Steelers target Alejandro Villanueva for long-term deal

[tube517]

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201702160166

The Steelers have been busy signing their own exclusive rights free agents to one-year contracts with one notable exception: Alejandro Villanueva.

They would prefer instead to sign Villanueva to a long-term deal as their starting left tackle rather than one year as they have done with the rest.

An exclusive rights free agent is a player whose contract has expired but has only two years of service in the NFL; as long as the club extends him a one-year offer at minimum wage, the player cannot sign with any other team.

[Shoes]

Good news! I think that will get done in a hurry, by both sides.

[teegre]

[st33lersguy]

Get it done

[86WARD]

Get it done and get it cheap.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Get it done and get it cheap.

starting left offensive tackles usually don't come cheap, but i know what you mean...

[BlackAndGold]

One of my favorite players. Hope something gets done.

[43Hitman]

Great news! So when this happens will that have all of our starting o-lineman locked up long term?

[tube517]

Great news! So when this happens will that have all of our starting o-lineman locked up long term?

Pretty much. Foster has a shorter deal than the others.

[Mojouw]

Pretty much. Foster has a shorter deal than the others.

On top of that, for the first time in a LONG time, there are clear successors to the starting 5 on the roster. Finney takes over for Foster. Hawkins stands ready at tackle.

Maybe not every position, but it is a heck of a lot better than it has been in a very long time!

[pczach]

This is something that needs to happen very soon.

Let's hope it's a reasonable deal for a player that you just have to respect and root for. A lengthy contract for an improving player by the team that believed in him and gave him a chance.

It's like a made-for-tv movie.

[teegre]

His play in the second half of the season was rated (if I recall correctly) as being the BEST left tackle in the entire NFL.

IMO, they should pay him like (at least) a top-five LT.

[Shoes]

On top of that, for the first time in a LONG time, there are clear successors to the starting 5 on the roster. Finney takes over for Foster. Hawkins stands ready at tackle.

Maybe not every position, but it is a heck of a lot better than it has been in a very long time!

Thank God for Munch. Give him a lifetime contract!

[Psycho Ward 86]

Not completely sure about this from a financial standpoint. We can keep him for so cheap the next 2 seasons. I guess it would be a dick move to keep him on those 1 year deals 2 seasons in a row, but I think I would lean towards just keeping him on the ERFA for this season. He could ask for a ton of money, and i wouldnt blame him one bit

[steelreserve]

His play in the second half of the season was rated (if I recall correctly) as being the BEST left tackle in the entire NFL.

IMO, they should pay him like (at least) a top-five LT.

We should pay him $12 million or $13 million a year? When we could keep him for $540,000 this year and an RFA deal in 2018? That's just throwing away $20 million.

I'm all for paying this guy a bit more than the minimum we could get away with under the rules, but that's just insane.

I wouldn't be opposed to signing him to a long-term deal - but if so, it had better account for the fact that we are being SUPER generous by giving him a "real" NFL salary in place of not one but two seasons where we could've cheaply prevented him from ever reaching the open market.

Even in that case - say we got him for an average of $7M-$8M per season for five years - I don't think it's quite the jumping-for-joy contract coup that some would imagine. The hard-line approach would be 2 years for approximately $5 million total, at which point he's on the wrong side of 30. Then $10M-$12M for him or the best free agent on the market for the next couple years takes us about through the end of Ben's career.

Just to be perfectly clear: I definitely DO want to keep the guy, it would be a mistake not to. But be sensible about it. No "that's the market" this time - he's an ERFA; there IS no market.

[Lady Steel]

Just do it!

[teegre]

We should pay him $12 million or $13 million a year? When we could keep him for $540,000 this year and an RFA deal in 2018? That's just throwing away $20 million.

...

Just to be perfectly clear: I definitely DO want to keep the guy, it would be a mistake not to. But be sensible about it. No "that's the market" this time - he's an ERFA; there IS no market.

Good points.

Pragmatically speaking, you are 100% correct.

