Let Villaneuva Go?

[GBMelBlount]

Our currently offensive line is one of the 3 most expensive* in the nfl despite Villaneuva only costing us $615,000 this season.

I also believe we have the most expensive* offense in the NFL.

As upsetting as it sounds, and despite him being one of my favorite players, how can we afford to sign Villaneuva to another long term contract when the average left guard makes 10 million?

Thoughts?

* - Pretty sure

---------------------------------------

With just over three months to the start of the regular season, the Pittsburgh Steelers are faced with a number of contractual decisions. However, for the local media, players and fans, it is the contract of one specific individual that has them concerned. Everyone wants to see Alejandro Villanueva signed to a long-term deal this offseason.

Despite all the noise coming from outside the organization, very little has been heard from the front office or Villanueva. The last time Kevin Colbert addressed the matter was in March when speaking with the media at the NFL Scouting Combine. Joe Rutter of Trib Live reported a fairly non-committal response to questions about an extension for Villanueva from Colbert:

(continued)

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/201...-for-steelers/

[ALLD]

Would you rather go back to the days of a value priced OL with BB running for his life? He would probably go down to injury early and run out his contract.

[st33lersguy]

He's a good player and good story and I would make an attempt to re-sign him. However, I would try and get Tuitt and Bell signed first, and if he went elsewhere, Mike Munchak has been working wonders and I am confident he could coach the next man up to a stellar job as well

[GBMelBlount]

He's a good player and good story and I would make an attempt to re-sign him.

However, I would try and get Tuitt and Bell signed first, and if he went elsewhere,

Mike Munchak has been working wonders and I am confident he could coach the next man up to a stellar job as well

These are all my first thoughts too.

[Shoes]

No, no way they let him go and for this reason.

The Steelers have been fortunate so far with Villanueva, who has remained healthy, but they have a long history in recent years of having their tackles go down with injuries for some stretch of the year

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/06...lean-cut-otas/

No OT=No Ben

[86WARD]

Uh no.

[DesertSteel]

Steelers have the leverage. Sign him for what they gave Gilbert. Worst case we keep him for two two years on the cheap.

[Dwinsgames]

Our currently offensive line is one of the 3 most expensive* in the nfl despite Villaneuva only costing us $615,000 this season.

I also believe we have the most expensive* offense in the NFL.

As upsetting as it sounds, and despite him being one of my favorite players, how can we afford to sign Villaneuva to another long term contract when the average left guard makes 10 million?

Thoughts?

* - Pretty sure

---------------------------------------

With just over three months to the start of the regular season, the Pittsburgh Steelers are faced with a number of contractual decisions. However, for the local media, players and fans, it is the contract of one specific individual that has them concerned. Everyone wants to see Alejandro Villanueva signed to a long-term deal this offseason.

Despite all the noise coming from outside the organization, very little has been heard from the front office or Villanueva. The last time Kevin Colbert addressed the matter was in March when speaking with the media at the NFL Scouting Combine. Joe Rutter of Trib Live reported a fairly non-committal response to questions about an extension for Villanueva from Colbert:

(continued)

http://steelerswire.usatoday.com/201...-for-steelers/

its pretty simple how we do it ..

1) we have him locked up on our terms for 2 years as it stands ... exclusive rights free agent this year and next year he will be a restricted free agent so if another team goes after him we have right of first refusal ( we can match the offer ) and if we choose not to we get a draft pick of the round we designate via the tender offer ...

2) we can give him a long term deal because of the above , he is set to make lowball wages and by the time he is done with those 2 years he will be 30 years old ( not exactly prime age to get a big $ long term deal from anyone )
so if we offer him a 5 year deal worth 30 million that is dirt cheap for us considering his position and level of play YET it is as much as he would probably make by playing for peanuts for 2 years and getting a 3 year deal later elsewhere ...

the incentive for him signing the deal proposed is job security , ability to put down roots as well as stay where he wants ( his words ) to be .... and it also allows him to live a lavish lifestyle whereas now he lives good but not incredibly good

so the question really is does he want his money now and stay here or does he want to live a less lavish life and get his money later and perhaps be in a place he would rather not be

much like the Willie Parker deal

good article on it here http://www.steelers.com/news/labriol...b-93ebeff3b1aa

[Shoes]

its pretty simple how we do it ..

1) we have him locked up on our terms for 2 years as it stands ... exclusive rights free agent this year and next year he will be a restricted free agent so if another team goes after him we have right of first refusal ( we can match the offer ) and if we choose not to we get a draft pick of the round we designate via the tender offer ...

