Patriots about to have some media annoyance. RIFT between Brady, Kraft and Belichick?

[tube517]

[fansince'76]

Once upon a time

[BostonBlackie]

^^^ impermanence

[steelreserve]

Brady is the GOAT. It’s almost a closed discussion really. I’ll listen to Montana and Otto Graham or Johnny U. But some of the stuff floating here is downright silly.

They had a tall guy with accuracy. Drew Bledsoe. Brady is light years better than that.

Dude. Here's the story. Are there 20 or 30 guys on the NFL's all-time "good" list who you could plug into the Patriots circa 2000 and expect to win multiple championships? Absolutely. I don't know how much Bledsoe playing what, two games in that system before almost being killed goes to prove - but the fact that they could swap in someone like Matt Cassel for a full season, and only fall off by a game or so, says a hell of a lot more to me. That guy's probably not even on the all-time top 250 list.

Fact is Brady will probably continue to get the credit and there won't be any way of telling whether it was him or "the system" because Belichick won't stick around too long after that. Pretty sure their deal with the devil ends at the same time. He had such a boost from the system he plays in and other ... *ahem* ... advantages he had. He's a lucky son of a bitch, I'll grant him that, but that is not the same thing as "best of all time and the discussion is closed."

And you know what, the memorable moments in a player's career say a lot about their status as an all-time great. Joe Montana had The Catch and a 90-yard drive in a minute and a half to win the Super Bowl. Bradshaw had the Immaculate Reception and the Cowboys Lynn Swann catch and bunch of other cool shit. Hell, even Ben has the TD to Holmes. Brady has the Tuck Rule, a couple of cheating scandals, and some crappy 30-yard dives for Adam Vinateiri field goals. Even his signature moments are lame. The great Steelers teams have multiple rules named after them because they regularly beat the dogshit out of their opponents. Brady has a rule named after him for all the whining about him being hit too hard. He plays the position like a sniveling shit. A guy like that cannot be considered the greatest of all time at anything, even if he won eight consecutive Super Bowls legitimately, which mind you, he didn't.

[BlackAndGold]

Dude. Here's the story. Are there 20 or 30 guys on the NFL's all-time "good" list who you could plug into the Patriots circa 2000 and expect to win multiple championships? Absolutely. I don't know how much Bledsoe playing what, two games in that system before almost being killed goes to prove - but the fact that they could swap in someone like Matt Cassel for a full season, and only fall off by a game or so, says a hell of a lot more to me. That guy's probably not even on the all-time top 250 list.

Fact is Brady will probably continue to get the credit and there won't be any way of telling whether it was him or "the system" because Belichick won't stick around too long after that. Pretty sure their deal with the devil ends at the same time. He had such a boost from the system he plays in and other ... *ahem* ... advantages he had. He's a lucky son of a bitch, I'll grant him that, but that is not the same thing as "best of all time and the discussion is closed."

And you know what, the memorable moments in a player's career say a lot about their status as an all-time great. Joe Montana had The Catch and a 90-yard drive in a minute and a half to win the Super Bowl. Bradshaw had the Immaculate Reception and the Cowboys Lynn Swann catch and bunch of other cool shit. Hell, even Ben has the TD to Holmes. Brady has the Tuck Rule, a couple of cheating scandals, and some crappy 30-yard dives for Adam Vinateiri field goals. Even his signature moments are lame. The great Steelers teams have multiple rules named after them because they regularly beat the dogshit out of their opponents. Brady has a rule named after him for all the whining about him being hit too hard. He plays the position like a sniveling shit. A guy like that cannot be considered the greatest of all time at anything, even if he won eight consecutive Super Bowls legitimately, which mind you, he didn't.

What about both of his Super Bowl comebacks against the Seahawks and Atlanta?

You can hate on the guy, but give credit when credit is due.

[fansince'76]

Dude. Here's the story. Are there 20 or 30 guys on the NFL's all-time "good" list who you could plug into the Patriots circa 2000 and expect to win multiple championships? Absolutely. I don't know how much Bledsoe playing what, two games in that system before almost being killed goes to prove - but the fact that they could swap in someone like Matt Cassel for a full season, and only fall off by a game or so, says a hell of a lot more to me. That guy's probably not even on the all-time top 250 list.

Fact is Brady will probably continue to get the credit and there won't be any way of telling whether it was him or "the system" because Belichick won't stick around too long after that. Pretty sure their deal with the devil ends at the same time. He had such a boost from the system he plays in and other ... *ahem* ... advantages he had. He's a lucky son of a bitch, I'll grant him that, but that is not the same thing as "best of all time and the discussion is closed."

