View Poll Results: Your thoughts on AB asking for a new contract

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  • This is coming directly from him—he instigated conversations and wants it done

    4 26.67%
  • General want, may have come up in conversation, but not at the forefront of his mind

    4 26.67%
  • It's a writer making news by leading questions that AB answered honestly, if unwisely

    5 33.33%
  • It's simply recycled garbage and AB maybe didn't even talk to the guy

    2 13.33%
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Thread: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I did the same thing at first. Sorry, I forgot to say, you have to click on the YAC average so it'll sort it that way for you. He was fourth in YAC total, but 19th in YAC average. (Also, you have to add the WR filter and the 60 catchers or higher filter, or AB ends up something like 60th on that list. I filtered those out because it's unfair to compare him to some guy he caught three balls and ran one of them 40 yards, all season. Also because it's unfair to compare him to RBs catching the ball in the flat with yards of green to run.
    Ah... got it.

    As I'm pushing the "YAC per reception" button, I notice some things:

    1. The top player on the list is Tyrell Williams, who I saw score an 80-yard TD... and, only one other reception. My thought (which you also thought of) about that is that players with fewer receptions can have their YAC average skewed by one long TD. I'm wondering how many guys ahead of AB had a long (80 yard) TD, which inflated their YAC average...

    2. 60+ receptions is a good start, because after that many receptions, it sort of eliminates the chance that one long TD would overly influence their YAC average. That said, AB had double that number (136), which would almost assuredly eliminate any/all long receptions for him. Still... let's look.

    3. TANGENT: The second and third receivers on that list is not until 60 & 61... then, two more at 75 and then 83. We've already agreed that players with few receptions can have a long TD skew their YAC average. That said, the fact that no meaningful WR shows up in the top 120... it makes one question the usefulness of this stat.

    Back to receivers with 60+ receptions.

    4. ODB, Tate, Cobb, Hilton, & Landry are the top five. After that, it's Cooper, Edelman, Hurns, Snead, Matthews, Benjamin... all of whom are very good receivers, but most of whom (except Edelman) I recall having at least one long TD. It may have only been one (or three in ODB's case), but it might be enough to bump their YAC average from 4.3 (AB's average) to up a little over 5... especially since AB had an extra 60 receptions (point #2) to even out his average.

    5. Eye-ball test. I've never seen a receiver like AB. Maybe he only gains 4.3 yards going forward, and 20 yards going sideways. IDK... stats or not, I haven't seen a player with his jukability since Barry.

  2. #62

    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    Ah... got it.

    As I'm pushing the "YAC per reception" button, I notice some things:

    1. The top player on the list is Tyrell Williams, who I saw score an 80-yard TD... and, only one other reception. My thought (which you also thought of) about that is that players with fewer receptions can have their YAC average skewed by one long TD. I'm wondering how many guys ahead of AB had a long (80 yard) TD, which inflated their YAC average...

    2. 60+ receptions is a good start, because after that many receptions, it sort of eliminates the chance that one long TD would overly influence their YAC average. That said, AB had double that number (136), which would almost assuredly eliminate any/all long receptions for him. Still... let's look.

    3. TANGENT: The second and third receivers on that list is not until 60 & 61... then, two more at 75 and then 83. We've already agreed that players with few receptions can have a long TD skew their YAC average. That said, the fact that no meaningful WR shows up in the top 120... it makes one question the usefulness of this stat.

    Back to receivers with 60+ receptions.

    4. ODB, Tate, Cobb, Hilton, & Landry are the top five. After that, it's Cooper, Edelman, Hurns, Snead, Matthews, Benjamin... all of whom are very good receivers, but most of whom (except Edelman) I recall having at least one long TD. It may have only been one (or three in ODB's case), but it might be enough to bump their YAC average from 4.3 (AB's average) to up a little over 5... especially since AB had an extra 60 receptions (point #2) to even out his average.

