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Thread: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

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    Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Keith Butler building the Steelers defense to blitz Tom Brady into oblivion

    Pittsburgh’s offseason blueprint is no secret: build to beat Brady.

    Tom Brady and his Patriots defeated Pittsburgh twice last season, including in the AFC Championship game. In that game, a 36-17 win for New England, Brady abused Pittsburgh’s base-but-not-actually-their-base Cover 2 defense, completing 76 percent of his passes and throwing for 384 yards and three touchdowns. New England won the Super Bowl, and then spent the majority of the offseason unloading and restocking talent, just as Bill Belichick is wont to do. At worst, New England is no worse than they were six months ago, which indicates that the road to Super Bowl LII will probably run through Foxborough.

    The Steelers, as the near-consensus second-best team in the AFC, are once again New England’s primary challenger. Keith Butler is rightfully concerned about the Patriots’ offense, which has led him to adopt a candidly straightforward, but refreshingly conventional defensive strategy: pressure Brady until he starts spewing profanities at his offensive line (which, as a brief aside, seems kind of like something Brady would do, anyway).

    (Continued)

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...livion-tj-watt
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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    My prediction is the Steelers will rush 3 and hope Brady makes a mistake.
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Blitz or the zone against Brady is very stupid...

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    My prediction is the Steelers will rush 3 and hope Brady makes a mistake.
    My hope is they are unpredictable enough with regard to when and where pressure is coming from to be highly effective and disruptive.

    I also hope we save some of these stunts for the playoffs, assuming we have the luxury of doing so...
    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    My prediction is the Steelers will rush 3 and hope Brady makes a mistake.


    Brady has not made a mistake(INT) against the steelers in the last 10 years.

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    If you were the head coach of the Steelers, would you ask your players to start studying and preparing for the Patriots now?
    "With love, with patience, and with Faith
    ....She'll make her way" ~ Natalie Merchant

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    Keith Butler building the Steelers defense to blitz Tom Brady into oblivion

    Pittsburgh’s offseason blueprint is no secret: build to beat Brady.

    Tom Brady and his Patriots defeated Pittsburgh twice last season, including in the AFC Championship game. In that game, a 36-17 win for New England, Brady abused Pittsburgh’s base-but-not-actually-their-base Cover 2 defense, completing 76 percent of his passes and throwing for 384 yards and three touchdowns. New England won the Super Bowl, and then spent the majority of the offseason unloading and restocking talent, just as Bill Belichick is wont to do. At worst, New England is no worse than they were six months ago, which indicates that the road to Super Bowl LII will probably run through Foxborough.

    The Steelers, as the near-consensus second-best team in the AFC, are once again New England’s primary challenger. Keith Butler is rightfully concerned about the Patriots’ offense, which has led him to adopt a candidly straightforward, but refreshingly conventional defensive strategy: pressure Brady until he starts spewing profanities at his offensive line (which, as a brief aside, seems kind of like something Brady would do, anyway).

    (Continued)

    https://www.behindthesteelcurtain.co...livion-tj-watt

    Butler and Tomlin should know by now that a soft zone is NOT going to work. You have to go after Brady, and play tighter coverage.

    Beating Brady is one thing, being out coached is another.

    Having said that i want Home field the next time we play the cheaters in the playoffs. And a healthy Bell, Bryant and Heyward would help too!

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Six Rings View Post
    Butler and Tomlin should know by now that a soft zone is NOT going to work. You have to go after Brady, and play tighter coverage.

    Beating Brady is one thing, being out coached is another.

    Having said that i want Home field the next time we play the cheaters in the playoffs. And a healthy Bell, Bryant and Heyward would help too!

    The steelers will surely not have the homefield if we play against the pats in the playoffs....I expect the pats to have at least 13-14 wins this year.

    Anyway, it's more important than the way the steelers play against them than the homefield.If the game would have been in Pittsburgh in 2016, the result would have been the same with the way the steelers played.

