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Thread: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    This is coming from a 57 year-old who served ten years in the United States Army:

    I find it distasteful when people or groups use the US Flag, or disrespect the National Anthem. As a born-and-raised Baltimorean, I also do not like the shouting of "O!" as is often done. When I attend a professional sports event, I stand, doff my cap (if worn), place my hand over my heart and face the flag during the NA. When finished, although really "against the rules", I snap a quick hand salute in deference to duty long past.

    Having said that, while I believe other forms of protest are better suited than not honoring the flag or anthem, this is the United States of America. Now, had Goodell made it mandatory to stand immediately post-Kap, as a business the NFL would have had the right to do so. But President Trump escalated the magnitude with his rhetoric. Had he merely stated he wished the players showed respect to the flag and anthem, no more might have occurred. But calling certain NFL players SOB's and stating they should be fired polarized what was a few players into a league-wide stance of brotherhood. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

    Having said all that...I would not want to have been the Steeler who told Villaneuva he better not go out the tunnel alone and stand at attention during the NA. You would have seen the football player disappear and the Ranger emerge in a New York second.

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Can you imagine what would happen around here if James Harrison knelt during an anthem? What if he was wearing a Lambert throwback?
    Further... what if, at the same time, Kordell was standing and wearing a Jarvis Jones jersey???

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    So if we look at some actual honest and transparent reporting and not some sensationalized tweets and out of context quotes, the whole thing seems to be fairly easy to understand and not that big of a deal.

    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/09...ootball-games/

    Players voted between two options. The option to stay in the tunnel to avoid the appearance of a split team was narrowly approved. AV was always going to be set apart from any decision the team made. The other 52 players understand and accept that. It appears that AV understands and accepts that. It is almost like 5 dozen guys talked it out and came up with a compromise (flawed perhaps) that allowed them to move on with their work.

    "According to Klinger, it was understood that Alejandro Villanueva would be an accepted exception regardless of what decision was made. “Al was cool with it, with whatever we went through”, Chris Hubbard said. “He was on board”."
    I read that Harrison and Tomlin thought it was going to be 100% of the team waiting in the locker room.

    that allowed them to move on with their work
    The best way to do that would be doing what they have done since 1933. That being, stand for the anthem and get to work. I hope the NFL fines them all.

    So they were protesting Trump? Are they still doing it? Did they march after the game? Hold any protests? Nope. They went home and forgot all about Trump...until next week's game.

    Btw, I think the Steelers forgot the work part of the equation ; )
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    At West Point they don't make decisions to dishonor the American flag.
    I posted in the soapbox forum, in response to your post about AV being a hero and Tomlin just being involved in a game, about how this might not be as clear cut a case of AV being in the right as I initially thought yesterday before reading about the process that resulted in the decision not to appear on the sideline for the anthem - no need to reprint that here.

    Being part of a unit requires commitment to the unit that sometimes forces individuals to face unpleasant options where their beliefs conflict with the decision of the unit. They then need to decide whether their individual beliefs should prevail - my reference to West Point was to make the point that under most circumstances the military more than many civilian organizations does not encourage opt-outs to follow whatever you personally deem to be best - no surprise there since lives literally can be at stake. AV was trained in that environment. What is unclear is whether or not it was understood AV would not be bound to follow the vote of the players not to appear for the anthem.

    As for the decision to stay in the locker room until after the anthem was played, that is how the NFL operated for years - there was no requirement to be on the sidelines for the anthem - was that dishonoring the flag?

    The point I am trying to make is these are tough calls for everyone (owners/players/coaches) and nobody holds a monopoly on virtue in this.


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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    I read that Harrison and Tomlin thought it was going to be 100% of the team waiting in the locker room.
    The only places I have read that anyone, including Tomlin and Harrison, were surprised by AV's actions are in articles that clearly have an intentional bias. The two pieces I have seen today, including the Steelers Depot article, that are kinda Dragnet style "just the facts, ma'am" -- are pretty clear that everyone gets that AV is kinda a man apart on this specific issue.

    I can't find it now, but I have seen multiple AV quotes in the past year or so where he expresses support for anyone's choice to engage in anthem protests, but that he won't do it and doesn't personally agree with it.

    But both of those calm and reasoned response to the issue don't generate headlines and page views, so all we get is that there is some locker-room controversy. Doesn't seem that way at all...but the media just makes up what it wants from both sides.