    5. Eye-ball test. I've never seen a receiver like AB. Maybe he only gains 4.3 yards going forward, and 20 yards going sideways. IDK... stats or not, I haven't seen a player with his jukability since Barry.
    I may disagree with you, but those are honest and fair assessments.

    1. YAC averages

    YAC averages can definitely be inflated, which is why I went to the 60+ receptions. As for AB having double that, plus another 16, it also means AB had double that, plus another sixteen to hit long runs after catching the ball.

    That said, he had twenty-five 20+ yard runs, and eight 40+ yard runs. Thus, he hit a 20+ yard run 1 out of every 4.12 times he caught the ball. By comparison:

    ODB: 19, 8 on 96 receptions. That means he hit a 20+ yard run 1 out of ever 3.56 times he caught the ball. (I'll just put this stat as: 1/3.56)
    Tate: 7, 1 on 90 receptions. 1/11.25
    Hilton: 17, 6, 69 receptions. 1/3
    Landry: 10, 3, 110 receptions. 1/8.46
    Cooper: 16, 6, 72 receptions. 1/3.27
    Edelman: 8, 1, 61 receptions. 1/6.78
    Hurns: 19, 3, 64 receptions. 1/2.9
    Snead: 15, 3, 69 receptions. 1/3.28
    Matthews: 14, 3, 85 receptions. 1/5
    Benjamin: 12, 6, 68 receptions. 3.78

    So, six players had more 20+ yard runs than Brown did, but that also means six players were more dangerous for breaking long runs than Brown. Doing it an average of once every 3.3 plays, with the best doing it once every 2.9 plays, compared to Brown's 4.12. That puts him pretty much in the middle of the pack (10 listed above, with Brown being 11). So, half the players had more long run gains than Brown, half the players gained more yards on shorter runs across the board than Brown.

    2. Barry Sanders

    Honestly I disagree with you here. We have a better Juker/runner on our own team than Brown, and that's Bell. His problem (on field) is that he doesn't have break-away speed, so he'll get chased down. But I'd say he's better than Brown in the Juke department.

    3. Overall


    So, where does this leave my assessment of Brown? I have no problem saying he's one of the best in the NFL. I have no problem even saying that when you put together the entire picture, and then look at trajectory, at the end of his career, Brown may be in the GOAT discussion, or at the very least GOAT-After Rice discussion. But leading up to this point, while his output the last two or three years makes it look as though he's underpaid; the totality of the contract, how much he still have to prove when he signed it, and the advances/restructuring bonuses he received lead me to conclude the overall contract was, and is still fair, although weighing to the side of the Steelers organization at this point.



  3. #63
    Senior Member Array title="teegre has a reputation beyond repute"> teegre's Avatar

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I may disagree with you, but those are honest and fair assessments.

    1. YAC averages
    YAC averages can definitely be inflated, which is why I went to the 60+ receptions. As for AB having double that, plus another 16, it also means AB had double that, plus another sixteen to hit long runs after catching the ball.

    That said, he had twenty-five 20+ yard runs, and eight 40+ yard runs. Thus, he hit a 20+ yard run 1 out of every 4.12 times he caught the ball. By comparison:

    ODB: 19, 8 on 96 receptions. That means he hit a 20+ yard run 1 out of ever 3.56 times he caught the ball. (I'll just put this stat as: 1/3.56)
    Tate: 7, 1 on 90 receptions. 1/11.25
    Hilton: 17, 6, 69 receptions. 1/3
    Landry: 10, 3, 110 receptions. 1/8.46
    Cooper: 16, 6, 72 receptions. 1/3.27
    Edelman: 8, 1, 61 receptions. 1/6.78
    Hurns: 19, 3, 64 receptions. 1/2.9
    Snead: 15, 3, 69 receptions. 1/3.28
    Matthews: 14, 3, 85 receptions. 1/5
    Benjamin: 12, 6, 68 receptions. 3.78

    So, six players had more 20+ yard runs than Brown did, but that also means six players were more dangerous for breaking long runs than Brown. Doing it an average of once every 3.3 plays, with the best doing it once every 2.9 plays, compared to Brown's 4.12. That puts him pretty much in the middle of the pack (10 listed above, with Brown being 11). So, half the players had more long run gains than Brown, half the players gained more yards on shorter runs across the board than Brown.