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    The Giants, Falcons, Broncos and anyone else who's had success against Brady have laid out the formula plain as day. Cover everyone tight for the first 2-3 seconds and Brady becomes a regular quarterback. Your rush needs to be getting there about that time too, before munchkins start getting open. Then the safeties need to be on point taking away the deep garbage ball, instead of turning around awkwardly in space and leaving some unathletic receiver wide open way down the field.

    So basically Cover 2, man under, with four rushers doing a halfway decent job (this becomes much easier if you don't telegraph "here are the four guys who are rushing, try to block them" - "lol, ok, thanks for the tip!")

    Why we, or anyone, sees this being implemented successfully over a stretch of years and then decides, "you know, what the fuck, let's do the opposite and play soft zone! YOLO!!!" is beyond me. This is not genius.
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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    As a reporter of Boston said, the fact that now we want to play man to man coverage, we are late in the party!!!

    Of course, some players and coaches will say that the steelers have always practiced man to man coverage, but I don't believe in that.

    It took an embarrassing defeat against the pats in playoffs for than we realize that we have to play man to man more often, even if the steelers have rarely been competitive against pats with Brady under Tomlin.

    This is obvious that now the pats are in the heads of the players of the steelers, but I am correct with that, since it is probably the team that the steelers must beat to go for the super bowl.Remember in 2011, the steelers were in the head of the players of the ravens since the Ravens were 0-6 against Roethlisberger between 2008 to 2010 and it changed since.

    Let's hope it will be the same for us against the Pats.

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    You guys are a broken record. Its getting hilarious the level of obsession this is reaching.

    Under Tomlin-Lebeau the Steelers rarely had the personnel to play man coverage. There was a brief stretch where Harrison and Woodley supplied enough pass rush that they could pull someone else into coverage. Plus man coverage went against what Lebeau philosophically believed about defensive football. Whether that philosophy was right, wrong, outdated, or whatever is another debate entirely.

    Tomlin-Butler is bringing in a totally different "flavor" of the 3-4 that appears to want to incorporate more man coverage and other non-Lebeau elements. Burns, Sutton, Shazier, Hargrave, Tuitt, Davis, Golson, Dupree, Feeney, etc are all player types that would not have been drafted under the previous defensive model. But rebuilds and renovations take time.

    Multiple discussions with Butler in the past month have documented that he knew that match-up zone was not the most ideal plan against the Pats. However, when you are (unexpectedly) in the AFCCG with a young and inexperienced defense, that was not felt to be the time to completely change the defense. We can now argue that this was a bad strategic decision, but it wasn't made because the coaching staff are a bunch of drooling morons either. And comments about building in more man coverages are not some post-facto CYA statement either.

    In 2017 - IF everyone stays healthy. IF Watt and Dupree can get pressure on their own outside of overloads and fancy blitzes. IF the young DBs all step up. THEN the Steelers finally have the horses on defense to play the man coverage pass rush heavy style that everyone from Tomlin, to Butler, to the fans wants to see.

    Why does that simple fact get so complicated and bent out of shape around here? You can only do so much on defense when you are missing key pieces or those pieces have like 14 games of NFL experience. Man focused coverages are still going to be difficult for this team and potentially prone to breakdown because they really don't have an ideal dime defender. Golden, Dangerfield, Gay have all struggled in that role. The cast-off from TEnnessee is no great prize either.

    The two most man coverage focused teams of the past handful of years, the Seahawks and the Broncos were able to do that because they had 2 things - 3-5 all world DBs, and a phenomenal pass rush. Since about 2009 or so, the Steelers can not say the same thing.

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    The steelers do not need to have a defense at the level of the seahawks or Broncos of the past.They just need a defense capable of forcing the opponent to do some punt or turnovers against elite offense.The problem is that every time we play against the pats,the pats score almost every drive and our offense has zero margin of error.

    The Falcons defense is far from being a good defense, but they did a good job against the pats offense, the problem is that the falcons offense did not control the clock when they had the lead and their defense was on the field For 93 plays, when in normal times a defense is on the field for 60-65 plays!