The Steelers could pay him like an exclusive rights player, but that's just not how they do things. They didn't have to extend AB in 2013, but they did (because he had out-played his sixth-round rookie contract). Going back even farther, they didn't have to extend Tommy Maddox, but they did (because they had promised him a new contract). And currently, they don't have to extend Villanueva, but they will (because he has vastly out-played his free-agent contract).

And, I'd be fine with that for many reasons... one being that he spent his prime "NFL years" in Afghanistan.

[Shoes]

Good points.

Pragmatically speaking, you are 100% correct.

The Steelers could pay him like an exclusive rights player, but that's just not how they do things. They didn't have to extend AB in 2013, but they did (because he had out-played his sixth-round rookie contract). Going back even farther, they didn't have to extend Tommy Maddox, but they did (because they had promised him a new contract). And currently, they don't have to extend Villanueva, but they will (because he has vastly out-played his free-agent contract).

And, I'd be fine with that for many reasons... one being that he spent his prime "NFL years" in Afghanistan.

Agreed, Dan Rooney is a very loyal man, I think the Steelers and Big AL both come out of this happy.

[steelreserve]

Good points.

Pragmatically speaking, you are 100% correct.

The Steelers could pay him like an exclusive rights player, but that's just not how they do things. They didn't have to extend AB in 2013, but they did (because he had out-played his sixth-round rookie contract). Going back even farther, they didn't have to extend Tommy Maddox, but they did (because they had promised him a new contract). And currently, they don't have to extend Villanueva, but they will (because he has vastly out-played his free-agent contract).

And, I'd be fine with that for many reasons... one being that he spent his prime "NFL years" in Afghanistan.

No, there's no way they should do the total "hardball" approach, that would just be shitty. They would also be fools to just give up all that leverage completely. This is a rare case where it's everyone's best interest to strike a deal that pays the guy fairly, but not insanely.

As far as goodwill goes, letting him out of exclusive-rigbts hell two years early is something I'd be glad to see because of the kind of guy he is. All things being equal, if much rather give the money to him than be dicks and pay another guy in 2-3 years after RFA + Franchise tag. It's gotta make some sense from a cap standpoint though. I think we have a chance to do that, which may be why we're starting now rather than next year.

[zulater]

His play in the second half of the season was rated (if I recall correctly) as being the BEST left tackle in the entire NFL.

IMO, they should pay him like (at least) a top-five LT.

I don't know about that. (not doubting you saw this, just calling into question the validity of that evaluation) But I will say this, I think he has improved tremendously and to say he's in the top 10 or 12 left tackles in the game is no stretch. And as his play is clearly ascending to I would classify as a top 10 tackle and pay him accordingly.

[AtlantaDan]

I don't know about that. (not doubting you saw this, just calling into question the validity of that evaluation) But I will say this, I think he has improved tremendously and to say he's in the top 10 or 12 left tackles in the game is no stretch. And as his play is clearly ascending to I would classify as a top 10 tackle and pay him accordingly.

The analysis teegre saw presumably came from PFF before the New England game

Villanueva has surrendered six sacks this year—five of them came in the first six games of the season. 26 of the 46 total QB pressures (56.5 percent) he has allowed (including the playoffs) also came in those first six games, and five of his eight penalties on the year came in that span. In his past four outings, however, he had two perfect games in pass protection, including Sunday night’s matchup against Kansas City, where he didn’t allow any pressure across 32 pass-blocking snaps.

Villanueva has also dramatically improved his run blocking, and hasn’t had a bad game in that regard since the first half of the season.

Last year, Villanueva was PFF’s 48th-ranked offensive tackle, earning a grade of 47.5. This season, however, he has earned an 82.4 mark, good enough for 23rd, and that figure is still being weighed down by a relatively poor first half of the season. From Week 11 onwards, Villanueva was the sixth-best tackle in the game over the regular season, and including the playoffs, jumps to No. 1 overall.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro...-playoff-push/

FWIW Villanueva also received the highest grade of any Steelers offensive player in the New England debacle

LT Alejandro Villanueva, 80.8

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-pit-ne-grades/

I do not think Villanueva is a top 5 LT yet, but if he plays like he did in the latter half of 2016 his price is only going up.