And you know what, the memorable moments in a player's career say a lot about their status as an all-time great. Joe Montana had The Catch and a 90-yard drive in a minute and a half to win the Super Bowl. Bradshaw had the Immaculate Reception and the Cowboys Lynn Swann catch and bunch of other cool shit. Hell, even Ben has the TD to Holmes. Brady has the Tuck Rule, a couple of cheating scandals, and some crappy 30-yard dives for Adam Vinateiri field goals. Even his signature moments are lame. The great Steelers teams have multiple rules named after them because they regularly beat the dogshit out of their opponents. Brady has a rule named after him for all the whining about him being hit too hard. He plays the position like a sniveling shit. A guy like that cannot be considered the greatest of all time at anything, even if he won eight consecutive Super Bowls legitimately, which mind you, he didn't.

If I were a GM starting up a team and I could have any QB from any era to start my team with, I'm still picking Dan Marino. He's still the best pure passer I've ever seen.

Wasn't his fault that the AFC was perennially the weak sister of the NFC during pretty much his entire career or the fact that Shula was unable to put a good enough team around him to compete with them (or even the better teams in the AFC in a number of cases, for that matter). At the end of the day, football is still a team sport and IMO, it isn't all about rings when it comes to judging QBs on an individual basis.

Speaking of which, and I'll go to my grave believing this, substitute Marino for O'Donnell in SB XXX and the Steelers win that game going away. Marino would have made Thigpen a multi-year Pro Bowler just like he did with Clayton and Duper.

I also think Marino would consistently put up 7,000+ passing yards and 50+ TDs a season (easy) under the current rules.

[BostonBlackie]

[steelreserve]

What about both of his Super Bowl comebacks against the Seahawks and Atlanta?

You can hate on the guy, but give credit when credit is due.

I don't know. I didn't watch either game, not going to watch either game, and they probably shouldn't have even been in the first one of those.

The whole point is the same - put any top-30 QB in there and more often than not, the system carries them to similar success. Reroll Tom Goatse's career with normal luck, and he wins maybe two championships. There are others who would've won more.

[DesertSteel]

Mike Tomczak > Tom Brady

[Mojouw]

I don't know. I didn't watch either game, not going to watch either game, and they probably shouldn't have even been in the first one of those.

The whole point is the same - put any top-30 QB in there and more often than not, the system carries them to similar success. Reroll Tom Goatse's career with normal luck, and he wins maybe two championships. There are others who would've won more.

Wait so your argument is based on not watching games and preconceived hate for a guy who has a legitimate claim to some of the best drives on the biggest stages?

As for the system thing, we gotta start ripping a lot of busts out of Canton if that’s a thing. Montana was like built in a lab for the West Coast system. Fouts puts up way less numbers if he doesn’t play in one of the pass happiest schemes of the era. Marino and Elway had schemes catered to their talents.

Sorry, I respect your opinion but the bias this one is filtered through is way too strong.

[FrancoLambert]

Wait so your argument is based on not watching games and preconceived hate for a guy who has a legitimate claim to some of the best drives on the biggest stages?

As for the system thing, we gotta start ripping a lot of busts out of Canton if that’s a thing. Montana was like built in a lab for the West Coast system. Fouts puts up way less numbers if he doesn’t play in one of the pass happiest schemes of the era. Marino and Elway had schemes catered to their talents.

Sorry, I respect your opinion but the bias this one is filtered through is way too strong.

Couldn't agree more.

I can't stand Brady, but to say the majority of his success stems from the system he plays in, the head coach he plays for, and cheating....well.....would you say the same thing about Bradshaw's 4 rings?

"He was lucky to play with arguably the greatest defense of all time, playing for one of the greatest coaches of all time, and protected by an O-line that was big into steroids at that time."

[86WARD]

Couldn't agree more.

I can't stand Brady, but to say the majority of his success stems from the system he plays in, the head coach he plays for, and cheating....well.....would you say the same thing about Bradshaw's 4 rings?

"He was lucky to play with arguably the greatest defense of all time, playing for one of the greatest coaches of all time, and protected by an O-line that was big into steroids at that time."

Yet with the game on the line, on the biggest stages in the world, said greatest defense of all time, looked average at best and Bradshaw carried the team to victory multiple times...calling his own plays. As for the O-Line on steroids...all NFL Players were doing it at that time. It wasn’t “illegal” then.

[cubanstogie]

It’s much more fun to watch guys like Marino throwing deep all day long with perfect spirals landing in stride with receiver than it is watching a tall guy throw 5 yarders. That doesn’t mean he is better QB. Brady takes what D gives you all day, and when D adjusts, he adjusts and throws over top for 20. Plus the dude only has one year where he didn’t have double digit wins. Best ever IMO. Maybe not aesthetically the best.

