Jones finally benched

[Rotorhead]

So, if J Gilbert plays and shows that he would be an upgrade, what would you all think about moving Gay to safety, benching Mitchell and our 3 CB's being Gilbert, Burns and Cockrell with Davis and Gay as the safeties. Gay knows the system enough to play the position, he can tackle and he can cover as well. It was just a thought I had while stuck in traffic this morning (it snowed finally and all the transplant pothead californians that moved here for the pot couldnt figure out why there summer tired cars wouldnt go this morning . . .)

[teegre]

So, if J Gilbert plays and shows that he would be an upgrade, what would you all think about moving Gay to safety, benching Mitchell and our 3 CB's being Gilbert, Burns and Cockrell with Davis and Gay as the safeties. Gay knows the system enough to play the position, he can tackle and he can cover as well. It was just a thought I had while stuck in traffic this morning (it snowed finally and all the transplant pothead californians that moved here for the pot couldnt figure out why there summer tired cars wouldnt go this morning . . .)

I like the "outside the box" thinking.

IMO, I'd keep Gay in the slot. He's very good there.

[Mojouw]

I like the "outside the box" thinking.

IMO, I'd keep Gay in the slot. He's very good there.

Gilbert might be able to make the switch to FS. He's big and doesn't mind hitting. Cockrell, Burns, Gilbert, and Davis. Young fast and maybe good?

sadly I suspect Gilbert is crazy dumb. Him being too dumb basically explains his entire career.

[j-d-s]

When I saw the thread title I hoped they got rid of Landry Jones for good.

[Craic]

This has been a big fault of this coaching staff in the past. Let's hope that this begins to change.

No, it hasn't. In fact, it's been the opposite. Tomlin's been too quick with the hook too many times, and its cost us. Remember Sweed? Got pulled every time he dropped the ball. Tomlin never allowed him to work through his issues and IMO, it broke his confidence. How about that 2012 Cleveland game where Tomlin pulled every running back after a fumble, so no RB was able to hit a rhythm or work through issues. We ended up with 5 RB fumbles that game, cycling all the way through our RB rotation (including Rainey as 4th).

Personally, I'm glad to see Tomlin has grown as a coach and now, won't pull players immediately after they make a couple of mistakes. On the other hand, three years is more than enough time for a player to show what they have (Jones has lost about a year to injury, so I'm not counting that time).

[cold-hard-steel]

One Jones down , one to go .

[SteelerFanInStl]

No, it hasn't. In fact, it's been the opposite. Tomlin's been too quick with the hook too many times, and its cost us. Remember Sweed? Got pulled every time he dropped the ball. Tomlin never allowed him to work through his issues and IMO, it broke his confidence. How about that 2012 Cleveland game where Tomlin pulled every running back after a fumble, so no RB was able to hit a rhythm or work through issues. We ended up with 5 RB fumbles that game, cycling all the way through our RB rotation (including Rainey as 4th).

Personally, I'm glad to see Tomlin has grown as a coach and now, won't pull players immediately after they make a couple of mistakes. On the other hand, three years is more than enough time for a player to show what they have (Jones has lost about a year to injury, so I'm not counting that time).

Yes, it has. Far more often Tomlin has stuck with under-performing players instead of giving anyone else a chance. Jones has been shoved into the starting lineup since his rookie year and he's kept the starting job, when he's been healthy enough to play, despite sucking most of the time. Players like Lance Moore and Boykin came to this team with NFL experience but had to sit while other players sucked game after game.

[Craic]

Yes, it has. Far more often Tomlin has stuck with under-performing players instead of giving anyone else a chance. Jones has been shoved into the starting lineup since his rookie year and he's kept the starting job, when he's been healthy enough to play, despite sucking most of the time. Players like Lance Moore and Boykin came to this team with NFL experience but had to sit while other players sucked game after game.

Boykin? Really? You're going with Boykin? He's out of the league at this point, only one year after being with us. There's a reason he sat. And, before someone says, yeah, but B-B-B-Blake. Blake is employed as an NFL CB. Boykin isn't.

