Bell - Steelers didn't run enough against Jags

[AtlantaDan]

Ruh-roh

Le’Veon Bell is not happy. He says it is because the Steelers lost on Sunday, but he said other things that left little doubt he was not happy with the Steelers’ game plan in their 30-9 upset loss to the Jacksonville Jaguars.

Specifically, he thinks the Steelers abandoned their running game against the worst run defense in the NFL.

“I don’t think we had enough attempts,” Bell said Monday.

Why?

“I didn’t get any explanation. I just go out there and play.”...

Was it tough running against a Jaguars defense determined to stack the line of scrimmage to stop it?

“No,’’ Bell said. “I felt there was room in there. The stats don’t really show what really happened because of the fact there were several runs where we lost yards, but I feel like we were running the ball effectively.

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201710090120

As has been posted in other threads, I think there are factions in the locker room and the frustration with how the offense is operating is about to boil over

Time for Tomlin to replay his 2008 statement when Fast Willie Parker was upset about the lack of commitment to the run?

"The issue for us has been, is and hopefully will continue to be winning -- that's my interpretation of Steelers football," .... "Every morning, I come to work I walk past five Lombardis, not five rushing titles. The issue is winning."

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/200812120151

Of course it will have to be updated to "Every morning, I come to work I walk past six Lombardis, not six rushing titles."

[fansince'76]

He's right.

[Mojouw]

I kinda want the Steelers to come out and run the ball 50 times in the next few weeks. Score about 12 points per game.

Then maybe we can stop revisiting this debate ever single week.

[AtlantaDan]

I kinda want the Steelers to come out and run the ball 50 times in the next few weeks. Score about 12 points per game.

Then maybe we can stop revisiting this debate ever single week.

Doubtful that will be Tomlin's response to Bell

[Steeldude]

I kinda want the Steelers to come out and run the ball 50 times in the next few weeks. Score about 12 points per game.

Then maybe we can stop revisiting this debate ever single week.

Or abandon the run against poor run defenses and instead throw up prayers hoping for pass interference.

[ALLD]

All those picks require more running or somebody else throwing the rock.

[st33lersguy]

Well, when you play the worst run defense and best pass defense in football, common sense tells you to run the ball more.

[Shoes]

Jaguars safety Barry Church said after Sunday’s 30-9 win over the Steelers that Pittsburgh’s offensive approach, which saw the Steelers run 20 times and drop back to pass 57 times, “played right into our hands.”

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ugh-on-sunday/

[Moose]

Well, when you play the worst run defense and best pass defense in football, common sense tells you to run the ball more.

Beautifully said ! Are our coaches really that idiotic and stupid not to figure that out, or is there something that we as fan's simply don't see. Run on bad run defense....pass on bad pass defense......DUH ! Guess we must be stupid because those high paid coaches see something that is working. LOL, yea right.

[Craic]

Yeah, well. Bells first three runs (in a row) went for a first down, then 4 yards, then -2 yards leaving the Steelers at 3rd and eight and having to throw.

Second possession, they pass a couple quick passes to Bell. Then, he comes out and runs off the left tackle for 13 yards. Great. Next run, no gain. Brant then does an end around for 13 yards. After two passes to Bell and another first down, Ben throws the INt.

Third possession. After a first down from the first pass, Bell runs for 2 yards, then 1 yard, leaving 3rd and 7. They punt.

And that's it. The fourth and fifth possessions were in the two minute offense.

With that kind of production out of our run offense, you're all telling me that we should doubled down on it in the second half? Especially ​when we were losing 20-9? Really?

[Mojouw]

Anybody count the guys the Jags had in the box on Sunday? Anyone check and see if there was single coverage against the Steelers supposedly terrifically talented wide-outs? Anyone read more or search out more regarding how many runs Ben audibled out of on Sunday?

It is the same thing after every loss and most wins. A drumbeat of internet OCs and DCs with lots of coach-speak cliches that would sound hokey and out of touch in a high school locker room - let alone a pro football setting.

Did anyone look and see what other teams did for a run pass ratio against the Jags? Anyone look at their opponents? At least two of them don't even have an NFL caliber passing offense at this point. I am not certain that the pass defense ranking was not inflated by playing the Tom Savage led Texans, whatever zombie vet is running the Jets, the Ravens, and now whatever the hell team took the field last Sunday.

