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Thread: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    This is really becoming a joke. The fastest way to stop teams from kneeling is to let the issue die. Of course, it was already dead until the president resurrected it. I mean, it's getting so comical I almost feel as though Trump is doing it on purpose to keep the issue in the spotlight because he agrees with it, and has just resigned himself to playing the foil.
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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    This is like the cheapest political stunt ever. I mean, maybe not in dollar terms but geez.

    So far beneath the office. Hold majority in all branches of government and the best you can do is stunts and Twitter theater over anthem protests?

    What a bunch of losers.


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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    This is like the cheapest political stunt ever. I mean, maybe not in dollar terms but geez.

    So far beneath the office. Hold majority in all branches of government and the best you can do is stunts and Twitter theater over anthem protests?

    What a bunch of losers.


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    THIS. So much this.

    I thought several of the things Obama did was beneath the office, like lecturing the American people on why they were wrong about gun control when congress didn't pass the legislation. There wasn't a whole lot Bush did that I thought was beneath the office. And, truth, be told, in hindsight there was even less for Clinton, and virtually nothing for Bush, Reagan, and Carter. In other words, the US electorate seems to double-down with each new president on electing someone who just doesn't understand what it means to respect the office and the fact that he or she is governing an entire country and has to ​remain above the fray.
    “Life is a series of decisions you make that add up to your reputation. Do the right thing.”
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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    THIS. So much this.

    I thought several of the things Obama did was beneath the office, like lecturing the American people on why they were wrong about gun control when congress didn't pass the legislation. There wasn't a whole lot Bush did that I thought was beneath the office. And, truth, be told, in hindsight there was even less for Clinton, and virtually nothing for Bush, Reagan, and Carter. In other words, the US electorate seems to double-down with each new president on electing someone who just doesn't understand what it means to respect the office and the fact that he or she is governing an entire country and has to ​remain above the fray.
    I might quibble on some of the details, bit yeah.

    Did you see the video of POTUS tossing rolls of paper towels? Another totally dignified look.


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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem


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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Read a headline that owners are trying to determine how to get back to just football. Ummm....how about just let players do whatever they want during the anthem. The stronger lockerrooms will win out. It is, after all, a team sport.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Read a headline that owners are trying to determine how to get back to just football. Ummm....how about just let players do whatever they want during the anthem. The stronger lockerrooms will win out. It is, after all, a team sport.
    After VP Pence walked out on Sunday, it looks like the NFL now recognizes this is not going to happily fade away and is going to try to end this

    Jerry Jones was running with this argument last night on ESPN

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    After VP Pence walked out on Sunday, it looks like the NFL now recognizes this is not going to happily fade away and is going to try to end this

    Jerry Jones was running with this argument last night on ESPN
    Heard a report on the radio this morning(Mike and Mike) that the language of the CBA and rules manual does not specifically define the owner's power when players are on the sidelines. Uses the word 'should' when addressing conduct during the anthem. The lawyer speaking seems to think the players have a great case if the owners want to MAKE them stand or face suspension/fines.
    Now, I was driving while listening, so if I misunderstood his point, feel free to correct me.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/nfl-may-c...8076--spt.html

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Heard a report on the radio this morning(Mike and Mike) that the language of the CBA and rules manual does not specifically define the owner's power when players are on the sidelines. Uses the word 'should' when addressing conduct during the anthem. The lawyer speaking seems to think the players have a great case if the owners want to MAKE them stand or face suspension/fines.
    Now, I was driving while listening, so if I misunderstood his point, feel free to correct me.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/nfl-may-c...8076--spt.html
    Any new rule will end up in court and then it is judicial roulette - I was surprised Ezekiel Elliott won his case to enjoin his suspension that is on appeal

    Article 46 of the CBA and the personal conduct policy give the league authority to discipline any "conduct that undermines or puts at risk the integrity of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL personnel."

    http://static.nfl.com/static/content...0000828506.pdf

    When Goodell issued his suspension of Ben in 2010 he said "[t]he Personal Conduct Policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that 'undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.' By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard." Roethlisberger's suspension by a league that floats on dollars generated from beer advertisements was also justified on the ground "the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated. There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk."

