Putting the Bill Cowher vs. Mike Tomlin debate to bed

[Mojouw]

Also one of the best if not the best center in the league. Sure he's not Webster or Dirt Dawson...


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[Craic]

First one was pretty good but ... '10 being a home run? We had one amazing pick (Brown). Pouncey is very good but you'd better get a good player if you draft a center in the first round. And our second-round pick was a complete waste because Worilds SUCKED ASS, which is bad enough to counteract picking one star player. Things were pretty spotty for a few years after that too; I'd say maybe around 2013-14 we started making picks that actually worked.

Sorry, I gotta disagree with you here. Any draft that produces even the outside possibility of two HOF players for the same team is a great draft. Brown is absolutely on a HOF trajectory. Pouncey isn't, yet, but if he can play at the same level he is now for another 5-7 years and get a SB or two under his belt, I'll guarantee he'll be in the discussion.

[polamalubeast]

2011 was a very good draft with Gilbert and Heyward.....

[steelreserve]

Sorry, I gotta disagree with you here. Any draft that produces even the outside possibility of two HOF players for the same team is a great draft. Brown is absolutely on a HOF trajectory. Pouncey isn't, yet, but if he can play at the same level he is now for another 5-7 years and get a SB or two under his belt, I'll guarantee he'll be in the discussion.

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Brown was the kind of pick that happens once every 5-10 years across the entire league. Pouncey ... great player, but we spent a lot so it was not entirely unexpected. And also, if you told me I could have either a HoF center, or a Pro Bowl (but not HoF) player at virtually any other position, I'd take the other player 10 times out of 10. I know not everyone sees it that same way, so at that point I think it just boils down to a difference of opinion about what constitutes value.

[Craic]

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Brown was the kind of pick that happens once every 5-10 years across the entire league. Pouncey ... great player, but we spent a lot so it was not entirely unexpected. And also, if you told me I could have either a HoF center, or a Pro Bowl (but not HoF) player at virtually any other position, I'd take the other player 10 times out of 10. I know not everyone sees it that same way, so at that point I think it just boils down to a difference of opinion about what constitutes value.

I agree it's pretty much opinion at that point. But after watching the twin horribles (Sean Mahan and Justin Hartwig) until Pouncey came along, I'm not sure I'd ever take that trade.

[Mojouw]

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Brown was the kind of pick that happens once every 5-10 years across the entire league. Pouncey ... great player, but we spent a lot so it was not entirely unexpected. And also, if you told me I could have either a HoF center, or a Pro Bowl (but not HoF) player at virtually any other position, I'd take the other player 10 times out of 10. I know not everyone sees it that same way, so at that point I think it just boils down to a difference of opinion about what constitutes value.

Isn't what your talking about more regarding priorities on the roster? In other words, you're viewing a HOF caliber center as not a prioritized commodity, or at least not with a #1 draft pick.

But in terms of actual draft pick "value" it is hard to argue that the best player at his position during large portions of his career is not a pretty good return on investment.

Looking at the 1st two rounds of the 2010 draft, the only players between Pouncey and Worilds that I might trade for Pouncey are:

Dez Bryant
Jerry Hughes
Rob Gronkowski
Daryl Washington (in this alternate reality he stays sober)

That's not really a list that makes me figure that Pouncey isn't a good draft pick. But again, maybe this all comes from the importance each of us places on the position and the perspective you are looking at it from?

[polamalubeast]

Yeah, I understand where you're coming from. Brown was the kind of pick that happens once every 5-10 years across the entire league. Pouncey ... great player, but we spent a lot so it was not entirely unexpected. And also, if you told me I could have either a HoF center, or a Pro Bowl (but not HoF) player at virtually any other position, I'd take the other player 10 times out of 10. I know not everyone sees it that same way, so at that point I think it just boils down to a difference of opinion about what constitutes value.

I'm sorry, but if the steelers would be cheap on the o-line, our o-line would be bad as the o-line of the Seahawks.