Lance Moore. Wow, you mean that receiver that's now retired only one year after being with the Steelers? The same one who went to the Lions and after catching twice as many balls, only scored 2 more TDs and lowered his YPC and YPG average? That Moore? The same one sitting on a roster with Antonio Brown, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Markus Wheaton (who was better at the time), and a young stud in Martavis Bryant who caught fire half way through the season? Who did you want benched for Moore?

[Mojouw]

Boykin? Really? You're going with Boykin? He's out of the league at this point, only one year after being with us. There's a reason he sat. And, before someone says, yeah, but B-B-B-Blake. Blake is employed as an NFL CB. Boykin isn't.

Lance Moore. Wow, you mean that receiver that's now retired only one year after being with the Steelers? The same one who went to the Lions and after catching twice as many balls, only scored 2 more TDs and lowered his YPC and YPG average? That Moore? The same one sitting on a roster with Antonio Brown, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Markus Wheaton (who was better at the time), and a young stud in Martavis Bryant who caught fire half way through the season? Who did you want benched for Moore?

Moore either couldn't or wouldn't block. That is why he was in the "doghouse". Same reason that Rogers found himself there this year. For an offense that features the "bubble/tunnel screen" to the RB, AB, and whoever runs as the #2 wideout to a great degree, the rest of the skill position players have to block on the edge. Moore didn't really do that. Justin Brown did. I know that JB stunk as a WR, but in this offense that wasn't the point.

Moore, unlike DHB, was unwilling to change his game to fit a new scheme and philosophy - so he got run out of town. How is this still surprising?

[SteelerFanInStl]

Boykin? Really? You're going with Boykin? He's out of the league at this point, only one year after being with us. There's a reason he sat. And, before someone says, yeah, but B-B-B-Blake. Blake is employed as an NFL CB. Boykin isn't.

Lance Moore. Wow, you mean that receiver that's now retired only one year after being with the Steelers? The same one who went to the Lions and after catching twice as many balls, only scored 2 more TDs and lowered his YPC and YPG average? That Moore? The same one sitting on a roster with Antonio Brown, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Markus Wheaton (who was better at the time), and a young stud in Martavis Bryant who caught fire half way through the season? Who did you want benched for Moore?

That has nothing to do with why they weren't playing while they were on the Steelers. When Boykin finally got in, he played better than Blake. That's a fact. What has happened with him since then is because of an injury and you know that.

You also know what I'm talking about with Moore. He sat while Justin Brown was getting playing time. We signed him in FA only to sit him on the bench.

How about Cam Thomas? Why was Cam Thomas playing so much last year. Anyone on the roster would've been a better option.

Add Landry Jones to that list also. He has sucked every chance that he's gotten to play but yet the team hasn't done anything to try to replace him until they grabbed Mettenberger.

This will be my only reply to you because, like always, you're here just to try to be confrontational and tell people that they're wrong. This is a forum for discussion of OPINIONS. Yours is not more important, or correct, than anyone else's.

[Mojouw]

No one will ever really understand what went on with Boykin. I suspect he was either dumb in the meeting room or a locker room cancer. Eagles couldn't wait to get rid of him despite good play. Steelers didn't even want to play him despite good play when he was on the field. If I remember correctly hr was talked about as a camp cut until he got hurt. What's my point? Something weird follows Boykin around.

See my reasons above for why Moore didn't play. He didn't or wouldn't block. Not complicated or strange. Not sure that I agree with it, but there is no strange conspiracy of secret unfathomable doghouses.

Cam Thomas played because there was no one else on the roster that could play DT or DE. I think we can argue that he never should've been signed, but the Rams signed him after what he did here last year. There are only do many people that large and athletic to go around. Cam Thomas will have an NFL job almost as long as he wants one.

While I agree that Landry Jones is not good, to say they have done nothing to replace him isn't exactly true. Vick, Gradkowski, and Mettenberger have all been brought in or were already here to provide Landry Jones insurance. They also rooted around pretty heavily in the undrafted QB bargain bin to try and find somebody this off season.

I don't really think anyone is trying to stifle anyone elses opinion. I do feel that some of us are strongly arguing for the use of some facts as the groundwork for thrashing out various opinions.