I saw receivers running open and a QB missing them. I saw one pick six on a tip drill that if the QB didn't throw a shade high would have been a "splash" play. I saw another pick six on a tip drill where the QB didn't see the underneath 'backer because he was entranced by the wide open receiver behind him. I saw another INT from when a wideout fell down - had he not that play goes for 10+ yards. Am I excusing the terrible QB performance? Nope. But this is the same guy that shredded Denver's vaunted pass defense multiple times. And does everyone forget that the run/pass ratio that everyone finds so infuriating led the Steelers down the field 3 times with ease prior to the QB going color blind? What was their first half starting field position - I think it was like their own three.

What about the fact that the Texans only ran 26 times by a RB in a game they won. The Steelers ran only 6 times less in game they lost and were forced to abandon the run for a quarter and a half. In the other JAGS loss, the Jets only ran 11 more times than the Steelers in a game that featured an almost entire OT period of extra possessions. I believe the Jets got 3 possessions in that OT and ran 12 plays. I can't find drive charts right now, but I am willing to bet that at least 3 of those plays were rushes. So again, about a half dozen more rushes than the Steelers on Sunday. In a game where Pittsburgh was down by 2 scores most of the second half.

But, hey, what are facts and data when you can just sound off a tired old cliche?

Make no mistake - I am not defending the performance or the play selection or the execution on offense this past Sunday. I have repeatedly called into question Ben's reads and audibles as well as a play selection that seemed to repeatedly challenge on of the best CBs in football.

But I do think that any useful conversation, assuming folks really want to debate what actually happened and what might reasonably be done about it, needs be a dispassionate discussion of actual facts - not overly emotional perceptions.

But again, and I stress this, WTF do I know? I'm just a dude with an internet connection and a (loud) opinion?

[Shoes]

Anybody count the guys the Jags had in the box on Sunday? Anyone check and see if there was single coverage against the Steelers supposedly terrifically talented wide-outs? Anyone read more or search out more regarding how many runs Ben audibled out of on Sunday?

It is the same thing after every loss and most wins. A drumbeat of internet OCs and DCs with lots of coach-speak cliches that would sound hokey and out of touch in a high school locker room - let alone a pro football setting.

Did anyone look and see what other teams did for a run pass ratio against the Jags? Anyone look at their opponents? At least two of them don't even have an NFL caliber passing offense at this point. I am not certain that the pass defense ranking was not inflated by playing the Tom Savage led Texans, whatever zombie vet is running the Jets, the Ravens, and now whatever the hell team took the field last Sunday.

I saw receivers running open and a QB missing them. I saw one pick six on a tip drill that if the QB didn't throw a shade high would have been a "splash" play. I saw another pick six on a tip drill where the QB didn't see the underneath 'backer because he was entranced by the wide open receiver behind him. I saw another INT from when a wideout fell down - had he not that play goes for 10+ yards. Am I excusing the terrible QB performance? Nope. But this is the same guy that shredded Denver's vaunted pass defense multiple times. And does everyone forget that the run/pass ratio that everyone finds so infuriating led the Steelers down the field 3 times with ease prior to the QB going color blind? What was their first half starting field position - I think it was like their own three.

What about the fact that the Texans only ran 26 times by a RB in a game they won. The Steelers ran only 6 times less in game they lost and were forced to abandon the run for a quarter and a half. In the other JAGS loss, the Jets only ran 11 more times than the Steelers in a game that featured an almost entire OT period of extra possessions. I believe the Jets got 3 possessions in that OT and ran 12 plays. I can't find drive charts right now, but I am willing to bet that at least 3 of those plays were rushes. So again, about a half dozen more rushes than the Steelers on Sunday. In a game where Pittsburgh was down by 2 scores most of the second half.

But, hey, what are facts and data when you can just sound off a tired old cliche?

Make no mistake - I am not defending the performance or the play selection or the execution on offense this past Sunday. I have repeatedly called into question Ben's reads and audibles as well as a play selection that seemed to repeatedly challenge on of the best CBs in football.

But I do think that any useful conversation, assuming folks really want to debate what actually happened and what might reasonably be done about it, needs be a dispassionate discussion of actual facts - not overly emotional perceptions.

But again, and I stress this, WTF do I know? I'm just a dude with an internet connection and a (loud) opinion?

Facts? Ben doesn't know what the problem is, nor does anyone else on the team. We don't have the facts, none of us do, it's all guessing and meaningless opinion.

