Steelers Expected To Activate Sutton From Injured Reserve

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

That depends on what else happens at that position. If the BPA falling to the 32nd position is a FS and he comes on strong in OTAs, then I see that possibility being entertained. I do not see us actively seeking a FS veteran, however. The other option is a restructured contract, which I think is a more likely option. Maybe even extending him a year or two to soften the cap hit.

I think a restructure should be in order. I don't think Mitchell would garner much on the open market, given his age and lack of production and that can be asserted in the negotiations.

Remember when Mitchell was signed? The questions were....are the Steelers getting the player who didn't live up to expectations of the 2nd round draft pick in Oakland, or were they getting the ball hawking player with range that hat 4 INT's in one season in Carolina? He has had 4 INT in 4 seasons with the Steelers and I think we know what player the Steelers got.

Mitchell is on the downside of his career and it looked like it peaked that one season in Carolina. I think the Steelers should put cap space on players with upside, rather than aging veterans who have run out of potential.

[DesertSteel]

What is the cap savings if Mitchell is released prior to the 2018 season? I believe its significant.

Mitchell is tied for 26th highest paid safety. Do you think there are other NFL safeties that are making less who are better? Below are a few that make less than the $5million salary Mitchell makes this year.

-DJ Swearinger
-Reggie Nelson
-Antoine Bethea
-TJ Ward
-Malik Hooker
-Karl Joseph
-Patrick Chung
-Keanu Neal
-Kenny Vacarro
-Eric Reid
-HaHa Clinton Dix
-Jimmy Ward
-Landon Collins
-Jaquiski Tartt
-Vonn Bell
-Tre Boston

I think there is are a lot of other NFL safeties that are better than Mitchell and make less money. I looked it up and the Steelers can save $6.4 million in cap space by releasing the 31 year old Mitchell next season. IMO, its a reasonable possibility.

Looks like a lot of rookie contracts and a couple over-30's.

[Mojouw]

What is the cap savings if Mitchell is released prior to the 2018 season? I believe its significant.

Mitchell is tied for 26th highest paid safety. Do you think there are other NFL safeties that are making less who are better? Below are a few that make less than the $5million salary Mitchell makes this year.

-DJ Swearinger
-Reggie Nelson
-Antoine Bethea
-TJ Ward
-Malik Hooker
-Karl Joseph
-Patrick Chung
-Keanu Neal
-Kenny Vacarro
-Eric Reid
-HaHa Clinton Dix
-Jimmy Ward
-Landon Collins
-Jaquiski Tartt
-Vonn Bell
-Tre Boston

I think there is are a lot of other NFL safeties that are better than Mitchell and make less money. I looked it up and the Steelers can save $6.4 million in cap space by releasing the 31 year old Mitchell next season. IMO, its a reasonable possibility.

Like DesertSteel said, roookies and couple of over 30 guys. Not really a useful list. This list is a bit more instructive - free agent 2018 free safeties (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/free-safety/)

Reggie Nelson	FS	34	OAK	TBD	10	55					$4,250,000	UFA	-
Nate Allen	FS	29	MIA	TBD	7	20					$3,400,000	UFA	-
Calvin Pryor	FS	25	JAC	TBD	1						$2,140,813	UFA	-
Bradley McDougald	FS	27	SEA	TBD	10	22					$1,800,000	UFA	-
Michael Thomas	FS	28	MIA	TBD	10	16					$1,797,000	UFA	-
Corey Graham	FS	32	PHI	TBD	8	18				1	$1,600,000	UFA	-
Cody Davis	FS	28	LA	TBD	6	16		1		1	$1,458,333	UFA	-
Nate Ebner	FS	27	NE	TBD	8	2					$1,200,000	UFA	-
Deshawn Shead	FS	29	SEA	TBD							$1,200,000	UFA	-
Eddie Pleasant	FS	28	HOU	TBD	10	22	2	2	1	1	$1,075,000	UFA	-
Keith Tandy	FS	28	TB	TBD	8	8					$925,000	UFA	-
Tre Boston	FS	25	LAC	TBD	10	52				4	$900,000	UFA	Market Value
Jairus Byrd	FS	31	CAR	TBD	6	4					$900,000	UFA	-
Rafael Bush	FS	30	NO	TBD	9	11	1	1			$855,000	UFA	-
Terrence Brooks	FS	26	NYJ	TBD	9	7		3		2	$717,844	UFA	-
Adrian Phillips	FS	25	LAC	TBD	10	39		1	1	1	$690,000	UFA	-
Walt Aikens	FS	26	MIA	TBD	10	1					$658,977	UFA	-
Nat Berhe	FS	26	NYG	TBD	10	6	1	2			$603,200	UFA	-

