Week 8:Detroit Lions(3-3)

[polamalubeast]

The only thing the lions are good this year are the turnovers in defense.Only the Jaguars have more turnovers than the Lions.If Roethlisberger protects the ball and Bell is involved, that should be enough.They need to be better in the 3rd down and short too.

For the Lions offense, the lions have no running game and our pass defense has been great this year, so I am confident that our defense will continue to play well.

[Moose]

The only thing the lions are good this year are the turnovers in defense.Only the Jaguars have more turnovers than the Lions.If Roethlisberger protects the ball and Bell is involved, that should be enough.They need to be better in the 3rd down and short too.

For the Lions offense, the lions have no running game and our pass defense has been great this year, so I am confident that our defense will continue to play well.

You hit the nail on the head big time....."they need to be better in the 3rd down and short " ! It's getting really pathetic seeing this team drive down to the end zone and end up with 3's. We left 20pts on the field in the bunghole game......5 times getting down field and ending up with FGs. Luckily, that 20 pts. didn't hurt us.

[polamalubeast]

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

You hit the nail on the head big time....."they need to be better in the 3rd down and short " ! It's getting really pathetic seeing this team drive down to the end zone and end up with 3's. We left 20pts on the field in the bunghole game......5 times getting down field and ending up with FGs. Luckily, that 20 pts. didn't hurt us.

Yes, its always better if you can get TD's instead of FG's, but do you know how many of the top 30 players in scoring last year were position players?? Only 3. Yes, 27 of the top 30 in NFL scoring in 2016 were Kickers.

FG's happen and NFL defenses find ways to make it more difficult to score TD's on a shorter field, so its really not that surprising that kickers are making 25-40 FG's a season. With a good defense, you can take multiple FG's and win games instead of gambling on 4th and goal and getting nothing like KC and CIN have done the past couple weeks.

Have to win the turnover battle with the Lions and get pressure on Stafford and take whatever points they can. Hopefully TD's, but 3 counts too.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Yes, its always better if you can get TD's instead of FG's, but do you know how many of the top 30 players in scoring last year were position players?? Only 3. Yes, 27 of the top 30 in NFL scoring in 2016 were Kickers.

FG's happen and NFL defenses find ways to make it more difficult to score TD's on a shorter field, so its really not that surprising that kickers are making 25-40 FG's a season. With a good defense, you can take multiple FG's and win games instead of gambling on 4th and goal and getting nothing like KC and CIN have done the past couple weeks.

Have to win the turnover battle with the Lions and get pressure on Stafford and take whatever points they can. Hopefully TD's, but 3 counts too.

You say that like its surprising. This is typical of any NFL season, pretty much regardless of era. Were basically at a point where the players are going to have to overcome Haley's ineptitude to become good in the red zone. We need the redzone efficiency even more than usual because the big plays just havent been coming, and that used to help us make up for the lack of red zone scoring

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Overall i like the matchup against the Lions as well. But theres one major variable that could throw a wrench into the whole thing: Ben sucks on the road. Good DB's and pass rushers. I hope Gilbert is back for this one

[polamalubeast]

Overall i like the matchup against the Lions as well. But theres one major variable that could throw a wrench into the whole thing: Ben sucks on the road. Good DB's and pass rushers. I hope Gilbert is back for this one

With the way that Bell and our defense are playing right now, Ben just needs to do what he did against Baltimore and KC and it should be enough

And Ben is much better on the road that at home this year too(passing rating of 75.1 at home,88.2 on the road)

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...0/splits/2017/

[Psycho Ward 86]

With the way that Bell and our defense are playing right now, Ben just needs to do what he did against Baltimore and KC and it should be enough

And Ben is much better on the road that at home this year too(passing rating of 75.1 at home,88.2 on the road)

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...0/splits/2017/

A negligible improvement from the past 2 seasons. He's been pedestrian all around with the exception of a handful of vintage Ben throws per game. Hes going to need to have a couple of team-carrying games if we want the playoffs to go through us: http://www.nfl.com/player/benroethli...tuationalstats

[ALLD]

Ben will get better as the season progresses and the team gels as long as he has time like he had this week. He did not hold onto the ball too much either.

Going back 3 weeks most here said we needed more run game. Hand the ball to Bell and magic happens. Even Conner did well and he should have closed out the 4th to give Bell a break.