    Yet the Falcons defense were in a much worse situation than the steelers defense after the 2014 season, which was the arrival of Keith Butler as our DC and Dan Quinn as HC in Atlanta.

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    The steelers do not need to have a defense at the level of the seahawks or Broncos of the past.They just need a defense capable of forcing the opponent to do some punt or turnovers against elite offense.The problem is that every time we play against the pats,the pats score almost every drive and our offense has zero margin of error.

    The Falcons defense is far from being a good defense, but they did a good job against the pats offense, the problem is that the falcons offense did not control the clock when they had the lead and their defense was on the field For 93 plays, when in normal times a defense is on the field for 60-65 plays!

    Yet the Falcons defense were in a much worse situation than the steelers defense after the 2014 season, which was the arrival of Keith Butler as our DC and Dan Quinn as HC in Atlanta.
    Either way, the Falcons defense is one of the most talented in the league top to bottom. http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/01/18/f...tlanta-defense

    Neal, Collins, Trufant, Beasely are more impactful than anything the Steelers currently have. Can Burns, Davis, Shazier, and Dupree maybe equal or eclipse that as soon as this season? Perhaps.

    Not certain what world the Atlanta defense isn't good let alone "far from good" Beasley had 15.5 sacks last year?

    I know I'm grumpy today and am in one of those moods, but does anyone on here watch other NFL football without wearing black and gold colored glasses? Atlanta's defense, is young, fast, and built for the 21st century NFL. They are absolutely terrifying.

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    They have almost all acquired this young talent since 2015 I think....Before 2015, the falcons defense was almost worse than the Saints defense under Rob Ryan !!!!

    All this to say that it is no excuse that the steelers defense was not able to play man to man defense after 2 seasons with Keith Butler when the Falcons defense was able to be much improve especially in the last 9 games including the playoffs in 2016 after also 2 seasons with Dan Quinn despite that the falcons defense was atrocious,soft and almost no talent before 2015.

    Why does it always take more time with the steelers than some other teams?

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    They have almost all acquired this young talent since 2015 I think....Before 2015, the falcons defense was almost worse than the Saints defense under Rob Ryan !!!!

    All this to say that it is no excuse that the steelers defense was not able to play man to man defense after 2 seasons with Keith Butler when the Falcons defense was able to be much improve especially in the last 9 games including the playoffs in 2016 after also 2 seasons with Dan Quinn despite that the falcons defense was atrocious,soft and almost no talent before 2015.

    Why does it always take more time with the steelers than some other teams?
    Probably because half their starting secondary wasn't drafted until 2016. Plus the Falcons defense may have played better in the postseason, but they still surrendered over 400 points during the regular season

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    They have almost all acquired this young talent since 2015 I think....Before 2015, the falcons defense was almost worse than the Saints defense under Rob Ryan !!!!

    All this to say that it is no excuse that the steelers defense was not able to play man to man defense after 2 seasons with Keith Butler when the Falcons defense was able to be much improve especially in the last 9 games including the playoffs in 2016 after also 2 seasons with Dan Quinn despite that the falcons defense was atrocious,soft and almost no talent before 2015.

    Why does it always take more time with the steelers than some other teams?
    http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/ful...0200&type=team

    Because the Steelers rarely repeatedly draft inside the top 15, let alone the top 10. When they do they get amazing players that fuel SB runs as well (Ben and Troy). It takes longer when you are drafting 17-30 every year. At that point, even in the first round, any player you take has flaws and warts to coach up.

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    You guys are a broken record. Its getting hilarious the level of obsession this is reaching.

    Under Tomlin-Lebeau the Steelers rarely had the personnel to play man coverage. There was a brief stretch where Harrison and Woodley supplied enough pass rush that they could pull someone else into coverage. Plus man coverage went against what Lebeau philosophically believed about defensive football. Whether that philosophy was right, wrong, outdated, or whatever is another debate entirely.

    Tomlin-Butler is bringing in a totally different "flavor" of the 3-4 that appears to want to incorporate more man coverage and other non-Lebeau elements. Burns, Sutton, Shazier, Hargrave, Tuitt, Davis, Golson, Dupree, Feeney, etc are all player types that would not have been drafted under the previous defensive model. But rebuilds and renovations take time.

