Show Butler the Door

[Craic]

Yes,

I am starting a thread calling for a coach to be fired.

Our CBs made great headway this year and our defense came alive. The problem is, the coach HAS TO put the players in a position to make plays. Zone coverage, again? If this were the first or second, even the fourth of fifth game this year, I wouldn't be worried with rookies; but it is the AFCCG. You KNOW you will lose with Zone coverage, so at least come out in man and see if you can win it. But nope. Not at all. We go right back to Dick LeBeau Zone defense—the type of defense that teams figured out starting in December of 2000.

It's time to pick from a new tree. That also means I do NOT want to see any of our assistant coaches getting the nod. I want someone fresh​.

[Edman]

Zone Coverage again, against one of the best quarterbacks that have made a career against the Zone Coverage.

[fansince'76]

Agreed. Same old Dick LeBeau BS that Brady has made a career shredding.

[Edman]

Agreed. Same old Dick LeBeau BS that Brady has made a career shredding.

And unfortunately, not smart enough to adjust his defenses.

[Mojouw]

Dont have the roster yet for man coverage. Burns and Gilbert could - rest are strictly zone guys.

Gotta go to war with the army you have, not the one you want.

[SteelerFanInStl]

I wanted someone new when Butler was hired. I knew that he'd continue with what LeBeau was doing.

[RunNGun]

Zone Coverage again, against one of the best quarterbacks that have made a career against the Zone Coverage.

I'm not ready to call for heads. Not in the slightest. I'm going to accept that we were beaten by a better football team. Tom Brady proved once again that he is the greatest of all time.
Butler had this defense playing as well as any team in the league in the last half of the season and in the first two playoff gasmes. We all knew it would take time with all the youth to click, but he did his job and got them to where they needed to be. Kudos to Butler this season and I expect to see a top 10 defense next year with Keith as our coordinator.

[Iron Steeler]

I couldnt beleive it when i saw it...

No way are the dumb enough to play zone the whole game. Nope theu were that dumb

[MrPgh]

The Steelers remain the only team that doesn't seem to understand that Brady destroys zone coverage.

[Craic]

Dont have the roster yet for man coverage. Burns and Gilbert could - rest are strictly zone guys.

Gotta go to war with the army you have, not the one you want.

Doesn't matter. If you know you're going to lose (3-10 against the Pats*) playing that scheme, then at least try something different. And, Gay can cover in the slot. Go man and let the safeties play a shell over the top. If you have three WRs on the field, that still leaves six to rush the passer, two of which can peel off to cover TEs or RBs coming out of the backfield. If BOTH ran routes, you'd still have a four man rush against a five man line.

[EzraTank]

So it's all on Butler but isn't Tomlin a defensive guy as well?

Maybe he didn't cheer loud enough at Butler's meetings.

[lipps83]

They never should have hired Butler.

That was the biggest mistake ownership could have made. Stop living on past successes.

It was the AWESOME players that made Lebeau look good. Not his record breaking lost games in the 4th quarter defense. That defense was/is garbage. The all pros made it look good.

They would have made any scheme look good.

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So it's all on Butler but isn't Tomlin a defensive guy as well?

Maybe he didn't cheer loud enough at Butler's meetings.

It is all on Butler. Management is all about that Lebeau shit for some reason. Butler was the guy to replace Lebeau before Tomlin was ever hired.

Sure, Tomlin could tell him to adjust, but he wouldn't. Maybe for a series or two, but it will eventually go back to the same tired shit.

Butler is that dumb, just like Lebeau.

[RunNGun]

We're a bunch of spoiled fans. We made it as far as we deserved. No one is to blame. We don't match up well enough in man. Don't pretend you're a coach and know mare than these guys. We don't run man because our coaches have no trust in our guys to do it. Plain and simple and I'm sure it's for good reason. Take this L and bank on the team improving next year.

[fansince'76]

It is all on Butler. Management is all about that Lebeau shit for some reason. Butler was the guy to replace Lebeau before Tomlin was ever hired.

That's because LeBeau has been built up into a legend.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Problem is we hired within and got a DB clone with less knowledge. Ps. not a fan of hiring within the org.

[Iron Steeler]

Who else is out there. Someone with a man coverage mentality and pressure

[tube517]

We go right back to Dick LeBeau Zone defense—the type of defense that teams figured out starting in December of 2000.

