Fire Everyone.

[Mojouw]

Here's what I'd like to see.

• A shift more to man defense.
• Find a way to better disguise man v. zone when playing zone.
• Free up a LB rather than a safety to cover the TE when playing teams with big TEs.
• Scheming to fix QBs exposing seams in the zone game after game after game.
• Using a spy at least once in a while if we continue to play zone against QBs who are mobile.
• Find a way to cover the RB when he comes out as a receiver.
• Get a true NT or convert to four down lineman.
• Stop relying on great talent to win games and start scheming to win games with average talent. That way, great talent can take the game over if possible, but it is not necessary (this especially helps when your talent has a season-ending injury).

That's off the top of my head.

Almost all of that gets fixed when you don't have below league average players at ILB.

Like 80% of that list is because VW, Spence, Fort, and whoever else is just not able to play in space in the NFL.

How many times did this board talk about ILB depth and play in the past 10 months? They gambled that they could get through thin at the position. Due to a horrific injury, they had to scrape the bottom of the barrel and then beyond.

For weeks now teams have isolated Spence and exposed his lack of NFL caliber ability in both the run and the pass.

[Craic]

Almost all of that gets fixed when you don't have below league average players at ILB.

Like 80% of that list is because VW, Spence, Fort, and whoever else is just not able to play in space in the NFL.

How many times did this board talk about ILB depth and play in the past 10 months? They gambled that they could get through thin at the position. Due to a horrific injury, they had to scrape the bottom of the barrel and then beyond.

For weeks now teams have isolated Spence and exposed his lack of NFL caliber ability in both the run and the pass.

Except, these have been problems throughout Butler's tenure, and several of them were problems in Lebeau's tenure as well when we had superb ILBs. So no, I don't agree that just getting a better ILB fixes this. Not only due we need a better ILB, but we also need a better scheme to put him in the places he needs to be to make plays, as well as the other linebackers and OL and safeties and CBs.

[plenewken]

It's time for Lloyd Christmas Haley and Harry Dunne Butler to get fired. Step into my office you two, cause you're fuckin fired

You can add Porter and Lake to the list.

[st33lersguy]

You can add Porter and Lake to the list.

The entire defensive staff save for john Mitchell can get fired

[Hawkman]

45 points to Blake Bortles (Well 38 minus the fumble return).

Let that sink in. When you score 35 at home you should always win.

.........and that’s Tomlin’s fault?

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Except, these have been problems throughout Butler's tenure, and several of them were problems in Lebeau's tenure as well when we had superb ILBs. So no, I don't agree that just getting a better ILB fixes this. Not only due we need a better ILB, but we also need a better scheme to put him in the places he needs to be to make plays, as well as the other linebackers and OL and safeties and CBs.

WHO?

[Moose]

The entire defensive staff save for john Mitchell can get fired

Agree 100% It's long overdue, and it's time for Rooney to step up like his old man would and shake up some useless crap ! Defense is laughing stock anymo

[Mojouw]

The entire defensive staff save for john Mitchell can get fired

Because of the amazing showing by the DL in their biggest test of the year? The front 3 had exactly 5 tackles. 5 in 61 Jaguars offensive snaps with 30 being runs by the back and 5 being runs by the QB. The DL also generated no sacks, hits, hurries, or negative plays. Not once was a Jags RB touched behind the line of scrimmage.

Why in the hell would the DL position coach get a pass on that performance? That being said I like Mitchell and think that he does a hell of job with the DL group.

But your leading run stoppers yesterday were Joe Haden, Sean Davis, Mike Mitchell, and Vince Williams. And everyone wonders why the Jags ran rampant? The DL and ILB got their asses kicked. And it was left to the DBs to clean up the mess.

[Shoes]

Tuitt seems to have vanished in the last few games.

[zulater]

The entire defensive coaching staff, including John Mitchell ( who figures to retire) needs to be gotten rid of. A new direction is needed. One thing I will say though is that Colbert and Tomlin failed Butler in as much as you knew going into the season that your ILB depth was paper thin with Timmons flying the coop. Shazier has had a history of missing games ( though nothing like what happened was foreseeable) How can you not either sign a competent veteran free agent or use a premium choice on this position? But as we know neither was done and we're left to grab Sean Spence off the scrap heap. Not a good back up plan at all!

Haley needs gone too.

[ShoeHorn]

Tuitt seems to have vanished in the last few games.