One of the reasons why Dak Prescott and their RB in Dallas had a big rookie season in 2016 was because of their o-line.

[polamalubeast]

I not miss the seasons that Roethlisberger was sacked 50 times per season and that he was well on pace to break the all-time record for the number of sacks allowed in a career by a QB.

[polamalubeast]

Isn't what your talking about more regarding priorities on the roster? In other words, you're viewing a HOF caliber center as not a prioritized commodity, or at least not with a #1 draft pick.

But in terms of actual draft pick "value" it is hard to argue that the best player at his position during large portions of his career is not a pretty good return on investment.

Looking at the 1st two rounds of the 2010 draft, the only players between Pouncey and Worilds that I might trade for Pouncey are:

Dez Bryant
Jerry Hughes
Rob Gronkowski
Daryl Washington (in this alternate reality he stays sober)

That's not really a list that makes me figure that Pouncey isn't a good draft pick. But again, maybe this all comes from the importance each of us places on the position and the perspective you are looking at it from?

The only one I would take in his 4 players is Gronk.

Bryant had off-fields issues at this time, so I don't blame the steelers to not take him, especially with the situations of Roethlisberger and Santonio Holmes in this off-season and Hudges,the Colts cut Hudges I think after 2-3 seasons before exploding in Buffalo.

[polamalubeast]

Also for the center position, the center position was so bad for the Falcons in 2015 (their center had a lot of bad snap,etc) that ruined their offense and their season and after they signed one of the best center in the free agency (Alex Mack) and after their offense was the best last year.

Of course, it was not the only reason but a bad center can hurt very bad a team.

Before Pouncey, our centers were atrocious and it almost cost the super bowl 43 and Pouncey's injury may have cost the super bowl 45.

[steelreserve]

I don't think Pouncey was a "bad" pick. Overall it was a good pick, actually. It just isn't a pick that makes me go "Holy shit, that was amazing!"

Truth be told, I don't know who would've been a better pick. But sometimes even the best player you can get with a certain pick in a certain year is not a "holy shit" type of value. It doesn't mean we blew it. Just that I think it was merely a very good pick and the draft overall was merely a good draft, not an out-of-this-world one. It certainly wasn't 2009, but it wasn't 2002 (a great draft in a different respect) either.

I also think there is a tendency to look at our roster and assume that if we didn't have that particular player, we would have one of the worst in the league instead. In reality, we would probably have an average player - that's what average means. Before Pouncey, we had two really shitty centers (three if you count Stapleton's cameo), so people think that's how it normally is. Same thing with kickers and punters for a while. And with our secondary recently. But that's not the result of trying to address the position and having average luck; it was the result of ignoring the position and also having bad luck. If you make a reasonable effort, you should expect to get a reasonable player, so I'm basing my assumptions on that instead of assuming, if we didn't have Pouncey, we'd have been complete fuckin' idiots about the offensive line again.

Anyway ... I think we're starting to fix things. Going down the board, we're starting to see a handful of serviceable players outside of the first couple picks, instead of Crezdon Butler and Justin Brown on repeat. The value of that to fill out your roster is incredible. For a long time, it was draft all low-skillcap positions with our high picks, and not all of those even worked out, and most of the other picks didn't either, and after every draft you walked away swearing and wondering why they were so stubborn. That was not a winning strategy. More recently, we've been using the high picks on different things and filling out the roster nicely with the others. A night and day difference from a few years ago.

[Mojouw]

I don't think Pouncey was a "bad" pick. Overall it was a good pick, actually. It just isn't a pick that makes me go "Holy shit, that was amazing!"

Truth be told, I don't know who would've been a better pick. But sometimes even the best player you can get with a certain pick in a certain year is not a "holy shit" type of value. It doesn't mean we blew it. Just that I think it was merely a very good pick and the draft overall was merely a good draft, not an out-of-this-world one. It certainly wasn't 2009, but it wasn't 2002 (a great draft in a different respect) either.