This.

Bellicheat is the only one who is left from that timeframe and only has to cruise control when playing the Steelers.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Who else is out there. Someone with a man coverage mentality and pressure

Any with that would work and knows how to switch it up. Bring in Rex lol.

[pczach]

Dont have the roster yet for man coverage. Burns and Gilbert could - rest are strictly zone guys.

Gotta go to war with the army you have, not the one you want.

I agree to a certain degree, but I think that you have to mix things up to give a guy like Brady different looks and force him to make some tight throws.

The other thing that really bothered me was rushing three many times during the game. The defense took a big step forward from the beginning of the season when they were doing that a lot. Once they stopped rushing three and trying to cover and started bringing more pressure, the defense improved greatly.

I just don't understand the game plan. It didn't work, and they didn't make many adjustments or give them looks to make them change what they were doing. That's what coaches are supposed to do, even if it's not what your team does best. There are times you need to go to things that aren't your strength if what you are doing isn't working, and change to play a defense that is known to give Brady trouble.

If the other team keeps hitting home runs off of your fastball, you need to mix in some curveballs even if it isn't your best pitch. With that said, I don't think that Butler was even throwing the fastball. Rushing three is just playing into Brady's strengths and was not what this defense did best this year.

I enjoyed the season. I'm proud of how far they went. I really believe next year is the year they should ready to go for it all, and I have been saying that all year. It's just difficult to watch your team go down without pulling out all the stops.

[steelreserve]

Dont have the roster yet for man coverage. Burns and Gilbert could - rest are strictly zone guys.

Gotta go to war with the army you have, not the one you want.

Against most teams, you'd be right. Against a team with an unathletic all-white receiving corps, I beg to differ. The Patriots' guys don't beat you, they run to a spot. How many times did we see a linebacker chasing after #15 from behind and making him look like Jerry Rice? Stupid, stupid game planning doomed us from the start.

[Mojouw]

Against most teams, you'd be right. Against a team with an unathletic all-white receiving corps, I beg to differ. The Patriots' guys don't beat you, they run to a spot. How many times did we see a linebacker chasing after #15 from behind and making him look like Jerry Rice? Stupid, stupid game planning doomed us from the start.

Every single one of those dudes is listed as running a 4.4-4.5. Plenty fast enough to make any of the Steelers DBs look foolish.

I agree with what you are saying for the most part. But the reaction around here is the result of most Steelers fans seriously underestimating just how good this Patriots team really is.

[Shoes]

Against most teams, you'd be right. Against a team with an unathletic all-white receiving corps, I beg to differ. The Patriots' guys don't beat you, they run to a spot. How many times did we see a linebacker chasing after #15 from behind and making him look like Jerry Rice? Stupid, stupid game planning doomed us from the start.

Yep, rinse and repeat.

[lipps83]

Not sure if anyone noticed, but the only times the defense really had any semblance of success tonight was when they rushed at least 5?

Did anyone notice that?

Mostly it was 3 or 4 and Brady had a career day, broke the record for pass yards in a championship game, and Hogan and the other dude had most yards for a duo.

That isn't a player issue, that is a scheme issue.

[JimHarbaugh'ssoakedtissue]

Not sure if anyone noticed, but the only times the defense really had any semblance of success tonight was when they rushed at least 5?

Did anyone notice that?

Mostly it was 3 or 4 and Brady had a career day, broke the record for pass yards in a championship game, and Hogan and the other dude had most yards for a duo.

That isn't a player issue, that is a scheme issue.

Seen it and agreed and Brady had time to enjoy a cup of coffee and smoke a cig on one of the early TDS.

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This is Butler and when you have issues with a coach. You don't hire another unknown with his same philosophy just trying to be nice to them.

[steelreserve]

Every single one of those dudes is listed as running a 4.4-4.5. Plenty fast enough to make any of the Steelers DBs look foolish.

I agree with what you are saying for the most part. But the reaction around here is the result of most Steelers fans seriously underestimating just how good this Patriots team really is.

We made them look far better than they actually were. We basically lined up and said "OK, well give you 10 yards whenever you want," and they said "lol, thanks!"

Unless our secondary is secretly much, much worse than we thought, there was no excuse for that scheme. Hell, even if it is that bad, there was no excuse for it. At least TRY to win, don't just hand them the game on a silver platter.