The name that jumps out to me is Tre Boston. The site lists his market value (their tool for estimating FA contracts) at $7.6 million so I mean if we are really concerned about over-paying for average+ safety play - there is a great opportunity. This guy was already in for a FA visit in May after he got cut in Carolina. Having a decent "bet on yourself" year with the Chargers.

If the Steelers really want to improve the FS position, I figure they have 3 options:
1. Draft a guy that bumps Golden off the roster and let the kid develop behind Mitchell for a year.
2. Shift the big dude out of Utah or wherever that was drafted last year to FS and sit him behind Mitchell for a year.
3. Pay one of these guys (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/strong-safety/) a ton of money - like 7-12 million per - and shift Davis to FS. I could be into Burnett or the Kenny Vaccaro redemption tour. But that is a lot of money and a lot of moving pieces in what is an only recently "good" secondary. Either way - no $$ savings and no guarantee that it results in better play.

The way I see it, the above scenarios essentially ensure that Mitchell is back for another year. Likely, as I believe another poster mentioned, 1-3 years on a restructured deal. If Steelers fans want to see increased production from the safety spot, the best hope is that Sean Davis takes a leap and really starts impacting games on a week in week out basis.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Looks like a lot of rookie contracts and a couple over-30's.

Yup, and Sean Davis is in that range as well. Could one make a case that at least 80% of that list are better than Mike Mitchell and we would happily pay them the $5million that Mitchell is making to replace him?

So draft a Safety to replace Mitchell or look for some other vets similar to Patrick Chung, Reggie Nelson, DJ Swearinger to pay $5million to. I personally prefer drafting one. The fans with their #23 jerseys will still want to extend Mitchell and say his stats don't tell the whole story. I honestly don't think that over the past 4 seasons Mitchell has been here, that I have said on Mondays ..."Mike Mitchell really came up big on Sunday" any more than 5 times in 4 seasons. I think that list shows the Steelers can do better at the position for lower salary.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Like DesertSteel said, roookies and couple of over 30 guys. Not really a useful list. .

Thanks, but the statement was made that Mike Mitchell is the 28th highest paid safety at $5million a season and the question was if we could really get somebody better at the position without paying better than that $5million salary. I posted that list of players to show that there is a lot of better talent at the Safety position, for even less salary and reply that yes we can upgrade safety without breaking the bank.

The only problem is that you cant upgrade the safety position, if you keep old and declining talent on the roster. IMO, the Steelers need to draft a safety next year, to plan for the departure of Mitchell and to improve the position. Again, when is the last time and how often have you really said that Mike Mitchell has lived up to the level of play of Ryan Clark or even Chris Hope? I just think the FS position has been mediocre here for the past few seasons and look forward to it changing in the future.

[Mojouw]

Thanks, but the statement was made that Mike Mitchell is the 28th highest paid safety at $5million a season and the question was if we could really get somebody better at the position without paying better than that $5million salary. I posted that list of players to show that there is a lot of better talent at the Safety position, for even less salary and reply that yes we can upgrade safety without breaking the bank.

The only problem is that you cant upgrade the safety position, if you keep old and declining talent on the roster. IMO, the Steelers need to draft a safety next year, to plan for the departure of Mitchell and to improve the position. Again, when is the last time and how often have you really said that Mike Mitchell has lived up to the level of play of Ryan Clark or even Chris Hope? I just think the FS position has been mediocre here for the past few seasons and look forward to it changing in the future.

I agree that Mitchell could be upgraded - but that $5 million number is not a realistic one for what an upgrade would cost on the open market. Getting under that only applies if you talk about drafting a safety or taking a flier on a guy with question marks on his second or third contract. Almost every name on that list is either on an artificially depressed rookie contract or is a guy that took a "below market" deal because no one thought they were any good. So essentially rookies and Mitchell 2.0. In that scenario, I'm going with the devil I know.

