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Thread: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

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    TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    So, as I don't watch college FB, I tend not to read up on college players until after the draft because there's just too many to learn about in order to speak smartly about any of them. Of course, I'll choose a position now and then and give it a look, but . . .

    Now that we've picked Watt, I've given his tape a look, and like the title says, I'm not too impressed. I'll go through his 2016 highlights and share what I'm seeing. (Note, after the first couple of vids, I slowed it down to .75 percent speed, so it might look strange when you click the link).

    1. This sack came against a player with bad mechanics. And worse, it looked like the player was only intending to chip him (not that it was the play, but that's how bad the OT was on the play). Yet, Watt is slowed down by the guy and the has to hustle to get to the QB. Moreover, it took over three seconds to get the QB. That isn't going to to happen in the NFL, even playing against the bad teams. NFL QBs get the ball out much faster.

    2. In this sack, he has a decent dip inside before going outside, but it is nowhere near fast enough against TEs and RBs (this was against a RB). Moreover, he doesn't power through the RB, but runs around him because the RB came up too far and ended up out of position to block. Part of that is Watt's dip, but part of it is more bad blocking mechanics.*

    3. Here, we have a Pick Six. Good reaction by Watt, and he shows good hands. However, what concerns me more is the way the RB actually moves him before Watt sheds him and runs towards the QB.

    4. Now, we have a tackle for a loss. It looks good, until you watch the OT who completely whiffs on the block. Again, it isn't because of a move or explosive speed. It's due to back mechanics.

    5. Watt knocks down this pass. But what is really concerning is the first highlight I see where he's going against a OT who has decent mechanics, Watt gets owned. He's completely out of the play except for a bad choice by the QB.

    6. Similar to five, good fundamentals stymies Watt in this play. The upback puts him completely on his heels. It's only because of a bad decision by the RB that Watt can dive sideways and make a tackle.

    7. Here, we're back to OTs with questionable mechanics. I'll give Watt more credit on this one as it looks as though he got the OT off balance a bit. One thing I do see that I like very much is that he runs through the hold.

    8. This play is just horrid. Watt gets juked, hard, but manages to get his hands on the ball-carriers arm (or ball) and knock it loose. If he doesn't make that strip, he's left watching his teammates covering for him.

    9. Watt is second man in on this play. However, finally, I can say something good about him. The OT (I beleive, since it's on the other side of the field from the camera) comes up and looks to be in good position. He has a slow punch, and goes high instead of to the chest, but nevertheless, Watt meets him and overpowers him—the first time I've seen him do it on this highlight reel. Then, he steps inside and back out to get to the QB and finish up a sack. Nice play.

    10. This sack comes off a six-man blitz. Watt comes up the middle and hits the RB, pushing him to the side. Not bad at all, but what I'm looking for here is a man vs. boy scenario, and I don't see it. Why am I looking for that? Because NFL RBs will be much better. I think he gets stymied if this is an NFL back here.

    11. Here, he's stunting to the OT so the outside guy can come inside. Nice positioning hitting the OT on the inside shoulder to move him before stepping through. But this power move just isn't powerful enough for the next level. What I do have to commend him on again, is his motor.

    12. To be fair, he's not expected to get to the QB this time, but he does. It's another crossing stunt and at first, he's double teamed. He doesn't beat the double team, but he does keep awareness of the play and when the QB steps up, he moves to the inside, around another lineman, and gets the sack.

    13. Here, we're back to getting stymied by an OT that has decent technique. He gets the sack purely because of a bad decision on the QB in where he steps up. Watt is taken completely out of the play otherwise.

    14. This sack is a mix of bad technique by the OT and good play by Watt. The OT comes up way too far (bad technique). Watt takes advantage of it and explodes into his chest, driving him backwards right to the QB. The bad technique makes this play not as impressive as it first looked, but it's still nice to see Watt able take advantage of the mistake.

    On the last two plays of this video, Watt has a nice knockdown from the middle of the scrum, and then he comes in off the edge to tack the RB.

    _________________

    So, what am I seeing? Most of Watts sacks came against bad technique. They were sacks where he took advantage of what players gave him, rather than sacks where he created the opportunity himself. That really scares me if he's our first round draft pick. Moreover, in the sack where he moves past the RB, while he created the opportunity, he did it against a player that is not NFL caliber for blocking, yet he didn't look completely dominant against the guy (the man v. boy thing).