I have a sneaking suspicion he has been playing dinged up all year, much more so than we were ever told

[Shoes]

[QUOTE=zulater;632077]The entire defensive coaching staff, including John Mitchell ( who figures to retire) needs to be gotten rid of. A new direction is needed. One thing I will say though is that Colbert and Tomlin failed Butler in as much as you knew going into the season that your ILB depth was paper thin with Timmons flying the coop. Shazier has had a history of missing games ( though nothing like what happened was foreseeable) How can you not either sign a competent veteran free agent or use a premium choice on this position? But as we know neither was done and we're left to grab Sean Spence off the scrap heap. Not a good back up plan at all!

Haley needs gone too.[/QUOTE]


That has been a head scratcher to me also. It seems to be the mentality of the D coaching staff. They have done the same thing with play calling over the years.

[AtlantaDan]

I have a sneaking suspicion he has been playing dinged up all year, much more so than we were ever told

The elbow injury in practice last week presumably did not help (it also appeared Hargrave played less than usual yesterday, presumably due to his back issues)

Although the biceps tear in week one was not season ending any word on whether Tuitt will now get off season surgery?

[tube517]

The elbow injury in practice last week presumably did not help (it also appeared Hargrave played less than usual yesterday, presumably due to his back issues)

Although the biceps tear in week one was not season ending any word on whether Tuitt will now get off season surgery?

I didn't see Hargrave past the 1st quarter. I saw Alaalu and LT Walton come in one series and that was the last I saw Hargrave

[Mojouw]

[QUOTE=Shoes;632086]

The entire defensive coaching staff, including John Mitchell ( who figures to retire) needs to be gotten rid of. A new direction is needed. One thing I will say though is that Colbert and Tomlin failed Butler in as much as you knew going into the season that your ILB depth was paper thin with Timmons flying the coop. Shazier has had a history of missing games ( though nothing like what happened was foreseeable) How can you not either sign a competent veteran free agent or use a premium choice on this position? But as we know neither was done and we're left to grab Sean Spence off the scrap heap. Not a good back up plan at all!

Haley needs gone too.[/QUOTE]


That has been a head scratcher to me also. It seems to be the mentality of the D coaching staff. They have done the same thing with play calling over the years.

I am not sure what they could have done about the ILB depth issues. They made their big play to "Solve" the problem when they went hard after Hightower. I mean that was a big-time move to address the issue.

For me the biggest source of frustration with this coaching staff is the seeming (and again I am wading out into waters that I do not know a thing about) refusal to attempt "outside the box" solutions to recurring problems. I know that Wilcox got in the doghouse over the course of the season and he never really worked out so to speak. But since Ryan Shazier went down, teams have simply been isolating on the Steelers less than mobile ILB and just going at them. We saw the team fail to remedy this using VW, Spence, Moats, Fort, and even Chickillo a bit. So WHY IN THE HELL DONT YOU TRY WILCOX THERE?

Sure he is really light of a LB, but his strengths as a DB are running downhill and hitting things. So at least try him out in some select packages. Like could he really be that much worse? They just seem to "slot" guys into roles and then "next man up" no matter what the results end up being. At some point you have to try the crazy and maybe dumb idea...

[NCSteeler]

One of the armchair coordinators needs to explain to me what “scheme” things they would fix. Like with specifics and examples. I am no real fan of Butler’s and would have no strong feelings if he stays or if he goes.

The defense was precisely designed to funnel all playmaking through Ryan Shazier. Just like it used to be with Troy Polamalu. When you design a defense to highlight one player and you lose that player - you’re screwed plain and simple. Just like when Tom Moore used to say there was no point in practicing with the second string QB because without Peyton Manning there was no PLan B.

Sean Spence, Sean Davis, and Mitchell are just not playmakers in the middle of the field. They are complementary players at best. Guys you hope simply do their job so someone else can make plays. I have asked for 2 seasons now, who are the playmakers on this defense? There are many candidates but there was one - Ryan Shazier. Without him, no one was able to step up and wear the Superman cape.

Scheme does not get Sean Spence off blocks. He can’t shed blocks. No one in black and gold was able to beat their man and get pressure on Bortles today. Multiple times the man assigned to seal the edge lost contain and got blown off their spot. Scheme or execution? I have no idea, but I do know that I saw the Steelers lose the battle at the line of scrimmage more often than not today. Not sure what complex schematic issues there are in an ass whupping.

Again, not really waving the flag for Butler, but who are you going to bring in? Pettine just got hired. Capers is worse. Anyone know of any really up and coming 3-4 guys?

I for one can't figure out why there was no plan b beyond picking Spence out of the garbage can. Wtf really that's the best you can do?

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[NCSteeler]

[QUOTE=Mojouw;632129]

I am not sure what they could have done about the ILB depth issues. They made their big play to "Solve" the problem when they went hard after Hightower. I mean that was a big-time move to address the issue.