Looking more specifically at the draft and using this list (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...&type=position) an "impact" FS is going to cost you a top 20 pick in the first round on average. So that really isn't happening. So now we are talking about a second-tier prospect that needs some developmental time. Landon Collins was not good his rookie year, etc.

Almost every scenario brings the Steelers back to starting Mike Mitchell unless they want to spend significantly more than $5 million per year and hope that Tre Boston is suddenly good for real or Morgan Burnett wants to leave Green Bay.

Bottom line: If the Steelers want to upgrade on Mitchell for $5 million or less, they need to draft a safety in the 1st round, hit on that prospect, and most likely wait 1+ seasons for that player to really impact. FS is hard to play and play well. There is no "secret" vet FA signing that is going to come here for $5 million or less and be assuredly better than Mitchell. The only chance is that if another Haden or Weddle situation arises and someone is unexpectedly cut and the Steelers can convince them to take less than market rate to ring chase.

[DesertSteel]

Yup, and Sean Davis is in that range as well. Could one make a case that at least 80% of that list are better than Mike Mitchell and we would happily pay them the $5million that Mitchell is making to replace him?

So draft a Safety to replace Mitchell or look for some other vets similar to Patrick Chung, Reggie Nelson, DJ Swearinger to pay $5million to. I personally prefer drafting one. The fans with their #23 jerseys will still want to extend Mitchell and say his stats don't tell the whole story. I honestly don't think that over the past 4 seasons Mitchell has been here, that I have said on Mondays ..."Mike Mitchell really came up big on Sunday" any more than 5 times in 4 seasons. I think that list shows the Steelers can do better at the position for lower salary.

A second or third rounder should be able to plug right in. Bye bye Mitchell!!

[Mojouw]

A second or third rounder should be able to plug right in. Bye bye Mitchell!!

Not based on history across the league.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...&type=position

Hard to find many Day 1 rookie year starters outside of the first round on that list. Not impossible, but very very difficult especially at FS and not SS.

I want to be clear, I am all for upgrading the safety position overall and consider it a top priority alongside TE in the next off-season cycle, but I do not think there is a quick fix on the horizon. It will be a 1-2 year process.

[Born2Steel]

Put the money in the front 7. Keep drafting guys like Sutton that can play zone AND man. FS will be the easiest position to play on the defense. Get a veteran that knows tendencies.

[DesertSteel]

Not based on history across the league.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...&type=position

Hard to find many Day 1 rookie year starters outside of the first round on that list. Not impossible, but very very difficult especially at FS and not SS.

I want to be clear, I am all for upgrading the safety position overall and consider it a top priority alongside TE in the next off-season cycle, but I do not think there is a quick fix on the horizon. It will be a 1-2 year process.

There's some good players on that list. Some busts too. But that's true of every position.

[Shoes]

How he continues to stick around amazes me. The guy does nothing for us.

The Steelers always have a few parasites hanging around.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

A second or third rounder should be able to plug right in. Bye bye Mitchell!!

Yes, I think that should be the plan. There is a stat out there that something like only 4% of rookies or less are day 1 starters, so I don't expect a quick plug and play guy, but something needs to be done going forward at that position.

[Born2Steel]

I strongly disagree that Mitchell "does nothing for us". C'mon, just the fact that every fan would rather have him than Golden proves he has value to this team.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I strongly disagree that Mitchell "does nothing for us". C'mon, just the fact that every fan would rather have him than Golden proves he has value to this team.

Does nothing for us is a bit harsh. But, the situation you are describing is like preferring boiled spinach over brussell sprouts. I'm not saying that either are useless, but I am willing to search for a better alternative than both.

You do realize that Rob Golden was an UDFA from Arizona st that was a converted CB to Safety and has been nothing more than a special team ace in his career. Its kind of like saying that fans preferred Carlos Emmons at OLB over Patrick Bailey, so he must be good. (even though they likely didn't overlap chronologically)

[Born2Steel]

Does nothing for us is a bit harsh. But, the situation you are describing is like preferring boiled spinach over brussell sprouts. I'm not saying that either are useless, but I am willing to search for a better alternative than both.

