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Thread: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Interesting that you mention those specific years... when Tomlin was 2-0 versus Harbsugh in the playoffs.
    In regular season, Harbaugh and Tomlin are at the same level (Tomlin made the playoffs 7/10 and Harbaugh 6/9) but Harbaugh has the advantage for the playoffs for the reasons I said.

    2 very good coach, of course Tomlin has a case on Harbaugh, but it is the case for Harbaugh too.

    I don't understand why it's ridiculous to think that Harbaugh is a better coach than Tomlin....2 similar resume.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    In regular season, Harbaugh and Tomlin are at the same level (Tomlin made the playoffs 7/10 and Harbaugh 6/9) but Harbaugh has the advantage for the playoffs for the reasons I said.

    2 very good coach, of course Tomlin has a case on Harbaugh, but it is the case for Harbaugh too.

    I don't understand why it's ridiculous to think that Harbaugh is a better coach than Tomlin....2 similar resume.
    Again, when the teams were both in their primes, Tomlin was 2-0 versus Harbaugh in the playoffs.

    I don't understand how that makes Harbaugh the better coach.



    I guess that it is the same faulty logic that says that Harbaugh's 8-8 record in 2016 was better than Tomlin's 11-5 record.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Again, when the teams were both in their primes, Tomlin was 2-0 versus Harbaugh in the playoffs.

    I don't understand how that makes Harbaugh the better coach.
    Both games were in Pittsburgh...In 2008, the Ravens have given a Good Fight to the steelers, although the Ravens were banged up for this game and that Harbaugh had a rookie QB for this game.

    In 2010, the Ravens choked, so you can blame Harbaugh for it if you want, but he had some plays that Harbaugh had no control as the drops by the receivers.


    I guess that it is the same faulty logic that says that Harbaugh's 8-8 record in 2016 was better than Tomlin's 11-5 record.

    I just said that the Ravens were very close to win the division.

    In fact, if Antonio Brown does not do his immaculate extension, the game is over, our season is over and the Ravens win the Division and Tomlin would have been killed by the media for his playcall if Brown would have been tackled.Almost everyone would have said for the entire offseason that Tomlin is just a cheerleader if Brown would not have made his immaculate extension.This extension was out of his control, but the playcall was very risky.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Both games were in Pittsburgh...In 2008, the Ravens have given a Good Fight to the steelers, although the Ravens were banged up for this game and that Harbaugh had a rookie QB for this game.

    In 2010, the Ravens choked, so you can blame Harbaugh for it if you want, but he had some plays that Harbaugh had no control as the drops by the receivers.





    I just said that the Ravens were very close to win the division.

    In fact, if Antonio Brown does not do his immaculate extension, the game is over, our season is over and the Ravens win the Division and Tomlin would have been killed by the media for his playcall if Brown would have been tackled.Almost everyone would have said for the entire offseason that Tomlin is just a cheerleader if Brown would not have made his immaculate extension.This extension was out of his control, but the playcall was very risky.
    If Harbaugh wanted the game in Baltimore, maybe he should have won more games than the Steelers.

    And, so you are saying that choking is okay for Harbaugh??? Okay. Got it.


    If Joey Porter hangs on to that pick-six in 2001, the Steelers go to the SuperBowl. If one of those INTs in SuperBowl XXX was a TD instead, the Steelers win 24-20. If BB doesn't get sacked twice while in FG range, the Steelers beat Tebow in regulation in 2011. If the Broncos secondary doesn't lose its freakin' mind, the Ravens are one-&-done in 2012. If... if.. if...

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    If Harbaugh wanted the game in Baltimore, maybe he should have won more games than the Steelers.

    And, so you are saying that choking is okay for Harbaugh??? Okay. Got it.


    If Joey Porter hangs on to that pick-six in 2001, the Steelers go to the SuperBowl. If one of those INTs in SuperBowl XXX was a TD instead, the Steelers win 24-20. If BB doesn't get sacked twice while in FG range, the Steelers beat Tebow in regulation in 2011. If the Broncos secondary doesn't lose its freakin' mind, the Ravens are one-&-done in 2012. If... if.. if...

    As I said, you can blame Harbaugh if you want for 2010.Not because the Ravens had a better team but because Baltimore were leading 21-7 at halftime.

