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Thread: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

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    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondaryconcerns View Post
    you answered your own question ... HERE is the phone call released by the widow because she was pissed at how it was being put out there by the Fake News people ..

    Different phone call different widow.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/amp/news/...icle-1.3577432



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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Different phone call and widow yes but this phone call shows his sincerity and respect for the fallen soldier as well for his family. Why would he care any less for Sgt. Johnson and his wife? No matter what Trump does, people will spin it to suit their narrative. I certainly won't take what a democratic representative says to heart until I hear the phone call first hand
    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Tomlin is that good.



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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by smokin3000gt View Post
    Different phone call and widow yes but this phone call shows his sincerity and respect for the fallen soldier as well for his family. Why would he care any less for Sgt. Johnson and his wife? No matter what Trump does, people will spin it to suit their narrative. I certainly won't take what a democratic representative says to heart until I hear the phone call first hand
    Certainly. I want to be clear that I the linked audio that was a respectful and appropriate conversation.

    I guess I'm just starting to feel this is another issue meaning the protests that is being used to divide and distract all of us.

    Politucians want us distracted so we don't realize how much they are screwing us.

    What NFL players do or don't do has zero impact on my life. What our elected officials do does.


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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Certainly. I want to be clear that I the linked audio that was a respectful and appropriate conversation.

    I guess I'm just starting to feel this is another issue meaning the protests that is being used to divide and distract all of us.

    Politucians want us distracted so we don't realize how much they are screwing us.

    What NFL players do or don't do has zero impact on my life. What our elected officials do does.


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    Agreed.. I'm tired of every anthill being turned into mountain when we have much bigger problems to worry about. Meanwhile the press is talking about how many scoops of ice cream he gets, how he's a racist nazi, and likes to pee on russian hookers
    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Tomlin is that good.



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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by smokin3000gt View Post
    Different phone call and widow yes but this phone call shows his sincerity and respect for the fallen soldier as well for his family. Why would he care any less for Sgt. Johnson and his wife? No matter what Trump does, people will spin it to suit their narrative. I certainly won't take what a democratic representative says to heart until I hear the phone call first hand
    What if she was a GOP representative?

    Representative Wilson should not have publicized the call, the President should not have reacted as he always does to her comments (he tweeted again about it this morning) but forget that possibility, and Chief of Staff Kelly did not do himself any favors by including an attack on Representative Wilson that apparently was not accurate after his moving statements on U.S. soldiers who are KIA. Nobody other than the families of the fallen soldiers comes out of this latest episode with a better reputation. But such is life when governing has become a reality TV show rather than accomplishing anything.

    Other Presidents might have handled this entire situation differently - this from President Bush's former press secretary on when W visited wounded soldiers and their families


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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    What if she was a GOP representative?


    you don't think someone already against the POTUS and will likely try to keep her job in 2018 by running against the POTUS would twist his words around?
    Quote Originally Posted by 86WARD View Post
    Tomlin is that good.



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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by smokin3000gt View Post


    you don't think someone already against the POTUS and will likely try to keep her job in 2018 by running against the POTUS would twist his words around?
    How about "might" twist them around rather than "would"? Or is the default assumption these days that every elected representative will not miss an opportunity to lie if it allows a partisan point to be scored?

    FWIW a family member in the vehicle confirmed the account - just another bitter partisan I guess

    Sergeant Johnson’s mother, Cowanda Jones-Johnson, backed the congresswoman’s version. “Yes, he did state that comment,” Ms. Jones-Johnson said, via message on Facebook, of Mr. Trump’s remark that her son “knew what he signed up for.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/18/u...nson-call.html

    And although Chief of Staff Kelly tore into Representative Wilson, "Kelly did not contradict Wilson's account."