    2. Barry Sanders
    Honestly I disagree with you here. We have a better Juker/runner on our own team than Brown, and that's Bell. His problem (on field) is that he doesn't have break-away speed, so he'll get chased down. But I'd say he's better than Brown in the Juke department.

    3. Overall

    So, where does this leave my assessment of Brown? I have no problem saying he's one of the best in the NFL. I have no problem even saying that when you put together the entire picture, and then look at trajectory, at the end of his career, Brown may be in the GOAT discussion, or at the very least GOAT-After Rice discussion. But leading up to this point, while his output the last two or three years makes it look as though he's underpaid; the totality of the contract, how much he still have to prove when he signed it, and the advances/restructuring bonuses he received lead me to conclude the overall contract was, and is still fair, although weighing to the side of the Steelers organization at this point.

    1) STATS
    Very nice. That's a good compilation (a lot of hard work).

    A few weeks ago, I was on Wijipedia, looking at passing records. The names on there were the ones that we'd all expect:

    Jerry Rice, Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison, Marvin Harrison, Jerry Rice, Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Jerry Rice, AB, AB, AB, Marvin Harrison, AB, AB, AB, Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison, AB, AB, AB...

    2) JUKES
    I'm thinking specifically of the play against the Ravens, where AB stopped on a dime, turned 45 degrees, and the entire Ravens defense went right past him.

    3) OVERALL
    I'll concede that 2012-2015 was a "fair" deal for both parties. My hope is that the Rooneys take the initiative in this ONE case, and extend AB right now...

    Because, I see the next two years being historic (and, AB should be paid accordingly):

    2016: 168 for 2100, 17 TD, plus a SuperBowl MVP
    2017: 155 for 2200, 21 TDs, plus the league MVP

  4. #64
    Senior Member Array title="Psycho Ward 86 has a reputation beyond repute"> Psycho Ward 86's Avatar

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    geez, some of these arguments against AB are ridiculous. i dont think redoing his contract 2 years out will set a precedent of other players being huge cry babies about their contracts too. people understand how historic the numbers he's putting up are. he's going to be the 26th highest paid receiver in the league. come on...AB has been nothing but a class act on and off the field, dont keep the best player arguably in the league, distracted. especially with the distraction already instigated by Bryant and Bell. One less thing for the team to worry about. And stop worrying about the salary cap so much. Ben most likely only has 3-4 years left, and it shouldnt surprise anyone if he hangs it up/becomes too injured to be effective sooner than that. At that point, the superbowl isnt realistic unless we get insanely lucky with another franchise QB. By the time Ben is gone, any high cap hit from AB's contract will be easy to swallow becaue our team will be going from superbowl contender to competitive, but not good enough to win it all.

    From what ive read, we have tons of cap space anyways for the next couple years. But we have some big contracts to do?? Dont we always? No problem, we'll do those, and kick the money down the road if need be. The goal is just to keep a Ben Roethlisberger helmed team as loaded as possible as far as im concerned.
    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    We are not Buffalo, We are not Miami. We are the Steelers, we dont blow out teams, we cock tease for ratings and keep games close.

  5. #65
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Extend the contract and give the man about the most deserved raise in the history of the NFL. Not doing it pisses off your best non suspended offensive weapon and sets a terrible precedent for other players.

    Out perform your contract? Tough. The Steelers will never take your side. Now imagine what an agent can do with that bit of information and the pliable mind of a 25 year old coming off his rookie deal? Not to mention free agents.