    He does have a good motor, and he also has good football sense, it seems. But he's going to need a year or two to put muscle on that frame before he'll be effective in a way that we want him to be. I honestly think he's a 3-5 year project, and should have gone perhaps 3-4 round—maybe second if he showed something at the combine or pro-day that shows he's already taking steps mentioned here. But from where I sit now, this was as much of a reach as the Mahome pick earlier tonight, maybe even more.

    In short, unless he busts his rear-end in the weight room and also with speed coaches, we've just drafted Jarvis Jones 2.0.

    Now . . . the one thing that stands out about him that makes the prior statement not as bad, is his motor. The kid never quits. If he carries that into the weight room and puts the work in both there and with coaches for developing quick-twitch muscle so he can get faster, I think he has the ability to be a decent starter. I honestly don't, however, think he has the ability to be a first-round worthy draft choice.


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    I can see a lot of what you're saying. But his combine #s were almost better than anyone else in the class and compare favorably with guys like Mack and Von Miller. I suspect that his technique is simply underdeveloped as he has no time in the position. Raw with upside. Basically the new Steelers model in the draft.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    I can see a lot of what you're saying. But his combine #s were almost better than anyone else in the class and compare favorably with guys like Mack and Von Miller. I suspect that his technique is simply underdeveloped as he has no time in the position. Raw with upside. Basically the new Steelers model in the draft.
    Which is what Colbert is saying here.

    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/04...ensive-player/

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    I'll watch the videos tomorrow.

    But, I will say this: Big 10 OTs are legit. Poor technique or not, they are usually the cream of the O-line crop.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/tj-watt

    can dude play in he NFL? No idea, but he is a far better athlete than Jarvis.

    https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/clay-matthews

    Clay Matthews is actually a worse athlete.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    I wasn't too big on his film either. With his size at OLB, I don't see how he is going to beat NFL OTs on a consistent basis. I like his ability to cover and his athleticism, but he's a project in my eyes. The only other player I would have taken at 30 was Baker, so I'm not too upset. Taco was taken 2 picks too soon.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Dong sacks!

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    If you guys are interested in just sack highlights Dave Bryan over at the Depot compiled every TJ Watt sack he could find. He did it for other LB's and also compiled INT's and what not for some DB's.

    http://www.steelersdepot.com/2017/04...on-highlights/



    And yeah, whatever concerns there are with Watt here are some key things to keep in mind:

    1. He was a 1 year starter at OLB and came out as one of the top rated OLB's in the country.

    2. He is a Watt. His work ethic is probably through the roof and he most likely has impeccable character. Helluva combo for a guy you want to reach his ceiling and his ceiling should be high given the traits we can identify.

    3. He is a Watt. The Watts seem to be very competitive and he has big brother JJ to show up.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    I can see some of the reasonings against TJ Watt, and some of the more common ones you listed above. But OK, the jarvis jones crap is getting really out of hand. If i had a dollar for every OLB prospect a steelers fan compared to jarvis jones id be a millionaire. The closest thing these 2 have in common is size, and TJ is still in the upper hand there:

    TJ Watt
    Height: 6'4''
    Weight: 252lb
    Arm Length: 33 1/8''
    Hands: 11''

    40 Yard Dash: 4.69
    Bench press: 21 reps
    Vertical Jump: 37''
    Broad Jump: 10'8''
    3 Cone Drill: 6.79
    20 Yard Shuttle: 4.13
    60 Yard Shuttle: 11.2

    TJ placed in the top 3 in 5 out of 7 combine tests. the 2 tests where he didnt (40 yard dash and bench press) he still put up solid numbers at worst

    Jarvis Jones
    Height: 6'2''
    Weight: 245lb
    Arm Length: 33''
    Hands: 9 1/8''

    40 Yard Dash: 4.92
    Bench press: 20 reps
    Vertical Jump: 30''
    Broad Jump: 9'3'' (which would have tied for last at his position if he were at the combine)
    3 Cone Drill: N/A
    20 Yard Shuttle: N/A
    60 Yard Shuttle: N/A

    And as said above, TJ has barely even played this position and already has good fundamentals and decent polish for such a neophyte. Their scouting reports look nothing alike. If TJ finds a way to be a bust itll be for completely different reasons than Jarvis Jones
    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    We are not Buffalo, We are not Miami. We are the Steelers, we dont blow out teams, we cock tease for ratings and keep games close.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    I wish that I could post pictures (I'm such an idiot sometimes).

    The card turned in for Watt says "LB"... not OLB.

    Could they play him at ILB???... and, get Rivers at 62 (to play OLB).