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/19/politics/john-kelly-donald-trump-niger-family-calls/index.html

    I am sick of this too but the Pot Stirrer In Chief these days is the President



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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem



    Give a lib a fish--he eats for a day

    Teach a lib to fish--he is back the next day asking for more free fish.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem



    Speaking of proof, moron/liar/kitty cat grabber in chief said he had proof of what he said to the widow, where is it? Oh that's right, with all the other proof he can't prove because he has no proof.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    So............ when might our elected officials actually DO something for us, other than keep this kind $#@%^* front and center while they ALL screw us? Ummmm...... never mind.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    So............ when might our elected officials actually DO something for us, other than keep this kind $#@%^* front and center while they ALL screw us? Ummmm...... never mind.
    They won't

    It is perpetual campaign - the only thing that matters is the next election

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by silver & black View Post
    So............ when might our elected officials actually DO something for us, other than keep this kind $#@%^* front and center while they ALL screw us? Ummmm...... never mind.
    Exactly!!!

    Look how outraged folks get about these distraction issues but many of the same folks are not saying boo about moves to eliminate their healthcare. Or the associated moves to take the money from healthcare and use it to fund a massive tax break for rich folks who don’t need it. The math is transparently clear.

    But, we better make sure no one protests the anthem.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    They won't

    It is perpetual campaign - the only thing that matters is the next election
    Yep.

    Ken Burns' recent "Viet Nam War" TV movie clearly illustrated this presidential/political mindset that resulted in grave consequences.

    Young men were dying needlessly and yet both Kennedy and Johnson were more concerned about how a US pullout/admitted loss would damage their chances of re-election.

    In fairness to them, they seemed to agonize over their decisions, but ultimately they valued re-election over saving lives.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Exactly!!!

    Look how outraged folks get about these distraction issues but many of the same folks are not saying boo about moves to eliminate their healthcare. Or the associated moves to take the money from healthcare and use it to fund a massive tax break for rich folks who don’t need it. The math is transparently clear.

    But, we better make sure no one protests the anthem.

    While I don't disagree with the notion that politicians are slimy and prone to using distractions for their own self-interested purposes ... I don't think this is one of them. Trump basically ran on a platform that included, plain as day, "I'm going to repeal Obamacare and lower taxes."

    Those actions are not a "surprise" to a lot of people, nor are they outraged over them; it's actually what they voted for.

    The healthcare thing in particular ... people act like there was no healthcare before Obamacare. Why? All it did was lock in high costs and enshrine them into the tax code. Very little actually changed in terms of who could get coverage or for what.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    While I don't disagree with the notion that politicians are slimy and prone to using distractions for their own self-interested purposes ... I don't think this is one of them. Trump basically ran on a platform that included, plain as day, "I'm going to repeal Obamacare and lower taxes."

    Those actions are not a "surprise" to a lot of people, nor are they outraged over them; it's actually what they voted for.

    The healthcare thing in particular ... people act like there was no healthcare before Obamacare. Why? All it did was lock in high costs and enshrine them into the tax code. Very little actually changed in terms of who could get coverage or for what.
    It's the same healthcare refrom whichever president's name gets put on it. TrumpCare will be no different than ObamaCare. Numbers will be moved around to make it look different, but the way it works will still be the same. Like most people, I get my insurance through my work. That will not change.
    I'm more interested in the American companies that employ overseas that we were promised would be brought back home. Those jobs are needed here. For some reason that's not even a topic of discussion anymore.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Yeah, because the media (CNN, WaPo, etc) has been SO fair to Trump. How's that Russia narrative working out for ya?

    Is Trump perfect? Hell no. But these are the same people that swore Hillary had the election in the bag so I take anything they say with a grain of salt.

    Edit: I know this post is off topic, but hey, this thread is already a shit show.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    It's the same healthcare refrom whichever president's name gets put on it. TrumpCare will be no different than ObamaCare. Numbers will be moved around to make it look different, but the way it works will still be the same. Like most people, I get my insurance through my work. That will not change.
    Unfortunately, you're probably right. Somehow the notion of health care being managed by the government has become solidifed in the public consciousness as the way it Must Be And Always Will Be, and people are irrationally scared to the point of violence of doing it any other way. When it's well established that direct government involvement generally does not make any industry either more efficient or less expensive, and this is no exception.

    Government rarely "fights for the little guy," (or if it does, it rarely does so without fucking it up and actually making it worse) - but it sure does use that perception to manipulate the little guy, and this is also no exception.