  6. #66
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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86 View Post
    geez, some of these arguments against AB are ridiculous. i dont think redoing his contract 2 years out will set a precedent of other players being huge cry babies about their contracts too. people understand how historic the numbers he's putting up are. he's going to be the 26th highest paid receiver in the league. come on...AB has been nothing but a class act on and off the field, dont keep the best player arguably in the league, distracted. especially with the distraction already instigated by Bryant and Bell. One less thing for the team to worry about. And stop worrying about the salary cap so much. Ben most likely only has 3-4 years left, and it shouldnt surprise anyone if he hangs it up/becomes too injured to be effective sooner than that. At that point, the superbowl isnt realistic unless we get insanely lucky with another franchise QB. By the time Ben is gone, any high cap hit from AB's contract will be easy to swallow becaue our team will be going from superbowl contender to competitive, but not good enough to win it all.

    From what ive read, we have tons of cap space anyways for the next couple years. But we have some big contracts to do?? Dont we always? No problem, we'll do those, and kick the money down the road if need be. The goal is just to keep a Ben Roethlisberger helmed team as loaded as possible as far as im concerned.
    Agree with you on Brown.


    We the fans and the front office of the steelers should feel very lucky that Brown has a great attitude and he does not holdout.

    Brown is a top 5 players in this league right now and his salary at the moment is not even close to being in the top 5 in the NFL, even if we exclude the QB and he would have every reason to make a holdout, but fortunately for the steelers,Brown is a class act

    And the salary cap is far from being a problem right now and superstars like Brown you have to keep them regardless of the price

  7. #67

    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by teegre View Post
    1) STATS
    Very nice. That's a good compilation (a lot of hard work).

    A few weeks ago, I was on Wijipedia, looking at passing records. The names on there were the ones that we'd all expect:

    Jerry Rice, Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison, Marvin Harrison, Jerry Rice, Jerry Rice, Don Hutson, Jerry Rice, AB, AB, AB, Marvin Harrison, AB, AB, AB, Jerry Rice, Marvin Harrison, AB, AB, AB...

    2) JUKES
    I'm thinking specifically of the play against the Ravens, where AB stopped on a dime, turned 45 degrees, and the entire Ravens defense went right past him.

    3) OVERALL
    I'll concede that 2012-2015 was a "fair" deal for both parties. My hope is that the Rooneys take the initiative in this ONE case, and extend AB right now...

    Because, I see the next two years being historic (and, AB should be paid accordingly):

    2016: 168 for 2100, 17 TD, plus a SuperBowl MVP
    2017: 155 for 2200, 21 TDs, plus the league MVP
    Hmm . . . so, what you're saying is, "Pay him now, before we have to pay him even more money later on." Is that right? I still don't like breaking precedent, but that's an argument that I think carries a lot of weight.


  8. #68
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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    Extend the contract and give the man about the most deserved raise in the history of the NFL. Not doing it pisses off your best non suspended offensive weapon and sets a terrible precedent for other players.

    Out perform your contract? Tough. The Steelers will never take your side. Now imagine what an agent can do with that bit of information and the pliable mind of a 25 year old coming off his rookie deal? Not to mention free agents.
    THIS. If anything, not giving AB a new contract sets a bad precedent on the other side of the coin.
    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    We are not Buffalo, We are not Miami. We are the Steelers, we dont blow out teams, we cock tease for ratings and keep games close.

  9. #69

    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86 View Post
    THIS. If anything, not giving AB a new contract sets a bad precedent on the other side of the coin.
    I'm not nearly as worried about that as I am this: "Hey, look, your teammate just got a massive pay increase for making noise. Make some noise and you'll get one too." THAT, I absolutely can hear agents putting into the mind of players. (Not to mention, one of the reasons it looks like Brown DID get his big contract early on--bigger than he earned at the time--was because he was being quiet, while Wallace was making noise. Think about the message THAT sent. It's why the Steelers seldom have lockerroom drama like some other teams I could mention).