[AtlantaDan]

But I do think that any useful conversation, assuming folks really want to debate what actually happened and what might reasonably be done about it, needs be a dispassionate discussion of actual facts - not overly emotional perceptions.

But again, and I stress this, WTF do I know? I'm just a dude with an internet connection and a (loud) opinion?

I linked to quotes from Bell, not Ron Cook or Mark Madden - I would suggest his observations rise above the level of "overly emotional perceptions" since it is his job as opposed to our entertainment.

And FWIW my uninformed guess is that when the star RB is sharing something with the media he is not the only one in the locker room who thinks that, whether it is concern with Haley's play calling or Ben checking into such gems as a tough pass on 3rd and goal from the 2 to AB start the second half after someone called the two previous passes after first and goal from the 5 (on a drive where the Steelers were in the shotgun for every play). It is pretty clear that this team is comfortable with taking its concerns to the media, a practice established by the purported team leader.

If this was Ben coming off his back to back 6 TD performances against the Colts and Ravens in a 2014 season that he will never top, I would get turning him loose. But given Ben's body of work this season, if Bell is correct in saying the game plan going in was to throw rather than an on the fly adjustment to "taking what the defense gives you" that is puzzling.

Bell said the Steelers did not plan to run the ball extensively Sunday. He didn't get an explanation, didn't ask why and hasn't lobbied for carries, he said.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...nville-jaguars

Maybe Ben will clear it all up for us during his Tuesday morning radio appearance tomorrow

[Mojouw]

I linked to quotes from Bell, not Ron Cook or Mark Madden - I would suggest his observations rise above the level of "overly emotional perceptions" since it is his job as opposed to our entertainment.

And FWIW my uninformed guess is that when the star RB is sharing something with the media he is not the only one in the locker room who thinks that, whether it is concern with Haley's play calling or Ben checking into such gems as a tough pass on 3rd and goal from the 2 to AB start the second half after someone called the two previous passes after first and goal from the 5 (on a drive where the Steelers were in the shotgun for every play). It is pretty clear that this team is comfortable with taking its concerns to the media, a policy established by the purported team leader.

If this was Ben coming off his back to back 6 TD performances against the Colts and Ravens in a 2014 season that he will never top, I would get turning him loose. But given Ben's body of work this season, if Bell is correct in saying the game plan going in was to throw rather than an on the fly adjustment to "taking what the defense gives you" that is puzzling.

Bell said the Steelers did not plan to run the ball extensively Sunday. He didn't get an explanation, didn't ask why and hasn't lobbied for carries, he said.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2...nville-jaguars

Maybe Ben will clear it all up for us during his Tuesday morning radio appearance tomorrow

Right. And despite what Leveon Bell, noted deep thinker and football tactician, stated we can also see that in the Jags 2 loses the winning teams ran the ball 6-7 more times than the Steelers did. That was in the noted pass-wacky offenses of the Titans and Jets. Additionally neither of those teams were down multiple scores for the majority of the second half.

Now maybe they got away with it because the Jags expected more runs and were victimized by the pass - where with the Steelers they were prepped for passes. I don't know?

But there is a version of this that justifies or at least explains the run/pass ration on display on Sunday.

Much of it was due to game situation as Craic laid out really clearly. The rest of it is actually in line with what other teams did in wins versus the same team.

Finally, I have repeatedly agreed with the disgust and confusion with the redzone/goal to go calls in the game. The best information that I have seen appears to indicate that Ben audibled out of multiple runs in those downs. I have also stated that perhaps Ben needs to be reined in on his play changing abilities.

Additionally, I will take Bell's comments with a grain of salt. He is both a moron and a RB - which means that he wants to run every down. Just like AB wants to pass every down. Both are star players and certain that if they just got the ball more the team would win every game.

Again, I am not saying I am right. But I am certain that the issue is more complicated than Run Ball More = Wins the Games

[AtlantaDan]

Leveon Bell, noted deep thinker and football tactician

He seems to have done fairly well in his chosen profession for a moron, even though he does not post here and his comments accordingly should be discounted. I know this is highly unlikely, but consider the wild possibility he might know more about the subject than any of us.

[teegre]

Yeah, well. Bells first three runs (in a row) went for a first down, then 4 yards, then -2 yards leaving the Steelers at 3rd and eight and having to throw.

Second possession, they pass a couple quick passes to Bell. Then, he comes out and runs off the left tackle for 13 yards. Great. Next run, no gain. Brant then does an end around for 13 yards. After two passes to Bell and another first down, Ben throws the INt.

