Steelers have had a blind spot when it comes to evaluating DBs in NFL draft

[hawaiiansteeler]

Steelers have had a blind spot when it comes to evaluating defensive backs in NFL draft

April 21, 2016
By Ray Fittipaldo / Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

The Steelers were coming off a Super Bowl appearance after the 2010 season and boasted the best defense in the NFL. But a few months after they were carved up by Aaron Rodgers and the Green Bay Packers in Super Bowl XLV, general manager Kevin Colbert and head coach Mike Tomlin wanted to remake their secondary.

In the 2011 draft, the Steelers spent two of their first four picks on cornerbacks. Curtis Brown was selected in the third round and Cortez Allen in the fourth.

Brown never started a game and was cut after three seasons. Allen started 18 games over his five seasons before he was released last week, 20 months after signing a contract that paid him more than $6 million per season.

It has been five years since those mistaken evaluations, and the Steelers are still trying to make it back to the Super Bowl. They’re also still trying to remake their defensive backfield after another series of draft choices in ensuing years never panned out.

The Steelers have selected nine cornerbacks and safeties in the past five years. Only three of them spent time on the 53-man roster last season and none of them started a game. Safety Shamarko Thomas is the only one who remained on the roster for the entire season. Thomas, Allen and rookie Doran Grant combined to play a grand total of 53 defensive snaps.

Five of the other six draft choices are out of the NFL, and Senquez Golson, last year’s second-round pick, spent his rookie season on injured reserve.

The Cleveland Browns can’t evaluate quarterbacks. Other teams have a hard time evaluating linemen and linebackers. The blind spot in the Steelers’ scouting department in recent years has been the secondary.

“We’ve made some mistakes, there’s no denying that in terms of some of the evaluations,” team president Art Rooney II said in January.

Twenty-five picks after Allen was selected in the 2011 draft, the Seattle Seahawks took cornerback Richard Sherman, who has been named first-team All-Pro three times in his first five seasons. In 2012, the Los Angeles Rams found Trumaine Johnson in the third round and the Carolina Panthers found Josh Norman, a first-team All-Pro last season, in the fourth round.

Meanwhile, the Steelers drafted the likes of Terrence Frederick (2012, seventh round), Terry Hawthorne (2013, fifth round) and Shaquille Richardson (2014, fifth round).

None of them made a 53-man roster in the NFL. Frederick and Hawthorne were cut out from training camp and were not deemed good enough to sign to the practice squad.

The mistaken evaluations of defensive backs since and before 2011 have been contributing factors in the decline of a once-proud defense that finished the 2015 season 30th in the NFL against the pass and allowed a franchise-record 272 passing yards per game.

The 2010 defense, by contrast, allowed 276 yards total per game.

The poor track record can be traced to 2006 when the Steelers used a third-round draft choice on safety Anthony Smith, who was cut after three seasons with the team.

Since 2006, the Steelers have drafted 15 defensive backs.

• Only two have earned second contracts from the Steelers, with Allen being one of them.

• Four never started games for the Steelers. Three were cut in their initial training camp and failed to ever make the Steelers’ 53-man roster.

• There have been plenty of others who made the roster but failed to make a lasting impression. Joe Burnett (2009, fifth round) played one season with the Steelers and never played for another team afterward. Crezdon Butler (2010, fifth round) also only played one season for the Steelers. He has played for seven teams in the past six seasons.

to read rest of article:

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/s...s/201604210003

[GBMelBlount]

Looking at what Munchak has done with the offensive line I wonder if part of the problem with the secondary is coaching.

[Dwinsgames]

Looking at what Munchak has done with the offensive line I wonder if part of the problem with the secondary is coaching.

hard to blame Lake since he has not really been given much to work with but at the same time hard to trust him with anyone who has more talent because he has not shown us much in terms of being able to develop anyone .... so 50/50 on it

[steelreserve]

The defensive equivalent of Munchak would take guys with "potential" like Cortez Allen and make them trend neutral or upward. Maybe he's not going to make Blake into a decent player, but out of the half-dozen or so guys we drafted and the similar number we signed, we'd at least have a serviceable pair of starting cornerbacks. Instead, our guys all just drift along not showing much more than when they came into the league.