You do realize that Rob Golden was an UDFA from Arizona st that was a converted CB to Safety and has been nothing more than a special team ace in his career. Its kind of like saying that fans preferred Carlos Emmons at OLB over Patrick Bailey, so he must be good. (even though they likely didn't overlap chronologically)

Mitchell has played the safety position for the Steelers. Your examples mean NOTHING to the conversation. Taste vs physical ability to play safety in the NFL? Whatever Golden was, he's playing the safety role now. My point is there is no doubt who we would rather have between who we have on the roster currently, Mitchell or Golden. Only Golden's mother prefers him over Mitchell. That said, Mitchell has value to this team, this year. Can he be upgraded? Of course, but to say he does nothing for this team is the exaggeration I was disagreeing with. ONLY.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I'd still like to know what's happened to J.J. Wilcox. I thought that he was playing pretty well when given the chance early in the season. Now he's not even getting on the field.

[Born2Steel]

I'd still like to know what's happened to J.J. Wilcox. I thought that he was playing pretty well when given the chance early in the season. Now he's not even getting on the field.

Not sure. His stats show he's played in 8 games this season. Maybe he's not used in most of the subsets.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Mitchell has played the safety position for the Steelers. Your examples mean NOTHING to the conversation. Taste vs physical ability to play safety in the NFL? Whatever Golden was, he's playing the safety role now. My point is there is no doubt who we would rather have between who we have on the roster currently, Mitchell or Golden. Only Golden's mother prefers him over Mitchell. That said, Mitchell has value to this team, this year. Can he be upgraded? Of course, but to say he does nothing for this team is the exaggeration I was disagreeing with. ONLY.

One could surmise that your statement that "every FAN prefers Mitchell over Golden proves he has value to the team" is an example that means nothing to the conversation.... Could it not? What does "fan opinion" of a player do that directly correlates to value? If that were true, John Kuhn would be making $20 million a year.

I never said he does nothing for the team and don't agree with that statement, whoever said it. Fan opinion of a player is as irrelevant as personal taste to a players value in the NFL. As I said before, Mike Mitchell's career in the NFL is that of a 2nd round pick that never lived up to expecations and his career peaked his 1 season in Carolina. He will be 31 next year and is on the decline in play, so it makes sense to plan for his future and I hope that is addressed this offseason.

[SteelMember]

I'd still like to know what's happened to J.J. Wilcox. I thought that he was playing pretty well when given the chance early in the season. Now he's not even getting on the field.

Article is about a month old, but somewhat of an answer without the specifics you may be looking for...

"J.J. Wilcox has been a huge disappointment for the Pittsburgh Steelers since arriving via trade at the end of the preseason. Expected to be a stabilizing force for their secondary, the pass-defense has actually been great... no thanks to Wilcox. His playing time has been reduced each week, and now, it seems, we have a change on the depth chart.

Chris Adamski of The Tribune-Review reports that Robert Golden, not Wilcox, seems to be the No. 3 safety on the depth chart at the moment.

That shouldn't come as any sort of surprise to those who have been watching the games. Golden played 33 defensive snaps against the Lions on Sunday. That's a lot even for a No. 3 safety, proving that the Steelers are gaining more and more faith in him as potentially big part of their defense even with Mike Mitchell and Sean Davis entrenched as the starters. Moving forward, it seems as though those three safeties will be the rotation.

Wilcox, on the other hand, played only one defensive snap on Sunday. He has played nine snaps in the past four weeks after playing a ridiculous 69 against the Baltimore Ravens the week before that stretch started. The Steelers have seen what Wilcox has to offer and have chosen to go in a different direction.

The Steelers have such a dominant pass-defense this year that shuffling parts around the back end likely won't have a major impact, but Mitchell and Davis could both easily get injured. If Golden has outplayed Wilcox so far, he deserves to be the Steeler to step up should a new starter be necessary.

Wilcox was an aggressive move to try to upgrade the defense right now. It was the right attitude for the Steelers, who hit a home run in that regard with the signing of Joe Haden, but ultimately Wilcox just didn't live up to expectations. He'll likely be a backup and special teams player for the rest of the year."

[SteelMember]

Mike Tomlin not ruling out using Cam Sutton as punt returner
Sutton averaged 14.3 yards per return during his time at Tennessee.