[Mojouw]

The ONE year Brady had a high end wideout that could get deep, they rewrote record books. I am no fan of the Pats, dislike the knee jerk bandwagon adulation of the franchise Yada yada...Tom Brady is really good.

[BostonBlackie]

Top ten longest throws, not catches, in NFL history. 4 belong to Brady.

[Mojouw]

Top ten longest throws, not catches, in NFL history. 4 belong to Brady.

While you will get no arguments from me on Taaawwwwmmmy's arm strength, I do find it hard to believe that no one threw over 65 yards prior to the early 1990s.

[Count Steeler]

While you will get no arguments from me on Taaawwwwmmmy's arm strength, I do find it hard to believe that no one threw over 65 yards prior to the early 1990s.

Bradshaw to Stallworth 75 yards in the SB in '79. For starters.

[BostonBlackie]

While you will get no arguments from me on Taaawwwwmmmy's arm strength, I do find it hard to believe that no one threw over 65 yards prior to the early 1990s.

I didn't make the video, only posted it, but you'd think so.

Of course as Marino said, a lot of people can throw over 65 yards, but can they hit anything? I think I read once that Sweetness could throw the length of the field.

[BostonBlackie]

Bradshaw to Stallworth 75 yards in the SB in '79. For starters.

They've got Bradshaw to Swann in there.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

What about both of his Super Bowl comebacks against the Seahawks and Atlanta?

You can hate on the guy, but give credit when credit is due.

I agree.

- - - Updated - - -

Wait so your argument is based on not watching games and preconceived hate for a guy who has a legitimate claim to some of the best drives on the biggest stages?

As for the system thing, we gotta start ripping a lot of busts out of Canton if that’s a thing. Montana was like built in a lab for the West Coast system. Fouts puts up way less numbers if he doesn’t play in one of the pass happiest schemes of the era. Marino and Elway had schemes catered to their talents.

Sorry, I respect your opinion but the bias this one is filtered through is way too strong.

Great points. Preach on!

[EzraTank]

I hate the Patriots but Brady is the greatest QB of all time.

The only year the Pats haven't made the playoffs since 2002 is the year Brady went down (2008) and even then they finished 11-5 and missed out on the playoffs because of two weird tie breakers.

[BostonBlackie]

Of course in the final analysis what makes a guy like Brady is his competitiveness. The only other athletes in the history of Boston sports that were as competitive as Brady IMO were Larry Bird, and Dave Cowens. Russell was competitive, he used to fight Chamberlain nearly to death, but Auerbach had to stoke his fire to keep him going. Bird, Cowens, and Brady are/were all self starters.

[Patriot71]

I didn't make the video, only posted it, but you'd think so.

Of course as Marino said, a lot of people can throw over 65 yards, but can they hit anything? I think I read once that Sweetness could throw the length of the field.

No he couldn't.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay back on topic because the Brady haters really sound dumb.


There's no controversy in the Patriots organization. Sorry guys but they are focused. It’s Just the annual effort from the media, opponents and league to give the other contenders a fighting chance. Cheating some would call it.

[tube517]

Sweetness had 8 TD passes in his career. I totally forgot about that.

At 1:09 you see our DC playing LB for the Bitch Pigeons.

[GBMelBlount]

Sweetness had 8 TD passes in his career. I totally forgot about that.

At 1:09 you see our DC playing LB for the Bitch Pigeons.

Holy heck, those were all great passes.

I am very curious how many attempts he had?

[Patriot71]

Holy heck, those were all great passes.

I am very curious how many attempts he had?

34 attempts 11 completions 8 TD's

[Lady Steel]

No he couldn't.

- - - Updated - - -

Okay back on topic because the Brady haters really sound dumb.


There's no controversy in the Patriots organization. Sorry guys but they are focused. It’s Just the annual effort from the media, opponents and league to give the other contenders a fighting chance. Cheating some would call it.

Brady knob slobbers really sound dumb.

[Patriot71]

Brady knob slobbers really sound dumb.

Stays the lady who obviously has no idea what she's seeing while watching a game. But I'm sure that you do know your knob slobbering.

[86WARD]

How does one explain Belichick trading Garoppolo for less at the end of the season than what he could’ve had in the spring or summer? Much less...

[Lady Steel]

Stays the lady who obviously has no idea what she's seeing while watching a game. But I'm sure that you do know your knob slobbering.

Ooooooh, you sure told me, Masshole.

Yep, you're all the same. Every last one of ya.