What do you think would've happened to Marcus Gilbert if we'd kept our old offensive line coach instead of Munchak? That's basically what's going on with our defensive backs. You can probably chalk half of it up to bad draft picks and bad signings, but not all of it.

[pczach]

They clearly have to do a better job drafting talent in the secondary. I think they need to address the positions of S and CB earlier in the draft occasionally. You aren't going to always find what you need later in the draft and develop that talent.

They also need to do a better job of evaluating talent at those positions, particularly CB. To me, CBs are the hardest position to evaluate.....always have been. With that said, if the people they have doing their primary job of scouting DBs don't improve, they either need to change the evaluation process or they need to be replaced. Somebody's opinions are being leaned on to select the players they've been drafting.

What we don't know is the ratings they have had on all CBs. In other words, maybe there are people in the draft room that love some of the earlier DB picks, but the organization refuses to take them that high. If that's the case, and those highly rated DBs are turning into stars, they need to occasionally address the positon much earlier in the draft to get the talent that they need.

[SteelerFanInStl]

The defensive equivalent of Munchak would take guys with "potential" like Cortez Allen and make them trend neutral or upward. Maybe he's not going to make Blake into a decent player, but out of the half-dozen or so guys we drafted and the similar number we signed, we'd at least have a serviceable pair of starting cornerbacks. Instead, our guys all just drift along not showing much more than when they came into the league.

What do you think would've happened to Marcus Gilbert if we'd kept our old offensive line coach instead of Munchak? That's basically what's going on with our defensive backs. You can probably chalk half of it up to bad draft picks and bad signings, but not all of it.

I agree. As much as I liked Lake as a player, I just don't think that he's getting the job done as a coach.

[Dwinsgames]

The defensive equivalent of Munchak would take guys with "potential" like Cortez Allen and make them trend neutral or upward. Maybe he's not going to make Blake into a decent player, but out of the half-dozen or so guys we drafted and the similar number we signed, we'd at least have a serviceable pair of starting cornerbacks. Instead, our guys all just drift along not showing much more than when they came into the league.

What do you think would've happened to Marcus Gilbert if we'd kept our old offensive line coach instead of Munchak? That's basically what's going on with our defensive backs. You can probably chalk half of it up to bad draft picks and bad signings, but not all of it.

come to think of it William Gay was not very good at all until he left and returned perhaps the leaving ( getting other coaching in that year ) was the difference ?

[Mojouw]

Recent article indicates CB is the worst ROI in the first round of the draft. Considering Steelers usually pull their CBs from rounds 3-7, I'm not so sure that we can kill them forbit. What is worse - a bunch of Terry Hawthorne's or a bunch of Justin Gilbert's?

For me the real test of their eval skills will be Golson. I still think Q. Rollins would've been a better pick.

[pczach]

Recent article indicates CB is the worst ROI in the first round of the draft. Considering Steelers usually pull their CBs from rounds 3-7, I'm not so sure that we can kill them forbit. What is worse - a bunch of Terry Hawthorne's or a bunch of Justin Gilbert's?

For me the real test of their eval skills will be Golson. I still think Q. Rollins would've been a better pick.

I keep saying it, but cornerback is the hardest position to evaluate outside of quarterback IMO.

Let's hope they can get their hands on a few talented secondary players in a few days.

[Born2Steel]

You would think the actual 'coaching' part would be complete by draft day. For the early rounders at least. The coaches main jobs at this level are to teach schemes. This falls on the player's ability to learn and adapt. Once it is your job, once you are being paid to do that job, it's on you to do the job asked. Some get it straight away and some take longer. That's why you see teams draft from some schools more than others, or even conference preferences. I don't think it's a problem with evaluating talent as much as it is getting guys to fit what we do. We do not require top tier CBs to have a top rated defense. Not here.

[teegre]

They were talking about CBs on one of the football shows (ESPN, NFL Network), and how Asante Samuel could not play with his back to the ball. Belichick knew this, and played to his strengths. ( ) Samuel left, and was a dud elsewhere, because they asked him to play with his back to the ball.

Likewise, Dee Milliner only played on the short side of the field (outside of the hash marks). When he got to the NFL, the hash marks were closer to the middle of the field, Milliner could no longer use the sidelines... and became a dud.