Same site as above

[Craic]

Let's go at this discussion from another direction. What personnel moves, in order, do you think we need to make this offseason in order to be more competitive in the next two to three years while keeping the salary cap in mind?

Starting in 2018, the Steelers will be have $-11,936,687 of cap space. My guess is J. J. Wilcox will be dropped (article in another post in this thread). That is $3,125,000. Shazier has a base salary (and cap hit) of 8.7 million next year, which is the final year of his contract (up from a cap hit of 3.025 mill this year). However, his production puts him in line for an average salary of 11-12 mill a year (in the range of Vontaze Burfict to Luke Kuechly, or in between the eight and twelveth highest average salaries). So no cap room there unless we sign him to a six or seven year deal and spread out a smaller signing bonus along with roster bonuses along the way. This list doesn't even account for Le'Veon Bell and his cap hit. So, we're going to be in serious cap trouble next year without a lot of restructuring that.

Now, that being said . . .

Mike Mitchell is a 8.1 mill hit against the cap with 1.76 mill as dead money if he is released. Vance McDonald is 4.6 mill against the cap with 0 dead money if he is released. So, what of personnel moves? Dropping Mitchell gives us back 6.34 mill in cap money and dropping McDonald gives us 1.74 million less. Is Mitchell's contribution worth more than 1.74 mill compared to McDonald's contribution to the team? Absolutely. So, McDonald gets cut (in my scenario). Now, with the TEs we have left, is there a bigger deficiency in the TE department or in the FS department? Our redzone woes, while always an issue, took a dramatic dip after Heath left (from 13th to 16th [we had Greene for a little bit] and down to 31st this year). So, IMO, an increase in TE production is of bigger benefit than than an increase in FS production over the next couple of years.

With that in mind, I think a perfect scenario would be, in order . . .

Designate Vance McDonald a post-June 1 cut.
Extend Mitchell's contract two years and backloading the base salary to the final year while spreading out his cap hit. (Or, if we can upgrade for a better cap hit, then do so, but I doubt we will be able to).
Sign a FA TE that can come in and contribute right away.
Sign a FA backup ILB and OLB (assuming Harrison retires) that can step in for several games if a LB is injured. (Currently, we have it at OLB, but I'm not comfortable with our backup ILBs if they have to start several games).
2018 draft—find a QB if available (or trade out of the first round to couple 1st round picks for the following year).
2018 draft—find a TE if available and not found in FA
2018 draft—take a small-school or position-conversion shot at a FS that will sit behind Mitchell for a year, then compete with him for the job.

2019 draft—follow the above order for drafting whatever positions were not filled in the 2018 draft.
_____________________________________________

Now, back to the topic at hand . . .

Anyone wonder if Sutton can transition to FS? It seems to play to all his strengths and negates most of his weaknesses (if going by draft analysis). I especially like the idea that he has good closing speed, good hands, and can jump routes.

[Born2Steel]

One could surmise that your statement that "every FAN prefers Mitchell over Golden proves he has value to the team" is an example that means nothing to the conversation.... Could it not? What does "fan opinion" of a player do that directly correlates to value? If that were true, John Kuhn would be making $20 million a year.

I never said he does nothing for the team and don't agree with that statement, whoever said it. Fan opinion of a player is as irrelevant as personal taste to a players value in the NFL. As I said before, Mike Mitchell's career in the NFL is that of a 2nd round pick that never lived up to expecations and his career peaked his 1 season in Carolina. He will be 31 next year and is on the decline in play, so it makes sense to plan for his future and I hope that is addressed this offseason.

"One could surmise..."

- - - Updated - - -

Let's go at this discussion from another direction. What personnel moves, in order, do you think we need to make this offseason in order to be more competitive in the next two to three years while keeping the salary cap in mind?

Starting in 2018, the Steelers will be have $-11,936,687 of cap space. My guess is J. J. Wilcox will be dropped (article in another post in this thread). That is $3,125,000. Shazier has a base salary (and cap hit) of 8.7 million next year, which is the final year of his contract (up from a cap hit of 3.025 mill this year). However, his production puts him in line for an average salary of 11-12 mill a year (in the range of Vontaze Burfict to Luke Kuechly, or in between the eight and twelveth highest average salaries). So no cap room there unless we sign him to a six or seven year deal and spread out a smaller signing bonus along with roster bonuses along the way. This list doesn't even account for Le'Veon Bell and his cap hit. So, we're going to be in serious cap trouble next year without a lot of restructuring that.