    Also, what does it say to the other 51 players on the team when the Steelers refuse to negotiate their contracts early? I don't care about how good Brown is. You and I might think it's a one-off, but I guarantee you players and agents WON'T look at it that way.


  10. #70
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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I'm not nearly as worried about that as I am this: "Hey, look, your teammate just got a massive pay increase for making noise. Make some noise and you'll get one too." THAT, I absolutely can hear agents putting into the mind of players. (Not to mention, one of the reasons it looks like Brown DID get his big contract early on--bigger than he earned at the time--was because he was being quiet, while Wallace was making noise. Think about the message THAT sent. It's why the Steelers seldom have lockerroom drama like some other teams I could mention).

    Also, what does it say to the other 51 players on the team when the Steelers refuse to negotiate their contracts early? I don't care about how good Brown is. You and I might think it's a one-off, but I guarantee you players and agents WON'T look at it that way.
    when's the last time a player deserved a raise THIS badly + didnt get it + and it ended badly? AB is the 2nd most important player on this team. at a fundamental level, youre worrying about the salary cap at the end of the day. theres nothing we will struggle that badly to handle the next 3-4 years, and thats all that really matters right now because it probably isnt realistic to expect Ben to be playing at a high level for that long. and no, this isnt the same as when we went to salary cap purgatory circa 2010 to "keep our super bowl window open." it was always going to be open with Ben around. But now we truly wont have that open for much longer. if im the steelers front office, im throwing all the chips on the table for this one.

    1) Class act? Check
    2) Best in the league? Check
    3) Historic all time numbers? Check
    4) Highly motivated player? Check
    5) Tons of salary cap room in upcoming years? Check
    6) An aging Ben? Check
    7) Way too many offseason distractions already? Check

    I see far more reasons to pull the trigger on this than not
    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    We are not Buffalo, We are not Miami. We are the Steelers, we dont blow out teams, we cock tease for ratings and keep games close.

  11. #71
    Senior Member Array title="Mojouw has a reputation beyond repute"> Mojouw's Avatar

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I'm not nearly as worried about that as I am this: "Hey, look, your teammate just got a massive pay increase for making noise. Make some noise and you'll get one too." THAT, I absolutely can hear agents putting into the mind of players. (Not to mention, one of the reasons it looks like Brown DID get his big contract early on--bigger than he earned at the time--was because he was being quiet, while Wallace was making noise. Think about the message THAT sent. It's why the Steelers seldom have lockerroom drama like some other teams I could mention).

    Also, what does it say to the other 51 players on the team when the Steelers refuse to negotiate their contracts early? I don't care about how good Brown is. You and I might think it's a one-off, but I guarantee you players and agents WON'T look at it that way.
    They can try but it wouldn't be the same unless that player has outperformed all other players at their position for multiple years running.

    I seem to remember Hines Ward got a new deal. The world failed to end.

  12. #72

    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    They can try but it wouldn't be the same unless that player has outperformed all other players at their position for multiple years running.

    I seem to remember Hines Ward got a new deal. The world failed to end.
    Nope.

    Hines Ward was in the final year of his contract. He felt cheated because the organization said they'd take care of him, but they were dragging their feet on a new contract. Not the same at all, especially since they were in the 1 year window.


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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk


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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    Nope.

    Hines Ward was in the final year of his contract. He felt cheated because the organization said they'd take care of him, but they were dragging their feet on a new contract. Not the same at all, especially since they were in the 1 year window.
    Tweet posted by Polamalubeast sums up what I am trying to get at. And you are right about the years on the Ward situation.

    But players know that teams will cut them in heartbeat for any number of reasons. Players need to also know that when you are lighting the entire NFL up like it is a video game that the team will also take care of you.