I also think there is a tendency to look at our roster and assume that if we didn't have that particular player, we would have one of the worst in the league instead. In reality, we would probably have an average player - that's what average means. Before Pouncey, we had two really shitty centers (three if you count Stapleton's cameo), so people think that's how it normally is. Same thing with kickers and punters for a while. And with our secondary recently. But that's not the result of trying to address the position and having average luck; it was the result of ignoring the position and also having bad luck. If you make a reasonable effort, you should expect to get a reasonable player, so I'm basing my assumptions on that instead of assuming, if we didn't have Pouncey, we'd have been complete fuckin' idiots about the offensive line again.

Anyway ... I think we're starting to fix things. Going down the board, we're starting to see a handful of serviceable players outside of the first couple picks, instead of Crezdon Butler and Justin Brown on repeat. The value of that to fill out your roster is incredible. For a long time, it was draft all low-skillcap positions with our high picks, and not all of those even worked out, and most of the other picks didn't either, and after every draft you walked away swearing and wondering why they were so stubborn. That was not a winning strategy. More recently, we've been using the high picks on different things and filling out the roster nicely with the others. A night and day difference from a few years ago.

I can see where you are going with that and I agree. I've thought for at least since the 2014 draft, the team's strategy seems to have shifted. They are not ignoring need, but they are attempting to fill need with guys that possess at least one "WOW!" trait. Size, speed, Football IQ, whatever it is. Some pan out (Shazier, Bryant, Tuitt, etc) and some have fizzled (Archer, Holliman). It isn't that they are ignoring production, but they kinda are.

The last 4 classes have been filled with just some eye raising athletes. It remains to be seen if all of them can manage to translate that into production on Sundays.

I guess the lesson of Jarvis Jones and numerous relatively slow and unexciting DB prospects drove a shift? I would love to know what the organizational thinking is/was - but I do strongly believe there has been some fundamental shift. Is that coming from Colbert? Tomlin? Not-Lebeau? Maybe it is as simple as not thinking they are one draft pick away from a SB appearance? No idea.

[Six Rings]

Since 2007, when Bill Cowher retired and Mike Tomlin was hired, there has been a great deal of disdain for the new coach, and a longing for the old.


One of the worst things about running a website dedicated to a fan base like the Pittsburgh Steelers is how ugly things can get at times. On the internet, there is very little accountability. You can say whatever you want, regardless of how ignorant, with little to no repercussions to your actions.

I should take this time to mention the large majority of the fan base does not fall into this category. Rather, they fall into the category of level-headed and respectful fans when it pertains to their favorite NFL football team.

However, despite the facts, which many choose to ignore, the one debate which simply won’t go away is the Bill Cowher vs. Mike Tomlin debate. Putting aside how silly it is to constantly debate the value of two coaches who both brought Lombardi trophies to the Steel City is beyond me, but people love to dive into this particular debate.

Therefore, I felt it was the appropriate time to put this to bed once and for all, or at least until the commenters hijack the comment section and it turns south in a hurry.

Most who argue Cowher over Tomlin love to point to stats. The only problem is Tomlin has only been coaching for 10 seasons. So, let’s take a look at the two coaches, after their first 10 seasons at the helm of the black and gold.



read more


https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...nfl-super-bowl

Cowher built, molded and drafted his team. He won with jokers at quarterback in Tomzack_Stewart_Miller_Graham...10 games a season with a very narrow margin for error. There's only so much you can do with sub par quarterbacks.


Tomlin would not last with those quarterbacks.


O'Donnell was above average, but he left quickly in free agency. Had he stayed I believe the Steelers would have played in another super bowl.


The Rooney's back them were cheap, partly due to an older three rivers stadium.


If you want stats, Cowher is 5-1 win a pre-prime Ben in the playoffs. Tomlin with Ben in his prime is barely over .500


Tomlin won with Cowher players early in his career and has disappointed a bit since, losing too often to sub .500 teams with too many upset losses in the playoffs relative to our talent.


Having said that the 2017 Steelers are loaded.


Super Bowl or bust!

