Eh, I don't really see this developing into much. McCullers might be good against the run, but at this point it looks like that's all he's going to be good at. So his ceiling is Steve McLendon, and his role will continue to be that of a situational player.
What's needed is a DT who can not only defend the run but create chaos in the pocket, and McCullers just does not look like that kind of guy. Hence, a 40%-of-the-time player at best.
When they say McLendon was our "most important" free agent loss, I wholeheartedly agree. Except I think it was important because it was a GOOD thing - instead of settling in for another season of one-dimensional mediocrity because the guy was the incumbent, it forces us to get off our asses and actually look for a real DT who can do the things we need, and who knows maybe we'll get one for the first time in 5 or 6 years. Kind of like when Willie Parker was on his way out and after we realized that just any old bum wasn't going to be an improvement, we ended up with a REAL running back or two.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Array title="Rotorhead has a reputation beyond repute">
Wait a minute, aren't you the one saying what we need is a big fat guy in the middle to take up 2 blockers? I mean, McCullers may not be fat, but he is a mountain of a man and can easily take up 2 blockers, hell we have seen him occasionally destroy OL's. So why is he not what we are looking for again?
I hope it will not be a disaster.The Steelers were very good against the run when McLendon was on the field.
If McCullers is terrible, we are in trouble because the last thing we need is to be terrible against the run.
Array title="cold-hard-steel has a brilliant future">
Our defense has changed over . Not one of you punk ass bitches can even begin to tell me where we are headed for . Maybe we all need to take a step back and just breathe.
Two bags are guarenteed to fit all sizes ,or your money back. If you are not completely satisfied call 1-800-GOO-DHELL We show 5 bags to choose from,most problems only need 2 bags
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Originally Posted by Rotorhead
Yes I am, but it still matters what kind of fat guy. You've got your "anchor" type DTs, who are big fat guys who can fight you at the line and win, and sometimes take up two blockers while doing so. Or you've got your "bull" type DTs like Hampton, who are fighting two blockers in the backfield and forcing the QB to move out of his comfort zone, which makes a huge difference in the outcome of the play.
McCullers seems like more of the anchor type for sure. Now, if he can take up two blockers consistently, that's still an improvement over McLendon, who would basically fight one guy to a standoff or easily be blocked out of the play by two. But if that's all happening in front of the QB, it's only part of the job.
Someone like Hampton, on the other hand (or other dominant NTs), is a completely different level of disruptiveness. They take the battle out of the trenches and push it into the backfield. They're usually too slow to sack the QB themselves, but they can singlehandedly collapse the pocket, rattle the passer, chase the QB into the arms of other defenders, make him panic and throw off his back foot, all kinds of things that swing the play way in your favor.
Now, of course the obvious retort is that Casey Hampton was Casey Hampton, and you can't count on finding many players like that. And the answer is: Of course you can't; it's nearly asking the impossible. There are a handful of people on the entire planet who can have their way with two 300-pound NFL linemen and still generate pressure at the same time. But if you run our defense, too bad - you still need one.
THAT is the mistake that people make about running our 3-4 defense. You do not just need "a" nose tackle. You need a dominant one. When you have a regular nose tackle in a 3-4, he's of limited use, a smart coach will get him off the field in the situations when he can't help - and that's when you end up with know-it-alls squawking about how the game has changed and it's a passing league; and our defense is actually a 4-3 or a 2-4-5 because we've "evolved," not because we're shifting formations to cover up a weak spot; and the nose tackle is a dinosaur who doesn't play enough snaps to use a high draft pick on - just pick up any old fat guy in the middle rounds and it will do, except that it actually doesn't. But people are trained to think that way after five years of low-impact play at the position. Well, if you watched Redman and Dwyer bash away stupidly for that long with no other thought given to it, you could be forgiven for thinking RB was a throwaway position too, and just get a warm body. But then watch what happens when you get an impact player. He makes an impact.
See you Space Cowboy ...
What 3-4 teams currently run out one of this unicorn like dominant NT's? The Jets had Wilkerson and they traded him. Maybe Poe in KC? Maybe the rookie in Baltimore? That is about it. So like 3. How many teams are running a base 3-4?