    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    I'm more interested in the American companies that employ overseas that we were promised would be brought back home. Those jobs are needed here. For some reason that's not even a topic of discussion anymore.
    It's pretty clear that this is related to taxes and regulations; the fewer of each in a country (or state), the more appealing it is to establish yourself there. If you had the choice of paying a 30 percent tax on your income or no tax at all, and everything else was the same to you, which one would you choose? Yet people are angry at the companies for making what they would simply call a rational decision if they did it themselves. Hopefully lower taxes and fewer regulations will be a start.

    Well, not "hopefully," it's been proven beyond a doubt, so just sit back and watch it take place if they pass tax reforms, I guess.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Unfortunately, you're probably right. Somehow the notion of health care being managed by the government has become solidifed in the public consciousness as the way it Must Be And Always Will Be, and people are irrationally scared to the point of violence of doing it any other way. When it's well established that direct government involvement generally does not make any industry either more efficient or less expensive, and this is no exception.

    Government rarely "fights for the little guy," (or if it does, it rarely does so without fucking it up and actually making it worse) - but it sure does use that perception to manipulate the little guy, and this is also no exception.




    It's pretty clear that this is related to taxes and regulations; the fewer of each in a country (or state), the more appealing it is to establish yourself there. If you had the choice of paying a 30 percent tax on your income or no tax at all, and everything else was the same to you, which one would you choose? Yet people are angry at the companies for making what they would simply call a rational decision if they did it themselves. Hopefully lower taxes and fewer regulations will be a start.

    Well, not "hopefully," it's been proven beyond a doubt, so just sit back and watch it take place if they pass tax reforms, I guess.
    What he said he was going to do, was give the companies a choice. Either move the jobs back to the states, or pay the same taxes foreign companies pay to import their goods. My point is that this campaign promise/issue has not been mentioned at all since his election that I'm aware of. That was the ONLY positive I saw in his entire campaign.
    No. I do not blame companies for finding ways to increase revenue. I do find fault with companies for shutting down plants, factories, or warehouses here, and moving those jobs out of the country. How do people buy your product if they are not working? IMO, this is one of the greater causes for the increase in people on welfare in this country, their jobs simply moved away.

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    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    While I don't disagree with the notion that politicians are slimy and prone to using distractions for their own self-interested purposes ... I don't think this is one of them. Trump basically ran on a platform that included, plain as day, "I'm going to repeal Obamacare and lower taxes."

    Those actions are not a "surprise" to a lot of people, nor are they outraged over them; it's actually what they voted for.

    The healthcare thing in particular ... people act like there was no healthcare before Obamacare. Why? All it did was lock in high costs and enshrine them into the tax code. Very little actually changed in terms of who could get coverage or for what.
    If you could walk me through how tweet storms about NFL players standing for the national anthem have done anything to help repeal Obamacare (how is that working out?) or cut taxes I would appreciate it

    For better or worse Obamacare resulted in some major changes to health insurance coverage and availability - whether or not those changes are good public policy is a separate issue
    http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/27/news/economy/obamacare-health-insurance/index.html
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/u...disappear.html

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    What he said he was going to do, was give the companies a choice. Either move the jobs back to the states, or pay the same taxes foreign companies pay to import their goods. My point is that this campaign promise/issue has not been mentioned at all since his election that I'm aware of. That was the ONLY positive I saw in his entire campaign.
    No. I do not blame companies for finding ways to increase revenue. I do find fault with companies for shutting down plants, factories, or warehouses here, and moving those jobs out of the country. How do people buy your product if they are not working? IMO, this is one of the greater causes for the increase in people on welfare in this country, their jobs simply moved away.
    In CA I don't think its jobs moved away. I think people get too much for free and no incentive to get a job. I just retired from Fire Dept and have been looking in to part time job and they are everywhere if willing to do it. I am picky at this point in my life but if not there is plenty to do to make ends meet. I know Im cynical but until people forced to get off ass and work they take the path of least resistance.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by cubanstogie View Post
    In CA I don't think its jobs moved away. I think people get too much for free and no incentive to get a job. I just retired from Fire Dept and have been looking in to part time job and they are everywhere if willing to do it. I am picky at this point in my life but if not there is plenty to do to make ends meet. I know Im cynical but until people forced to get off ass and work they take the path of least resistance.
    I agree with that sentiment also for the most part. However, look at the impact this has had on the major industrial towns across America. It's all part of the same sickness. The military base closings destroyed the economy in those towns putting thousands out of work during Bill Clinton's run. When the country was in our "recession" during W's presidency, the oil companies made record profits. Using foreign oil. Yes, I believe the major corporations do have a civic duty to the American people by providing jobs. If not a moral obligation.