If the Steelers do not play hardball I bet there is a good chance he gets signed to a long term deal this offseason.

Villanueva knows he got his break when Beachum tore up his knee after turning down the Steelers long term offer before the 2015 season and also knows how that worked out for Beachum.

[zulater]

The analysis teegre saw presumably came from PFF before the New England game

Villanueva has surrendered six sacks this year—five of them came in the first six games of the season. 26 of the 46 total QB pressures (56.5 percent) he has allowed (including the playoffs) also came in those first six games, and five of his eight penalties on the year came in that span. In his past four outings, however, he had two perfect games in pass protection, including Sunday night’s matchup against Kansas City, where he didn’t allow any pressure across 32 pass-blocking snaps.

Villanueva has also dramatically improved his run blocking, and hasn’t had a bad game in that regard since the first half of the season.

Last year, Villanueva was PFF’s 48th-ranked offensive tackle, earning a grade of 47.5. This season, however, he has earned an 82.4 mark, good enough for 23rd, and that figure is still being weighed down by a relatively poor first half of the season. From Week 11 onwards, Villanueva was the sixth-best tackle in the game over the regular season, and including the playoffs, jumps to No. 1 overall.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro...-playoff-push/

FWIW Villanueva also received the highest grade of any Steelers offensive player in the New England debacle

LT Alejandro Villanueva, 80.8

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-pit-ne-grades/

I do not think Villanueva is a top 5 LT yet, but if he plays like he did in the latter half of 2016 his price is only going up.

If the Steelers do not play hardball I bet there is a good chance he gets signed to a long term deal this offseason.

Villanueva knows he got his break when Beachum tore up his knee after turning down the Steelers long term offer before the 2015 season and also knows how that worked out for Beachum.

Beachum not signing that offer was about the best thing that could have happened to the Steelers. Beachum struggled this year in Jacksonville. I think he's one of those guys who the more the league sees of them the worse they get. Good guy, tries real hard, but he's undersized and not particular strong for an offensive lineman either. Anyway once the league saw more film they got the book on him and he'll always struggle against top tier guys.

AV is still a bit raw, but he has the size and strength to compete with anyone. Plus he is probably one of the fastest LT's in the game. How many other teams pulled their left tackle on some running plays?

[teegre]

This thread got lost by me...

Good points @steelreserve @zulater @ Atlanta Dan

Considering everything, the Steelers would indeed be doing AV a "favor" by paying him more than his $540,000 minimum. At the same time, AV is doing them a favor by playing for less than "Top 5" money. AV could ask for more money in a few years, but he also risks injury; so, getting a new deal now behooves him.

So... if we meet in the middle, I'd pay him like the 7th best LT in the NFL.

Yes?

[Psycho Ward 86]

the more i think about it, the more this might turn out to be a financially savvy move for the steelers too. Villanueva is in his late 20's already so locking him up now could get us his good years for cheap. By the time the deal runs out, he might already be on the downside of his career and we wont have to pay him as much should we want him any longer

[steelreserve]

This thread got lost by me...

Good points @steelreserve @zulater @ Atlanta Dan

Considering everything, the Steelers would indeed be doing AV a "favor" by paying him more than his $540,000 minimum. At the same time, AV is doing them a favor by playing for less than "Top 5" money. AV could ask for more money in a few years, but he also risks injury; so, getting a new deal now behooves him.

So... if we meet in the middle, I'd pay him like the 7th best LT in the NFL.

Yes?

There's no appreciable difference between the third-best and 7th-best, it's like $12M versus $11.5M.

Figure it this way: If we paid him top-10 money, that's still over $10M a year. Say we give him a 5-year contract, that's $50M total.