Two thoughts:
1. Not every player fits every system.

2. Sometimes, warts can be masked by good coaching... and, hash marks.

[86WARD]

No kidding...

[Born2Steel]

They were talking about CBs on one of the football shows (ESPN, NFL Network), and how Asante Samuel could not play with his back to the ball. Belichick knew this, and played to his strengths. ( ) Samuel left, and was a dud elsewhere, because they asked him to play with his back to the ball.

Likewise, Dee Milliner only played on the short side of the field (outside of the hash marks). When he got to the NFL, the hash marks were closer to the middle of the field, Milliner could no longer use the sidelines... and became a dud.

Two thoughts:
1. Not every player fits every system.

2. Sometimes, warts can be masked by good coaching... and, hash marks.

Agreed. Trying to coach a player to play better with his back to the ball, or cover better in space, is not how to approach DBs at this level. Get the right guys for the system you run, or change the system to better fit the players. How to play your position is no longer the focus.

[GBMelBlount]

They were talking about CBs on one of the football shows (ESPN, NFL Network), and how Asante Samuel could not play with his back to the ball. Belichick knew this, and played to his strengths. ( ) Samuel left, and was a dud elsewhere, because they asked him to play with his back to the ball.

Likewise, Dee Milliner only played on the short side of the field (outside of the hash marks). When he got to the NFL, the hash marks were closer to the middle of the field, Milliner could no longer use the sidelines... and became a dud.

Two thoughts:
1. Not every player fits every system.

2. Sometimes, warts can be masked by good coaching... and, hash marks.

[hawaiiansteeler]

Alex Kozora ‏@Alex_Kozora

The Steelers have gotten 23 starts out of the last 12 DBs they've drafted. 18 of those were by one guy. #Steelers



https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora/stat...87483092729856

[polamalubeast]

Alex Kozora ‏@Alex_Kozora

The Steelers have gotten 23 starts out of the last 12 DBs they've drafted. 18 of those were by one guy. #Steelers



https://twitter.com/Alex_Kozora/stat...87483092729856

They are all 4th round or later.....

[hawaiiansteeler]

They are all 4th round or later.....

actually, Curtis Brown was a 3rd rounder and Golson a 2nd rounder.

but Alex Kozora's stats are skewed by the fact that he mistakenly left Keenan Lewis off his list...

[polamalubeast]

actually, Curtis Brown was a 3rd rounder and Golson a 2nd rounder.

but Alex Kozora's stats are skewed by the fact that he mistakenly left Keenan Lewis off his list...

True for Brown but in the case of Golson, he has been injured so this is not a problem of evaluation in his case for now.

[Hawkman]

......and,? The point is......draft no one?

[Mojouw]

I really like Alex's stuff. Buy this offers absolutely no context for comparison. Unless I missed it. For instance, how do DB picks outside of the first three rounds work out across the NFL?

Remember when this team could not evaluate o lineman? Then they started picking them before the 6th round.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Count Steeler]

I really like Alex's stuff. Buy this offers absolutely no context for comparison. Unless I missed it. For instance, how do DB picks outside of the first three rounds work out across the NFL?

Remember when this team could not evaluate o lineman? Then they started picking them before the 6th round.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And they hired a coach that knew a thing or 2 about the O Line. Bicknell (?) was a complete flop, Kruger, meh. Munchak is a genius. He turned chicken turd into chicken salad.

[steelreserve]

I really like Alex's stuff. Buy this offers absolutely no context for comparison. Unless I missed it. For instance, how do DB picks outside of the first three rounds work out across the NFL?

My guess is like most other positions, about 1 in 3 becomes an acceptable player who can hold down a role. Probably nothing like this, or else we would see story after story about it.

Remember when this team could not evaluate o lineman? Then they started picking them before the 6th round.

Yeah, and the line still sucked until Munchak came in. Then suddenly seventh-rounders and UDFAs started turning into solid players.

That's what a good position coach does. The star players are going to be the star players anyway, but he takes the average players and makes them good, and the struggling ones capable of at least getting by.

[tube517]

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2016/09...fensive-backs/