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Yes, I believe the major corporations do have a civic duty to the American people by providing jobs. If not a moral obligation.
    Good luck with that

    This is a a long read but a powerful article

    Becoming a Steelworker Liberated Her. Then Her Job Moved to Mexico.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/14/u...o-rexnord.html

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Interesting discussion. I can't link to it now, but all non partisan analysis I have seen says that the current versions of healthcare repeal options take any cost savings seem by the government and use it to pay for tax cuts to the top few % and corporations.

    At the same time, the tax cuts for regular folks basically break down to about $100 a month.

    Billions compared to thousands. Tell me how they would want anyone to pay attention to that.


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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    If you could walk me through how tweet storms about NFL players standing for the national anthem have done anything to help repeal Obamacare (how is that working out?) or cut taxes I would appreciate it

    It doesn't help, he makes himself look like a hotheaded clown with stuff like that. It's obvious to everyone the guy has his ... issues, I'll leave it at that. He is not my favorite person to be doing this job, not by a longshot. But from a results perspective, even if he wastes the entire next four years tweeting about bush-league shit and accomplishes nothing, that's an improvement over what the Democrats want to do, which would be actively causing harm.

    That's a pretty sad state of affairs, when the previous course of action was so bad that you will take sitting around doing jack shit as a major improvement. Actually accomplishing anything positive on his own would be a bonus, though I am not holding my breath.


    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    For better or worse Obamacare resulted in some major changes to health insurance coverage and availability - whether or not those changes are good public policy is a separate issue
    http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/27/news/economy/obamacare-health-insurance/index.html
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/13/u...disappear.html
    No doubt Obamacare caused changes, but when you say "for better or for worse," it was definitely worse. Over 90% of the uninsured who "got coverage" were simply placed on existing Medicaid programs for which they would've qualified anyway; most of the rest were college students and the like who had skipped insurance intentionally. For everyone else, it simply locked in higher costs, on the order of double what they used to be, and there is really no disputing that.

    The very short answer: A lot of hype and running around for no net gain health-wise, basically a several trillion-dollar expense to manipulate public opinion.

    The longer answer: Decades ago, health care used to function like any other free market - insurance was only for catastrophic occurrences. You could actually afford visits to doctors and hospitals because they faced price pressure like everyone else. (If the average person couldn't afford to go to the doctor, the doctor would go out of business, so they adjusted their rates accordingly.) When insurance started being used for everything including routine office visits, it divorced the cost component from the market; with no price pressure for the providers, the prices quickly spiraled out of control. With insurance paying the bill, people were no longer aware of what their healthcare cost; since most of them now have their job picking up most of the tab even for the insurance premiums, they're even less aware. The entire medical industry managed to carve out its own little bubble separate from the rest of the economy, where everyone enjoys monopoly pricing, and they have been happily feasting on that for 30-40 years. I don't know what the perfect solution to that is, but it certainly is NOT to codify that system into law and fund it with public money.

    More relevant answer: People think that socialism means everyone living comfortably in Scandinavia, and that individual government-run public programs are the equivalent of that. In reality, socialism is everyone living in a shitty apartment in Detroit (or the Ozarks, take your pick), and individual government-run public programs are the equivalent of that. For confirmation, you can look around at any government-run program now, including healthcare systems such as the VA. I have no idea why people want this, or how they were sold on the idea that this is a part of their lives that should be managed by the government. But the blatant truth is that direct government involvement is almost never a good thing. You need the government for projects that are on a giant scale, like the military or particle physics research. You do not need the government for things like going to the doctor. Its role in the economy is to play referee when something needs it, not to be an active participant - THAT was a huge mistake of Obamacare, and why it went completely off the rails almost immediately.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    in fairness ... Trump sleeps just 5 hours a night , if he spends 3 hours a day on twitter he still has more work hours left than most so to say " if he got off social media and did work " simply doesn't flush as in his regular pre president job he got more done before 6am than most folks got accomplished all day so ....