    EDIT
    Just to kinda highlight my point about the reporting, or lack thereof - take a look at what is being said most places about the Steelers and Tomlin versus what those of us who obsessively follow the team know to be true.

    Most national outlets have it that Tomlin made a decision and Tomlin was keeping his team off the field. Based on all Steelers focused reporting, after coaches met with the team, the players and the players only hashed it out. Tomlin didn't even know what was going to happen until gameday. But that is a level of nuance and journalism that doesn't fit in a 140 character tweet, so it gets changed into a head coach deciding what 50 some grown men are going to do and that one of them is starting a controversy by doing something different. Now 24 or so hours later, we get the real story and we find that the coaching staff and ownership allowed several dozen grown men to discuss a complex emotional issue and reach some sort of compromise solution. Additionally, these men were able to separate the lived experience of one of their teammates in a simple and straightforward fashion that the media and outsiders can not even begin to imagine.

    Now, if the media can screw up reporting something this cut and dry, no wonder we can't have national conversations on any real issue without "fake news" and "Hitler!" being the opening salvos. We can't even be given the "straight facts" by those we entrust to deliver them. If we are starting the conversation from an under-informed position, there is really no hope.

    Apologies for hijacking this to go on a rant about media and news coverage, but I think it is really important. Every issue that people seem to feel passionately about lately, is being corrupted and twisted by the politicos and the media. For instance, and I really really don't want to open this can of worms, but how can we have a conversation about the national debt if we, as Americans, can't even agree on the basic economic facts of the debt and what debt does to large-scale national economies?

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    I read that Harrison and Tomlin thought it was going to be 100% of the team waiting in the locker room.



    The best way to do that would be doing what they have done since 1933. That being, stand for the anthem and get to work. I hope the NFL fines them all.

    So they were protesting Trump? Are they still doing it? Did they march after the game? Hold any protests? Nope. They went home and forgot all about Trump...until next week's game.

    Btw, I think the Steelers forgot the work part of the equation ; )
    MAJOR understatement. I'm staying quite the optimist though because I enjoy self-torment. Even though we lost last season, as usual, to the Pats in the AFCCG, we got there after an atrocious start to the season. I'm calling SB this year. Yes, I said it. I know they don't look great now, but they will by December. At least I hope, I mean I'm wishing cause I hate being wrong.

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    I read that Harrison and Tomlin thought it was going to be 100% of the team waiting in the locker room.



    The best way to do that would be doing what they have done since 1933. That being, stand for the anthem and get to work. I hope the NFL fines them all.

    So they were protesting Trump? Are they still doing it? Did they march after the game? Hold any protests? Nope. They went home and forgot all about Trump...until next week's game.

    Btw, I think the Steelers forgot the work part of the equation ; )

    Tomlin is heard on video at the PC stating 100% was what he expected ... so you read right ...

    However that was a very flawed expectation from Tomlin as AV can not turn his back on duty and a sworn oath , Tomlins expectations of such where ill advised and a lack of understanding of what it means to be a US Army Ranger reservist ( Duty calls )

    Troops learn during basic training and officer training — their first introduction to the military — about saluting when the anthem is played and the flag is raised. The ritual is referred to as the "call to colors."

    Military rules obligate servicemen and women to salute when they hear the anthem if they are in uniform. Those who happen to be in an area where the flag is being raised must salute the flag. If they don't see the flag around them, they're expected to stop and salute in the direction of the music.
    Those not wearing their uniforms must stand and place their hand over their hearts. A 2008 law clarified that service members may salute even in civilian dress.
    not understanding Patriotism , not having to work for anything other than to play the game better and not respecting our Nation , its flag or its fallen bites them in the ass every time
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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Crow-Magnon View Post
    This is coming from a 57 year-old who served ten years in the United States Army:

    I find it distasteful when people or groups use the US Flag, or disrespect the National Anthem. As a born-and-raised Baltimorean, I also do not like the shouting of "O!" as is often done. When I attend a professional sports event, I stand, doff my cap (if worn), place my hand over my heart and face the flag during the NA. When finished, although really "against the rules", I snap a quick hand salute in deference to duty long past.

    Having said that, while I believe other forms of protest are better suited than not honoring the flag or anthem, this is the United States of America. Now, had Goodell made it mandatory to stand immediately post-Kap, as a business the NFL would have had the right to do so. But President Trump escalated the magnitude with his rhetoric. Had he merely stated he wished the players showed respect to the flag and anthem, no more might have occurred. But calling certain NFL players SOB's and stating they should be fired polarized what was a few players into a league-wide stance of brotherhood. Sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.