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think Pouncey was a "bad" pick. Overall it was a good pick, actually. It just isn't a pick that makes me go "Holy shit, that was amazing!"

Truth be told, I don't know who would've been a better pick. But sometimes even the best player you can get with a certain pick in a certain year is not a "holy shit" type of value. It doesn't mean we blew it. Just that I think it was merely a very good pick and the draft overall was merely a good draft, not an out-of-this-world one. It certainly wasn't 2009, but it wasn't 2002 (a great draft in a different respect) either.

I also think there is a tendency to look at our roster and assume that if we didn't have that particular player, we would have one of the worst in the league instead. In reality, we would probably have an average player - that's what average means. Before Pouncey, we had two really shitty centers (three if you count Stapleton's cameo), so people think that's how it normally is. Same thing with kickers and punters for a while. And with our secondary recently. But that's not the result of trying to address the position and having average luck; it was the result of ignoring the position and also having bad luck. If you make a reasonable effort, you should expect to get a reasonable player, so I'm basing my assumptions on that instead of assuming, if we didn't have Pouncey, we'd have been complete fuckin' idiots about the offensive line again.

Anyway ... I think we're starting to fix things. Going down the board, we're starting to see a handful of serviceable players outside of the first couple picks, instead of Crezdon Butler and Justin Brown on repeat. The value of that to fill out your roster is incredible. For a long time, it was draft all low-skillcap positions with our high picks, and not all of those even worked out, and most of the other picks didn't either, and after every draft you walked away swearing and wondering why they were so stubborn. That was not a winning strategy. More recently, we've been using the high picks on different things and filling out the roster nicely with the others. A night and day difference from a few years ago.

Pouncey is injury prone and a bit over rated. I 'd rather spend 12 million a year elsewhere. A stud corner or safety would be nice!


A true impact player is badly missed. The " next man up " can't fill his shoes. If Ben or Hayward is out, the entire team feels it. When Pouncey is out, he's adequately replaced by a no-name free agent. So his value to me is lower than what Joe average fan says.


Playing on our OL, with Decastro, Gilbert, Big V, and Foster, good journeyman can be the center. That has been proven twice when Pouncey missed a significant amount of time.


His contract is up in 2019, I with his injury history and age, he'll retire or be playing for a lot less.

[polamalubeast]

This is true that the Steelers were almost unbeatable when Cowher had Roethlisberger as QB (27-4 including the playoffs in 2004 and 2005)

I don't count 2006 since Roethlisberger was horrible because of his accident.

[pczach]

Cowher built, molded and drafted his team. He won with jokers at quarterback in Tomzack_Stewart_Miller_Graham...10 games a season with a very narrow margin for error. There's only so much you can do with sub par quarterbacks.


Tomlin would not last with those quarterbacks.


O'Donnell was above average, but he left quickly in free agency. Had he stayed I believe the Steelers would have played in another super bowl.


The Rooney's back them were cheap, partly due to an older three rivers stadium.


If you want stats, Cowher is 5-1 win a pre-prime Ben in the playoffs. Tomlin with Ben in his prime is barely over .500


Tomlin won with Cowher players early in his career and has disappointed a bit since, losing too often to sub .500 teams with too many upset losses in the playoffs relative to our talent.


Having said that the 2017 Steelers are loaded.


Super Bowl or bust!

- - - Updated - - -

Why is it that Cowher gets credit for doing so much without a great quarterback, but gets no criticism for never being able to identify one or draft one.

Thank God he was forced to take Roethlisberger by Dan Rooney.

The other thing is that since Cowher never had a huge salary quarterback on the roster, he was able to load the roster with talent at all other positions. I love Cowher, but let's not romanticize only his strengths while ignoring his weaknesses.

Way too many people only focus on Tomlin's weaknesses and don't give him credit for his strengths.

The statement you made about Tomlin losing all those games would be the equivalent of me asking how many of those games Cowher would have won without a dominant defense, dominating offensive line, and a dominant running game? Answer: Probably zero

And for the record.....In 2006 Cowher sucked ass and stepped away from the game with Cowher's players.....while Tomlin won a Super Bowl with them as the offensive line turned to shit......Just sayin'

[GBMelBlount]

Very thankful this debate was put to bed. lol.

