I Will Say It Artie Burns Sux!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Yes, he's better than what we had. No question about that. I like his potential but I'm not seeing the growth that I expected this year out of him. I still have hope though.

Yep my point and see no improvement whatsoever from him after last year. I know he is young and has time to improve but we should see signs of it and there not there. Yes he is better then what we had and was a desperate pick and sometimes you have to make desperate picks. He is a average CB and honestly don't expect much more out of him. I'm wrong he doesn't sux and is average.

[teegre]

Its not an excuse for screwing up and you are smart enough to know that.

His age is not the point in the least. It is about the # of snaps and reps conducted as a full-time high-level football player.

For his entire HS career he was a football and track guy. Same thing at Miami. So that means no spring practices, drills, and scrimmages. It means far less reps and position specific coaching than comparable players in other major NCAA programs that only play football.

2017 was Burns' only year as a full-time football player.

Now, the pessimists and grumps on here look at Burns see the 1st round draft cost and ONLY acknowledge the mental mistakes, technique issues, and lack of physicality. That's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Others of us choose (again - only an opinion) to look at Burns and see a young, raw, still developing player who has some serious holes in his game but projects to be Ike Taylor - tacking + catching INTS = borderline Pro Bowl CB.

Ike Taylor was a similarly raw CB prospect coming out of school and he didn't play a full slate of games until his 3rd year. Burns started and played average at worst in his rookie year. Now, Burns was more developed coming out of school than Taylor, but that the point holds.

Here is the list of CBs drafted between 2015-2017 (http://pfref.com/tiny/yilZw). There are about maybe a half dozen guys on there that I know are better than Burns and would've loved to see in a Steelers uniform (Peters, Ramsey, A. Jackson, Lattimore). All of them were drafted before the Steelers' pick in their draft year.

Burns is leaps and bounds better than any CB this team has suited up since Taylor hung 'em up. That's enough for me to be optimistic about his future development. Remember, even Rod Woodson didn't start a full season of games until his second year and didn't become the all-time destroyer of offenses until his 3rd year. Is Burns even in that same ball-park? Absolutely not - but I refuse to understand why anyone can look at a woefully inexperienced player in his second NFL season and say "Well, yup. That's his ceiling. No way he gets better. Next!"

If Burns is a motivated worker and smart enough to take coaching -- he can be Ike Taylor+. Is Burns that guy? Or is he a knucklehead? I have no idea. I don't know anything about him. Time will tell.

As I have stated in all of the other “Burns sucks!!” threads, I recall a young linebacker who made some really big mistskes (e.g. knocking down a player on a kickoff and staring him down... while the returner ran right behind him). Then, that linebacker got better.

And, Yes, you could say that about almost any player... which is my point: players develop and get better. Because, not everyone is Marshon Lattimore/Randy Moss (great from day one); in fact, those two are the exception to the rule.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

If Artie didn't have his speed and his only attribute IMO, people would be cursing him like Blake.

[DesertSteel]

1-star thread

[Texasteel]

I don't pay much attention to this kind of talk. I remember people calling Troy and bust his first couple of years in the league. Just let the young man play, and learn and then see what we do or do not have.

How ever, since I was probably the first one on the Burns bandwagon my opinion may be a little tilted.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

1-star thread

Thread served it's purpose and got a few replies from you. You have to give it two stars for that!

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Thread served it's purpose and got a few replies from you. You have to give it two stars for that!

Might get another star if Burns keeps letting guys run free up the sidelines for a 3rd week in a row.

[Rotorhead]

We can only blame 1 TD on Burns, the other was Mitchell taking a bad angle and missing the tackle. The one up the sideline, (as it looked to me anyway) was between the handoff of Burns and Mitchell, which Mitchell was late to and then took a bad angle and got beat.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

We can only blame 1 TD on Burns, the other was Mitchell taking a bad angle and missing the tackle. The one up the sideline, (as it looked to me anyway) was between the handoff of Burns and Mitchell, which Mitchell was late to and then took a bad angle and got beat.