    Having said all that...I would not want to have been the Steeler who told Villaneuva he better not go out the tunnel alone and stand at attention during the NA. You would have seen the football player disappear and the Ranger emerge in a New York second.
    Thank you for your service!!! My dad flew for the Army Air Corps and trained Tuskegee pilots to fly during WWII (I was a late surprise baby!). He's also the reason I love football and the Steelers. I miss him everyday. The Army represents some of the finest - much respect to you and all our service men/women.

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondaryconcerns View Post
    Tomlin is heard on video at the PC stating 100% was what he expected ... so you read right ...

    However that was a very flawed expectation from Tomlin as AV can not turn his back on duty and a sworn oath , Tomlins expectations of such where ill advised and a lack of understanding of what it means to be a US Army Ranger reservist ( Duty calls )



    not understanding Patriotism , not having to work for anything other than to play the game better and not respecting our Nation , its flag or its fallen bites them in the ass every time
    Yep, I believe that was in the post-game interview.

    The NFL rules states all players must be on the sideline during the anthem or they could face fines, suspensions and/or loss of draft picks.
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    Yep, I believe that was in the post-game interview.

    The NFL rules states all players must be on the sideline during the anthem or they could face fines, suspensions and/or loss of draft picks.
    Link?

    I've been through the current rules and find nothing about the anthem.

    http://operations.nfl.com/media/2646...ying-rules.pdf

    http://operations.nfl.com/the-rules/2017-nfl-rulebook/



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    I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    They said that in the pregame shows and during the game.

    As for AV being the “lone” Steelers player, he wasn’t on field and the rest of the team was directly behind him.


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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    “We didn’t want to disrespect a single soul on our team,” Heyward said. “We wanted everybody to be heard, but we wanted to show unity, solidarity. We’re just trying to make a better society.”

    Left tackle and former combat veteran Alejandro Villanueva stood at the entrance to the tunnel to the visitor’s locker room at Soldier Field with his hand on his heart as the anthem played.

    “We support Al in his decision,” guard Ramon Foster said. “We support us as a whole.”


    Added Heyward, “Al’s a hell of a man.”
    http://www.steelers.com/news/article...d-67cf9aeca465



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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondaryconcerns View Post
    Tomlin is heard on video at the PC stating 100% was what he expected ... so you read right ...

    However that was a very flawed expectation from Tomlin as AV can not turn his back on duty and a sworn oath , Tomlins expectations of such where ill advised and a lack of understanding of what it means to be a US Army Ranger reservist ( Duty calls )

    Troops learn during basic training and officer training — their first introduction to the military — about saluting when the anthem is played and the flag is raised. The ritual is referred to as the "call to colors."

    Military rules obligate servicemen and women to salute when they hear the anthem if they are in uniform. Those who happen to be in an area where the flag is being raised must salute the flag. If they don't see the flag around them, they're expected to stop and salute in the direction of the music.
    Those not wearing their uniforms must stand and place their hand over their hearts. A 2008 law clarified that service members may salute even in civilian dress.
    not understanding Patriotism , not having to work for anything other than to play the game better and not respecting our Nation , its flag or its fallen bites them in the ass every time
    Thanks for that information - one aspect of the forum I enjoy is the diversity of backgrounds that allow me to often learn something new.

    So by going into the tunnel where AV could hear the music (and apparently the flag since AV was still looking in the same direction after he exited the tunnel) his teammates placed AV in a position where he had to place his hand over his heart?

    Was there also a requirement for him to walk out of the tunnel away from his teammates so everyone could see he was placing his hand over his heart and participating in the anthem ceremony?




    This photo shows Chickillo standing with his teammates in the tunnel with his hand over his heart as well - of course if you stand in the tunnel you can still honor the flag without needing to make certain everyone sees you do it


    I am coming around to the view AV intentionally showed up his teammates after seeing the photo of Chickillo

    Interesting take by P-G reporter Ray Fittipaldo, who does not appear to be a card carrying member of Team AV on this, in today's P-G chat

    I don't know why they didn't stay in the locker room. That's where they should have stayed for the duration, and Villanueva wouldn't have had a choice. It was bad optics for him to be out there alone with the rest of his teammates standing in the tunnel....
    Stay in the locker room and tell Villanueva he had to stay in there, too. They don't have players stand on the field for the anthem for high school games. This is something the NFL started doing about 10 years ago. Just have the players stay in the locker room. It's the easy solution. Let's see if Roger Goodell is smart enough to implement it.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201709250108

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    I don't know how this could be more clear - AV did not do anything that his team-mates didn't already know about and accept in advance.