    It takes luck to win sometimes but the playcall at the end of the game against the Ravens were very risky, since the steelers had no timeout

    With a defeat, the steelers would have been 3-10 against the Ravens since 2011 and the Ravens would have been in our head during the entire offseason instead of the Patriots.Better to be lucky than good sometimes!

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    As I said, you can blame Harbaugh if you want for 2010.Not because the Ravens had a better team but because Baltimore were leading 21-7 at halftime.

    It takes luck to win sometimes but the playcall at the end of the game against the Ravens were very risky, since the steelers had no timeout

    With a defeat, the steelers would have been 3-10 against the Ravens since 2011 and the Ravens would have been in our head during the entire offseason instead of the Patriots.Better to be lucky than good sometimes!
    Harbaugh's players getting a fluke fumble-recovery/TD is due to his coaching. But, Harbaugh's players dropping passes is not due to his coaching. Got it.

    Likewise, Harbaugh's players dropping passes in 2010 is not due to his coaching. But, when one of Tomlin's players blows coverage in 2011 and that same Ravens player catches it (dropping the Steelers from the #2 seed and having to play Tebow) that is indeed due to Tomlin's coaching.


    The AB touchdown is the perfect example of people who dislike Tomlin are going to find a reason to nitpick. If Tomlin had kicked the FG, these same people would be lambasting him for not having the moxie to go for the win. As it is, they win... and he's still chastised for it. Seriously. It's akin to those who complain that he doesn't win "by enough". Tomlin is in the epitome of a no-win situation.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    The Bengals have won 6 of the last 7 games against the Ravens.

    Does that mean that Marvin Lewis is a better coach than John Harbaugh???

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    The AB touchdown is the perfect example of people who dislike Tomlin are going to find a reason to nitpick. If Tomlin had kicked the FG, these same people would be lambasting him for not having the moxie to go for the win. As it is, they win... and he's still chastised for it. Seriously. It's akin to those who complain that he doesn't win "by enough". Tomlin is in the epitome of a no-win situation.
    I did not want that the steelers kick the field goal at the end of the game against the Ravens but the play was very risky(The pass outside of the endzone), since if Brown had been tackled, our season would have ended.

    Fortunately, Brown made an incredible effort!


    Harbaugh's players getting a fluke fumble-recovery/TD is due to his coaching. But, Harbaugh's players dropping passes is not due to his coaching. Got it.

    The problem I have with the defensive TD is that the o-line of the steelers did not seem to know that the play was not over!

    The coaching staff must teach to the players that the play is never dead, especially when the ball is on the ground!


    Likewise, Harbaugh's players dropping passes in 2010 is not due to his coaching. But, when one of Tomlin's players blows coverage in 2011 (dropping the Steelers from the #2 seed and having to play Tebow) that is indeed due to Tomlin's coaching.
    Even after our second defeat against the Ravens in 2011, our season was far from over, but unfortunately Tebow had his game of his life, because of an atrocious gameplan by the coaching staff(Tomlin and Lebeau).You must never put yourself in a vulnerable position against the deep ball in the NFL.

    This is Tomlin's biggest black spot in his career, the defeat against Tebow.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    The Bengals have won 6 of the last 7 games against the Ravens.

    Does that mean that Marvin Lewis is a better coach than John Harbaugh???

    Only if Lewis would be a good playoff coach.
    Last edited by polamalubeast; 05-27-2017 at 03:45 PM.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Tomlin's biggest blemishes are Tebow and his constant disasters against Belichick and Brady.

    Other than that, there isn't much to complain about him.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Tomlin has made more plays than Harbaugh.



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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    who cares what Gil Brandt says?

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL




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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by GBMelBlount View Post
    Tomlin has made more plays than Harbaugh.



    It's hilarious to me that this play has somehow evolved into Tomlin tripping Jones, as all of the haters describe it. You can see here that Jones didn't even move and wasn't affected by Tomlin at all.
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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Both games were in Pittsburgh...In 2008, the Ravens have given a Good Fight to the steelers, although the Ravens were banged up for this game and that Harbaugh had a rookie QB for this game.

    In 2010, the Ravens choked, so you can blame Harbaugh for it if you want, but he had some plays that Harbaugh had no control as the drops by the receivers.





    I just said that the Ravens were very close to win the division.