    Multiple discussions with Butler in the past month have documented that he knew that match-up zone was not the most ideal plan against the Pats. However, when you are (unexpectedly) in the AFCCG with a young and inexperienced defense, that was not felt to be the time to completely change the defense. We can now argue that this was a bad strategic decision, but it wasn't made because the coaching staff are a bunch of drooling morons either. And comments about building in more man coverages are not some post-facto CYA statement either.

    In 2017 - IF everyone stays healthy. IF Watt and Dupree can get pressure on their own outside of overloads and fancy blitzes. IF the young DBs all step up. THEN the Steelers finally have the horses on defense to play the man coverage pass rush heavy style that everyone from Tomlin, to Butler, to the fans wants to see.

    Why does that simple fact get so complicated and bent out of shape around here? You can only do so much on defense when you are missing key pieces or those pieces have like 14 games of NFL experience. Man focused coverages are still going to be difficult for this team and potentially prone to breakdown because they really don't have an ideal dime defender. Golden, Dangerfield, Gay have all struggled in that role. The cast-off from TEnnessee is no great prize either.

    The two most man coverage focused teams of the past handful of years, the Seahawks and the Broncos were able to do that because they had 2 things - 3-5 all world DBs, and a phenomenal pass rush. Since about 2009 or so, the Steelers can not say the same thing.
    Idk where you get that it was unexpected for us to be in the AFCG last year? The team was one of the most confident teams heading into the playoffs and wouldn't have surprised anyone if we landed in the Super Bowl, so I don't agree with you on that. However, I do agree with you on not being able to run man because of our personnel. The coaches would run man if they thought this team was capable and obviously they were not. These coaches aren't morons. What a lot of you don't understand is that when running man to man, one small mistake can give an opponent a 70 yard TD. Man to man is very susceptible to the big play and that would be demoralizing against a team like the Pats. We had to play it safe and try to keep everything in front in our zone defense because that's what gave us the best chance of winning with our personnel. Fast forward to this season and we now have an extra pass rusher as well as a CB who is known to stick to WRs hips very well. That's 2 steps in the right direction to being able to run man to man to beat Brady.
    Last edited by RunNGun; 06-17-2017 at 08:29 PM.

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Try to play more man coverage = maybe fail

    Play soft zone = guaranteed fail

    I don't understand what the argument is for doing the second?

    No, making a half-assed attempt at kind of playing some press coverage and then giving up after a couple series because of one guy did not count, so spare me the "omg see we tried but we don't have the personnel!" I don't care if we were ill-suited to it, nothing could have gone worse than the soft zone, so what exactly were we hoping for?

    By the way, the formula for beating Brady is not "play man" as in play straight-up man coverage the entire time, requiring 3-4 ace DBs who are all 6'3" track stars. It's more like "be in the receivers' face for 2 or 3 seconds" man coverage and then do whatever you can, which any defender who belongs in the NFL should at least be able to attempt. All you're trying to do is deny him the scripted cheap quick routes that are 95% of his success. Make him hold on to the ball that long and their offense not too scary, he's just a regular QB when he has to go off-script.

    That's all you're trying to do, and if you don't have the perfect personnel or the perfect game plan for it, guess what, you do it anyway, because if you just let him play his game you just guarantee an auto-loss.
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    Senior Member Array title="RunNGun has a reputation beyond repute"> RunNGun's Avatar

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    I don't disagree. They should have at least tried, but the the fact that they didn't tells me they had no faith in running man against the Pats whatsoever. But yeah, I would have liked to see it anyways, but the coaches know more than us you would think.

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    They have almost all acquired this young talent since 2015 I think....Before 2015, the falcons defense was almost worse than the Saints defense under Rob Ryan !!!!

    All this to say that it is no excuse that the steelers defense was not able to play man to man defense after 2 seasons with Keith Butler when the Falcons defense was able to be much improve especially in the last 9 games including the playoffs in 2016 after also 2 seasons with Dan Quinn despite that the falcons defense was atrocious,soft and almost no talent before 2015.