    is he a big mouth , does he say some stupid stuff ? absolutely ..... that said I would take 16 years of trump and then Pence than 30 days of Clinton
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondaryconcerns View Post
    in fairness ... Trump sleeps just 5 hours a night , if he spends 3 hours a day on twitter he still has more work hours left than most so to say " if he got off social media and did work " simply doesn't flush as in his regular pre president job he got more done before 6am than most folks got accomplished all day so ....

    is he a big mouth , does he say some stupid stuff ? absolutely ..... that said I would take 16 years of trump and then Pence than 30 days of Clinton

    Yeah, I mean stuff that involves Congress and passing legislation kind of moves at the speed it's going to move. If the status of Obamacare and tax reform is that people are arguing over it in the Senate right now, he could talk about all day and the status would still be that they are arguing over it in the Senate.

    They are trying to make it happen in some form. Maybe they will get there, maybe they won't - but what they are NOT talking about is full socialized medicine and raising taxes even more, so that in itself is a minor victory. Maybe not a "step in the right direction" but at least a step away from the wrong one.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    It doesn't help, he makes himself look like a hotheaded clown with stuff like that. It's obvious to everyone the guy has his ... issues, I'll leave it at that. He is not my favorite person to be doing this job, not by a longshot. But from a results perspective, even if he wastes the entire next four years tweeting about bush-league shit and accomplishes nothing, that's an improvement over what the Democrats want to do, which would be actively causing harm.
    Maybe - maybe not

    This from Republican Senator Jeff Flake in a speech on the floor of the Senate earlier today after announcing he would not seek re-election

    “We must never allow ourselves to lapse into thinking that that is just the way things are now. If we simply become used to this condition . . . then heaven help us,” Flake said, his voice shaking. “Without fear of the consequences and without consideration of the rules of what is politically safe, we must stop pretending that the conduct of some in our executive branch are normal. They are not normal. Reckless, outrageous and undignified behavior has become excused as telling it like it is when it is actually reckless, outrageous and undignified.”....

    “It is often said that children are watching. Well, they are. And what are we doing to do about that?,” Flake said. “When the next generation asks us, why didn’t you do something? Why didn’t you speak up? What are we going to say? I rise to say, enough.”

    Flake said senators “must dedicate ourselves to making sure that the anomalous never becomes the normal. With respect, we fooled ourselves long enough that a pivot to governing is right around the corner, a return to civility and stability right behind it. We know better than that. by now, we all know better than that.”

    “It is clear at this moment that a traditional conservative who believes in limited government and free markets, who is devoted to free trade, who is pro-immigration, has a narrower and narrower path” in the Republican Party, Flake said in his speech.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.b804aad7d160

    This from Republican Senator Bob Corker today

    Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) accused President Trump of “debasing” the country with his “untruths,” “name-calling” and “attempted bullying,” escalating his criticism of the president and heightening their feud just as Trump arrived on Capitol Hill to meet with GOP senators about tax legislation.

    “For young people to be watching, not only here in our country, but around the world, someone of this mentality as president of the United States is something that is I think debasing to our country,” said Corker, who spent the morning lambasting Trump in media interviews.

    “You would think he would aspire to be the president of the United States and act like a president of the United States. But that’s just not going to be the case, apparently,” Corker said.
    Trump returned fire, insulting “liddle” Corker on Twitter

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.be20aded8831

    RINOs!