I think Ben is the X factor.

You can blame chin for not drafting a Ben, but 85% of teams don't draft a Ben no matter how hard they try.

Look at Cleveland.

[st33lersguy]

You can point out Tomlin and Cowher's weaknesses all you want, over half the NFL team's would love to have either one, or a coach at the level of either one. The Bengal bitches passed on Cowher and instead hired Dave Shula who in 4 seasons didn't record a winning season. You think Bengirl fans (or at least the very small percentage of them who aren't total morons) think they were better off with Shula because Cowher went 1-4 in home AFC Championship games or didn't do a good job in finding a solid QB?

[Six Rings]

Why is it that Cowher gets credit for doing so much without a great quarterback, but gets no criticism for never being able to identify one or draft one.

Thank God he was forced to take Roethlisberger by Dan Rooney.

The other thing is that since Cowher never had a huge salary quarterback on the roster, he was able to load the roster with talent at all other positions. I love Cowher, but let's not romanticize only his strengths while ignoring his weaknesses.

Way too many people only focus on Tomlin's weaknesses and don't give him credit for his strengths.

The statement you made about Tomlin losing all those games would be the equivalent of me asking how many of those games Cowher would have won without a dominant defense, dominating offensive line, and a dominant running game? Answer: Probably zero

And for the record.....In 2006 Cowher sucked ass and stepped away from the game with Cowher's players.....while Tomlin won a Super Bowl with them as the offensive line turned to shit......Just sayin'

To be in a position to draft a good QB, you have to spend first round pick, usually inside the top 25, and there has to be a player worth the value.


We lucked out Ben was still on the board, thanks to two other franchise level QB's that were picked earlier ( Manning and Rivers ) , and the Browns picking a Tight End over Ben!


Like I said before, the Steelers let O'Donnell get away. He was a decent passer, good with play action and not mistake prone. IF we had O'Donnell for a few more years, I see one more super bowl appearance.


Free agency in many of Cowher's years was a drain. Rooney can hide behind the lack of stadium money, but it's really on him.


This Rooney forced the Roethlisberger pick is bunk. Cowher had to be on board with it too.


2006 was a super bowl let down year. They happen often. Tomlin took over a super bowl stacked team, with an easy schedule. He made zero adjustments, and like Barry Switzer was just along for the ride.


Once the Cowher players got old or retired, we had back to back 8-8 seasons, and until recently Tomlin coached team were 1-4 in their last five playoff games.

[pczach]

To be in a position to draft a good QB, you have to spend first round pick, usually inside the top 25, and there has to be a player worth the value.


We lucked out Ben was still on the board, thanks to two other franchise level QB's that were picked earlier ( Manning and Rivers ) , and the Browns picking a Tight End over Ben!


Like I said before, the Steelers let O'Donnell get away. He was a decent passer, good with play action and not mistake prone. IF we had O'Donnell for a few more years, I see one more super bowl appearance.


Free agency in many of Cowher's years was a drain. Rooney can hide behind the lack of stadium money, but it's really on him.


This Rooney forced the Roethlisberger pick is bunk. Cowher had to be on board with it too.


2006 was a super bowl let down year. They happen often. Tomlin took over a super bowl stacked team, with an easy schedule. He made zero adjustments, and like Barry Switzer was just along for the ride.


Once the Cowher players got old or retired, we had back to back 8-8 seasons, and until recently Tomlin coached team were 1-4 in their last five playoff games.

Rooney absolutely insisted on the Roethlisberger pick. Cowher and Colbert were ready to draft offensive tackle Shawn Andrews. This has been known for years. Here's your "bunk".

http://thesportsdaily.com/the-sports...oethlisberger/


Somehow....you've managed to blame any shortcomings during the Cowher era on:

The Rooneys being cheap
Neil O'Donnell leaving
Free agency
Cowher had a Super Bowl let down year(I wonder why Tomlin isn't allowed one of those????)

