Something to Think About

[Mojouw]

Team did not routinely stand for the anthem prior to 2009.

http://dailysnark.com/nfl-teams-didn...l-anthem-2009/

After 2009, the practice became "standard" because the league was getting paid for it. So this totally non-political symbol (the flag) and song (the anthem) that everyone says should be kept out of politics, was inserted into politics using tax-payer money by the Pentagon and the National Guard.

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-pat...y-new-practice

Prior to these "paid patriotism" displays, teams were only on the field for the anthem during select games and occasions, which is why we all remember the anthem being periodically televised, but not every time in years past. Because mostly, the anthem was conducted to empty sidelines as the teams were in the locker room. Saying nothing of the fans in the beer lines and bathrooms.

Again, I want to stress that while I am certain my opinion on all this is no mystery - I am not trying to tell anyone how to feel or react. What I am trying to do is provide facts and context for the discussion. Frankly I am more angry over both sides (this is meant to be in regards to the world at large, not this forum - things have been pretty good here!) constant inability to acknowledge facts and basic principles. Instead, the narrative is warped and twisted to fit the needs of the situation at hand.

[Born2Steel]

The anger directed at kneeling/sitting during the anthem is not because of history. It's a participation, love it or leave it, core belief in patriotism. However, this is not even the issue behind players kneeling/sitting. They are protesting the violation of basic human rights. Something every American should be against as Americans. What totally baffles me is how so much emphasis is being put on what the protesters are doing instead of why they're doing it. No wonder we such a problem putting things into context.

I can't even begin to tell how many times I have stood for the anthem at a stadium before a game. Most times, bordering on almost always, there is a group of folks chatting away during the entire thing. There are always players doing other things during the anthem, usually getting game ready. Never has anyone said those players should be fired before now. Never has anyone told those groups to shut up and respect the flag during the anthem. This argument is very hypocritical at best.

[Steelerschik]

The anger directed at kneeling/sitting during the anthem is not because of history. It's a participation, love it or leave it, core belief in patriotism. However, this is not even the issue behind players kneeling/sitting. They are protesting the violation of basic human rights. Something every American should be against as Americans. What totally baffles me is how so much emphasis is being put on what the protesters are doing instead of why they're doing it. No wonder we such a problem putting things into context.

I can't even begin to tell how many times I have stood for the anthem at a stadium before a game. Most times, bordering on almost always, there is a group of folks chatting away during the entire thing. There are always players doing other things during the anthem, usually getting game ready. Never has anyone said those players should be fired before now. Never has anyone told those groups to shut up and respect the flag during the anthem. This argument is very hypocritical at best.

And there is my biggest problem right there. Who it's coming from. The biggest hypocrite yelling "RESPECT" is the most disrespectful of everyone. His vile, crude disrespect for women in particular takes it to a whole other level for me personally, but he dodges the draft, he calls people names and he's putting political BS into an entertainment pass time. Run the country, do your job, worry about the recent hurricane victims left with nothing and NK with their nukes. Perhaps all those Steelers "fans" should be donating their clothing to those people who lost everything instead of trying to get their 15 minutes of tough guy by burning them. I will always stand for the anthem/country, but will never stand for him. My vent, my views, my rights (so far).

[steelreserve]

First of all, I call BS on the 2009 argument. Maybe it wasn't "expected" or enforced by rule, but it's always been pretty much just what people do. At least since the early '80s, which is what I can attest to personally, and probably much longer. I mean, there were Marines with flags and everything, sometimes a fighter jet or two flying over, you name it, and all well before some advertising deal in 2009.

In general, it was understood among everyone - including the players - that the decent thing to do is just take a minute to reflect on the positive things that contributed to you being here and participating in this sporting event, whether as a player or a spectator. And unless you really have something more important to do, not doing it makes you a dick. The teams did it too in pretty much every sporting event I can remember - baseball, football, basketball, hockey ... football may have been the only one where they didn't make a point of doing it in an organized fashion, but in general I remember them doing it.

It's not like nobody participated in it before, and then in 2009 the NFL signed an advertising deal and everyone said "holy shit, now that THAT happened, the national anthem is way more important, let's get really into it, and fuck anyone who doesn't go along!" Total bullshit cherry-picked argument with the intention (as usual with the left) of making those who disagree seem ignorant and gullible. But - nope, that's not what actually, you know ... happened.