Why would Mitchell be "late to" getting all the way to the sidelines when it looked like they were in Cover 3 and Burns has the sideline? Its on film in college and now in the NFL for Burns. He likes to try and jump routes in front of him to make INT's, and loses his responsibilities in coverage. OC's know if you give him a double move, or a combination route like last night where he can bite on the slant, he leaves his coverage assignment. Lets hope he learns this week and doesn't do it again.

[Mojouw]

We can only blame 1 TD on Burns, the other was Mitchell taking a bad angle and missing the tackle. The one up the sideline, (as it looked to me anyway) was between the handoff of Burns and Mitchell, which Mitchell was late to and then took a bad angle and got beat.

Wasn't that on Sensabaugh just straight getting beat?

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11...hs-breakdowns/

If it is that play, Sensabaugh just bit hard on the route by the WR and then wasn't able to recover. Mitchell doesn't make the best tackle, but that was Sensabaugh's guy all the way.

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Why would Mitchell be "late to" getting all the way to the sidelines when it looked like they were in Cover 3 and Burns has the sideline? Its on film in college and now in the NFL for Burns. He likes to try and jump routes in front of him to make INT's, and loses his responsibilities in coverage. OC's know if you give him a double move, or a combination route like last night where he can bite on the slant, he leaves his coverage assignment. Lets hope he learns this week and doesn't do it again.

You all are talking about different plays. Burns gave up one TD because he is a moron. Shazier gave up one TD because he gambled and lost. Sensabaugh gave up one TD because Adams beat him like a drum.

[Hawkman]

Why would Mitchell be "late to" getting all the way to the sidelines when it looked like they were in Cover 3 and Burns has the sideline? Its on film in college and now in the NFL for Burns. He likes to try and jump routes in front of him to make INT's, and loses his responsibilities in coverage. OC's know if you give him a double move, or a combination route like last night where he can bite on the slant, he leaves his coverage assignment. Lets hope he learns this week and doesn't do it again.

I feel certain that will be a big emphasis this week, especially with A.J. On Monday.

[Iron Steeler]

He is not that good. It is clear we wanted the guy that went to the Bengals and they took him right before us.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Wasn't that on Sensabaugh just straight getting beat?

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/11...hs-breakdowns/

If it is that play, Sensabaugh just bit hard on the route by the WR and then wasn't able to recover. Mitchell doesn't make the best tackle, but that was Sensabaugh's guy all the way.

- - - Updated - - -



You all are talking about different plays. Burns gave up one TD because he is a moron. Shazier gave up one TD because he gambled and lost. Sensabaugh gave up one TD because Adams beat him like a drum.

Yeah, I didn't get the Sensabaugh play of jumping the route on the move of the receiver, he didn't even look at the QB to bite on the weak pump fake. Kind of poor technique, in that he wasn't in any kind of decent backpedal or even a bail so he could look at the QB. Its why I appreciate how Haden plays so much more, as the small details like his technique allow him to be in so much better position than scrubs like Sensabaugh.

[Rotorhead]

As I said, as I saw it. Cody's guy, he was just beat. Burns, it looked to me he was supposed to have over the top help and Mitchell wasnt there in time and took a bad angle, but I could very well be wrong.

[Mojouw]

Yeah, I didn't get the Sensabaugh play of jumping the route on the move of the receiver, he didn't even look at the QB to bite on the weak pump fake. Kind of poor technique, in that he wasn't in any kind of decent backpedal or even a bail so he could look at the QB. Its why I appreciate how Haden plays so much more, as the small details like his technique allow him to be in so much better position than scrubs like Sensabaugh.

I really have no idea what Sensabaugh was doing other than thinking that the ball was coming out quick. It was just a bad play.

I still do not totally understand why Sensabaugh was the guy that was kept over Cockrell. I know that he looked bad in preseason, but 2016 Cockrell seems to be a superior player to 2017 Sensabaugh. Maybe, I'm just being grumpy?