By the way, not all great quarterbacks are drafted in the first 25 picks. Cowher and the Steelers passed on Drew Brees in the second round as well.

Also, comparing Tomlin to Barry Switzer is ridiculous and frankly...ignorant. If you think that's bolstering your argument, you are very sadly mistaken.

Tomlin has been a steady hand and inspirational leader in rebuilding this roster and were one game away from the Super Bowl last year with all but a few players that played for Cowher.......Yeah......Barry Switzer......

I love both of these coaches and feel very fortunate as a fan to have had both of them leading my team.

[teegre]

To be in a position to draft a good QB, you have to spend first round pick, usually inside the top 25, and there has to be a player worth the value.

Drew Brees
Chad Pennington



Cowher built his teams like the Ravens and Buccaneers: stroooong defense and a QB who was good enough. It was a very sound philosophy. Alas, his QB's simply weren't "good enough" in the playoffs.

This Rooney forced the Roethlisberger pick is bunk. Cowher had to be on board with it too.

Cowher was fine with Maddox and wanted Shawn Andrews. Rooney pulled rank.

He made zero adjustments, and like Barry Switzer was just along for the ride.

James Harrison's 100-yard interception return was a direct result of Tomlin's coaching.

Once the Cowher players got old or retired, we had back to back 8-8 seasons, and until recently Tomlin coached team were 1-4 in their last five playoff games.

Once all of Noll's players* starting getting old/retiring, Cowher had three straight awful seasons.

*(Dermontti Dawson, Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Eric Green, Adrian Cooper, Barry Foster, Justin Strzelczyk, John Jackson, Ernie Mills, Jerol Williams, Gerald Williams, Thomas Everett, Hardy Nickerson, Meril Hoge...)

[Born2Steel]

I don't think this debate is going to bed.

[polamalubeast]

Rooney absolutely insisted on the Roethlisberger pick. Cowher and Colbert were ready to draft offensive tackle Shawn Andrews. This has been known for years. Here's your "bunk".

http://thesportsdaily.com/the-sports...oethlisberger/


Somehow....you've managed to blame any shortcomings during the Cowher era on:

The Rooneys being cheap
Neil O'Donnell leaving
Free agency
Cowher had a Super Bowl let down year(I wonder why Tomlin isn't allowed one of those????)

By the way, not all great quarterbacks are drafted in the first 25 picks. Cowher and the Steelers passed on Drew Brees in the second round as well.

Also, comparing Tomlin to Barry Switzer is ridiculous and frankly...ignorant. If you think that's bolstering your argument, you are very sadly mistaken.

Tomlin has been a steady hand and inspirational leader in rebuilding this roster and were one game away from the Super Bowl last year with all but a few players that played for Cowher.......Yeah......Barry Switzer......

I love both of these coaches and feel very fortunate as a fan to have had both of them leading my team.

The only point I disagree with you is in bold, since it was obvious that in his last season, Cowher had lost his passion for coaching and the Roethlisberger accident was a big factor in our bad season in 2006.

I agree with you for the rest, the comparison with Barry Switzer would have been valid only if the steelers would have continued to be bad after the 2013 season.

[GBMelBlount]

I don't think this debate is going to bed.

Looks like another all nighter.

[st33lersguy]

2006 was a super bowl let down year. They happen often. Tomlin took over a super bowl stacked team, with an easy schedule. He made zero adjustments, and like Barry Switzer was just along for the ride.

You may have had a point here had Barry Switzer made 3 straight postseason appearances with predominantly players drafted after he took over as head coach or made an AFC Championship game with 2 rookies starting in the secondary, a third on the D-line, without his defensive captain or no. 2 wide receiver, or if he went 10 seasons without a losing season, but he didn't. Instead Switzer took his team from a Super Bowl champion to a 6-10 4th place team in only 2 years while still having a lot of the key pieces from the Dallas Super Bowl runs before getting canned

This is coming from someone who admittedly used the Tomlin won only with Cowher's players line after the 8-8 seasons and when they were stuck hovering around .500 early in 2014.