Then take $9.5 million (the difference between ERFA and a top-10 lineman for 1 year) and another $7.2 million (the difference between Round 1 RFA and a top-10 lineman for 1 year), and you get $17 million - that's our potential "gift" to him by not being hard-asses. A third of the contract.

So, 5 years, $33M would be my starting point. You can then argue that he should get more because the salary cap would be expected to go up, or maybe because he might have potential to improve to a top-5 LT (although the difference between that and top-10 would be only a couple million).

Then you can argue in the other direction, that getting the deal NOW is a huge benefit to the player, because two seasons of low pay with high injury chance, followed by turning 30 at the end of your RFA year, means there would be a significant chance you'd NEVER get a big NFL contract. So that could be worth several million the other way.

Personally, I think all of that almost balances out, so something in the ballpark of 5 years, $35 million would be fair. In reality, it'll probably be closer to 5 years, $40 million. Keep in mind, that's as much as Antonio Brown.

[Born2Steel]

I never really cared about keeping up with the contracts. How is it for our starting 5? If AV gets a bump, what are the others going to want? Our line is finally becoming very good. I don't want someone to leave for more money and break up the band.

[AtlantaDan]

I never really cared about keeping up with the contracts. How is it for our starting 5? If AV gets a bump, what are the others going to want? Our line is finally becoming very good. I don't want someone to leave for more money and break up the band.

First current O-line starter other than AV who will be a free agent is Foster in 2019, when he will be 33. Pouncey and Gilbert are free agents in 2020 - DeCastro in 2022.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/

The rest of the line other than AV is locked up until they probably will be released or Ben retires.

[Born2Steel]

Sounds like we're good for a 3-peat championship run then.

[Psycho Ward 86]

There's no appreciable difference between the third-best and 7th-best, it's like $12M versus $11.5M.

Figure it this way: If we paid him top-10 money, that's still over $10M a year. Say we give him a 5-year contract, that's $50M total.

Then take $9.5 million (the difference between ERFA and a top-10 lineman for 1 year) and another $7.2 million (the difference between Round 1 RFA and a top-10 lineman for 1 year), and you get $17 million - that's our potential "gift" to him by not being hard-asses. A third of the contract.

So, 5 years, $33M would be my starting point. You can then argue that he should get more because the salary cap would be expected to go up, or maybe because he might have potential to improve to a top-5 LT (although the difference between that and top-10 would be only a couple million).

Then you can argue in the other direction, that getting the deal NOW is a huge benefit to the player, because two seasons of low pay with high injury chance, followed by turning 30 at the end of your RFA year, means there would be a significant chance you'd NEVER get a big NFL contract. So that could be worth several million the other way.

Personally, I think all of that almost balances out, so something in the ballpark of 5 years, $35 million would be fair. In reality, it'll probably be closer to 5 years, $40 million. Keep in mind, that's as much as Antonio Brown.

Im on board. Although I would definitely drop the 5 year hypothetical to 3 years. Villanueva has essentially only been a starter for 1.5 seasons, and he wasnt playing well in his 1st couple of starts in both seasons. Not to mention he'll be 29 at the beginning of next season.

[steelreserve]

Im on board. Although I would definitely drop the 5 year hypothetical to 3 years. Villanueva has essentially only been a starter for 1.5 seasons, and he wasnt playing well in his 1st couple of starts in both seasons. Not to mention he'll be 29 at the beginning of next season.

If we're doing that, then fuck it - what's even the point of working out a 3-year deal? ERFA, RFA, then franchise tag could accomplish the exact same thing for a lot less money and no risk to us.

Yeah, there's the idea of rewarding him for being a good guy - but not to that extent. If we give him a real contract, I'm thinking it'll almost certainly be longer than 3 years, otherwise there's nothing in it for us.

Maybe if you added up the cost of the ERFA/RFA/Franchise deal and gave it to him all at once, for like 3 years and $16 million, that provides certainty for both sides and helps him a little. But it's not super attractive. I don't know, maybe that plus a couple option years for top-10 money? That's the only way I could see something like that being worthwhile for anyone.