    How is that so difficult to wrap our heads around? It is almost like the Steelers are able to acknowledge and accept that there are multiple ways to respond to a situation without foaming at the mouth...

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I don't know how this could be more clear - AV did not do anything that his team-mates didn't already know about and accept in advance.

    How is that so difficult to wrap our heads around? It is almost like the Steelers are able to acknowledge and accept that there are multiple ways to respond to a situation without foaming at the mouth...
    Exactly.


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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    I am coming around to the view AV intentionally showed up his teammates after seeing the photo of Chickillo
    Wow! I think you are way off on this whole thing. It's bordering on disrespect to AV as a veteran.

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Thanks for that information - one aspect of the forum I enjoy is the diversity of backgrounds that allow me to often learn something new.

    So by going into the tunnel where AV could hear the music (and apparently the flag since AV was still looking in the same direction after he exited the tunnel) his teammates placed AV in a position where he had to place his hand over his heart?

    Was there also a requirement for him to walk out of the tunnel away from his teammates so everyone could see he was placing his hand over his heart and participating in the anthem ceremony?




    This photo shows Chickillo standing with his teammates in the tunnel with his hand over his heart as well - of course if you stand in the tunnel you can still honor the flag without needing to make certain everyone sees you do it


    I am coming around to the view AV intentionally showed up his teammates after seeing the photo of Chickillo

    Interesting take by P-G reporter Ray Fittipaldo, who does not appear to be a card carrying member of Team AV on this, in today's P-G chat

    I don't know why they didn't stay in the locker room. That's where they should have stayed for the duration, and Villanueva wouldn't have had a choice. It was bad optics for him to be out there alone with the rest of his teammates standing in the tunnel....
    Stay in the locker room and tell Villanueva he had to stay in there, too. They don't have players stand on the field for the anthem for high school games. This is something the NFL started doing about 10 years ago. Just have the players stay in the locker room. It's the easy solution. Let's see if Roger Goodell is smart enough to implement it.

    http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201709250108
    maybe I am a moron IDK but it seems to me it is your belief that AV should have to repress his feeling / ideals in order to conform with others ?

    Guessing that is not why he put his life on the line during 3 tours of duty while the ones you expect him to appease sat in a classroom learning basket weaving ....

    but I digress
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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    Wow! I think you are way off on this whole thing. It's bordering on disrespect to AV as a veteran.
    We can disagree without you going to the next level and say I am disrespecting AV.

    I think he made an unfortunate choice as to how to remain true to his beliefs, which of course does not discredit all of his accomplishments and certainly is not disrespect, assuming veterans are not immune from criticism from civilians for actions they take in civilian life.

    When you are a veteran or just a patriotic citizen you can strike a balance in honoring your country and the decisions of your co-workers.

    That includes the ability to honor the flag without opting out of the decision of his teammates not to participate in the anthem ceremony. They are his co-workers now.

    Or do you contend the only way he could honor the flag was to step away from his teammates into the sunlight where the TV cameras could get an unobstructed view?

    Steelers are going to spin this but Harrison pretty directly and Tomlin, who probably let his guard down because of frustration with both the loss as well as the anthem follies, indicated what the apparent understanding was. Now this has become a national story and I bet will be the subject of a tweet by a well known political figure.

    As I posted previously, this story started out for me as AV taking the only course of action he could - as usual this like most events is not such a clear cut matter of who is right and who is wrong.

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    We can disagree without you going to the next level and say I am disrespecting AV.

    I think he made an unfortunate choice as to how to remain true to his beliefs, which of course does not discredit all of his accomplishments and certainly is not disrespect, assuming veterans are not immune from criticism from civilians for actions they take in civilian life.

    When you are a veteran or just a patriotic citizen you can strike a balance in honoring your country and the decisions of your co-workers.

    That includes the ability to honor the flag without opting out of the decision of his teammates not to participate in the anthem ceremony. They are his co-workers now.

    Or do you contend the only way he could honor the flag was to step away from his teammates into the sunlight where the TV cameras could get an unobstructed view?