    Why does it always take more time with the steelers than some other teams?
    Agree somewhat. The Falcons defense is still terrible against the run. We are not. And we have been very good against the run for a while now. Against the Brady run offense nobody has been good, just a fact. You cannot build to beat any one team. That philosophy does not work, regardless of what the offseason football reporter wants to do stories about. We have a very good defense right now. This same defense is going to take strides forward this season. This may or may not be enough to dethrone the enemy. But one thing is for sure, we will be a better defense.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    Try to play more man coverage = maybe fail

    Play soft zone = guaranteed fail

    I don't understand what the argument is for doing the second?

    No, making a half-assed attempt at kind of playing some press coverage and then giving up after a couple series because of one guy did not count, so spare me the "omg see we tried but we don't have the personnel!" I don't care if we were ill-suited to it, nothing could have gone worse than the soft zone, so what exactly were we hoping for?

    By the way, the formula for beating Brady is not "play man" as in play straight-up man coverage the entire time, requiring 3-4 ace DBs who are all 6'3" track stars. It's more like "be in the receivers' face for 2 or 3 seconds" man coverage and then do whatever you can, which any defender who belongs in the NFL should at least be able to attempt. All you're trying to do is deny him the scripted cheap quick routes that are 95% of his success. Make him hold on to the ball that long and their offense not too scary, he's just a regular QB when he has to go off-script.

    That's all you're trying to do, and if you don't have the perfect personnel or the perfect game plan for it, guess what, you do it anyway, because if you just let him play his game you just guarantee an auto-loss.
    The problem here is putting all the emphasis on pass defense. Once we become great at stopping the pass, they start exploiting your run defense. This defense will be better this season. Good enough remains to be seen, but will be better. Steps, take time.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The ONLY part of this defense that I don't see improved is at safety and ILB. EVERYWHERE ELSE WE HAVE IMPROVED. Let the process be the process.

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by RunNGun View Post
    I don't disagree. They should have at least tried, but the the fact that they didn't tells me they had no faith in running man against the Pats whatsoever. But yeah, I would have liked to see it anyways, but the coaches know more than us you would think.
    You would think. On the other hand, before the first play of the first drive, I said, "If we do X as our game plan we will get blown out," and then we proceeded to do X and we got blown out. So while I may not be any good at most aspects of coaching a football team, such as running a practice or breaking down film, in this case, yes, it seems that my plan was better than what the coaches came up with. Hard to rest on their credentials when they just put out an F-minus-minus.
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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    The Pass defense is more important than the run defense.

    The only thing that is important in your run defense is not to be horrible.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Agree somewhat. The Falcons defense is still terrible against the run. We are not. And we have been very good against the run for a while now. Against the Brady run offense nobody has been good, just a fact. You cannot build to beat any one team. That philosophy does not work, regardless of what the offseason football reporter wants to do stories about. We have a very good defense right now. This same defense is going to take strides forward this season. This may or may not be enough to dethrone the enemy. But one thing is for sure, we will be a better defense.

    You can build a defense to contain elite pass defense as Seattle did during their dominance.

    The majority of super bowl contender has a very good QB, so it's important to be able to do a good job against his QB, otherwise if they are not competitive against them we have no chance to be a true super bowl contender.

  23. #23
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    Post Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    The Pass defense is more important than the run defense.

    The only thing that is important in your run defense is not to be horrible.

    - - - Updated - - -




    You can build a defense to contain elite pass defense as Seattle did during their dominance.

    The majority of super bowl contender has a very good QB, so it's important to be able to do a good job against his QB, otherwise if they are not competitive against them we have no chance to be a true super bowl contender.
    Brady, protected by the Great Wall of China.



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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    That ball look a little flat to anyone else?

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    That ball look a little flat to anyone else?
    If by flat, you mean metrosexual douche, then yes.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: Blitz Brady into Oblivion?

    Brady should visit North Korea next. I'd chip in.

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