Bud Dupree one tackle tonight

[pczach]

It seems you are getting upset because Dupree is a bust so far. Try to relax. I think Harrison should have been used more this season.



Your whining about my opinion on Dupree. Age has nothing to do with it. Dupree could be 20, 30 or 40, it makes no difference. The fact is he has not lived up to his first round status. As of now he appears to be a bust. A player who can make a play once in awhile. There is a long list of players like that in the NFL.

I wasn't even thinking of Harrison when I created my initial post-game post here.

But I do agree with you that a player who did not play in the game was a non-factor. See? We agree on something : )

You're the guy that spews this crap about Dupree and Harrison all over this message board, not me. If you can't see that, then that's on you. I'm simply commenting in a thread about Dupree where he did have a sack on Tom Brady on a night when they only had a few.

You choose to refuse to make an unbiased judgement on his play in one game.

You will probably continue to call him Jarvis Jones and continue to vomit your hate about him and mention Harrison in every single thread that you post in.

I haven't been giving you shit about it in all those other threads. I'm calling you on it here. Everyone is sick of your shit as you bang the drum on one issue over and over again. You are the one hung up about this....not me.

[Steeldude]

Congratulations on what his 2nd good play in 14 games this year?

Haha

[Steeldude]

You're the guy that spews this crap about Dupree and Harrison all over this message board, not me. If you can't see that, then that's on you. I'm simply commenting in a thread about Dupree where he did have a sack on Tom Brady on a night when they only had a few.

You choose to refuse to make an unbiased judgement on his play in one game.

You will probably continue to call him Jarvis Jones and continue to vomit your hate about him and mention Harrison in every single thread that you post in.

I haven't been giving you shit about it in all those other threads. I'm calling you on it here. Everyone is sick of your shit as you bang the drum on one issue over and over again. You are the one hung up about this....not me.

Overreact much?

Everyone is sick of your shit

Then perhaps they should place me on ignore. Although it appears that many people on here and other MBs agree that Harrison should receive some snaps. Harrison did very well in the Chiefs game with only 15 snaps.

Dupree is an OLB. Harrison is an OLB. Dupree hasn't done much all year. Hence the reason fans talk about it. Now I realize you think Dupree is lights out and the next Derrick Thomas, but the games tell a different story.

I have yet to call Dupree by the name of Jarvis Jones. Your love for Dupree has confused you.

You choose to refuse to make an unbiased judgement on his play in one game.

That's your incorrect opinion. Yep, an unblocked sack and a tackle is nothing to jump up and down for.

You are the one hung up about this....not me

I am merely making a comment on the situation with the OLBs. If it bothers you so much just block me. This way you won't stress out so much. Think about it : )

[Mojouw]

What is folks measuring stick? Oh right. It’s totally arbitrary and fluid. That way preconceived notions are always correct.

Convenient that.

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12...onal-grades-3/

"Off the edge, Bud Dupree had a big game, recording 2 tackles, 2 tackles for loss, 1 sack and 1 tackle for loss, consistently coming off the edge with speed and power, creating problems for the Patriots."

I mean that sounds like there was a basis for more than a "non-factor" designation there for Dupree. But, again, I really don't know what everyone is using for a measuring stick and I do not believe we are all using the same one. That is fine, but likely a source of much of the disagreement. Additionally, one decent(ish) game doesn't salvage an entire underwhelming season.

[Hawkman]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12...onal-grades-3/

"Off the edge, Bud Dupree had a big game, recording 2 tackles, 2 tackles for loss, 1 sack and 1 tackle for loss, consistently coming off the edge with speed and power, creating problems for the Patriots."

I mean that sounds like there was a basis for more than a "non-factor" designation there for Dupree. But, again, I really don't know what everyone is using for a measuring stick and I do not believe we are all using the same one. That is fine, but likely a source of much of the disagreement. Additionally, one decent(ish) game doesn't salvage an entire underwhelming season.

Sounds more like a factor....to me.

[pczach]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12...onal-grades-3/

"Off the edge, Bud Dupree had a big game, recording 2 tackles, 2 tackles for loss, 1 sack and 1 tackle for loss, consistently coming off the edge with speed and power, creating problems for the Patriots."

I mean that sounds like there was a basis for more than a "non-factor" designation there for Dupree. But, again, I really don't know what everyone is using for a measuring stick and I do not believe we are all using the same one. That is fine, but likely a source of much of the disagreement. Additionally, one decent(ish) game doesn't salvage an entire underwhelming season.

Why even bother showing everyone what anyone that understands football and knows what they're looking at could easily see in this game? The people that have preconceived opinions aren't going to be swayed by facts and evidence to prove them wrong.

It doesn't make him a dominant pass rusher. It just means he had a good game.

Just a little bit of perspective. This place can use some.

Thanks for the link.

[st33lersguy]

One good game out of 14 so far, otherwise he's been a massive disappointment this year

[tube517]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/12...onal-grades-3/

"Off the edge, Bud Dupree had a big game, recording 2 tackles, 2 tackles for loss, 1 sack and 1 tackle for loss, consistently coming off the edge with speed and power, creating problems for the Patriots."