Now, that being said . . .

Mike Mitchell is a 8.1 mill hit against the cap with 1.76 mill as dead money if he is released. Vance McDonald is 4.6 mill against the cap with 0 dead money if he is released. So, what of personnel moves? Dropping Mitchell gives us back 6.34 mill in cap money and dropping McDonald gives us 1.74 million less. Is Mitchell's contribution worth more than 1.74 mill compared to McDonald's contribution to the team? Absolutely. So, McDonald gets cut (in my scenario). Now, with the TEs we have left, is there a bigger deficiency in the TE department or in the FS department? Our redzone woes, while always an issue, took a dramatic dip after Heath left (from 13th to 16th [we had Greene for a little bit] and down to 31st this year). So, IMO, an increase in TE production is of bigger benefit than than an increase in FS production over the next couple of years.

With that in mind, I think a perfect scenario would be, in order . . .

Designate Vance McDonald a post-June 1 cut.
Extend Mitchell's contract two years and backloading the base salary to the final year while spreading out his cap hit. (Or, if we can upgrade for a better cap hit, then do so, but I doubt we will be able to).
Sign a FA TE that can come in and contribute right away.
Sign a FA backup ILB and OLB (assuming Harrison retires) that can step in for several games if a LB is injured. (Currently, we have it at OLB, but I'm not comfortable with our backup ILBs if they have to start several games).
2018 draft—find a QB if available (or trade out of the first round to couple 1st round picks for the following year).
2018 draft—find a TE if available and not found in FA
2018 draft—take a small-school or position-conversion shot at a FS that will sit behind Mitchell for a year, then compete with him for the job.

2019 draft—follow the above order for drafting whatever positions were not filled in the 2018 draft.
_____________________________________________

Now, back to the topic at hand . . .

Anyone wonder if Sutton can transition to FS? It seems to play to all his strengths and negates most of his weaknesses (if going by draft analysis). I especially like the idea that he has good closing speed, good hands, and can jump routes.

Sort of a short, sweet reaction to your indepth post, but all I really want to say is I would be on board with most of that right now.

[SteelerFanInStl]

Article is about a month old, but somewhat of an answer without the specifics you may be looking for...

"J.J. Wilcox has been a huge disappointment for the Pittsburgh Steelers since arriving via trade at the end of the preseason. Expected to be a stabilizing force for their secondary, the pass-defense has actually been great... no thanks to Wilcox. His playing time has been reduced each week, and now, it seems, we have a change on the depth chart.

Chris Adamski of The Tribune-Review reports that Robert Golden, not Wilcox, seems to be the No. 3 safety on the depth chart at the moment.

That shouldn't come as any sort of surprise to those who have been watching the games. Golden played 33 defensive snaps against the Lions on Sunday. That's a lot even for a No. 3 safety, proving that the Steelers are gaining more and more faith in him as potentially big part of their defense even with Mike Mitchell and Sean Davis entrenched as the starters. Moving forward, it seems as though those three safeties will be the rotation.

Wilcox, on the other hand, played only one defensive snap on Sunday. He has played nine snaps in the past four weeks after playing a ridiculous 69 against the Baltimore Ravens the week before that stretch started. The Steelers have seen what Wilcox has to offer and have chosen to go in a different direction.

The Steelers have such a dominant pass-defense this year that shuffling parts around the back end likely won't have a major impact, but Mitchell and Davis could both easily get injured. If Golden has outplayed Wilcox so far, he deserves to be the Steeler to step up should a new starter be necessary.

Wilcox was an aggressive move to try to upgrade the defense right now. It was the right attitude for the Steelers, who hit a home run in that regard with the signing of Joe Haden, but ultimately Wilcox just didn't live up to expectations. He'll likely be a backup and special teams player for the rest of the year."

Thanks but unfortunately that article doesn't tell me anything as to WHY he's supposedly been "a huge disappointment". He seemed to play well during games.