[SteelerFanInStl]

I really have no idea what Sensabaugh was doing other than thinking that the ball was coming out quick. It was just a bad play.

I still do not totally understand why Sensabaugh was the guy that was kept over Cockrell. I know that he looked bad in preseason, but 2016 Cockrell seems to be a superior player to 2017 Sensabaugh. Maybe, I'm just being grumpy?

Sensabaugh is terrible. I hated the signing in the offseason. I didn't think that he'd even make the team and now he's starting.

[SteelMember]

As I said, as I saw it. Cody's guy, he was just beat. Burns, it looked to me he was supposed to have over the top help and Mitchell wasnt there in time and took a bad angle, but I could very well be wrong.

Pretty sure Burns was supposed to have the deep boundary and followed the post route instead... which would have been Mitchell's guy. They were both almost in the same spot on the field when they turned to pursue... Burns then fell down tripping over Mike. =(

Watt was covering him short boundary but released him with the RB coming over into that area. So, that's Burns leaving his assignment, imo.

[Mojouw]

Sensabaugh is terrible. I hated the signing in the offseason. I didn't think that he'd even make the team and now he's starting.

I like the signing for depth when Cockrell was still the starter, Golson was injured, Hilton was an unknown, and Haden was still a Brown.

Based on everything that happened after that...I understand why it happened. The Giants were not trading for a guy they had just cut. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it or like it!

[SteelMember]

I really have no idea what Sensabaugh was doing other than thinking that the ball was coming out quick. It was just a bad play.

I still do not totally understand why Sensabaugh was the guy that was kept over Cockrell. I know that he looked bad in preseason, but 2016 Cockrell seems to be a superior player to 2017 Sensabaugh. Maybe, I'm just being grumpy?

Indeed. Since it was 3rd and short, he was probably looking for the short pass... the quick stop and go with the little shoulder fake by the QB... he guessed badly.

[Craic]

There's a reason people talk about the Sophomore slump. I'm willing to wait it out before condemning Burns. That doesn't change the fact that he has caused some problems in the secondary this year. He definitely needs to learn how to tackle and extend through the hit.

[Neversatisfied]

Sucks is a bit harsh however he is not 1st round worthy. The Steelers were in desperate need of a corner and took Burns. Burns will be serviceable (not someone I would wanna see on someone's #1 reciever) but he needs time to progress, he was a reach when the Steelers took him in the 1st round and he spent have 1st round talent so naturally there are high expectations for the guy

[Rotorhead]

Pretty sure Burns was supposed to have the deep boundary and followed the post route instead... which would have been Mitchell's guy. They were both almost in the same spot on the field when they turned to pursue... Burns then fell down tripping over Mike. =(

Watt was covering him short boundary but released him with the RB coming over into that area. So, that's Burns leaving his assignment, imo.

That makes sense, thanks for the explanation. Well, we are going to have to get those little things cleaned up before the Pats, they are probably the best at exploiting mixed up assignments. I don't mind us starting to work out the bugs of M2M coverages before the Pats so as long as this is a lesson learned. Better now then in week 15.

[Mojouw]

I seriously fail to understand why this conversation keeps happening. Burns has no new pros and no new cons.

Here are ALL the CBs drafted from like ever (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...&type=position). Start looking at guys you would rather have from say 2014 on or so. The list doesn't get very big.

2014 - Gilbert, Fuller, and Dennard were the supposed prizes of that class. Out of the league, not very good, and not very good.
2015 - Waynes, Johnson, Peters, and Byron Jones are the big 1st round guys here. Peters is the one that stands out here.
2016 - Ramsey, Hargreaves, Apple, WJII, Alexander and Burns. I would rather have Ramsey, but for the rest? Not sure Burns isn't playing as well or better than those dudes.
2017 - jury is still out. Lattimore and Jackson look significantly better than Burns. Maybe Tre White?