I mean that sounds like there was a basis for more than a "non-factor" designation there for Dupree. But, again, I really don't know what everyone is using for a measuring stick and I do not believe we are all using the same one. That is fine, but likely a source of much of the disagreement. Additionally, one decent(ish) game doesn't salvage an entire underwhelming season.

Are those Dong TFL's or just TFL's?

[Born2Steel]

I'm somewhat confused. Are we happy or disappointed with Bud Dupree?

[tube517]

I'm somewhat confused. Are we happy or disappointed with Bud Dupree?

Define "We"...

[Mojouw]

Are those Dong TFL's or just TFL's?

Worse. They are Wor-Dong TFLs. Combining the best of Gildon and Worilds - both storied pass rushers!

[Born2Steel]

Define "We"...

"We" - Small, or to take a pee in English. An exclamation of playful exuberance. Yes, in French. But mostly 'all of us', as in this forum.

[Mojouw]

Define "We"...

I think liberals like Bud Dupree because they are entitled whiners who just want things handed to them on snowflakes. Real Americans hate Dupree and love James Harrison because he represents hard work and determination. He also may be a bald eagle wearing a human disguise.

I think you have to check how you voted in the last three national elections, last 4 state primaries, and who your school board superintendent is - that should tell you if you are a fan of Dupree or not.

[teegre]

I think liberals like Bud Dupree because they are entitled whiners who just want things handed to them on snowflakes. Real Americans hate Dupree and love James Harrison because he represents hard work and determination. He also may be a bald eagle wearing a human disguise.

I think you have to check how you voted in the last three national elections, last 4 state primaries, and who your school board superintendent is - that should tell you if you are a fan of Dupree or not.

Those who voted for Roy Moore prefer Millie Bobby Brown...

[Psycho Ward 86]

I still think Dupree will become a pretty good pass rusher when healthy, just not this season. But Dupree just posted 0's across the stat box today and said the defense gave up plays by going for the team sack record instead of playing assignments. That 2nd part is especially disconcerting

[teegre]

I still think Dupree will become a pretty good pass rusher when healthy, just not this season. But Dupree just posted 0's across the stat box today and said the defense gave up plays by going for the team sack record instead of playing assignments. That 2nd part is especially disconcerting

Bud was covering Njoku quite a bit, as well as shifting out to cover the RBs (who lined up as receivers).

0’s do indeed suck, but Dupree wasn’t as invisible as the stats would suggest.

[tube517]

Alvin whiffed on one possible sack so was that a Dong Whiff? Missed Dong? WorilDong Wrong?

[Shoes]

I'd consider moving Dupree inside and draft a pass rusher.

[Born2Steel]

I'd consider moving Dupree inside and draft a pass rusher.

I'd consider moving to a 4-3 hybrid with our dline putting most of the QB pressures anyway. Keep VW at Mike, move Bud to Sam, and let Watt handle the Will spot. Unless Shaz comes back, then VW goes to back him up.

[Edman]

Buddong Dupree.

The worst Steelers OLB since Jarvis Jones. Totally Terrible player.

[86WARD]

Buddong Dupree.

The worst Steelers OLB since Jarvis Jones. Totally Terrible player.

Dupree has some coverage skills. Jones, not so much. The OLBs assignments are a lot different this year compared to the past. So when people shit on Dupree...when some of it is warranted, a good amount of it isn’t. Sometimes he’s supposed to not show up on paper. If he’s covering his man as he’s supposed to, he’s not going to show up on a stat sheet if the QB isn’t throwing that way b/c he’s doing his job.

I’m not defending him, I’m just saying things are a little different assignment wise. It’s not so cut and dry.

[teegre]

Dupree has some coverage skills. Jones, not so much. The OLBs assignments are a lot different this year compared to the past. So when people shit on Dupree...when some of it is warranted, a good amount of it isn’t. Sometimes he’s supposed to not show up on paper. If he’s covering his man as he’s supposed to, he’s not going to show up on a stat sheet if the QB isn’t throwing that way b/c he’s doing his job.

I’m not defending him, I’m just saying things are a little different assignment wise. It’s not so cut and dry.

Nailed it.

As a pass-rusher, Dupree HAS to develop a counter move, because otherwise OTs will continue to run him upfield/out of the play. Chuck Smith swears that Dupree has indeed developed said counter move, but we have not yet seen it (maybe because of Dupree’s bad shoulder???).

Regardless of that, the TEs (outside of Gronk) have not killed us this year... and, for the most part, that is due to Dupree.

[Mojouw]

Here is some interesting stuff -- http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

This second table lists each team's Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, along with rank among the 32 teams. Only five directions are listed because research so far shows no statistically significant difference between how well a team performs on runs listed middle, left guard, and right guard. These runs are from the perspective of the OFFENSE, so a run listed as LEFT TACKLE is actually at the RIGHT defensive end.