2) we can give him a long term deal because of the above , he is set to make lowball wages and by the time he is done with those 2 years he will be 30 years old ( not exactly prime age to get a big $ long term deal from anyone )
so if we offer him a 5 year deal worth 30 million that is dirt cheap for us considering his position and level of play YET it is as much as he would probably make by playing for peanuts for 2 years and getting a 3 year deal later elsewhere ...

the incentive for him signing the deal proposed is job security , ability to put down roots as well as stay where he wants ( his words ) to be .... and it also allows him to live a lavish lifestyle whereas now he lives good but not incredibly good

so the question really is does he want his money now and stay here or does he want to live a less lavish life and get his money later and perhaps be in a place he would rather not be

much like the Willie Parker deal

good article on it here http://www.steelers.com/news/labriol...b-93ebeff3b1aa

Indeed, when you consider the Steelers dropped about 50m on Cortez Allen & L Green for doing nothing.

[Born2Steel]

Hawkins is next man up. It will be what it needs to be.

[GBMelBlount]

Hawkins is next man up. It will be what it needs to be.

Whatever the final numbers are, I am hopeful we don't tie up so much money in our offense that we can't keep our defense intact when the currently young and promising players on defense come up for new contracts.

[BlackAndGold]

I hope they get a deal done. He's too good to let him just walk.

But they are really high on Hawkins.

[ALLD]

If they offer him $30m he should take it as long as it's guaranteed. I wouldn't walk away from that.

[steelreserve]

No reason to let him go when we can keep him for cheap. If they can't get something worked out for Gilbert money, two years for a total of $4-5M still looks pretty good for us, and we'll find a replacement if we have to.

Remember, Villanueva is himself a replacement for a 7th-round guy who was a stopgap replacement. I have faith in Munchak.

[GBMelBlount]

Hawkins is next man up. It will be what it needs to be.

Here is a nice article on Hawkins' progress.

Hawkins impressed coaches throughout the offseason and training camp last year, but a shoulder injury landed him on injured reserve before his rookie season even started. Hawkins, a fourth round draft choice in the 2016 NFL Draft who was encouraged to stay at LSU another season, is raw, but also extremely talented. If the Steelers sign Villanueva for anything more than a 3-year deal, they would also have to think about giving Hawkins a new deal after his rookie contract expires.

By all accounts this offseason, Hawkins is both getting comfortable, and impressing yet again.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com...d-the-steelers

[86WARD]

That article doesn't really tell how Hawkins would do in a game against real NFL DEs...

[polamalubeast]

I prefer to pay Tuitt, Bell, Shazier and even Bryant on the franchise tag in 2019 if Martavis is dominant in the next 2 years.

[AtlantaDan]

Rather than just say nothing, media day for Villanueva to get out his position

Left tackle Alejandro Villanueva said he doesn't know what his options are if his agent and the Steelers don't work out a long-term contract.For now, Villanueva remains without a contract entering next week's mandatory minicamp. Asked whether he'll attend, Villanueva said the only certainty in life is he'll go fishing on Sunday permitting good weather.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...burgh-steelers



“After taking orders my whole life, now I’m working with a really good agent,” the former Army Ranger captain said. “I’ll do whatever he tells me to do.”...

He would not commit to being here for next week’s mandatory minicamp or even training camp, although his willingness to practice during the voluntary portion should indicate that he will.

“Being part of the Steelers is unbelievable,” Villanueva said. “It’s awesome, it’s a great building, I love everybody here. ... But being an employee of the NFL is somewhat challenging. I don’t have a part or say in all the things that go on.”

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201706080148



Villanueva also wouldn't commit to being at St. Vincent on July 27 when the Steelers report for training camp.

“I don't know,” Villanueva said. “That's not my issue to solve. That's a negotiation that's between my agent and the front office. I'm in a much better position than I was two years ago in terms of my education and things I've accomplished in my life that allow me to have some job security.” ...

“I'm obviously trying to be a Steeler,” Villanueva said, “but it's something my agent and the Steelers will have to sort out.”

http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/...o-be-a-steeler

[WCSteeler]

Would you rather go back to the days of a value priced OL with BB running for his life? He would probably go down to injury early and run out his contract.

Why doesn't this site have a 'Like" button?

[FrancoLambert]

Acquire a project player....develop him into a solid OT.....then let him go.

[AtlantaDan]

Acquire a project player....develop him into a solid OT.....then let him go.

Steelers might figure they plugged in Villanueva when Beachum went down after Beachum would not take their contract offer so why not try that tactic again?

You start to believe your own ability to do it again if you did it before - like the Pirates figuring they were able to build a pitching staff by constantly taking pitchers off the scrap heap and coaching them up until that business model crashed in 2016

[86WARD]

Cause that normally doesn't work for them.

[FrancoLambert]

Steelers might figure they plugged in Villanueva when Beachum went down after Beachum would not take their contract offer so why not try that tactic again?