    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d...ers-evaluation

    So Goodell can sanction a lot of conduct

    The NBA already requires its players to stand for the anthem.

    http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/2...ational-anthem

    If the NFL imposed a similar rule it would seem to be be tough to challenge it given that Goodell has broad powers and the NFL would not be the first pro league to have such a rule.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    End zone celebration


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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    End zone celebration

    Now that the Commissioner is demanding the players stand, can you focus on real issues in the country?

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Rumor has it that Eminem is being booked for the SuperBowl halftime show.

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    Re: Steelers not standing for anthem today

    Quote Originally Posted by Vis View Post
    In order for it to show respect or mean anything at all, standing for the anthem need to be entirely voluntary. The flag and the anthem are representations of the ideal of freedom. Respect the freedom.
    The problem is that if the alienate enough fans, the NFL will lose $$. When teams are hit in the wallet, things will happen. The players today are ruining it for the players of tomorrow.

    Not to assume, but people who take that attitude usually have not served in the military.
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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    And when it comes to owners and what the CBA allows, if an owner wants to take a stand (like Jerry Jones), you either stand or you don't play.

    CBA can't demand that the owner allows the player to take the field.

    The fans, via the owners, have all the leverage.
    “They say all marriages are made in heaven, but so are thunder and lightning.”
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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by BurghBoy412 View Post
    I cannot believe you're all still talking about this. LOL
    To all people that are claiming they are giving up the NFL. When you discover how sad and pathetic your life is without football.YOU'll BE BACK! I'm willing to bet the NFL has record viewing for this years Super Bowl.
    Did you go to the Steelers vs Bills game in 2001?

    Your comment speaks volumes about it's author.
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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    conservatives make up the largest section of NFL ticket buyers .... the true impact of this will not be felt until next season what we are seeing now with viewership / ratings is just the top of the iceberg ... they have a window in which to right the ship if they do not do so satisfactory the impact of this will be monumental ... its already been more significant than they thought

    as a 54 year old who had not missed a game since the 3rd or 4th grade I have not watched a down of live NFL football since the Steelers anthem debacle and have only watched a few highlights and checked some box scores since ..

    will I return to watching is anyone's guess but I will say this Sundays have been a lot less stressful
    Websters definition of Arm Chair QB
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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Rumor has it that Eminem is being booked for the SuperBowl halftime show.




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    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    The would be a dumb move by the NFL to have eminem. They should have Kid Rock or Ted Nugent.
    All Defense!

  19. #259

    Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Justin Timberlake ain’t gonna let Eminem share the stage with his dick in a box. No way. Lol.




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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondaryconcerns View Post
    conservatives make up the largest section of NFL ticket buyers .... the true impact of this will not be felt until next season what we are seeing now with viewership / ratings is just the top of the iceberg ... they have a window in which to right the ship if they do not do so satisfactory the impact of this will be monumental ... its already been more significant than they thought

    as a 54 year old who had not missed a game since the 3rd or 4th grade I have not watched a down of live NFL football since the Steelers anthem debacle and have only watched a few highlights and checked some box scores since ..

    will I return to watching is anyone's guess but I will say this Sundays have been a lot less stressful
    That sounds like a pretty massive claim to be backed up by what? I mean has any really correlated the political views and voting habits of even a minority of NFL ticket buyers, let alone enough to project that the majority are conservative in their affiliations? I mean those against anthem protests are pretty darn vocal about it, but just because folks of one viewpoint make some viral videos does not necessarily mean it is a majority. it may be, but some data would be cool.

    I was able to find this - https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...n-politically/

    "In our poll, the average team’s fan base is made up of 6 percentage points more Democrats than Republicans."

    So that would seem to indicate that fan bases, in general, skew a bit more democratic than republican. I was not able to find anything regarding ticket buyers specifically. Those may indeed be far more conservative as I have seen reports that say ticket buyers, particularly season ticket buyers skew, older, white, and higher up the economic ladder -- often socio-economic indicators of conservative political leanings. But that data is from awhile back and dimly remembered.

    - - - Updated - - -

    https://deadspin.com/how-the-nfl-lost-its-mind-and-its-nerve-on-anthem-prote-1819364030

    Check it out! Once again, the NFL's policy is all driven around PR spin and maximizing what the owners want!

    Totally shocking!

    They changed the policy in secret sometime between 2014 and like a week ago. These guys are predictable and bad at almost everything. All they had to do is say they did not have a concrete policy because they didn't think they needed one. Aaaahhhhheeeem:

    "In light of recent events we will be working with owners and the union to provide clarity to our franchises regarding league policy on the issue moving forward. We ask for patience from our dedicated and passionate fans on all sides of this important and heartfelt issue as we attempt to reach a workable solution to a complex situation. We anticipate having a detailed policy in place shortly."