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk


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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    I am not a numbers expert, but I see no problem with us signing AB this year and giving Ben some consistency at the WR position. I always liked what I saw from Ben with Santonio and never thought we would have someone just as special so quickly as we did. Besides I don't think doing it one year early is that big of a deal. I can understand why we didn't get it done last year, but this year is different in my eyes.

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Butch View Post
    I am not a numbers expert, but I see no problem with us signing AB this year and giving Ben some consistency at the WR position. I always liked what I saw from Ben with Santonio and never thought we would have someone just as special so quickly as we did. Besides I don't think doing it one year early is that big of a deal. I can understand why we didn't get it done last year, but this year is different in my eyes.
    Especially that Colbert and Tomlin had a new contract last year with two years remaining in their contract.

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86 View Post
    when's the last time a player deserved a raise THIS badly + didnt get it + and it ended badly? AB is the 2nd most important player on this team. at a fundamental level, youre worrying about the salary cap at the end of the day. theres nothing we will struggle that badly to handle the next 3-4 years, and thats all that really matters right now because it probably isnt realistic to expect Ben to be playing at a high level for that long. and no, this isnt the same as when we went to salary cap purgatory circa 2010 to "keep our super bowl window open." it was always going to be open with Ben around. But now we truly wont have that open for much longer. if im the steelers front office, im throwing all the chips on the table for this one.

    1) Class act? Check
    2) Best in the league? Check
    3) Historic all time numbers? Check
    4) Highly motivated player? Check
    5) Tons of salary cap room in upcoming years? Check
    6) An aging Ben? Check
    7) Way too many offseason distractions already? Check

    I see far more reasons to pull the trigger on this than not

    How about 8) He's not going to hold out even if he doesn't get a new deal, and you just give him one next offseason, when by the way, he still is not a free agent.

    There, the other 7 reasons are now irrelevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    They can try but it wouldn't be the same unless that player has outperformed all other players at their position for multiple years running.

    I seem to remember Hines Ward got a new deal. The world failed to end.

    Every player's agent thinks he's outperforming all other players at his position. Or if not, he's about to. And either way, that's what his pay should be based on.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    How about 8) He's not going to hold out even if he doesn't get a new deal, and you just give him one next offseason, when by the way, he still is not a free agent.

    There, the other 7 reasons are now irrelevant.





    Every player's agent thinks he's outperforming all other players at his position. Or if not, he's about to. And either way, that's what his pay should be based on.
    In the case of Brown,this is true.Please, the fact that Brown is the 26th highest paid WR in the NFL, this is ridiculous.

    I hate when the steelers are too stubborn...Colbert had an extension with two years remaining on his contract last year ....

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    How about 8) He's not going to hold out even if he doesn't get a new deal, and you just give him one next offseason, when by the way, he still is not a free agent.

    There, the other 7 reasons are now irrelevant.





    Every player's agent thinks he's outperforming all other players at his position. Or if not, he's about to. And either way, that's what his pay should be based on.
    But with AB, the #'s, the game tape, the evaluation of outside experts, etc ALL universally agree that AB is the BEST WR in the league.

    His past two seasons have been the most prolific # of catches ever - http://www.pro-football-reference.co...ar_by_year.htm
    AB's yards per game was historic last year and that counts multiple games with Landry Jones and Vick at the helm - http://www.pro-football-reference.co...gle_season.htm
    On top that he is catching an almost unbelievable 70+% of his targets - http://www.pro-football-reference.co...B/BrowAn04.htm

    Bottom line, there is no way to slice this that AB is not one of the most underpaid players in the league. I do not want to wait for the NEXT contract to pay him for past performance. That is stupid cap management. Extend and pay now, that way when he is over 30 he isn't carrying a cap figure of 12+ million dollars.

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk


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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Just to throw this out there....