    In fact, if Antonio Brown does not do his immaculate extension, the game is over, our season is over and the Ravens win the Division and Tomlin would have been killed by the media for his playcall if Brown would have been tackled.Almost everyone would have said for the entire offseason that Tomlin is just a cheerleader if Brown would not have made his immaculate extension.This extension was out of his control, but the playcall was very risky.
    You are welcome to your opinion that Harbaugh is a better coach. I happen to disagree, but it is frustrating that your only points of support seem to be situations where Harbaugh only gets credit and never blame and Tomlin only gets blame and never credit.

    Remember this is a big part of how those well coached Ravens went to the SB -- https://youtu.be/HmRYZOuXHrA

    A fluky blown coverage hail mary.

    So Tomlin is a bad coach because he allows a play call that could have resulted in time expiring but didn't - however no credit for getting the ball in the hands of his best playmaker. Harbaugh is a great coach who is only ever held back by the crappy roster and his rookie QB. He went to the SB on the back of a catastrophically blown assignment. Last drive to save the season and this fertile coaching mind only comes up with a one WR deep route down the sideline. Watch that play - there were no other routes designed to draw the safety up - just check-downs. I mean I guess if Denver's safeties are idiots and get caught staring at TEs running shallow crossing routes with less than 45 seconds to go...oh wait.

    Look at this play by comparison - http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-m...artavis-Bryant

    AB and Bryant outside. Bell in the backfield. Bengals respond by walking one of their safeties into the box. They have 10 guys within 7 yards of the line of scrimmage. Now their single high safety has an impossible choice to make - roll help to AB's side or try and slide toward the rookie speedster. From this camera view of the play - it appears he never really made a decision and was caught in no mans land in the middle of the field. But that decision, or lack of one, was forced on the entire Bengals defense by the play design and formation. Drop too many guys into coverage and Bell is going to gouge you. Come down into the box to help on the run and either one of our WRs are going to torch single coverage.

    One shot to win a playoff game - which play do you want in your team's call-sheet?

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Yes, the Ravens had been lucky in Denver in 2012, but the Ravens still needed to win against 2 teams better than them (Patriots and 49ers) to win the super bowl.

    Harbaugh was lucky in 2012 against Denver, but he was unlucky against the Pats in 2011 because of Lee Evans and his kicker.


    So Tomlin is a bad coach because he allows a play call that could have resulted in time expiring but didn't - however no credit for getting the ball in the hands of his best playmaker.
    Firstly, I never said that Tomlin was a bad coach.

    It was the right decision to throw to Brown, but outside of the redzone was very risky, fortunately Brown made an incredible effort to score the TD.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    You are welcome to your opinion that Harbaugh is a better coach. I happen to disagree, but it is frustrating that your only points of support seem to be situations where Harbaugh only gets credit and never blame and Tomlin only gets blame and never credit.

    Remember this is a big part of how those well coached Ravens went to the SB -- https://youtu.be/HmRYZOuXHrA

    A fluky blown coverage hail mary.

    So Tomlin is a bad coach because he allows a play call that could have resulted in time expiring but didn't - however no credit for getting the ball in the hands of his best playmaker. Harbaugh is a great coach who is only ever held back by the crappy roster and his rookie QB. He went to the SB on the back of a catastrophically blown assignment. Last drive to save the season and this fertile coaching mind only comes up with a one WR deep route down the sideline. Watch that play - there were no other routes designed to draw the safety up - just check-downs. I mean I guess if Denver's safeties are idiots and get caught staring at TEs running shallow crossing routes with less than 45 seconds to go...oh wait.
    That 2012 Ravens team really was not that special, they relied on so many lucky breaks going their way that year

    They probably miss the playoffs that year had Ben not gotten injured the week before the two team's first meeting that year, Steelers win and beat out the Ravens for the final spot head-to-head.

    After the Broncos safety trips over his own two feet and helps give Baltimore the win, the Ravens luck out the next week by not having to play against Gronk and Aqib Talib. Those two play, the Ravens probably lose.

    Then the Super Bowl, 4th and goal in the closing minutes of the Super Bowl, game on the line, and the Ravens get away with an obvious holding penalty

    Again so many lucky breaks needed to go their way
    Last edited by st33lersguy; 05-29-2017 at 12:10 AM.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Edman View Post
    Tomlin's biggest blemishes are Tebow and his constant disasters against Belichick and Brady.