    Steelers are going to spin this but Harrison pretty directly and Tomlin, who probably let his guard down because of frustration with both the loss as well as the anthem follies, indicated what the apparent understanding was. Now this has become a national story and I bet will be the subject of a tweet by a well known political figure.

    As I posted previously, this story started out for me as AV taking the only course of action he could - as usual this like most events is not such a clear cut matter of who is right and who is wrong.

    again you expect him to conform , quite frankly I think everyone else should conform ....

    after all he is the ONE who put his life on the line , none of the rest can even begin to say that .

    I am so freaking sick of the liberal minded expecting everyone to rally around their cause and to hell with what anyone else thinks ....

    I applaud AV and I applaud it even louder if he did it intentionally , basically saying screw you , you will not define me , will not control me , will not dictate to me as I am a free man who will think for myself ..

    You should THANK me for I am the only 1 of you who had the balls to defend your right to do what you do .....

    that is what AV should tell them all

    - - - Updated - - -

    just a guess but suspect this will be merged with other thread in the soapbox sooner rather than later
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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by DesertSteel View Post
    The thumb is in a non-texting position. Just saying.
    How can you see his thumb? That is a short mangled up index finger that I see curled up, isn't it? If that is the thumb, then he's working a little facetime or skype.

    Somebody should have taken him to the ground just like they did Michael Bennett.

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondaryconcerns View Post
    maybe I am a moron IDK but it seems to me it is your belief that AV should have to repress his feeling / ideals in order to conform with others ?

    Guessing that is not why he put his life on the line during 3 tours of duty while the ones you expect him to appease sat in a classroom learning basket weaving ....

    but I digress
    LOL - so your position is Kaepernick and his fellow kneelers are bums for not suppressing their feelings/ideals in order to conform with others but with regard to AV if it feels good then do it?

    He could honor his ideals and his teammates at the same time like Chickillo did by standing in the tunnel with his teammates with his hand over his heart.

    It is not "basket weavers" (seriously?) he needs to appease. It is not showing up his teammates to look like unpatriotic louts while he stands in the bright sunshine while, as Harrison and Tomlin appear to contend, opting out of an agreement that was sealed by a vote of the team.

    AV did what he thought was in his best interests, as we all do. Whether that was in the team's best interests, which presumably should have factored into his decision despite your apparent abhorrence of anyone suppressing their "feelings," and was the only honorable choice available to him is another matter.

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    LOL - so your position is Kaepernick and his fellow kneelers are bums for not suppressing their feelings/ideals in order to conform with others but with regard to AV if it feels good then do it?

    He could honor his ideals and his teammates at the same time like Chickillo did by standing in the tunnel with his teammates with his hand over his heart.

    It is not "basket weavers" (seriously?) he needs to appease. It is not showing up his teammates to look like unpatriotic louts while he stands in the bright sunshine while, as Harrison and Tomlin appear to contend, opting out of an agreement that was sealed by a vote of the team.

    AV did what he thought was in his best interests, as we all do. Whether that was in the team's best interests, which presumably should have factored into his decision despite your apparent abhorrence of anyone suppressing their "feelings," and was the only honorable choice available to him is another matter.
    absolutely my way or the highway that is what I said alright ( rolls eyes )

    - - - Updated - - -

    prior to the game oh yeah look at me I am sitting or kneeling in protest where the whole world can see me and the camera is focused on me for my 15 mins of fame ....

    after the game gonna go home grill knock back a few beers and jump on xbox and never another thought about why they protested
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  23. #53
    Senior Member Array title="El-Gonzo Jackson has a reputation beyond repute"> El-Gonzo Jackson's Avatar

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post

    AV did what he thought was in his best interests, as we all do. Whether that was in the team's best interests, which presumably should have factored into his decision despite your apparent abhorrence of anyone suppressing their "feelings," and was the only honorable choice available to him is another matter.
    I agree with this. AV has teammates that died along side him while in duty and teammates that he goes to work with every day on the football field. Honoring one should not be done as ignoring the other and I don't have a problem with him not staying in the tunnel with his teammates. I just hope he was up front and transparent with them that he was going to do that, and not saying that he was going to do one thing and act the other.

    I also agree with former Green Beret and Seahawks long snapper Nate Boyer, that he and others fought for the freedom of speech and expression and that people such as Kaeperneck are free to protest by kneeling as is their rights.