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[tube517]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/12...medium=twitter

[Mojouw]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/12...medium=twitter

I have no idea what they are going to do when Harrison retires. But here is what I hope shakes out:

1. Dupree proves the rest of this season that he can marry his athletic potential to pass-rush production at the NFL level.
2. Moats and Chickilio are retained for depth. Both have proven they can play well enough to not get you crushed at the NFL level.
3. Pay the cost and move up in the draft to get a "plug and play" rookie OLB.
4. Re-sign Jones to be depth. He could fill in at OLB and ILB. Gives you a year to draft Shazier a running mate if they let Timmons walk. I know that Vince Williams exists, but I really think that after 16 games of Larry Foote 2.0 the Steelers will be talking about upgrading to someone more dynamic...

[86WARD]

I'd like to see them spend for a solid free agent.

[teegre]

I have no idea what they are going to do when Harrison retires. But here is what I hope shakes out:

1. Dupree proves the rest of this season that he can marry his athletic potential to pass-rush production at the NFL level.
2. Moats and Chickilio are retained for depth. Both have proven they can play well enough to not get you crushed at the NFL level.
3. Pay the cost and move up in the draft to get a "plug and play" rookie OLB.
4. Re-sign Jones to be depth. He could fill in at OLB and ILB. Gives you a year to draft Shazier a running mate if they let Timmons walk. I know that Vince Williams exists, but I really think that after 16 games of Larry Foote 2.0 the Steelers will be talking about upgrading to someone more dynamic...

This is the year to draft an OLB. There are literally TEN who could go in R1.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I have no idea what they are going to do when Harrison retires. But here is what I hope shakes out:

1. Dupree proves the rest of this season that he can marry his athletic potential to pass-rush production at the NFL level.
2. Moats and Chickilio are retained for depth. Both have proven they can play well enough to not get you crushed at the NFL level.
3. Pay the cost and move up in the draft to get a "plug and play" rookie OLB.
4. Re-sign Jones to be depth. He could fill in at OLB and ILB. Gives you a year to draft Shazier a running mate if they let Timmons walk. I know that Vince Williams exists, but I really think that after 16 games of Larry Foote 2.0 the Steelers will be talking about upgrading to someone more dynamic...

not everyone on the team needs to be a super star. Really dont think theres much if any drop off between Williams and Timmons unless Timmons goes on to have a yesteryear renaissance. with our big boost in cap space i say we make one "bigger" signing. i think if we backload bell, brown and tuitt's incoming contracts we'll be fine. were going year to year with Ben as far as im concerned. My wishlist in of good to decent OLB options that would make an instant impact for us:

Melvin Ingram is tops for me. Some injury concerns, but he seems fine in recent years health wise. Could be an enormous boon.

Nick Perry finally has his coming out party. Not a guy you want to be the focal point of your pass rush but he's really rounded out his game and packer fans would agree. Well above average starter.

Sam Acho is another well rounded but underutilized guy. Probably seems most like a steelers signing in my opinion. I feel the same way about Alex Okafor. Both ex-cardinals, maybe we'll be the ones doing the poaching this time?

If were looking for a low risk high reward guy, Junior Galette could be interesting. 2 torn achilles in consecutive years but he had consecutive double digit sack seasons prior and he was probably one of the most underrated pass rush nightmares in the league for a short time. Then there's also the domestic abuse thing. Gotta figure his price tag is next to nothing, but if we get anything out of him...

[Steeldude]

I have no idea what they are going to do when Harrison retires. But here is what I hope shakes out:

1. Dupree proves the rest of this season that he can marry his athletic potential to pass-rush production at the NFL level.
2. Moats and Chickilio are retained for depth. Both have proven they can play well enough to not get you crushed at the NFL level.
3. Pay the cost and move up in the draft to get a "plug and play" rookie OLB.
4. Re-sign Jones to be depth. He could fill in at OLB and ILB. Gives you a year to draft Shazier a running mate if they let Timmons walk. I know that Vince Williams exists, but I really think that after 16 games of Larry Foote 2.0 the Steelers will be talking about upgrading to someone more dynamic...

No to Jones. Tomlin will start him again next season.

Dupree is still an unknown. I feel the Steelers will need to draft an OLB in the first round.