    Instead, they dink around with the league policy in secret. What a bunch of inept doofus's.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ALLD View Post
    The would be a dumb move by the NFL to have eminem. They should have Kid Rock or Ted Nugent.
    Why? Just as many folks don't like those dudes as don't like Eminem.

    I think all 3 kind suck ass - but I just use the half-time for bathroom and beer breaks anyway!

  21. #261
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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    You may have crossed a line when Rush is telling you to back off (FWIW the link is to a story in The Daily Caller, not known as a lefty journal)

    Conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh said Wednesday that he is starting to get “nervous” that President Donald Trump is able to dictate what NFL players can and cannot do, and said orders like that should come directly from league owners.

    “I am very uncomfortable with the president of the United States being able to dictate the behavior of anybody. That’s not where this should be coming from,” Limbaugh said. “His motives are pure, don’t misunderstand. But I don’t think that it is useful or helpful for any employee anywhere to be forced to do something because the government says they must.”

    “That scares the hell out of me,” Limbaugh added. “The commissioner should be demanding this. Not the president. We don’t want the president being able to demand anybody that he’s unhappy with … behave in a way that he requires. That’s scary to me, even if the president is somebody I happen to like.” ...

    Limbaugh said owners should release concise rules and regulations detailing acceptable protocol, but they should do so of their own accord, not because the White House is pressuring them.
    “This is a slippery slope to me, and it hit me awhile ago and crystallized last night. Trump is in the right, don’t misunderstand, but no president should have dictatorial power over individual behavior,” he said. “It’s up to the owners to come up with a system of punishment if their employees violate company policy. Like it is in any other business.”

    “What he says about this is absolutely right on the money, but it ought not be a presidential dictate,” Limbaugh concluded.

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/12/ru...ower-over-nfl/

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    I find myself agreeing with Rush? I think I need a shower.


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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post



    Say at what you want about Trump, that was a GREAT retort.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Say at what you want about Trump, that was a GREAT retort.
    It is not in his twitter feed (I admit I check it out daily) - too bad if someone took it down - I agree that is funny

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?...Ctwgr%5Eauthor

    Fake News?

    All things considered probably not a bad thing if POTUS is not on Twitter rapping out retorts at 2:19 am

    But there is a nice tweet with video of the Pens and the Cup in the Oval Office


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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I find myself agreeing with Rush? I think I need a shower.


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    Ahahaha! I've got you beat...not only do I agree with Rush (GAG), I'm a new Eminem fan. So not only do I need a shower, I need a chemical skin peel.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach1 View Post


    The irony is that Trump appeared in an Eminem "election style" video "endorsing" Eminem in 04

    This whole thing is a circus.



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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    The more I think about this the more I feel that the Steelers should put this issue to bed by having AB kneel flanked byba standing AV and Ben R. Then just give one answer interviews that their actions speak for themselves. Issue over.


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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    The more I think about this the more I feel that the Steelers should put this issue to bed by having AB kneel flanked byba standing AV and Ben R. Then just give one answer interviews that their actions speak for themselves. Issue over.


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    Or you can put it to bed by maintaining the status quo pending further developments - this article by (I know, I know, not the most credible source ) Jason La Canfora states no Cowboys players had been engaging in any anthem activities after the group kneel before the anthem in week three (which their owner joined) but are now stirred up after Jerry Jones decided to throw down the gauntlet if anyone engaged in any protest

    Cowboys players have become frustrated and, in some cases, angry, with owner Jerry Jones for his remarks in the past week about protests during the national anthem, taking an issue that had not been particularly charged in that locker room to one that is now at the forefront, according to player and union sources.