[Mojouw]

We made them look far better than they actually were. We basically lined up and said "OK, well give you 10 yards whenever you want," and they said "lol, thanks!"

Unless our secondary is secretly much, much worse than we thought, there was no excuse for that scheme. Hell, even if it is that bad, there was no excuse for it. At least TRY to win, don't just hand them the game on a silver platter.

I didn't see that much of a too big a cushion thing. I saw the Pats flooding individual zones with more receiving options than the Steelers had defenders in the area. On the first Pats TD Cockerell took the outside guy and there was no defender to take the inside guy (Hogan). That is either scheme or lack of communication between the players. I don't know which. Do I like zone defense? Not really. But there are hardly any "man coverage" teams in the NFL right now. The few that do all have more talented and experienced DBs than the Steelers currently feature.

Burns, Davis, Cockrell, Mitchell, Gay, and Dupree (he dropped in coverage several times) all made multiple mental mistakes that contributed to this looking really bad. Let's not forget that up front no one got to Brady when they did send multiple pass rushers. That plays a role as well. In general I am not ready to throw out the marriage of Tomlin's Cover-2 with Butler/Lebeau zone blitzes yet just because of one terrible playoff lose.

What I will say I would really hope to see as a fan, is that the Steelers bring in AND use more man coverage capable guys. Burns, Davis, and one really really hopes Gilbert is a start but not enough yet.

[fansince'76]

We made them look far better than they actually were. We basically lined up and said "OK, well give you 10 yards whenever you want," and they said "lol, thanks!"

Unless our secondary is secretly much, much worse than we thought, there was no excuse for that scheme. Hell, even if it is that bad, there was no excuse for it. At least TRY to win, don't just hand them the game on a silver platter.

This. They've been shitting all over LeBeau's "tackle the catch!" crap for years now. And we roll it right back out there again.

[steelreserve]

I didn't see that much of a too big a cushion thing. I saw the Pats flooding individual zones with more receiving options than the Steelers had defenders in the area. On the first Pats TD Cockerell took the outside guy and there was no defender to take the inside guy (Hogan). That is either scheme or lack of communication between the players. I don't know which. Do I like zone defense? Not really. But there are hardly any "man coverage" teams in the NFL right now. The few that do all have more talented and experienced DBs than the Steelers currently feature.

Burns, Davis, Cockrell, Mitchell, Gay, and Dupree (he dropped in coverage several times) all made multiple mental mistakes that contributed to this looking really bad. Let's not forget that up front no one got to Brady when they did send multiple pass rushers. That plays a role as well. In general I am not ready to throw out the marriage of Tomlin's Cover-2 with Butler/Lebeau zone blitzes yet just because of one terrible playoff lose.

What I will say I would really hope to see as a fan, is that the Steelers bring in AND use more man coverage capable guys. Burns, Davis, and one really really hopes Gilbert is a start but not enough yet.

I mean, look. What you described there in the first paragraph is a scheme that left the door wide open for them, and they abused it. I don't think our defenders, who had been communicating at least OK all season, suddenly forgot some of the most basic elements of the game.

You don't have to be a "man coverage team" in order to use it when called for. This is the NFL; everyone knows how to play man, everyone knows how to jam receivers and play tight coverage off the line. It might not be their strength or what they do all the time, but it doesn't mean they can't do it. I'd rather have three guys playing B-minus man coverage against B-minus receivers, than three guys who are used to playing zone defense and it turns into an automatic F because the B-minus receivers know exactly where to run.

In general I am not ready to throw out the marriage of Tomlin's Cover-2 with Butler/Lebeau zone blitzes yet just because of one terrible playoff lose.

It's not because of one playoff loss. It's because of many, many losses over more than a decade to the same stupid team over the same stupid shit. It just doesn't work against that kind of offense. And guess what, more often than not, that's who we're going to have to beat to get to the Super Bowl, even though flaming out early or missing the playoffs entirely for most of the past 5 years may have made us forget it.

[j-d-s]

Hmm. Should we hire Rex Ryan as Defensive Coordinator?

[lipps83]

Hmm. Should we hire Rex Ryan as Defensive Coordinator?

Anyone but Butler, damn.

You know who had a great game plan against the Pats?

Romeo Crennel.

You know who doesn't? Ever? Not even once?

Lebeau and Butler.