[polamalubeast]

A negligible improvement from the past 2 seasons. He's been pedestrian all around with the exception of a handful of vintage Ben throws per game. Hes going to need to have a couple of team-carrying games if we want the playoffs to go through us: http://www.nfl.com/player/benroethli...tuationalstats

The only team in the AFC against which he will have to be amazing is against the pats and it will take a team effort to beat the pats

For the rest, no team scares me in the AFC,the steelers have the number of the chiefs (in Pittsburgh or in KC) in the Andy Reid / Alex Smith era.

[Psycho Ward 86]

Connor seems to have been excellent spelling Bell on what few carries he's gotten all season.
I think he ought to be getting at least double the carries he's getting now. I get the whole limiting his playing time because he needs to improve his pass blocking thing but if the other team knows were just going to run all day why not give it to them with some fresh legs? Lest we forget Bell pretty much has never finished a full season healthy.

These positional "speciality" roles are so damn stupid too. Watson becoming the 3rd and short specialist was just really strange. Nothing against Watson, hes earned his roster spot. Thats such a nuanced situation to be used for exclusively, about as dumb as when some fans that thought Justin Hunter might become a cute red zone weapon. Hopefully Tomlin/Haley dont go Larry Johnson on Bell's career. I understand the need to lean on the run, but Connor has earned carries.

[AtlantaDan]

Hopefully Tomlin/Haley dont go Larry Johnson on Bell's career. I understand the need to lean on the run, but Connor has earned carries.

Agreed Tomlin may be running the wheels off Bell, which caught up with the Steelers in January last season. I also would like to see more Conner.

But when you have someone working on a one year contract rather than the first year of a long term deal, where you would have provided a big signing bonus that would be significant dead money under the cap if Bell is burned out quickly, the financial incentives not to wear him out obviously are different.

It's a business decision

[Psycho Ward 86]

Agreed Tomlin may be running the wheels off Bell, which caught up with the Steelers in January last season. I also would like to see more Conner.

But when you have someone working on a one year contract rather than the first year of a long term deal, where you would have provided a big signing bonus that would be significant dead money under the cap if Bell is burned out quickly, the financial incentives not to wear him out obviously are different.

It's a business decision

Im not sure I follow this logic. Its been my understanding that it would be mutually beneficial to the Steelers and Bell if his touches dont fly off the charts. Bell hasnt made it through any of his 4 years in the league without a major injury, pretty much all of them having major repercussions on how our season went. History says it will happen again (maybe even if we give him some breathers, but most definitely if we put him in Larry Johnson territory). Time to buck the trend

[GBMelBlount]

Ben will get better as the season progresses and the team gels as long as he has time like he had this week.

He did not hold onto the ball too much either.

Going back 3 weeks most here said we needed more run game. Hand the ball to Bell and magic happens. Even Conner did well and he should have closed out the 4th to give Bell a break.

Yes!

[AtlantaDan]

Im not sure I follow this logic. Its been my understanding that it would be mutually beneficial to the Steelers and Bell if his touches dont fly off the charts. Bell hasnt made it through any of his 4 years in the league without a major injury, pretty much all of them having major repercussions on how our season went. History says it will happen again (maybe even if we give him some breathers, but most definitely if we put him in Larry Johnson territory). Time to buck the trend

If you are not going to meet his price and at best you can afford to franchise him for one more year in 2018 why would the Steelers care whether his performance falls off the cliff after that. There obviously has been other drama since Bell reported, but the Steelers leaking their offer for which they thought they had a deal was an indication the contract negotiations were pretty acrimonious. That made a long term deal in 2018 less likely even without Bell reaffirming his greatness the past several weeks to increase his market value.

As you note about injuries, only last season could arguably be tied to overwork - Bell injured his foot in preseason his rookie year, had his knee taken out by the Bengals on a reception across the middle at the end of the 2014 season, and had Burfict take him out in week 8 in 2015 - he could go at any time even if you put him on a pitch count for number of carries.