For me the biggest source of frustration with this coaching staff is the seeming (and again I am wading out into waters that I do not know a thing about) refusal to attempt "outside the box" solutions to recurring problems. I know that Wilcox got in the doghouse over the course of the season and he never really worked out so to speak. But since Ryan Shazier went down, teams have simply been isolating on the Steelers less than mobile ILB and just going at them. We saw the team fail to remedy this using VW, Spence, Moats, Fort, and even Chickillo a bit. So WHY IN THE HELL DONT YOU TRY WILCOX THERE?

Sure he is really light of a LB, but his strengths as a DB are running downhill and hitting things. So at least try him out in some select packages. Like could he really be that much worse? They just seem to "slot" guys into roles and then "next man up" no matter what the results end up being. At some point you have to try the crazy and maybe dumb idea...

Sadly enough creativity of this coaching staff is at a Cowhereusq high

Sent from my XT1575 using Tapatalk

[Steelerette]

It's convenient to point to Shazier's injury, but maybe, just maybe, predicating your entire defense around a freak athlete's irreplaceable abilities is kind of a bad idea.

[lipps83]

It's convenient to point to Shazier's injury, but maybe, just maybe, predicating your entire defense around a freak athlete's irreplaceable abilities is kind of a bad idea.

Exactly, if your defense is dependent on one person to be successful, it isn't a very good defense. For example see Lebeau/Polamalu when Troy just didn't have it anymore.

And hey, who did Butler learn from? Who was that guy again....the name escapes me.

[Mojouw]

Yeah. I hate acquiring generational HOF talents and then unleashing them. Hella dumb.


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[st33lersguy]

Keeping the defensive coaching staff is a mistake. Art needs to step in and change shit, otherwise which value over 30 will represent the number of points the Steelers defense surrenders in their playoff loss in 2018?

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It's convenient to point to Shazier's injury, but maybe, just maybe, predicating your entire defense around a freak athlete's irreplaceable abilities is kind of a bad idea.

Particularly one as injury prone as Shazier.

Fact of the matter is a team needs depth to win a Super Bowl, it can't rely on high-end to bail the entire team out every week. Injuries happen, and you need depth to be able to keep it going when a star gets injured

[BnG_Hevn]

One of the armchair coordinators needs to explain to me what “scheme” things they would fix. Like with specifics and examples. I am no real fan of Butler’s and would have no strong feelings if he stays or if he goes.

The defense was precisely designed to funnel all playmaking through Ryan Shazier. Just like it used to be with Troy Polamalu. When you design a defense to highlight one player and you lose that player - you’re screwed plain and simple. Just like when Tom Moore used to say there was no point in practicing with the second string QB because without Peyton Manning there was no PLan B.

Sean Spence, Sean Davis, and Mitchell are just not playmakers in the middle of the field. They are complementary players at best. Guys you hope simply do their job so someone else can make plays. I have asked for 2 seasons now, who are the playmakers on this defense? There are many candidates but there was one - Ryan Shazier. Without him, no one was able to step up and wear the Superman cape.

Scheme does not get Sean Spence off blocks. He can’t shed blocks. No one in black and gold was able to beat their man and get pressure on Bortles today. Multiple times the man assigned to seal the edge lost contain and got blown off their spot. Scheme or execution? I have no idea, but I do know that I saw the Steelers lose the battle at the line of scrimmage more often than not today. Not sure what complex schematic issues there are in an ass whupping.

Again, not really waving the flag for Butler, but who are you going to bring in? Pettine just got hired. Capers is worse. Anyone know of any really up and coming 3-4 guys?

So from that, you agree with funneling through one player, if that is the case? If one player going down turns a SB caliber team into a team that gets wonked by Bortles led Jaguars, something is wrong.

[Born2Steel]

On the 'Wilcox' front, I have to think his issue is that he's another helmet first hitter. He actually knocked himself out cold week1 vs the Browns. He came back and played so I guess he got over that, but maybe never changed his technique? Just a guess, and since we lost shaz to the same tackling style, I can see why they held him back. Now, had they held Shaz back would it have changed anything? Maybe, maybe not, so let's not even open that debate.

At ILB, there were more than a few on here that were begging for some help at ILB before the season started. They did bring in Hightower and made an offer, and I think they may have talked with Zach Brown's agent, but there was a serious effort to do that in any case. We already know that will be a priority position this offseason. Just have to wait a little longer for it.

As for our safety play, inconsistent at best, and terrible for the most part. I would absolutely LOVE to see 2 new ILBs and 2 new Safeties on this defense come TC time. Of course that would mean everything else remains as is and status quo. Mitchell and Davis do not play well together. They don't even look like they play on the same team most of the time. I honestly have no idea who is to blame for the confusion back there. I'm almost tempted to offer Sutton as a Joker style CB/Safety/ILB just so he can call the defensive plays and alignments. It is that bad that I would hand it to a rookie, at least Sutton has been successful in that role in college.