    The Cowboys had been presenting a united gameday display on the matter for the most part. No player had sat or kneeled during the anthem; it was not a prevailing topic among players, and while some individuals were incredibly conflicted about the team's conformity to stand as one, it was viewed largely as something that had been hashed out. But with Jones going on a media campaign this week, beginning shortly after the Cowboys loss to the Packers last Sunday, the dynamics have shifted considerably, the sources said.

    https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/j...s-locker-room/

    The matter is on simmer pending what comes out of the owners' meeting. If the owners try to impose some sort of zero tolerance policy that might be the time for your suggestion, which has an appeal for me.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    I was having a conversation with my father on this topic. He is really turned off to the NFL right now due to this whole protest thing. To me, it's really not that big of a deal as far as me enjoying the games, so I asked him to explain. Of course I put out there that this is not a protest of the flag, military, police, etc, but about inequality and oppression. His point of view is that it's WASN'T about those things until the protesters themselves made it about those things. I really had to take a step back at those words and look at this from that perspective. I have been saying all along, you may not like 'how', but you need to understand 'why' these things are going on. I do fully support every individual's right to peacefully protest, however they see is the best way to get their point across. This series of protests however, have become more about 'THIS IS HOW WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS', than what the protest is REALLY about. Like it or not, these players need to understand that this stance is not going in the intended direction. It's just not. It's falling on deaf ears, not because the offended don't care about the main issue, but because in the process of getting the point across, they have become the offenders. The general public has taken an opposing/dividing view at this point. The protests are only serving to divide loyalties rather than a movement to change. It is now my belief that a new path to change needs to be taken. The current path is only going to lead to increased hostility and probably an end to the 'peaceful' part of the protesting. In other words, this whole thing could get very ugly, very quickly, and kill any chance for positive change and resolution. I know many of you have already been seeing this issue from this perspective for some time now, even from the beginning. I think I am more on board with this point of view now. I'm still going to watch the games, that hasn't changed for me. But I no longer give these protests any merit for causing real change, and therefor, should end while they are still peaceful.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    I was having a conversation with my father on this topic. He is really turned off to the NFL right now due to this whole protest thing. To me, it's really not that big of a deal as far as me enjoying the games, so I asked him to explain. Of course I put out there that this is not a protest of the flag, military, police, etc, but about inequality and oppression. His point of view is that it's WASN'T about those things until the protesters themselves made it about those things. I really had to take a step back at those words and look at this from that perspective. I have been saying all along, you may not like 'how', but you need to understand 'why' these things are going on. I do fully support every individual's right to peacefully protest, however they see is the best way to get their point across. This series of protests however, have become more about 'THIS IS HOW WE ARE GOING TO DO THIS', than what the protest is REALLY about. Like it or not, these players need to understand that this stance is not going in the intended direction. It's just not. It's falling on deaf ears, not because the offended don't care about the main issue, but because in the process of getting the point across, they have become the offenders. The general public has taken an opposing/dividing view at this point. The protests are only serving to divide loyalties rather than a movement to change. It is now my belief that a new path to change needs to be taken. The current path is only going to lead to increased hostility and probably an end to the 'peaceful' part of the protesting. In other words, this whole thing could get very ugly, very quickly, and kill any chance for positive change and resolution. I know many of you have already been seeing this issue from this perspective for some time now, even from the beginning. I think I am more on board with this point of view now. I'm still going to watch the games, that hasn't changed for me. But I no longer give these protests any merit for causing real change, and therefor, should end while they are still peaceful.
    Thanks for your thoughtful post

    In addition to never believing anthem protests would change anything, my view is giving up symbols of patriotism to the other side on an issue is counter-productive and allows your own love of our country to be doubted

    FWIW there is recent polling issued October 11

    American voters say 58 - 34 percent that Trump's comments on NFL protests were not appropriate. Republicans say 67 - 21 percent the remarks were appropriate and white voters with no college degree are divided 46 - 45 percent. Every other party, gender, education, age and racial group listed says the remarks were not appropriate.

    Voters also disapprove 52 - 43 percent of NFL players taking a knee during the National Anthem. There are wide gender, age and racial gaps:

    • Men disapprove 57 - 39 percent while women are divided 48 - 48 percent;
    • Voters 18 to 34 years old approve 66 - 27 percent, while voters over 65 years old disapprove 62 - 34 percent;
    • White voters disapprove 60 - 37 percent, as black voters approve 79 - 18 percent. Hispanic voters are divided 46 - 45 percent.

    https://poll.qu.edu/national/release...ReleaseID=2491

    This is a racial tinderbox (which the President surely knows) and with Jerry Jones popping off triggers some troubling image issues (that again) with white owners telling predominantly black players what to do - if the league office starts issuing mandates look out

    The cross-tabs at question #37 in the linked article that break this issue down for various demographic groups are quite interesting - could not cut and paste that here in a readable format

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