The anger directed at kneeling/sitting during the anthem is not because of history. It's a participation, love it or leave it, core belief in patriotism. However, this is not even the issue behind players kneeling/sitting. They are protesting the violation of basic human rights. Something every American should be against as Americans. What totally baffles me is how so much emphasis is being put on what the protesters are doing instead of why they're doing it. No wonder we such a problem putting things into context.

It's that way because they are protesting by being rude to another group of people who have nothing to do with what is being protested.

As I said in the other thread, what if I tried to make my point about some unrelated subject by protesting Martin Luther King Day? Even if my cause has nothing to do putting down Martin Luther King Jr., I just pissed everyone off by being rude about an event that holds an important meaning. "But Martin Luther King fought and even died for human rights and our right to protest peacefully." Same argument, right? Whoops, guess it doesn't look so good anymore.

[Born2Steel]

First of all, I call BS on the 2009 argument. Maybe it wasn't "expected" or enforced by rule, but it's always been pretty much just what people do. At least since the early '80s, which is what I can attest to personally, and probably much longer. I mean, there were Marines with flags and everything, sometimes a fighter jet or two flying over, you name it, and all well before some advertising deal in 2009.

In general, it was understood among everyone - including the players - that the decent thing to do is just take a minute to reflect on the positive things that contributed to you being here and participating in this sporting event, whether as a player or a spectator. And unless you really have something more important to do, not doing it makes you a dick. The teams did it too in pretty much every sporting event I can remember - baseball, football, basketball, hockey ... football may have been the only one where they didn't make a point of doing it in an organized fashion, but in general I remember them doing it.

It's not like nobody participated in it before, and then in 2009 the NFL signed an advertising deal and everyone said "holy shit, now that THAT happened, the national anthem is way more important, let's get really into it, and fuck anyone who doesn't go along!" Total bullshit cherry-picked argument with the intention (as usual with the left) of making those who disagree seem ignorant and gullible. But - nope, that's not what actually, you know ... happened.




It's that way because they are protesting by being rude to another group of people who have nothing to do with what is being protested.

As I said in the other thread, what if I tried to make my point about some unrelated subject by protesting Martin Luther King Day? Even if my cause has nothing to do putting down Martin Luther King Jr., I just pissed everyone off by being rude about an event that holds an important meaning. "But Martin Luther King fought and even died for human rights and our right to protest peacefully." Same argument, right? Whoops, guess it doesn't look so good anymore.

Guess I missed the point of this then. This makes zero sense to me. What if I hypothetically made up a different hypothetical analogy?

[steelreserve]

Guess I missed the point of this then. This makes zero sense to me. What if I hypothetically made up a different hypothetical analogy?

It's OK, given your original point of view, I wouldn't expect that to make sense to you. That's what happens when you contradict a liberal point of view - Fa-WHOOSH!

[Born2Steel]

It's OK, given your original point of view, I wouldn't expect that to make sense to you. That's what happens when you contradict a liberal point of view - Fa-WHOOSH!

I am definitely not a liberal. But I do appreciate the label since I didn't have one before.

[Mojouw]

The point of the 2009 date is not that anthems and ceremonies were not happening prior to games. They happened prior to the start of almost all sporting events. I don't think that was ever up for debate. Sometimes those would involve honor guards from the military, police, and/or local fire departments. Sometimes it would be another civic organization. Maybe a few jets from a local NG unit are involved. What have you.

These were not unified, official league policy AND foregrounded on live HD television broadcasts until the NFL was paid for it. Then we all saw it at the top of every national broadcast. I've watched almost every single Steelers television broadcast since roughly the Bubby Brister era and sometimes I've seen an anthem and sometimes I've have not.

I mean this is a fact. It really can not be debated. The NFL acknowledges it. The Pentagon acknowledges it. I don't see how this is liberal "spin"? I don't see it as an attempt to make anyone feel dumb or wrong. Just to point out that everything is politics. Nothing done in the public eye is apolitical. Those SOBs have their fingers in everything!

[teegre]

Let me get this straight...

Teams being on the field for the Anthem started in 2009.

Pffft... thanks, Obama!!!

[43Hitman]

Let me get this straight...

Teams being on the field for the Anthem started in 2009.

Pffft... thanks, Obama!!!

I honestly thought the Anthem thing with players on the field started right after 9-11-01.


If that's true then ​Pfft....thanks, Bush!!!!

[86WARD]

Again, it’s pointless to be playing the anthem before sporting events to start with.

[Dwinsgames]

is it Hockey season yet ?

doubt we have these issues then

[Mach1]