The Dline played GREAT all season. I cannot put a finger on any one thing that happened against the Jags, but they got handled. Simply put, once our Dline was shut down, the rest was easy for the Jags offense. Did they run out of gas? Were there just too many injuries to overcome? Were the Jags Olinemen just that much better that day? Maybe a little of each? All I do know is this is still the strength of this defense. This Dline needs to stay together and continue to improve together. I am extremely proud of this group this season. Well done.

What exactly is the role of the Steeler OLB nowadays? Can anyone put a definition on the role of that position? No wonder it takes so long to know if a player can play there or not. Serious question, do we have a true pass rusher on this team at the OLB position? We have been a defense that eats up blocks with our Dline to make one on one matchups with LBs, so they can get to the QB and at least move him off his spot. I'm not saying the role doesn't change over the years, but don't we still need to have someone with that capability on this roster? I honestly do not know if we need to get better at this position or not, because I simply cannot define it anymore.

The CB group I save for last. I am pleased by this group this season. Burns is still learning, but improving, and that's what is important. Sutton has more potential than Burns, IMO. Hilton has been the icing on the cake for this group, and Haden/Gay are the vets that can really mesh this unit together. The move from playing a zone/tackle the catch scheme, to a man-zone hybrid scheme, seems to be working. We give up more 'big plays', as man defense does, but it allows for skilled CBs to better use their individual talents, which should create more passes defensed and turnovers. And I think it will in time. There's that word again, "TIME". A little patience with this group and I believe they can be special in "TIME".

[hawaiiansteeler]

On the 'Wilcox' front, I have to think his issue is that he's another helmet first hitter. He actually knocked himself out cold week1 vs the Browns. He came back and played so I guess he got over that, but maybe never changed his technique? Just a guess, and since we lost shaz to the same tackling style, I can see why they held him back. Now, had they held Shaz back would it have changed anything? Maybe, maybe not, so let's not even open that debate.

At ILB, there were more than a few on here that were begging for some help at ILB before the season started. They did bring in Hightower and made an offer, and I think they may have talked with Zach Brown's agent, but there was a serious effort to do that in any case. We already know that will be a priority position this offseason. Just have to wait a little longer for it.

As for our safety play, inconsistent at best, and terrible for the most part. I would absolutely LOVE to see 2 new ILBs and 2 new Safeties on this defense come TC time. Of course that would mean everything else remains as is and status quo. Mitchell and Davis do not play well together. They don't even look like they play on the same team most of the time. I honestly have no idea who is to blame for the confusion back there. I'm almost tempted to offer Sutton as a Joker style CB/Safety/ILB just so he can call the defensive plays and alignments. It is that bad that I would hand it to a rookie, at least Sutton has been successful in that role in college.

The Dline played GREAT all season. I cannot put a finger on any one thing that happened against the Jags, but they got handled. Simply put, once our Dline was shut down, the rest was easy for the Jags offense. Did they run out of gas? Were there just too many injuries to overcome? Were the Jags Olinemen just that much better that day? Maybe a little of each? All I do know is this is still the strength of this defense. This Dline needs to stay together and continue to improve together. I am extremely proud of this group this season. Well done.

What exactly is the role of the Steeler OLB nowadays? Can anyone put a definition on the role of that position? No wonder it takes so long to know if a player can play there or not. Serious question, do we have a true pass rusher on this team at the OLB position? We have been a defense that eats up blocks with our Dline to make one on one matchups with LBs, so they can get to the QB and at least move him off his spot. I'm not saying the role doesn't change over the years, but don't we still need to have someone with that capability on this roster? I honestly do not know if we need to get better at this position or not, because I simply cannot define it anymore.

The CB group I save for last. I am pleased by this group this season. Burns is still learning, but improving, and that's what is important. Sutton has more potential than Burns, IMO. Hilton has been the icing on the cake for this group, and Haden/Gay are the vets that can really mesh this unit together. The move from playing a zone/tackle the catch scheme, to a man-zone hybrid scheme, seems to be working. We give up more 'big plays', as man defense does, but it allows for skilled CBs to better use their individual talents, which should create more passes defensed and turnovers. And I think it will in time. There's that word again, "TIME". A little patience with this group and I believe they can be special in "TIME".

$$$$

[Rotorhead]

Well, we could move Gay to S and pick up one of the many safeties in FA. I would love a solid FA ILB, but I don’t see that happening.

[Mojouw]

Gay would be one of the smallest safeties in the league. Not sure if that is a real problem or not - but it may prevent the defensive staff from being really high priority on such a move.

[Rotorhead]

Wrong thread