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    He is not Jarvis Jones 2.0, not even close. Watt comes with two important strengths, athleticism and a high motor. Any deficiencies he has could easily be improved with coaching and added experience. Oh and I'm sure having a guy like James Harrison to learn from will help as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I wish that I could post pictures (I'm such an idiot sometimes).

    The card turned in for Watt says "LB"... not OLB.

    Could they play him at ILB???... and, get Rivers at 62 (to play OLB).
    He could play ILB which is an added bonus, though I seem to remember Bud's draft card two years ago read LB

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I wish that I could post pictures (I'm such an idiot sometimes).

    The card turned in for Watt says "LB"... not OLB.

    Could they play him at ILB???... and, get Rivers at 62 (to play OLB).
    Ill go bonkers if that happens. We should have just drafted Reuben Foster if we wanted an ILB. The plot thickens
    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    We are not Buffalo, We are not Miami. We are the Steelers, we dont blow out teams, we cock tease for ratings and keep games close.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86 View Post
    Ill go bonkers if that happens. We should have just drafted Reuben Foster if we wanted an ILB. The plot thickens
    Or... I'm simply wearing my tinfoil hat.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I wish that I could post pictures (I'm such an idiot sometimes).

    The card turned in for Watt says "LB"... not OLB.

    Could they play him at ILB???... and, get Rivers at 62 (to play OLB).
    In the pick presser with Tomlin and Colbert they were specifically asked about where he would play and Tomlin said it would be outside. I would assume if they are going to start off trying him there before inside they wouldn't take Rivers with the assumption he would be the guy. I could foresee a OLB double dip but not at 1 and 2 because both would essentially be expected to start and there is only 1 spot.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by Steelheart View Post
    In the pick presser with Tomlin and Colbert they were specifically asked about where he would play and Tomlin said it would be outside.
    Well, that solves that mystery.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Welcome to Steeler Nation TJ!!

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86 View Post
    I can see some of the reasonings against TJ Watt, and some of the more common ones you listed above. But OK, the jarvis jones crap is getting really out of hand. If i had a dollar for every OLB prospect a steelers fan compared to jarvis jones id be a millionaire. The closest thing these 2 have in common is size, and TJ is still in the upper hand there . . .

    And as said above, TJ has barely even played this position and already has good fundamentals and decent polish for such a neophyte. Their scouting reports look nothing alike. If TJ finds a way to be a bust itll be for completely different reasons than Jarvis Jones
    Quote Originally Posted by st33lersguy View Post
    He is not Jarvis Jones 2.0, not even close. Watt comes with two important strengths, athleticism and a high motor. Any deficiencies he has could easily be improved with coaching and added experience. Oh and I'm sure having a guy like James Harrison to learn from will help as well.
    He could play ILB which is an added bonus, though I seem to remember Bud's draft card two years ago read LB
    I should have been more specific in what I meant about being Jarvis Jones. I apologize.

    What I meant was, Jones had a motor, but he was always stymied and couldn't get to the QB. He lacked the strength to push through a lineman, and lacked the moves to get around a lineman. Right now, that's what I'm also seeing in Watt when projecting him against NFL players.

    Also, remember I'm talking about right now. Do I think he's hit his ceiling? No. And, if Mojouw is correct concerning combine numbers, then he's already beginning to put in the work needed. I still think it was a reach from what I saw on tape (at least trade down a few into the second), but what I've said to others also applies to me. There's a reason I'm sitting behind a computer screen and they're working for the Steelers organization. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Now, I need to shut off the computer before the wife yells at me to come to bed.




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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I'll watch the videos tomorrow.

    But, I will say this: Big 10 OTs are legit. Poor technique or not, they are usually the cream of the O-line crop.
    I like this tape. Watt is an ascending player who only started 14 games. The film shows very strong hands ( 11", maybe the biggest in the draft ) the ability to pin ball, high effort, and good awareness as a pass rusher.

    Watt is a plus run defender, and worked out very well ( Running, jumping, agility tests ).

    The production is very good in the big ten.

    2016 season, 63 tackles, 11.5 sacks, 15.5 tackles for losses, 1 interception, 4 passes defended, 2 forced fumbles, 1 fumble recovery and a touchdown. Now that is excellent all around production!

    http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/...tj-watt-1.html

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    I think the people that don't buy into Watt as a first round pick just don't understand how difficult it is to change positions....particularly from offense to defense or vice versa. That Watt was able to transition from tight end and be amongst the best OLB in the country in a very short period of time is extraordinary.

    We have only to look at our own roster and see Villanueva to see how much growth is possible if the talent and athleticism is there.