Also where did the easy schedule line come from? The Steelers had one of the hardest schedules in the league when they won the 08 Super Bowl

[Craic]

Also where did the easy schedule line come from? The Steelers had one of the hardest schedules in the league when they won the 08 Super Bowl

Yep, only the Browns, Bengals, and Bears had a harder schedule. And, my guess is, the Browns and Bengals had a harder schedule because they had to play the Steelers. In the other SB season (2010), the Steelers had the 10th hardest schedule, again with the the Bengals and Browns having a tougher schedule, probably because they had to play the Steelers.

[st33lersguy]

Yep, only the Browns, Bengals, and Bears had a harder schedule. And, my guess is, the Browns and Bengals had a harder schedule because they had to play the Steelers. In the other SB season (2010), the Steelers had the 10th hardest schedule, again with the the Bengals and Browns having a tougher schedule, probably because they had to play the Steelers.

Yep 2008 they played the NFC East which had no team finish with a losing record, the AFC South which had 1 team finish with a losing record and 2 teams with 12+ wins, the Patriots at 11 wins plus the 2 regular season games against the 11-5 Rats (plus the AFC Championship game). They also played both no. 1 seeds that year.

2010, the had to go against the NFC South which had 3 teams win 10 games or more, the AFC East which unusually had 2 teams win 11 games or more, and 2 regular season games against 12-4 Baltimore (plus the AFC Divisional round game). Again they played both no. 1 seeds

[pczach]

The only point I disagree with you is in bold, since it was obvious that in his last season, Cowher had lost his passion for coaching and the Roethlisberger accident was a big factor in our bad season in 2006.

I agree with you for the rest, the comparison with Barry Switzer would have been valid only if the steelers would have continued to be bad after the 2013 season.

That wasn't my reasoning.

I was quoting the reasons that Six Rings listed for anything negative that happened during Cowher's tenure as head coach.

[pczach]

Drew Brees
Chad Pennington



Cowher built his teams like the Ravens and Buccaneers: stroooong defense and a QB who was good enough. It was a very sound philosophy. Alas, his QB's simply weren't "good enough" in the playoffs.



Cowher was fine with Maddox and wanted Shawn Andrews. Rooney pulled rank.



James Harrison's 100-yard interception return was a direct result of Tomlin's coaching.




Once all of Noll's players* starting getting old/retiring, Cowher had three straight awful seasons.

*(Dermontti Dawson, Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson, Carnell Lake, Eric Green, Adrian Cooper, Barry Foster, Justin Strzelczyk, John Jackson, Ernie Mills, Jerol Williams, Gerald Williams, Thomas Everett, Hardy Nickerson, Meril Hoge...)

He is not able to take his own logic that he uses to criticize Tomlin and apply it to Cowher.

In his mind, those are all Cowher's players...not Noll's.

He just doesn't see it because he doesn't want to.

[Mojouw]

Cowher arguably bridges NFL eras. He started out when defense and a running game could bring a Lombardi. He finished when you needed a QB. Tomlin has never had the luxury of NOT needing an elite QB. It makes comparison difficult but not impossible.

Long story short, I think they have more in common than they have different. Likely one of the factors that lead the Rooneys to Tomlin.

Either one could've won in any era, but we'll never really know.

Bottom line, fortunate to have this debate. Could've been Rich Kotite or Chip Kelly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Born2Steel]

Cowher arguably bridges NFL eras. He started out when defense and a running game could bring a Lombardi. He finished when you needed a QB. Tomlin has never had the luxury of NOT needing an elite QB. It makes comparison difficult but not impossible.

Long story short, I think they have more in common than they have different. Likely one of the factors that lead the Rooneys to Tomlin.

Either one could've won in any era, but we'll never really know.

Bottom line, fortunate to have this debate. Could've been Rich Kotite or Chip Kelly.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Or....Forrest Gregg or Sam Wyche