheme(s) and game plans were just totally f'ed up (coaching), if the execution of those schemes was flawed (players), if the coaching staff is asking the players to do things they are not capable of doing (coaches again), if the coaches and players are not preparing in the best way and are reading the wrong keys and tendencies in their opponents AND offering "tipping their own pitches" (coaches and players), or if it is some toxic combination of all of those factors.

    Here is an example (assuming this breakdown is correct as written): http://www.steelersdepot.com/2018/01...eelers-season/
    So we are left to wonder where to place the blame on this play:

    1. Haden seems super late and slow in turning and running. Is that because the play asks him to do something he can no longer do at NFL speed? Or was he a beat slow in executing his assignment as he was cheating towards the line of scrimmage all day?

    2. Burns seems to be rounding off his cuts and appears to somewhat stumble at the end. He stays "outside" and never responds to Cole's adjustment to the middle of the field. As a result he is not able to make any kind of play on the ball. Is this bad technique and execution on Burns' part? Was he expecting far more timely and close support from Haden - so he stayed "outside"?

    3. Is it (as Alex K seems to think) just a flawed scheme and approach to defending that type of play? If so, what is the "proper" manner of defending it? Is that something the Steelers have the players to execute effectively or is Butler forced to use a screwdriver when he needs a crowbar but doesn't have one?

    Honestly, these are questions that I know I can not answer and I suspect many outside of the Steelers facility can not answer. But, for me, that level of granular analysis would be how I would decide who stays and goes if I was running the franchise. I just hope that whatever else happens in the off-season that brutally honest self-assessment is part of it.

  29. #59
    Senior Member Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Born2Steel's Avatar

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Again, this thread isn't saying there were some frustrating things about Haley. But, dropping 42 points on the BEST DEFENSE IN THE NFL and perhaps, one of the best defenses in teh HISTORY of the NFL (they really are, statistically) takes all blame off Haley IMO.
    I agree the offense was not the problem. The play calling was suspect at times though. Who calls a pitch play on 4th and 1? We have one of the better power olines and RB in the NFL. You line up and run them over, even when they expect it, just do it. I am not calling for anyone to get fired, just frustrated that we couldn't get the offense going early enough to dictate the game. Instead the defense played poorly and let the Jags dictate what we did.

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    Senior Member Array title="Lady Steel has a reputation beyond repute"> Lady Steel's Avatar

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    Re: Priority should be replacing BUTLER not HALEY

    Quote Originally Posted by vasteeler View Post
    I'm still on the side of keeping Haley. Maybe I'm not seeing it but I'm not sure why everyone thinks Ben and Todd hate each other. The only people I have heard that from is posters here. As far as Butler... See ya, immediately
    Ben doesn't want Haley beside him during the game. He now has Fichtner by this side.

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