    This kid is not Jarvis Jones.....not even close. Just so you know, I was one of the people back at Steelers Fever that warned everyone about Jones. I watched tons of tape on both of these guys. Jones made most of his plays by simply shooting gaps and sometimes ignoring his responsibilities on plays. He was smaller, slower, had less quickness, fewer moves, and less athletic than Watt in every way while also having much more experience at the position by a mile.

    Those of you that are seeing a player that won't make a difference or comparing him to Jones need to take a breath. Everything is going to be fine. Give this kid just a little time to work, and you will see some good things happening very quickly.

    I see tons of upside. He has so much more to learn at the position and his technique and use of hands is only going to get better....plus he's going to get stronger.

    This kid will be at worst a very good player in the NFL IMO.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by pczach View Post
    I think the people that don't buy into Watt as a first round pick just don't understand how difficult it is to change positions....particularly from offense to defense or vice versa. That Watt was able to transition from tight end and be amongst the best OLB in the country in a very short period of time is extraordinary.

    We have only to look at our own roster and see Villanueva to see how much growth is possible if the talent and athleticism is there.

    This kid is not Jarvis Jones.....not even close. Just so you know, I was one of the people back at Steelers Fever that warned everyone about Jones. I watched tons of tape on both of these guys. Jones made most of his plays by simply shooting gaps and sometimes ignoring his responsibilities on plays. He was smaller, slower, had less quickness, fewer moves, and less athletic than Watt in every way while also having much more experience at the position by a mile.

    Those of you that are seeing a player that won't make a difference or comparing him to Jones need to take a breath. Everything is going to be fine. Give this kid just a little time to work, and you will see some good things happening very quickly.

    I see tons of upside. He has so much more to learn at the position and his technique and use of hands is only going to get better....plus he's going to get stronger.

    This kid will be at worst a very good player in the NFL IMO.
    Well said, let's let the kid get fitted with his helmet. He's going to bring the fire back to the defense.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince'76 View Post
    Dong sacks!



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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I wish that I could post pictures (I'm such an idiot sometimes).

    The card turned in for Watt says "LB"... not OLB.

    Could they play him at ILB???... and, get Rivers at 62 (to play OLB).
    This was the first thing I thought when we took him. I don't think Rivers is off our board yet.

    AML

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Well, that solves that mystery.
    Didn't they also say Watt didn't have 1st round talent?

    AML

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Most of the players selected in the first round aren't first round talent.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwinsgames View Post
    you are a Kenny Pickett enabler

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Not saying yes or no to Watt on the inside. Just saying that we are only through the 1st round, and the draft games go on.

    AML

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by Texasteel View Post
    This was the first thing I thought when we took him. I don't think Rivers is off our board yet.
    The Steelers will run a 2-5.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Texasteel View Post
    Didn't they also say Watt didn't have 1st round talent?
    True.
    I mentioned it in DesertSteel's Watt thread, that I had read that the Steelers would not be interested in Watt until 62... and they took him at 30. Likewise, they stated that he's an OLB... but, they could switch him to ILB.

    Once a BSer, always a BSer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Texasteel View Post
    Not saying yes or no to Watt on the inside. Just saying that we are only through the 1st round, and the draft games go on.
    Bingo!!!

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    I if he grows as much his first hear with us as he did he only year at this position, he will be a good to great starter after a year. Honestly he just needs to build muscle and learn from now until the second half of the season where he can hopefully start subbing in for JH. That is what I was looking for in a player. Hell, if he is half the player his brother was, he will be a top 10 OLB.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Jarvis Jones 2.0. Lol.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    I wish that I could post pictures (I'm such an idiot sometimes).

    The card turned in for Watt says "LB"... not OLB.

    Could they play him at ILB???... and, get Rivers at 62 (to play OLB).
    I think Watt could do it. UW moved him around a bit once Cichy went down for the year. Look, when I watch Watt, I see Clay Matthews and not just because they are kinda goofy moving white guys. Both have the trend that their best skill is rushing the passer, but they can do it from inside or out. Both can defend the pass a bit and both can do other LB things besides just line up and rush the passer.

    I think the best thing about Watt, as a prospect, is that his ceiling might not be in the stratosphere like Garret or even Tak --- but his floor is really high. Like the worst you are getting is a 6 sack guy that anchors against the run, is position flexible, and can swat passes. I know that isn't a 1st round pick, but Watt in my opinion was the least risky of the OLB prospects.

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    Re: TJ Watt: Not too Impressed with His Tape


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