    Other than that, there isn't much to complain about him.
    one other item on my personal complaint list is how often Tomlin has had some poor losses to absolutely bottom dweller teams. I'd have no complaints if we purged this one ongoing habit we seem to have.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Patriots are the most talented? I would place them in the middle or lower in terms of talent.
    Hater = Realist

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    Patriots are the most talented? I would place them in the middle or lower in terms of talent.
    I'd have to look but didn't they score the most points last year and allow the least?

    I would think the stellar talent level is implicit.
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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    "The Steelers are the second most talented team. That's what it is."

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Steeldude View Post
    Patriots are the most talented? I would place them in the middle or lower in terms of talent.
    Funniest post I've read on here in a long time. Maybe ever.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    a very wise man once said ... Talent will only get you so far

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    Firstly, I never said that Tomlin was a bad coach.

    It was the right decision to throw to Brown, but outside of the redzone was very risky, fortunately Brown made an incredible effort to score the TD.
    Fair enough, you are right you never said Tomlin was a bad coach and I shouldn't have phrased it that way.

    But isn't one of the main game-day responsibilities of the HC to assess risk and determine when and how much to take? Imagine if Tomlin had gone all Schottenheimer on that drive? Or look at how Ron Rivera has had a resurgence as a HC now that he has become "Riverboat Ron" and gambles far more.

    I think that this is why I rarely agree with the Tomlin detractors, most of what gets offered up as evidence of Tomlin's faults as a HC, I actually see as strengths.

    Going for 2 is almost always the better percentage. Can it backfire? Sure, but so can putting in the left handed reliever to face the left handed slugger after you intentionally walked someone. But that is accepted practice. The math says that going for 2 gives your team a noticeable better chance of winning. I feel that in 5 years it will be accepted practice and no one will be criticizing coaches for it.

    Deep passes on 3rd and short. Again, I love this. You have an offense that hits on a bigger % of its deep throws than almost any other team in the league - I'm going to use that as often as I can. Throwing long on typically short passing downs goes against the defense's instincts - gotta get any edge you can.

    Clock management - meh. I feel he is no better or worse than most. It just jumps out to us because we obsess about all things Steelers.

    Anyway, we don't need to turn this into an evaluate Tomlin thread anymore than it already is. My only point is that I think that you can "feel" a certain way about different coaches tendencies and that completely influences each of our rankings of them.

    For instance, I feel that both the Harbaughs are basically grittier versions of Jon Gruden. All 3 are extremely knowledgeable about football. All three are only successful when handed the keys to a deep roster and told to get it over the championship hump. Then about 3-5 years in their nonsense gets old and they got nothing. They lose the locker room and move on. Now is any of that true? I don't really know - it is just how I perceive those three as coaches.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    I have no problem with the deep pass in 3rd down and short...The steelers had a great success with that in the 2015 season in our peak of our offense.

    To go for 2, once in the game, I can live with that, but twice is too much if the first time it does not work...It cost the game against the Cowboys and I think Tomlin has not been for 2 points again in the first half for the rest of the season.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by polamalubeast View Post
    I have no problem with the deep pass in 3rd down and short...The steelers had a great success with that in the 2015 season in our peak of our offense.

    To go for 2, once in the game, I can live with that, but twice is too much if the first time it does not work...It cost the game against the Cowboys and I think Tomlin has not been for 2 points again in the first half for the rest of the season.
    Not sure if it cost the game - I kinda feel like the defenses tackling issues that whole game played a role. Maybe it did.

    But - going for 2 is almost always the right call. It just doesn't seem that way because its going against years of patterning -- https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...hey-should-be/

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    I am always against throwing deep on 3rd and 1.

    It's 1 yard for crying out loud. Throw a check down, or hand it off to your all pro RB and continue driving down the field. It's that's simple.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAndGold View Post
    I am always against throwing deep on 3rd and 1.

    It's 1 yard for crying out loud. Throw a check down, or hand it off to your all pro RB and continue driving down the field. It's that's simple.
    Yes, but if you want a big play, it's the best down to throw deep

    Also, in the 3rd down and one, the checkdowns are less open and it's harder to run the ball, so it's important that the opponents defenses are afraid of the deep pass in his situations.

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    Re: Gil Brandt ranks the Steelers as the second most talented team in the NFL

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    The Bengals have won 6 of the last 7 games against the Ravens.

    Does that mean that Marvin Lewis is a better coach than John Harbaugh???
    Good point.

    The Steelers, Bengals & Ravens matchups the last few years have been like rock, paper, scissors.
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