Third possession. After a first down from the first pass, Bell runs for 2 yards, then 1 yard, leaving 3rd and 7. They punt.

And that's it. The fourth and fifth possessions were in the two minute offense.

With that kind of production out of our run offense, you're all telling me that we should doubled down on it in the second half? Especially ​when we were losing 20-9? Really?

I wonder what Fournette's runs per drive looked like. I would guess that early on, it looked a lot like Bell's... but then, he wore the Steelers down.

Much like how more than half of Kareem Hunt's yards have come in the second half of games.

[hawaiiansteeler]

I wonder what Fournette's runs per drive looked like. I would guess that early on, it looked a lot like Bell's... but then, he wore the Steelers down.

Much like how more than half of Kareem Hunt's yards have come in the second half of games.

[Mojouw]

I wonder what Fournette's runs per drive looked like. I would guess that early on, it looked a lot like Bell's... but then, he wore the Steelers down.

Much like how more than half of Kareem Hunt's yards have come in the second half of games.

What was the score? We will never know what the true second and half plan was, as Ben almost certainly lit that thing on fire with his turnovers.


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[teegre]

What was the score? We will never know what the true second and half plan was, as Ben almost certainly lit that thing on fire with his turnovers.


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The Steelers were up 9-6... but then, Ben started and voila! it was 9-20.

[Born2Steel]

What was the score? We will never know what the true second and half plan was, as Ben almost certainly lit that thing on fire with his turnovers.


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Once it was 20-9, the Jags decided not to be the SB Falcons, and used the clock wisely.

[AtlantaDan]

We will never know what the true second and half plan was, as Ben almost certainly lit that thing on fire with his turnovers.

The opening drive of the second half when the Steelers were down by 1 point may give some hints

15 plays - all in the shotgun - open with 4 straight passes/end with 4 straight passes - 12 passes/3 runs

• 1st and 10 at PIT 25
  
  (15:00 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to J.James to PIT 30 for 5 yards (A.Colvin; M.Jack).
  
• 2nd and 5 at PIT 30
  
  (14:28 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to L.Bell to PIT 39 for 9 yards (M.Jack).
• 1st and 10 at PIT 39
  
  (13:52 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to M.Bryant to PIT 41 for 2 yards (A.Colvin).
• 2nd and 8 at PIT 41
  
  (13:25 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep left to A.Brown [C.Campbell]. PENALTY on JAX-C.Campbell, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at PIT 41 - No Play.
• 2nd and 3 at PIT 46
  
  (13:20 - 3rd) (Shotgun) L.Bell right guard to JAX 47 for 7 yards (M.Jack; A.Jones).
• 1st and 10 at JAX 47
  
  (12:39 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to M.Bryant to JAX 38 for 9 yards (T.Gipson).
• 2nd and 1 at JAX 38
  
  (12:05 - 3rd) (Shotgun) L.Bell right tackle to JAX 39 for -1 yards (T.Smith).
• (11:38 - 3rd) Timeout #1 by JAX at 11:38.
• 3rd and 2 at JAX 39
  
  (11:38 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to A.Brown to JAX 35 for 4 yards (J.Ramsey).
• 1st and 10 at JAX 35
  
  (10:58 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to A.Brown. Coverage 20-Ramsey.
• 2nd and 10 at JAX 35
  
  (10:50 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to M.Bryant. PENALTY on JAX-M.Jackson, Defensive Offside, 5 yards, enforced at JAX 35 - No Play.
• 2nd and 5 at JAX 30
  
  (10:49 - 3rd) (Shotgun) L.Bell right end to JAX 15 for 15 yards (B.Church).
• 1st and 10 at JAX 15
  
  (10:16 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to J.Smith-Schuster to JAX 5 for 10 yards (T.Smith).
• 1st and Goal at JAX 5
  
  (9:40 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short right to J.Smith-Schuster.
• 2nd and Goal at JAX 5
  
  (9:37 - 3rd) (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to L.Bell to JAX 2 for 3 yards (P.Posluszny).
• 3rd and Goal at JAX 2
  
  (9:02 - 3rd) (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to A.Brown.
  
  http://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=400951655

[Mojouw]

So when were all these additional run plays supposed to go down? After they were down multiple scores and there was less than 20 minutes to play? When they ran their 4 and 2 minute offense at the end of the half?