So given how quickly backs go out of the league in today's NFL getting what you can out of Bell while you can is very defensible - not having a long term investment in him is a further incentive to do so

[st33lersguy]

Detroit is beatable, but they are good enough to where we shouldn't expect this to be easy. Even playing a non-conference game up 2.5 games in the division this is still important to keep up with the Chiefs and the Cheats for a bye

[AtlantaDan]

Detroit is beatable, but they are good enough to where we shouldn't expect this to be easy. Even playing a non-conference game up 2.5 games in the division this is still important to keep up with the Chiefs and the Cheats for a bye

Lions coming off a bye week allows them to heal up and Stafford will be a test for the pass defense - Lions #8 in points scored per game

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/det/detroit-lions

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

You say that like its surprising. This is typical of any NFL season, pretty much regardless of era. Were basically at a point where the players are going to have to overcome Haley's ineptitude to become good in the red zone. We need the redzone efficiency even more than usual because the big plays just havent been coming, and that used to help us make up for the lack of red zone scoring

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Its not surprising, but a lot of Steeler fans will look at Boswell kicking 30FG this season and say ....."we left 120 points on the field this season", rather than appreciate that kicking FG's is part of winning in the NFL.

[86WARD]

Its not surprising, but a lot of Steeler fans will look at Boswell kicking 30FG this season and say ....."we left 120 points on the field this season", rather than appreciate that kicking FG's is part of winning in the NFL.

I am one of those people. I look at FGs in the red zone as a step closer to a loss. I love Boswell...have since day one, but I’m definitely an “antifieldgoalite.” Sure I like them when they win the game, but other than that...I don’t want them...lol.

[AtlantaDan]

Steelers now #30 in 2017 red zone drives resulting in TDs (42%)

Rate of 23% at Heinz

Conversion rate for past three seasons was 54% (2016), 57% (2015), and 51% (2014)

Rank #17 in points per game (21)

Points per game ranking in previous seasons was #12 - 24.4 ppg (2016), #7 - 25.4 ppg (2015), and #7 - 26.6 ppg (2014)

https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/sta...ne-scoring-pct
https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/points-per-game

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

I am one of those people. I look at FGs in the red zone as a step closer to a loss. I love Boswell...have since day one, but I’m definitely an “antifieldgoalite.” Sure I like them when they win the game, but other than that...I don’t want them...lol.

OK, so you are OK with FG if the Steelers win the game, because you know the outcome from what you are saying. Steelers coaches don't have the luxury of knowing the future and sometimes when you have a 12 point lead or 4 points and have confidence in your defense, you play for the FG and don't think of it as leaving points on the field. I just don't understand why the hate for 3 points, when its part of the game and often part of getting the win, because the other team is trying pretty hard to prevent TD's too.

[teegre]

re: FGs vs TDs

There’s a reason that Georgia Tech’s all-time leading scorer (Harrison Butker) went undrafted... while Megatron went third overall.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

re: FGs vs TDs

There’s a reason that Georgia Tech’s all-time leading scorer (Harrison Butker) went undrafted... while Megatron went third overall.

True. I guess Calvin Johnson and Adam Vinitieri can talk about draft positions and Super Bowl rings the next time they meet up.

[teegre]

True. I guess Calvin Johnson and Adam Vinitieri can talk about draft positions and Super Bowl rings the next time they meet up.

Likewise, so can Bubby Brister and Dan Marino.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Likewise, so can Bubby Brister and Dan Marino.

Yes, but you know who accounted for career points in the NFL don't you?

[Moose]

Yes, its always better if you can get TD's instead of FG's, but do you know how many of the top 30 players in scoring last year were position players?? Only 3. Yes, 27 of the top 30 in NFL scoring in 2016 were Kickers.

FG's happen and NFL defenses find ways to make it more difficult to score TD's on a shorter field, so its really not that surprising that kickers are making 25-40 FG's a season. With a good defense, you can take multiple FG's and win games instead of gambling on 4th and goal and getting nothing like KC and CIN have done the past couple weeks.

Have to win the turnover battle with the Lions and get pressure on Stafford and take whatever points they can. Hopefully TD's, but 3 counts too.

As you said in your beginning sentence..."it's alway's better to get TD's instead of FG's". Now as far as the rest, who cares about the 'top' scorers ? That has nothing to do with our STEELER's and the possibility of LOSING a game because of scoring FG instead of TD's. Come on man, do the math. Opponent scores 1 TD and you score 2 FG's, guess what ? You lose ! Sure if it's 4th down and long, BUT you are in FG range you go for the 3. But, if you are in the red zone and you just moved the ball with no problems all the way down the field, as we did against cincy, you have to get a TD. We beat cincy sure, but that game was never in the bag until at the end when Dalton decided to toss the ball on 4th down to the upper seats. Where as, if we would have put a few of those 5 FGs into 7pts, that game would have been done by 3rd qtr. You are not going to win a bunch of games scoring just FG's while opponent scores TD's. PLUS, don't you think the player's themselves would like to put it in the endzone after all the work getting there ? I'm sure they really don't like settling for 3's. Granted, it's great to have the Boss tacking the points when needed, but I'm telling you to compete with the real good teams, and to win in post season play, and win a SB...you better get some plays working that will hammer you TD's !