I get that Hampton is >>>>>>>> than anyone else the Steelers have ever had at NT. But that has to be tempered with realistic expectations. I also don't think that Casey was quite as disruptive as you remember. He spent a TON of time on the sidelines and he also spent a ton of time just holding his ground - a valuable role but not the disruptive force we are being asked to envision.
Again, I think it is a fascinating debate. I argue the Steelers problem at pressuring the passer is not the lack of a disruptive force in the middle, but OLB who can consistently beat quality OT one on one. You feel differently. Who knows who is right? I certainly don't. Long story short, if the Steelers draft a ludicrous talented 300+ pound man next month, I will be totally happy. It can only help. Just not sure it is the total panacea that some feel it is.
[QUOTE=[B]
I get that Hampton is >>>>>>>> than anyone else the Steelers have ever had at NT.
[/B]Casey was great no doubt. But he had the Luxury of playing along side some other great players that made his life a lot easier. I might, not for sure, but might argue given everything and who he had to play with...not that he played with bad players that former NT " Joel Steed " was also very very good. And was vastly overlooked by a lot of the league. He should have easily made 6 to 7 Pro Bowl games. Steed was a stud for sure.
Array title="Rotorhead has a reputation beyond repute">
Well McCullers certainly has the size and strength to be a dominant disruptive NT. Like I stated above, there were times last season when he absolutely dominated the OL, but those were few and far between (as was his snap count). I guess we can hope he can put it all together this season and also hope we can draft 2 DL's to rotate without a whole lot of drop off in talent (if there ever was a year for it, it is this year). I would still be happy if our DL stayed the same as last season and our DB's improved. Barring any off injuries, that would be enough to get #7 (hell, we could have gotten #7 this year with just half the injuries!)
McCullers biggest issue is his biggest blessing of sorts when it comes to being an NFL player ...
that blessing and curse are one in the same ... his SIZE
he has the " size you want " but he lacks the size you want ....
the height portion of his size are as much of a detriment to his play as his weight is a positive ... at 6'7+ it is very difficult to be the "low man" and line play is as much a leverage game as anything else and low man usually wins , now those guys are almost always the low man vs big Dan and they do not often win the battle with Dan , BUT sometimes a stalemate is as good as a win for the offense ...
Like was said above you not only have to be able to take on two men and hold them off ( Dan does this well because of his size and power ) however he normally does not get penetration while doing so ( a detriment to his game ) collapsing the pocket is what separates the run of the mill NT from the very good to great NTs and Dans height and ability to be the low man is the cause of this ..
strong enough and big enough to keep 2 men at bay and not lose ground , but lack of leverage keeps him from driving those men backwards most times ...
that would not be an issue with Billings ( he's a bulldog ) strong powerful and mobile enough to make his way into a backfield to disrupt
This is what is, and I believe will likely always be, holding McCullers back from being a great NT. He can be a rock, but not a bull. The immovable object but not the irresistable force.
In all seriousness, those characteristics and his physical traits would make him an ideal offensive tackle, but for some reason he ended up on the other side of the ball. On defense it roughly translates to Gilbert Brown from the 1990s Packers. Still a force to be reckoned with in the right scheme or situation, but not a big pressure generator or breaker-down of protection. Ours is not that kind of scheme, and the situations are not all that often.
Billings is practically born to be a nose tackle. About 6 feet and built like a bowling ball. It's no coincidence that Hampton and a lot of other great NTs are of similar build. Of course, that alone doesn't guarantee you'll be successful, but it's a lot harder to get the push up the middle into the backfield if you're 6'5" or 6'6".
See you Space Cowboy ...
Array title="ALLD has a reputation beyond repute">
Put McCullers on STs to defend FGs.
All Defense!
what....thats not an accurate description at all. McCullers gets outleveraged from snap from snap somewhat frequently because of his pad level. You're describing Casey Hampton, which is ironic because you seem deadset on wanting a NT thats very capable of being pass disruptive, which even Hampton didnt do much of at all
eh? That's exactly what I'm talking about with McCullers. His size and strength can demand two people to deal with (at least a decent amount of the time), but because he loses the leverage battle, that struggle takes place largely AT the line of scrimmage and he's less disruptive. Which is what I meant by "rock." The rock can hold its ground but doesn't really push YOU around.