    The Steelers FO have a very good track record with WRs and contracts. I think they have a number, and when the WR wants to go over that number, the WR is allowed to walk for his payday. I don't believe that rationale gets thrown out for AB. Also, if our current crop of WRs pan out as expected, Bryant, Coates, Phillips, all continue to improve, and the TEs play to expectation, AB becomes another casualty of becoming worth more than he can earn here. I don't see a huge, long term contract at this time. Of course, the Steelers have already paid him once to keep him. Guess we'll see.

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by steelreserve View Post
    How about 8) He's not going to hold out even if he doesn't get a new deal, and you just give him one next offseason, when by the way, he still is not a free agent.

    There, the other 7 reasons are now irrelevant.





    Every player's agent thinks he's outperforming all other players at his position. Or if not, he's about to. And either way, that's what his pay should be based on.
    you're exactly the kind of employer that no one would ever want to work for. the 7 reasons stand. every player's agent be damned, Brown IS outperforming all other players at his position, and arguably his entire generation of receivers. Also you never answered my initial question. its important to put Antonio's situation into context with precedent situations.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Craic View Post
    I wish he'd just shut up about it and go about his business. He'll have his chance next year to cash in. And, the more he stays quiet and goes about his work, the more likely the Rooneys will give him his big payday.
    lol, you say that like the steelers front office has him by the balls. you have it backwards
    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    We are not Buffalo, We are not Miami. We are the Steelers, we dont blow out teams, we cock tease for ratings and keep games close.

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    Just to throw this out there....

    The Steelers FO have a very good track record with WRs and contracts. I think they have a number, and when the WR wants to go over that number, the WR is allowed to walk for his payday. I don't believe that rationale gets thrown out for AB. Also, if our current crop of WRs pan out as expected, Bryant, Coates, Phillips, all continue to improve, and the TEs play to expectation, AB becomes another casualty of becoming worth more than he can earn here. I don't see a huge, long term contract at this time. Of course, the Steelers have already paid him once to keep him. Guess we'll see.
    name every receiver better than Antonio Brown in the past 20 years. now count how many are currently in the hall of fame. now count how many are shoe ins for the hall of fame. if you have any receivers left over, you are insane. you tear pages out of the rulebook for the truly once a generation level players. and holy hell is that a lot of ifs. Bryant cant even get on the field, Green hasnt proven he can stay healthy at all, Coates has caught 3 nfl passes, JJ has scarcely caught more, and Phillips hasnt even made an nfl roster. AB is the 2nd most important player on this team, and id very much like to give our most important player all the weapons at his disposal until he retires.

    players take time to develop as well. we could continue our streak of successful receiver draft picks but what good does it do to give Ben these raw receivers in the twilight of his career? Let him run with his mustangs, not a 1980 volvo that needs fixing
    Quote Originally Posted by XxKnightxX View Post
    We are not Buffalo, We are not Miami. We are the Steelers, we dont blow out teams, we cock tease for ratings and keep games close.

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Mojouw View Post
    But with AB, the #'s, the game tape, the evaluation of outside experts, etc ALL universally agree that AB is the BEST WR in the league.

    His past two seasons have been the most prolific # of catches ever - http://www.pro-football-reference.co...ar_by_year.htm
    AB's yards per game was historic last year and that counts multiple games with Landry Jones and Vick at the helm - http://www.pro-football-reference.co...gle_season.htm
    On top that he is catching an almost unbelievable 70+% of his targets - http://www.pro-football-reference.co...B/BrowAn04.htm

    Bottom line, there is no way to slice this that AB is not one of the most underpaid players in the league. I do not want to wait for the NEXT contract to pay him for past performance. That is stupid cap management. Extend and pay now, that way when he is over 30 he isn't carrying a cap figure of 12+ million dollars.

    I think you're fooling yourself if you think he's getting any less money per year if he signs now; we're paying him for past performance, future potential, the whole shooting match either way. I would be shocked if it's not in the neighborhood of a $14M average, whether we sign him this offseason or next offseason. So the only thing we have the power to affect is whether we start paying him that much money now, or a year from now - and as long as he's going to actually show up and play, doing it now has NO benefit to us.