[polamalubeast]

Of course, I'd like the steelers to score more TD than FG, but an FG is better than a punt or a turnover.

The steelers would have won the game in Chicago with more FG.

[Moose]

I am one of those people. I look at FGs in the red zone as a step closer to a loss. I love Boswell...have since day one, but I’m definitely an “antifieldgoalite.” Sure I like them when they win the game, but other than that...I don’t want them...lol.

Can't agree more !!!! I'd like to see some slants, QB sneek ( hell, Ben could fall forward for 3 ft), etc.,etc.. Tell Haley to watch some other games and see what they do...even college games.....LOL.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

As you said in your beginning sentence..."it's alway's better to get TD's instead of FG's". Now as far as the rest, who cares about the 'top' scorers ? That has nothing to do with our STEELER's and the possibility of LOSING a game because of scoring FG instead of TD's. Come on man, do the math. Opponent scores 1 TD and you score 2 FG's, guess what ? You lose ! Sure if it's 4th down and long, BUT you are in FG range you go for the 3. But, if you are in the red zone and you just moved the ball with no problems all the way down the field, as we did against cincy, you have to get a TD. We beat cincy sure, but that game was never in the bag until at the end when Dalton decided to toss the ball on 4th down to the upper seats. Where as, if we would have put a few of those 5 FGs into 7pts, that game would have been done by 3rd qtr. You are not going to win a bunch of games scoring just FG's while opponent scores TD's. PLUS, don't you think the player's themselves would like to put it in the endzone after all the work getting there ? I'm sure they really don't like settling for 3's. Granted, it's great to have the Boss tacking the points when needed, but I'm telling you to compete with the real good teams, and to win in post season play, and win a SB...you better get some plays working that will hammer you TD's !

Everybody knows that its better to score TD's than FG's. I have been a Steeler fan for over 35 years and completed calculus courses, so I get the math of 7-3 and understand how it relates to football.

I just don't understand all the bitching and whining of fans, when the Steelers get 2 trip to the red zone and come away with 10 points.....all the comments are "we left 4 points on the field", etc. I wonder if those fans think that the Steelers coaches are not trying to score TD's?? Are they intentionally trying to call plays that will not score TD's, or telling the O line to not block everybody?

If Ben throws for 3TD's and we run in 2 TD's and win this week, then great. If Boswell kicks 5 FG's and the Steelers win, then that counts as a W too and I will enjoy it.....but I guess some cant.

[tube517]

Everybody knows that its better to score TD's than FG's. I have been a Steeler fan for over 35 years and completed calculus courses, so I get the math of 7-3 and understand how it relates to football.

I just don't understand all the bitching and whining of fans, when the Steelers get 2 trip to the red zone and come away with 10 points.....all the comments are "we left 4 points on the field", etc. I wonder if those fans think that the Steelers coaches are not trying to score TD's?? Are they intentionally trying to call plays that will not score TD's, or telling the O line to not block everybody?

If Ben throws for 3TD's and we run in 2 TD's and win this week, then great. If Boswell kicks 5 FG's and the Steelers win, then that counts as a W too and I will enjoy it.....but I guess some cant.

I admit I get frustrated when we get FGs instead of TDs. I did miss 3/4 of the Bengals game and followed the score on my phone (I couldn't get a good feed where I was at so I couldn't watch).

I was very happy that we were winning and maintaining the lead.

i'm getting too old to worry about how we win.

Maybe I need to just shut off the TV.

[Born2Steel]

The entire point of the FG vs TD discussion is not about wins and losses, but the fact that we are having big issues getting into the endzone. Everybody on here would rather have the W, however it happens. That's not even a valid bullet point. This team, this offense rather, has had a very hard time scoring TDs this season. That's just a fact. Thank goodness we do have Boz that can get us the FGs when we do fail to get into the endzone. Anyone disagree with that? If it's not personnel, if it's not playcalling, if it's not getting out played in short yardage/goal-line situations, then what exactly is keeping us out of the endzone? That is really the crux of this discussion.