I'm not certain what the standard of evaluation is here. If I'm running a team and I spend a 1st round pick on a guy and he then proceeds to start 20 of his first 27 career games, provide the team with above average play at a position that was previously a waste-land - well I'm largely pleased. Or at least more pleased than pissed.

Does Burns have problems? Absolutely. He still doesn't really understand zone or zone man concepts all that well. He is a somewhat willing tackler, but he sucks at at, and he has not been as sticky fingered as promised. But the kid is 27 games into his career. I am not predicting great things for him (if he was going to be a dominant play-maker we should have seen flashes by now) but the whole "bust" and "sux" stuff is not supported by realistic comparisons to similar players.

[teegre]

I bought low on Burns... about 500 shares.

In a few years, I'll be a millionaire.

[SteelMember]

I seriously fail to understand why this conversation keeps happening. Burns has no new pros and no new cons.

Here are ALL the CBs drafted from like ever (http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...&type=position). Start looking at guys you would rather have from say 2014 on or so. The list doesn't get very big.

2014 - Gilbert, Fuller, and Dennard were the supposed prizes of that class. Out of the league, not very good, and not very good.
2015 - Waynes, Johnson, Peters, and Byron Jones are the big 1st round guys here. Peters is the one that stands out here.
2016 - Ramsey, Hargreaves, Apple, WJII, Alexander and Burns. I would rather have Ramsey, but for the rest? Not sure Burns isn't playing as well or better than those dudes.
2017 - jury is still out. Lattimore and Jackson look significantly better than Burns. Maybe Tre White?

I'm not certain what the standard of evaluation is here. If I'm running a team and I spend a 1st round pick on a guy and he then proceeds to start 20 of his first 27 career games, provide the team with above average play at a position that was previously a waste-land - well I'm largely pleased. Or at least more pleased than pissed.

Does Burns have problems? Absolutely. He still doesn't really understand zone or zone man concepts all that well. He is a somewhat willing tackler, but he sucks at at, and he has not been as sticky fingered as promised. But the kid is 27 games into his career. I am not predicting great things for him (if he was going to be a dominant play-maker we should have seen flashes by now) but the whole "bust" and "sux" stuff is not supported by realistic comparisons to similar players.

I don't think anyone brought up "sux" until Coty's name was brought into the discussion.

It is a bumped thread from over a week ago... thanks, Gonzo.

[Hawkman]

I don't think anyone brought up "sux" until Coty's name was brought into the discussion.

:

You mean, outside of the title of the thread.

[SteelMember]

You mean, outside of the title of the thread.

Yeah... 'cause it's an old thread that was bumped for some bad play. Besides, Mojo was already a few posts in today before this last one. Just threw me off I guess.

[43Hitman]

The play that Burns and Mitchell ended up in the same place was designed to beat cover 3 which is what we were in. Burns was supposed to cover his deep third of the field, the Packers exploited that coverage to make Burns think he needed to follow his guy. Will Allen was talking about it today and said that Green Bay just did a great job of beating our Cover 3. Burns still has to do better, but hey the other team gets paid too.

[ALLD]

Burns is going to be competing against a new draft pick next year. Steelers will also be shopping for S.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I really have no idea what Sensabaugh was doing other than thinking that the ball was coming out quick. It was just a bad play.

I still do not totally understand why Sensabaugh was the guy that was kept over Cockrell. I know that he looked bad in preseason, but 2016 Cockrell seems to be a superior player to 2017 Sensabaugh. Maybe, I'm just being grumpy?

I think they felt Cockrell had some trade value and they got something for him from the Giants. I agree that Sensabaugh did look terrible in the preseason and felt he wasn't as good as Cockrell, but I think the Steelers thought was he would be the #5 CB anyway and is under contract for 2 years, so why not keep him as depth.

I mentioned earlier when Haden went down....do they put Hilton on the boundary and let Gay play the slot, or start Sensabaugh out there. I guess we kno