  28. #328
    Senior Member Array title="Dwinsgames has a reputation beyond repute"> Dwinsgames's Avatar

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    its pretty easy to spot agenda when we concentrate on name calling and not look at selling 20% of the nations uranium reserves and bash one side and stay away from criticism of the other ...

    but hey that's cool if that is how you wanna roll ...
    Kenny Pickett is who I though he was .. Eagles problem now

  29. #329
    Senior Member Array title="AtlantaDan has a reputation beyond repute"> AtlantaDan's Avatar

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by Secondaryconcerns View Post
    its pretty easy to spot agenda when we concentrate on name calling and not look at selling 20% of the nations uranium reserves and bash one side and stay away from criticism of the other ...

    but hey that's cool if that is how you wanna roll ...
    I am quoting two GOP Senators - I thought they were on the GOP "side"

    And FWIW I criticized the kneeling NFL players (the original subject of this thread) for engaging in a method of protest that was counterproductive because it forfeits symbols of patriotism to the other side in a debate. I also posted Representative Wilson was out of line for publicizing Trump's call to the widow of Sgt. Johnson

    But thanks for being a beacon of bipartisanship in this thread

  30. #330
    Senior Member Array title="steelreserve has a reputation beyond repute"> steelreserve's Avatar

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    Re: Trump's remarks about NFL players kneeling during the National Anthem

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaDan View Post
    Maybe - maybe not

    This from Republican Senator Jeff Flake in a speech on the floor of the Senate earlier today after announcing he would not seek re-election

    “We must never allow ourselves to lapse into thinking that that is just the way things are now. If we simply become used to this condition . . . then heaven help us,” Flake said, his voice shaking. “Without fear of the consequences and without consideration of the rules of what is politically safe, we must stop pretending that the conduct of some in our executive branch are normal. They are not normal. Reckless, outrageous and undignified behavior has become excused as telling it like it is when it is actually reckless, outrageous and undignified.”....

    “It is often said that children are watching. Well, they are. And what are we doing to do about that?,” Flake said. “When the next generation asks us, why didn’t you do something? Why didn’t you speak up? What are we going to say? I rise to say, enough.”

    Flake said senators “must dedicate ourselves to making sure that the anomalous never becomes the normal. With respect, we fooled ourselves long enough that a pivot to governing is right around the corner, a return to civility and stability right behind it. We know better than that. by now, we all know better than that.”

    “It is clear at this moment that a traditional conservative who believes in limited government and free markets, who is devoted to free trade, who is pro-immigration, has a narrower and narrower path” in the Republican Party, Flake said in his speech.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.b804aad7d160

    This from Republican Senator Bob Corker today

    Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) accused President Trump of “debasing” the country with his “untruths,” “name-calling” and “attempted bullying,” escalating his criticism of the president and heightening their feud just as Trump arrived on Capitol Hill to meet with GOP senators about tax legislation.

    “For young people to be watching, not only here in our country, but around the world, someone of this mentality as president of the United States is something that is I think debasing to our country,” said Corker, who spent the morning lambasting Trump in media interviews.

    “You would think he would aspire to be the president of the United States and act like a president of the United States. But that’s just not going to be the case, apparently,” Corker said.
    Trump returned fire, insulting “liddle” Corker on Twitter

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/power...=.be20aded8831

    RINOs!

    Again, 4-8 years of name-calling and attempted bullying while accomplishing nothing is far better than the Democratic agenda.

    We also think very highly of ourselves in terms of how much attention the rest of the world is paying to us on a daily basis. But if you look at what they're actually talking about in, say, Dublin or Johannesburg, it's not Americans and it's not Trump. Of course the loudest extremists overseas (mostly liberal) make a lot of noise about it, but everyone else has better things to worry about. Global opinion of our "manners" matters for exactly dick. In fact, I'd argue it was much more dangerous that we became known as doormats during Obama's Global Apology Tour.

    It's clear to me that politics has degenerated to a point that is just no longer functioning. I blame this on Bush (the 2nd one), who while nominally meeting the minimum standards for doing the job, generated such a backlash that the left was willing to act completely irrationally just to get their way. Followed by a similar extreme reaction from the right that led to Trump. Now we have primarily extremism as our main political currency, which leads nowhere.

    I do have to say, though, that a lot of Trump's proposals are actually more moderate than you would think - but the liberals have done an excellent job of shifting the paradigm so that what was once left-leaning is now considered normal, and what was once centrist or "common sense" is shouted down as extremist and bigoted against some victim group or other. And Trump himself doesn't help his platform look any more normal with his constant raging over everything. The whole thing is just so stupid it's beyond belief.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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