If the offense goes run-run-pass that is too predictable. If the pass short, that isn't aggressive enough. If they pass deep that is just arrogant and Chuck and duck.

As was posted earlier, they ran, outside of the goalie, in a fairly balanced manner. Since the second half was a trash fire, there is really no point in speculation about what the game plan would've been.

I can't see drive charts on my phone. Mostly because I'm lazy, but didn't a mixed attack produce 3 long drives for points in the first half?

Turnovers and redzone NM nonsense by the veteran QB are the story here. Pure and simple.


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[Edman]

He's right. Bell was voted Team MVP for two years for a reason. He's the reason they go.

Wether we like to admit it or not, for the past few years, Le'Veon Bell was the gas that gets the Offense going, and he still is. The more he gets the ball, the better it goes. Last year's win streak and playoff run doesn't happen without Bell running like a madman. How good would the Greatest Show On Turf would've been if they didn't have Marshall Faulk?

Bell is their strength, and Haley outsmarted himself...yet again.

Run the fucking ball. Bell, Conner, Watson whoever. Run the damn ball.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

But if they run more.....isn't that Cowherball??

[AtlantaDan]

So when were all these additional run plays supposed to go down?

Maybe 1st and goal from the 5 to start the second half? Or on the next two drives?

When the roof fell in the first pick six (second drive of half) was on 2nd down after an incomplete pass on first down

The second pick six on the third drive of the second half was a six play drive - 5 passes

By my count the Steelers ran 23 plays on those three possessions to start the second half - 4 running plays/19 passes

http://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=400951655

[teegre]

Turnovers and redzone NM nonsense by the veteran QB are the story here. Pure and simple.

Indeed.

If the Steelers has gotten one or the other, the game is entirely different.

Better red-zone efficiency:
The Steelers score 21 points, and are only down by 2 with a half to play. The Jags would still have 23, but in this scenario, Fournette’s final run wouldn’t have occurred, because the defense wouldn’t have sold out.

No turnovers:
The Jags only have 3 points. Their first three TDs cake off of turnovers (and, again, in this scenario, Fournette doesn’t get that long run).

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

Indeed.

If the Steelers has gotten one or the other, the game is entirely different.

Better red-zone efficiency:
The Steelers score 21 points, and are only down by 2 with a half to play. The Jags would still have 23, but in this scenario, Fournette’s final run wouldn’t have occurred, because the defense wouldn’t have sold out.

No turnovers:
The Jags only have 3 points. Their first three TDs cake off of turnovers (and, again, in this scenario, Fournette doesn’t get that long run).

True, but what about the other side of the ball where the Jags handed off the ball 12 consecutive times and the run defense looked helpless?

In the 2 Steeler losses, the opposition used the formula of "run the football and stop the run" to defeat the Steelers. It would appear the Steelers need to be able to do the same and it appears they cant stop the run.

[teegre]

True, but what about the other side of the ball where the Jags handed off the ball 12 consecutive times and the run defense looked helpless?

In the 2 Steeler losses, the opposition used the formula of "run the football and stop the run" to defeat the Steelers. It would appear the Steelers need to be able to do the same and it appears they cant stop the run.

True... the Jags ran the ball 12 straight times, but only got 3 points.

Yes, in the grand scheme of things, the run defense needs to improve, but for this particular game, BB gifting the opposition 21 points is the bigger concern.

[El-Gonzo Jackson]

True... the Jags ran the ball 12 straight times, but only got 3 points.

Yes, in the grand scheme of things, the run defense needs to improve, but for this particular game, BB gifting the opposition 21 points is the bigger concern.

Yes, Steelers need to run the ball and stop the run, despite some fans needing Ben and AB's fantasy points.

[Born2Steel]

True... the Jags ran the ball 12 straight times, but only got 3 points.

Yes, in the grand scheme of things, the run defense needs to improve, but for this particular game, BB gifting the opposition 21 points is the bigger concern.

This is pretty much why this game irked me so much. It's not that we lost, or how we lost, but that we played the dumbest game we could have imagined. IMO, our gameplan should have been to run the ball 75% of the time. To play the field position/game clock chess match. The short passes and runs were working, and then we started chunking it like we just got impatient. We played right into their strength. Like you say, it's ok that we struggled against the run in the big picture, but in this game, down 21pts, you cannot struggle against the run. However, we put ourselves in that position by dumb plays. The Jags stuck with their game plan and they won.