As for Hampton, maybe I just remember it a hell of a lot differently than you, but he was plenty disruptive to the pass until circa 2008-09. No, not by being the guy getting directly in the quarterback's face, but by bringing the Popeye-fighting-Bluto cloud of dust with arms and fists popping out of it into the backfield. You don't have to be right near the QB, but if that's going on two yards behind the line of scrimmage, it definitely starts to fuck up the play. That's the last time we had anyone who could do that consistently.
See you Space Cowboy ...
Array title="Shoes has a reputation beyond repute">
I think the biggest issue with Big Dan is the lack of fire. He's been drinking from the fountain of Mike Adams.
Looking at his Girth, I'd say Daniel has been drinking from the fountain of " Willy Wonka "
im pretty sure what youre describing still constitutes a QB pressure in most archives, and no nose tackle really racks up a significant amount of QB pressures. i think this is all overplayed. as long as McCullers can stonewall the line of scrimmage and stack and shed well, he can still be pretty good. ill give him the benefit of the doubt last season because of all his injuries.
lets not forget how good he looked his rookie season, especially against the Ravens in the playoff game. that was his best game
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I'm always amazed how fans are so sure that a young player will never develop anymore or improve over the next few years even though they haven't gotten a ton of playing time to see what they can do.
Clearly, McCullers has work to do to improve his game and his stamina during games. I don't think we've seen everything he's capable of yet. I don't know if he will be the starter, or if they draft a first round NT or sign a veteran NT to take over while the young guys learn. The one thing I don know is that nobody here really knows how good he can be until we see him get extended playing time.
Array title="katmandu has much to be proud of">
Because he is just like Michael Adams. They are TOO DAMN SOFT !
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Array title="katmandu has much to be proud of">
Exactly.
The Coaches need to piss in their Wheaties to wake them the hell up and play PISSED OFF !
I've said before, could you imagine these (2) guys with Hines Ward's Warrior spirit and Willie Colon's motor ??
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I don't know what to say to that, except unless I remember everything about Hampton's career completely wrong, he did a lot more than stand two guys up at the line of scrimmage and stop the run, and he played in a lot more than obvious run situations.
McCullers can still be very good at THAT, but if that's all, then it's only a situational help to us, and it's exactly what people talk about when they say the nose tackle is going out of fashion. Hampton played almost his entire career during the huge-boner-for-passing era and still managed to be one of the most effective nose tackles of all time. I apologize if I'm not putting my finger on the exact cause precisely, but there is a huge difference in impact level, and whatever it was, that's what we need from a DT in order to complete the front of the defense.
See you Space Cowboy ...
I agree. I like McCullers, but he reminds me a lot of Ex-Raven " Terrence Cody " A guy who can definitely plug the line. But, if the opposing team hurried on offense, and Cody could not be taken out of the next play, he was a major hinderance for them. That is why Baltimore moved on without him. That is also why I like Andrew Billings so much cause he can be a every down DT.
Array title="Devilsdancefloor has a reputation beyond repute">
he will maybe be on the field 2 downs eh I think he will be good enough.
For those i love i will sacrifice.
Si ventus non est, remiga
The wrap on Big Mac has always been that his first move at the snap is UP! That's not good when you're 6'7"! He's got to learn to use that size to create leverage by firing out low and under control. Otherwise he's a glorified blocking sled figure.
Array title="katmandu has much to be proud of">
Casey was built like a Grizzly Bear.
Really short, thick powerful legs and an extremely low center of gravity. That;s what made him unique.
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Height doesn't make a difference when it comes to gaining leverage and being able to push back the O-line or drawing a Double team. There have been NT who were 6ft, 8 350 + pounds who were Hall of famers and better then Hampton.
Array title="Born2Steel has a reputation beyond repute">
Classically, NTs can't be too tall or they lose leverage on offensive linemen, so they tend to be around 6'1" or so, and usually they're huge: 300 lbs. or much more. I don't know much about their "football intelligence" or Wonderlic scores, but they do have a role in understanding opposing offenses' tendencies and blocking schemes and responding to them. They also tend to need lots to technique, both hand work and footwork, to occupy those double teams and occasionally get off of them and stuff runs.
From an article on hall of fame NTs
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I'm not ready to give up on "Big Dan" just yet. NT may not be his best spot on the DL. Maybe if we get a Reed or Billings, we can run more 4 man fronts and he can go outside some. He definitely needs to get meaner for sure.
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