You start to believe your own ability to do it again if you did it before - like the Pirates figuring they were able to build a pitching staff by constantly taking pitchers off the scrap heap and coaching them up until that business model crashed in 2016

IMO it would be a mistake to let AV go. I view AV's (yet to be determined) ceiling much higher than Beachum's (already reached) ceiling. I was never a believer that Beachum was a long term answer at OT.

They got lucky.

As you said Dan, just because it worked once doesn't mean it will work again.

AV's got size, intelligence, a strong work ethic, outstanding character, and the desire to get better.

Nothing's missing besides money in his pocket.

[AtlantaDan]

Cause that normally doesn't work for them.

Not certain if that was in response to my post about plugging in projects and coaching them up not working forever

Works out with receivers but certainly has not worked with bargain picks in the secondary

With regard to the OL, it was a dumpster fire until the Steelers began spending high draft choices on O-linemen, starting with Pouncey in the 2010 first round - Munchak is a great position coach, but it was not just a matter of coaching up projects across the board that turned that group around

My guess is they work something out with Villanueva, but if you consistently think you can make chicken salad out of chicken s**t you usually end up wasting time and end up with chicken s**t

[Count Steeler]

Not certain if that was in response to my post about plugging in projects and coaching them up not working forever

Works out with receivers but certainly has not worked with bargain picks in the secondary

With regard to the OL, it was a dumpster fire until the Steelers began spending high draft choices on O-linemen, starting with Pouncey in the 2010 first round - Munchak is a great position coach, but it was not just a matter of coaching up projects across the board that turned that group around

My guess is they work something out with Villanueva, but if you consistently think you can make chicken salad out of chicken s**t you usually end up wasting time and end up with chicken s**t

It was a dumpster fire until Munchak took over from Bicknell and Kugler. It was amazing how the injuries went way down and the O Line performance went way up after Munchak started. The pieces were already here, Munchak was able to put them together.

[steelreserve]

It was a dumpster fire until Munchak took over from Bicknell and Kugler. It was amazing how the injuries went way down and the O Line performance went way up after Munchak started. The pieces were already here, Munchak was able to put them together.

Exactly. What we had before Munchak was a line of all first and second-round picks that still sucked. Not only did he get that figured out, the fourth through seventh-round guys who had been washing out before without even seeing the field, now were turning into competent backups and role players, even starters.

It's not a question of, we got lucky with two good LTs in a row and now we think they grow on trees. More like, we finally got a guy in there who knows what the hell he's doing and there's a huge difference, and you don't need all blue-chip talents earning $10 million a year to make a functioning OL.

I'd rather not let Villeneuva go if we don't have to, but if we do, I don't think it's the end of the world. Regardless, we have him at least 2-3 years and there's nothing anyone can do about it unless they want to give us a first-round pick, so no use hurting ourselves.

[teegre]

Not to take anything away from Munchak... but...

In his own words, Munchak has averred that this is the most talented group of O-linemen that he's ever had to work with. Munchak is extremely good (EXTREMELY) at developing talent and/or bringing the talent to the forefront, but there has to be talent there to begin with.

You'all can lambast AV all you want, but he does indeed have upper-echelon talent. It would be a shame to let him go... and expect "anyone" to do just as good of a job (you know... like Mike Adams).

[steelreserve]

We shouldn't let him go, but we also don't have any reason to bid against ourselves. If it's looking like it'll come down to a crappy contract battle where it's a lose-lose for us ... Well, we've got 2-3 years to prepare for that, and while finding offensive linemen is not foolproof, it's not like finding quarterbacks either.

As far as Munchak is concerned, sure, some amount of talent has to be there, but plain as day, we had a well below-average line before, and once he came along, we have one of the best lines in the league, and it's the same guys. Seems like we've also gotten a lot better at identifying (and just as importantly, developing) decent prospects with what used to be throwaway picks or afterthought FA signings. So there's no doubt in my mind he's made it about 500% more likely that if the Villanueva situation goes sideways, we'll make something work in the end.

[Mojouw]

If you are in charge of a team with SB aspirations, how can you have less than 3 quality offensive tackles? Even if the Steelers believe that Hawkins is an eventual amazing starter at LT - you can't just let AV walk. Because who is your 3rd tackle? Hubbard - yeah that doesn't fill me with confidence.

AV needs to be resigned for that reason alone. The second reason, is that his situation is alot like the AB contract deal. And much like L Bell's as well. All three players have clearly out-performed their existing contracts. You better believe that the entire roster is watching what the team does for their second contract.

I am not saying that the team has to attempt to outbid themselves and back-up an armored car full of money, but they can't try and get AV resigned for bargain basement prices either.

Also, letting AV walk would be the dumbest decision from this team in quite some time.

[polamalubeast]

Munchak is an amazing o-line coach and he is one of the reasons why our o-line is now great, but the reason why our o-line was bad in 2013 with the same players is that Bicknell was historically bad o-line coach.