		LEFT END		LEFT TACKLE		MID/GUARD		RIGHT TACKLE		RIGHT END
	TEAM	ALY	Rank	ALY	Rank	ALY	Rank	ALY	Rank	ALY	Rank
1	PHI	2.44	2	2.82	4	3.04	1	3.24	10	3.28	10
2	CLE	3.05	4	3.14	7	3.49	2	3.04	7	2.07	3
3	ARI	3.72	14	2.61	3	3.81	8	2.76	3	2.38	4
4	DEN	3.19	9	3.30	10	3.54	3	1.90	1	3.92	16
5	CAR	2.77	3	2.36	2	3.93	10	4.15	21	3.31	11
6	NYJ	3.62	13	3.99	16	4.11	15	2.87	5	3.19	8
7	BAL	1.07	1	4.50	25	3.80	6	4.22	23	4.36	21
8	HOU	3.08	6	3.05	5	3.80	7	3.85	18	6.04	32
9	GB	3.42	12	5.02	28	4.62	29	3.41	12	1.53	2
10	MIA	4.85	27	4.69	27	3.61	4	3.23	9	5.88	31
11	DAL	3.12	8	4.01	17	3.99	11	4.73	29	3.90	15
12	PIT	6.27	32	4.25	22	3.82	9	3.28	11	4.02	18
13	MIN	3.88	18	2.32	1	4.35	21	4.40	26	3.36	12
14	TEN	3.11	7	5.21	31	4.37	24	3.47	14	0.48	1
15	NO	4.43	22	3.63	12	4.30	18	2.98	6	4.62	25
16	SF	4.96	28	3.59	11	4.31	19	3.84	17	2.68	5

If I am reading all this correctly (which is never a given) then the Steelers are far worse per carry to Watt's side than Dupree's side? Interesting stat if I have that right.

Also, it is possible that we are looking at an Artie Burns factor here also? Doesn't he usually play behind Watt? IF you look at all the stats in the linked article, it is pretty clear that the 2017 Steelers do not field a good run defense and it seems like tackling at the DB level is one of the primary problems.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Here is some interesting stuff -- http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

This second table lists each team's Adjusted Line Yards in each direction listed in official NFL play-by-play, along with rank among the 32 teams. Only five directions are listed because research so far shows no statistically significant difference between how well a team performs on runs listed middle, left guard, and right guard. These runs are from the perspective of the OFFENSE, so a run listed as LEFT TACKLE is actually at the RIGHT defensive end.

If I am reading all this correctly (which is never a given) then the Steelers are far worse per carry to Watt's side than Dupree's side? Interesting stat if I have that right.

Also, it is possible that we are looking at an Artie Burns factor here also? Doesn't he usually play behind Watt? IF you look at all the stats in the linked article, it is pretty clear that the 2017 Steelers do not field a good run defense and it seems like tackling at the DB level is one of the primary problems.

I think that you're reading it correctly and I also agree that Burns and Mitchell most likely factor in to that.

[Mojouw]

I think that you're reading it correctly and I also agree that Burns and Mitchell most likely factor in to that.

OK. Here are the #'s from last season:

LEFT END

LEFT TACKLE

MID/GUARD

RIGHT TACKLE

RIGHT END

14

PIT

5.37

29

2.65

2

4.18

16

4.64

23

2.34

3

And 2015

6

PIT

2.78

8

2.94

5

3.78

13

4.24

25

3.42

18

Taking all this together and I see that Dupree is an improvement on his side and Watt is a downgrade on his side. But the real culprit seems to be at the edges (the runs outside the ends) so that means the switch to man coverage capable DBs has led to a bunch of dudes who don't tackle as well as the old model zone coverage Steelers corners?

I don't know, but the absence of James Harrison does not seem to be ONLY factor in a less imposing rush defense. Additionally, it does not seem that Bud Dupree is the total crap-fest against the run that some make him out to be.

SO, like everything, the truth is far more complicated than the easy answers that internet arguments like to boil things down to.

[tube517]

OK. Here are the #'s from last season:

LEFT END

LEFT TACKLE

MID/GUARD

RIGHT TACKLE

RIGHT END

14

PIT

5.37

29

2.65

2

4.18

16

4.64

23

2.34

3

And 2015

6

PIT

2.78

8

2.94

5

3.78

13

4.24

25

3.42

18

Taking all this together and I see that Dupree is an improvement on his side and Watt is a downgrade on his side. But the real culprit seems to be at the edges (the runs outside the ends) so that means the switch to man coverage capable DBs has led to a bunch of dudes who don't tackle as well as the old model zone coverage Steelers corners?

I don't know, but the absence of James Harrison does not seem to be ONLY factor in a less imposing rush defense. Additionally, it does not seem that Bud Dupree is the total crap-fest against the run that some make him out to be.

SO, like everything, the truth is far more complicated than the easy answers that internet arguments like to boil things down to.

Fire Peazy, Olsavsky and John Mitchell.

[Hawkman]

Yeah, but should at least get a Watt-wall-de-dong sack.

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Jason Day won at Torrey Pines!!! I know...time to get my ass banned