[Mojouw]

not everyone on the team needs to be a super star. Really dont think theres much if any drop off between Williams and Timmons unless Timmons goes on to have a yesteryear renaissance. with our big boost in cap space i say we make one "bigger" signing. i think if we backload bell, brown and tuitt's incoming contracts we'll be fine. were going year to year with Ben as far as im concerned. My wishlist in of good to decent OLB options that would make an instant impact for us:

Melvin Ingram is tops for me. Some injury concerns, but he seems fine in recent years health wise. Could be an enormous boon.

Nick Perry finally has his coming out party. Not a guy you want to be the focal point of your pass rush but he's really rounded out his game and packer fans would agree. Well above average starter.

Sam Acho is another well rounded but underutilized guy. Probably seems most like a steelers signing in my opinion. I feel the same way about Alex Okafor. Both ex-cardinals, maybe we'll be the ones doing the poaching this time?

If were looking for a low risk high reward guy, Junior Galette could be interesting. 2 torn achilles in consecutive years but he had consecutive double digit sack seasons prior and he was probably one of the most underrated pass rush nightmares in the league for a short time. Then there's also the domestic abuse thing. Gotta figure his price tag is next to nothing, but if we get anything out of him...

I agree that not everyone has to be a super-star. But look at the collection of athletes that this team can run out there. What do they all have in common? They are just about all young and cheap. Whether it is Timmons or Williams at ILB next year, need to get another player in the pipeline so that you can either stop paying Timmons or upgrade AND save money on Williams. Does it need to be a first round pick? Of course not. In fact, I just assumed it was going to be Freeney.

I'm thinking about the defense kinda like the recent run at WR. 1 or 2 guys you pay through that 2nd contract to build around (Ward, AB) and then a bunch of highly athletic lottery picks that you run through the system until you can't afford them anymore. But that doesn't matter because you have 3 guys behind them on the depth chart who should be able to step right in.

That was the problem with the post 2010 defense in my opinion. Colbert and company let it get stale. A couple of guys didn't pan out and a they never had an organizational philosophy to push vets off the roster. So once guys got old, there wasn't a ton behind them. Although to be fair, if Shamarko, Cortez Allen, and Woodley would have all lived up to their billing, I suspect none of us would be having this conversation as we would be to busy planning for Roethlisberger's 4th SB. Long story short, they let the well go dry.

You are starting to bring me around on Perry. Problem is, he is going to get paid by someone as he finally put the sack #'s up this year and he has always been really good against the run. Major drawback, is that he only did it for one year and he has never played a full season since entering the league. Weird fact.

[Psycho Ward 86]

I agree that not everyone has to be a super-star. But look at the collection of athletes that this team can run out there. What do they all have in common? They are just about all young and cheap. Whether it is Timmons or Williams at ILB next year, need to get another player in the pipeline so that you can either stop paying Timmons or upgrade AND save money on Williams. Does it need to be a first round pick? Of course not. In fact, I just assumed it was going to be Freeney.

I'm thinking about the defense kinda like the recent run at WR. 1 or 2 guys you pay through that 2nd contract to build around (Ward, AB) and then a bunch of highly athletic lottery picks that you run through the system until you can't afford them anymore. But that doesn't matter because you have 3 guys behind them on the depth chart who should be able to step right in.

That was the problem with the post 2010 defense in my opinion. Colbert and company let it get stale. A couple of guys didn't pan out and a they never had an organizational philosophy to push vets off the roster. So once guys got old, there wasn't a ton behind them. Although to be fair, if Shamarko, Cortez Allen, and Woodley would have all lived up to their billing, I suspect none of us would be having this conversation as we would be to busy planning for Roethlisberger's 4th SB. Long story short, they let the well go dry.

You are starting to bring me around on Perry. Problem is, he is going to get paid by someone as he finally put the sack #'s up this year and he has always been really good against the run. Major drawback, is that he only did it for one year and he has never played a full season since entering the league. Weird fact.

Great points!

Small clause on Freeney. Assuming you literally meant Freeney (and not just any random athletic lottery pick), he's actually on the saints practice squad now

And out of the UFA's i pointed out, i highly recommend people look into sam acho and alex okafor. i honestly think they have classic steeler signings written all over them and by "classic steeler signing," i dont mean the dirt cheap guys who help the team in their bit roles (mewelde moore, jerricho cotchery) im talking about the fairly to really cheap guys that have a pretty booming impact (deangelo williams, ryan clark, james farrior). those examples are way too extreme but you probably get what i mean