    Still, very few see the irony that taking a knee during the anthem disrespects the military and the flag, yet belittling a veteran because he was captured and was a POW, somehow isn't as disrespectful.

  24. #54
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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    How do you tell a vet to stay in the tunnel during the anthem? It's simple. You don't. What AV has done is far bigger than football. There's not a person associated with the NFL who can tell AV what to do during the national anthem. I'm sorry, but if you think AV should have followed his teammates then you are part of the problem. Like I said, what AV did was far bigger than football. He fought for our freedom and he fought along side his brothers risking their lives. Now he plays football on Sundays and his so called brothers disrespect the flag, the country, and the president and he has to sit back and be content with that. You the real MVP AV!

  25. #55
    One bad JuJu Array title="43Hitman has a reputation beyond repute"> 43Hitman's Avatar
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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Funny, I didn't take it that way at all. I thought it was a strong statement that (1) the Steelers weren't going to get involved in the national conversation, but (2) they were also going to show respect the servicemen by having one of their own (a vet) standing at the end of the tunnel.

    For me, it was a dip of the head to those who served while staying out of everything else.
    To you yes. I work with a lot of military and ex military guys and all of them had a problem with it. All of em. They were pissed that AL stood there by himself honoring the flag, when he should of had his brothers there with him. This isn't my opinion this is the opinion of several people that I work with. Two of which are former Rangers. Very proud and patriotic men.






  26. #56
    Thread DeRailer Array title="tube517 has a reputation beyond repute"> tube517's Avatar

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/09...cipate-anthem/

    Foster Says Villanueva Had “Special Clearance” To Participate In Anthem


    The Steelers players had another closed-door meeting on Monday and are expected to meet the media when it’s over. It will be interesting to hear if Villanueva has anything to say about his Sunday actions and if indeed his teammates, or at least the team leaders, told him they were fine with him participating in the anthem on Sunday ahead of time.



  27. #57
    Senior Member Array title="Dwinsgames has a reputation beyond repute"> Dwinsgames's Avatar

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by tube517 View Post
    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/09...cipate-anthem/

    Foster Says Villanueva Had “Special Clearance” To Participate In Anthem

    again the bottom line is it doesnt matter what the team or organization said or thinks about him participating , its his Duty and obligation ( as it should be everyone's )
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  28. #58
    Senior Member Array title="DesertSteel has a reputation beyond repute"> DesertSteel's Avatar

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    We can disagree without you going to the next level and say I am disrespecting AV.

    I think he made an unfortunate choice as to how to remain true to his beliefs, which of course does not discredit all of his accomplishments and certainly is not disrespect, assuming veterans are not immune from criticism from civilians for actions they take in civilian life.

    When you are a veteran or just a patriotic citizen you can strike a balance in honoring your country and the decisions of your co-workers.

    That includes the ability to honor the flag without opting out of the decision of his teammates not to participate in the anthem ceremony. They are his co-workers now.

    Or do you contend the only way he could honor the flag was to step away from his teammates into the sunlight where the TV cameras could get an unobstructed view?

    Steelers are going to spin this but Harrison pretty directly and Tomlin, who probably let his guard down because of frustration with both the loss as well as the anthem follies, indicated what the apparent understanding was. Now this has become a national story and I bet will be the subject of a tweet by a well known political figure.

    As I posted previously, this story started out for me as AV taking the only course of action he could - as usual this like most events is not such a clear cut matter of who is right and who is wrong.
    I just think you're overthinking all of this at this point. The dude did three tours. He fought for our country - something which 0% of his teammates did. He has the right to honor the flag and do it for all to see. To claim that he did it to intentionally show up his teammates is out of bounds IMO.

  29. #59
    Ghost Poster Array title="ALLD has a reputation beyond repute"> ALLD's Avatar

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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    What Tomlin said in the post-game PC said was BS. He said they wanted to avoid the politics and concentrate on playing football. Less than a handful showed up to play and by keeping the team off the sidelines during the anthem was a political statement. He was saying the USA was not good enough to be proud of and support openly.
    All Defense!

  30. #60
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    Re: I Agree With Tomlin's Decision To Not Bring The Team Out!

    I respect all opinions, Kaeps and AV's. Personally I dont think it's hypocritical to think what Kaepernick did was wrong way to protest and AV was right way. They are very different. Kaepernick basically said F U to flag and country and AV did what is deemed as the norm and respectful. They both have their right and now are held accountable. Kaep is without a team, AV's jersey is sold out!

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