    I wouldn't be opposed to using whatever leftover cap space we have this year to help the Brown situation - IF it doesn't interfere with any other moves we want to make in the next month or two, like extending another key player. But doing it just as a nice gesture if it has a real effect on our other workings? Forget it.

    Also (and this is the pessimistic view) we have no idea what the hell is going to happen between now and next offseason. All signs indicate that Brown is a great guy with an excellent work ethic and incredible durability. But that can all change with no warning. You could wake up tomorrow morning and read that he got run over and his leg is torn up beyond repair. Or he had an epiphany and decided to retire because of the danger of concussions; or he got into some bad shit trying to help a shady friend or relative, and that spirals out of control TMZ style as the season progresses; or for all we know, is suddenly facing a yearlong ban for PEDs. You think you know, but you just don't. Then we'd be glad we didn't pull the trigger early. Maybe it's a 5% chance, maybe it's a 1% chance, but it's not zero.
    See you Space Cowboy ...

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86 View Post
    you're exactly the kind of employer that no one would ever want to work for. the 7 reasons stand. every player's agent be damned, Brown IS outperforming all other players at his position, and arguably his entire generation of receivers. Also you never answered my initial question. its important to put Antonio's situation into context with precedent situations.

    - - - Updated - - -



    lol, you say that like the steelers front office has him by the balls. you have it backwards
    No. I say the Steelers front office rewards people who keep quiet and don't try to bail on contracts they've signed two or three years in advance. And don't give the "But the owners get to bail . . ." crap. They don't, not without penalty. That's what "guaranteed money" is, and why players agree to such contracts.

    And speaking of having things backwards . . . you talk about an employer. As an employer for contractors (say, someone working on my home) I get to fire anyone at anytime provided I paid the guaranteed portion of their contract. Furthermore, My last contracted employment when I was the employee had a clause that gave the employer the right to fire me whenever if they saw fit for me not doing my job. So no, what you see in the NFL is EXACTLY the same as contracted employment in the real world. AND, if I outperform everyone else as a contracted employee, I don't get to rip up my contract and get a new one. I have to wait until it is completed and then negotiate a new one without whining and complaining about it.

    Oh yeah, one last thing - the idea that he "outplayed" his contract's a joke. He was contracted to be a WR and play to the best of ability. He's done that. Period. Doing anything less is deserving of being fired by the team. He's done nothing more or less than what he was contracted to do.


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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    I just can't believe what I read.....

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho Ward 86 View Post
    name every receiver better than Antonio Brown in the past 20 years. now count how many are currently in the hall of fame. now count how many are shoe ins for the hall of fame. if you have any receivers left over, you are insane. you tear pages out of the rulebook for the truly once a generation level players. and holy hell is that a lot of ifs. Bryant cant even get on the field, Green hasnt proven he can stay healthy at all, Coates has caught 3 nfl passes, JJ has scarcely caught more, and Phillips hasnt even made an nfl roster. AB is the 2nd most important player on this team, and id very much like to give our most important player all the weapons at his disposal until he retires.

    players take time to develop as well. we could continue our streak of successful receiver draft picks but what good does it do to give Ben these raw receivers in the twilight of his career? Let him run with his mustangs, not a 1980 volvo that needs fixing
    I agree. But the ifs are there. Looking at it from a historical POV, when do the Steelers pay the big contract? I think AB gets a new deal. I don't think he becomes the highest paid. We need him here.

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    Re: More "AB is Dissatisfied With His Contract" Talk

    Quote Originally Posted by Born2Steel View Post
    I agree. But the ifs are there. Looking at it from a historical POV, when do the Steelers pay the big contract? I think AB gets a new deal. I don't think he becomes the highest paid. We need him here.
    As I said in another thread, Ben has had one of the biggest contract in NFL history twice, same for Polamalu, Harrison and Woodley at their position in their moment they have signed their contract.

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